1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 1:14 PM EST

    27 days and counting before the 28M bonus. Do the Colts pull the trigger or cut and run?  I say thet cut and run. Try to trade him but there are no takers and they free Willie.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 2:13 PM EST

    Option #3.  They negotiate a deal that works for both of them.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 2:24 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    Option #3.  They negotiate a deal that works for both of them.
    Posted by UD6


    Just out a curiosity what is the going rate for a "noodle arm" QB?

    Yeah, and before you say Kravitz retracted the statement, he said it with conviction to start with and he is not the only person reporting that manning has limited arm strength.


    A few important quotes, transcribed by Ryan Wilson of CBS' Eye on Football are as follows. The full interview can be found here. On Manning's arm strength, as it stands right now:

    "I mean, the guy's arm is a noodle, he can't throw like an NFL quarterback, and by March 8, there's no way of knowing whether he's going to be ready or not."

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 2:59 PM EST

    Stirring the pot, eh JRI? 

    So as long as a writer says something with conviction that means its true in your book?  So, I guess you are taking Eric Wilbur's article on Brady as gospel then, because I am not sure one can show much more conviction with words than he did, right?  And he didn't retract his words.  

    as for Manning's arm, I believe I am correct that Kravitz was simply reporting what he had heard, and that he has not actually seen Manning throw. On the other hand, Bill Polian watched Manning throw over a month ago and these were his words this week on Sirius/XM:  
      
            "It’s marked [improvement] from where he was back in September," Polian said regarding Peyton’s arm strength in December, when Polian last observed Manning. "He threw it accurately, he threw it with a good, tight spiral, and he threw it with velocity. Generally, he looked like a pretty confident quarterback out there."

    http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/2/9/2788336/bill-polian-peyton-will-return-at-a-high-level-adam-vinatieri-says

    So, I guess there are contrary reports out there.  One is first hand and the other is not. 

    Now I am not naive enough to take either one of these comments as gospel like you.  They both have biased reasons for saying what they have said, but if I've got to believe one over the other, I'll take the one with first hand knowledge. 

    That isn't to say that Manning's arm is ready at this time, but then again it doesn't have to be.  He's got at least another 4-5 months before he needs to be ready to play which is why I think, if he is willing, he and the colts will figure out an arrangement that will allow him to stay with the colts.  

    I am speculating, of course, but so is everyone else. 
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 3:19 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    Stirring the pot, eh JRI?  So as long as a writer says something with conviction that means its true in your book?  So, I guess you are taking Eric Wilbur's article on Brady as gospel then, because I am not sure one can show much more conviction with words than he did, right?  And he didn't retract his words.   as for Manning's arm, I believe I am correct that Kravitz was simply reporting what he had heard, and that he has not actually seen Manning throw. On the other hand, Bill Polian watched Manning throw over a month ago and these were his words this week on Sirius/XM:              "It’s marked [improvement] from where he was back in September," Polian said regarding Peyton’s arm strength in December, when Polian last observed Manning. "He threw it accurately, he threw it with a good, tight spiral, and he threw it with velocity. Generally, he looked like a pretty confident quarterback out there." http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/2/9/2788336/bill-polian-peyton-will-return-at-a-high-level-adam-vinatieri-says So, I guess there are contrary reports out there.  One is first hand and the other is not.  Now I am not naive enough to take either one of these comments as gospel like you.  They both have biased reasons for saying what they have said, but if I've got to believe one over the other, I'll take the one with first hand knowledge.  That isn't to say that Manning's arm is ready at this time, but then again it doesn't have to be.  He's got at least another 4-5 months before he needs to be ready to play which is why I think, if he is willing, he and the colts will figure out an arrangement that will allow him to stay with the colts.   I am speculating, of course, but so is everyone else. 
    Posted by UD6


    eric wilbur is entitled to his opinion as you are.

    I am just going by what i read. There has been info coming from unnamed sources in the Manning circle that he has plateaued and has not progressed to where an average NFL QB needs to have his arm strength.

    So the question remains... what does a "noodle arm" QB get on the open market?
     

    Report: Indianapolis Colts QB Peyton Manning may never play again ...


    Report: Those close to Manning fear his career is over | National ...

    Peyton ManningNot Throwing Like an NFL Quarterback …


     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 3:28 PM EST

    " eric wilbur is entitled to his opinion as you are."

    True, but Wilbur shouldn't have a job writing for Boston.com when there are much better writers in this forum than him. Not surprised  to learn that UD6 is a close follower of Wilbur's shoddy work.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 3:38 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    " eric wilbur is entitled to his opinion as you are." True, but Wilbur shouldn't have a job writing for Boston.com when there are much better writers in this forum than him. Not surprised  to learn that UD6 is a close follower of Wilbur's shoddy work.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker


    Agreed  boston.com could do much better than Wilbur. Perhaps his employer has realized this after the hatchet job he did on Brady.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:00 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    Stirring the pot, eh JRI?  So as long as a writer says something with conviction that means its true in your book?  So, I guess you are taking Eric Wilbur's article on Brady as gospel then, because I am not sure one can show much more conviction with words than he did, right?  And he didn't retract his words.   as for Manning's arm, I believe I am correct that Kravitz was simply reporting what he had heard, and that he has not actually seen Manning throw. On the other hand, Bill Polian watched Manning throw over a month ago and these were his words this week on Sirius/XM:              "It’s marked [improvement] from where he was back in September," Polian said regarding Peyton’s arm strength in December, when Polian last observed Manning. "He threw it accurately, he threw it with a good, tight spiral, and he threw it with velocity. Generally, he looked like a pretty confident quarterback out there." http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/2/9/2788336/bill-polian-peyton-will-return-at-a-high-level-adam-vinatieri-says So, I guess there are contrary reports out there.  One is first hand and the other is not.  Now I am not naive enough to take either one of these comments as gospel like you.  They both have biased reasons for saying what they have said, but if I've got to believe one over the other, I'll take the one with first hand knowledge.  That isn't to say that Manning's arm is ready at this time, but then again it doesn't have to be.  He's got at least another 4-5 months before he needs to be ready to play which is why I think, if he is willing, he and the colts will figure out an arrangement that will allow him to stay with the colts.   I am speculating, of course, but so is everyone else. 
    Posted by UD6

    Don't think he would enjoy of even the thought of that happening to TB. Karma is a biotch.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:00 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : eric wilbur is entitled to his opinion as you are. I am just going by what i read. There has been info coming from unnamed sources in the Manning circle that he has plateaued and has not progressed to where an average NFL QB needs to have his arm strength. So the question remains... what does a "noodle arm" QB get on the open market?   Report : Indianapolis Colts QB Peyton Manning may never play again ... Report : Those close to Manning fear his career is over | National ... Peyton Manning Not Throwing Like an NFL Quarterback …
    Posted by jri37

    I am well aware of what I or anyone else is entitled to.  I am just trying to validate your position that you believe anything and/or everything a writer says or writes with conviction.  Is this your position?  

    I do know that there are a number of conflicting reports regarding Manning's arm strength as it relates to his nerve regeneration.  I am willing to believe that there is some truth to the fact that he is not back to full strength.  If he was, I'd imagine someone would have put a camera on his throws for the public to see, because his arm at full strength is worth about 28 million to him come March 8.  

    As for Manning having a "noodle arm", I am not sure I buy that.  I assume (maybe I shouldn't) that you know that professional writers, especially columnists, have a way with words - otherwise they wouldn't be writers, right?  But to answer your question directly, I am not sure a QB with a "noodle arm" is worth much to anyone, but what do I know?  Kravitz's retracted words, don't seem to be stopping other teams and their fans from expressing interest.  In fact, I am told there is currently a billboard somewhere around Indy from fans in Tennessee urging Manning to come back there.  So, if in fact, Manning does have a noodle arm, you might want to inquire with the Titans, Dolphins, Seahawks, Cardinals, and probably a few others I've neglected to mention about his worth, or you can tweet Irsay and ask him.  

    Looking forward to your answer.




     
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:09 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    " eric wilbur is entitled to his opinion as you are." True, but Wilbur shouldn't have a job writing for Boston.com when there are much better writers in this forum than him. Not surprised  to learn that UD6 is a close follower of Wilbur's shoddy work.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker


    Not a follower of Wilburs.  Not even a fan.  In fact, his recent comments on Brady are likely the first I've read from him.  I am simply trying to solidify JRI's position regarding writers who talk or write with conviction.  Because of his follow up response (or rather non-response), I am thinking that maybe JRI was just trying incite as opposed to actually believing his own words. 
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:11 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : Agreed  boston.com could do much better than Wilbur. Perhaps his employer has realized this after the hatchet job he did on Brady.
    Posted by jri37

    Jri - so can I assume from your comments here that you don't actually believe everything you read or hear from writers who write or speak with conviction? 

    If that's the case, then how come Kravitz's retracted words carry much more weight with you than Wilburs non-retracted words? 
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:17 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : I am well aware of what I or anyone else is entitled to.  I am just trying to validate your position that you believe anything and/or everything a writer says or writes with conviction.  Is this your position?   I do know that there are a number of conflicting reports regarding Manning's arm strength as it relates to his nerve regeneration.  I am willing to believe that there is some truth to the fact that he is not back to full strength.  If he was, I'd imagine someone would have put a camera on his throws for the public to see, because his arm at full strength is worth about 28 million to him come March 8.   As for Manning having a "noodle arm", I am not sure I buy that.  I assume (maybe I shouldn't) that you know that professional writers, especially columnists, have a way with words - otherwise they wouldn't be writers, right?  But to answer your question directly, I am not sure a QB with a "noodle arm" is worth much to anyone, but what do I know?  Kravitz's retracted words, don't seem to be stopping other teams and their fans from expressing interest.  In fact, I am told there is currently a billboard somewhere around Indy from fans in Tennessee urging Manning to come back there.  So, if in fact, Manning does have a noodle arm, you might want to inquire with the Titans, Dolphins, Seahawks, Cardinals, and probably a few others I've neglected to mention about his worth, or you can tweet Irsay and ask him.   Looking forward to your answer.  
    Posted by UD6


    My position is not relevant. what is relevant is what are the Colts going to offer Manning to redo his contract as you stated they would do in your original post. i was having a little fun with you by asking what the going rate was for a "noodle arm' qb. It was your supposition that they would renegotiate to buy time so I am wondering what the Colts would offer and what Manning would take. 
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:23 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : Don't think he would enjoy of even the thought of that happening to TB. Karma is a biotch.
    Posted by GEAUX-TIGRES


    Where do i even mention TB in any post? You Colt fans are awfully sensitive. Which begs the questions as to why you would want to post on this site? I am not saying you do not have the right to post here but any time you perceive a slight to Manning without mentioning Brady it automatically triggers a Brady retort so that you can somehow give  Peyton credibility. Why is that? 
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:31 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : Jri - so can I assume from your comments here that you don't actually believe everything you read or hear from writers who write or speak with conviction?  If that's the case, then how come Kravitz's retracted words carry much more weight with you than Wilburs non-retracted words? 
    Posted by UD6


    In Kravitz case you can only take him for his word. He claimed that he had sources that told him Manning did not possess the arm strength and had plateaued. He used "noodle arm to illustrate his point and regretted the words he used to describe the situation.

    In wilburs case the piece was full of venom and suppositions which he has every right to state his opinion. eventually the consumer will decide his ultimate fate.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 4:55 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : My position is not relevant. what is relevant is what are the Colts going to offer Manning to redo his contract as you stated they would do in your original post. i was having a little fun with you by asking what the going rate was for a "noodle arm' qb. It was your supposition that they would renegotiate to buy time so I am wondering what the Colts would offer and what Manning would take. 
    Posted by jri37


    Of course your position is relevant.  You made it so, by indicating you believe Kravitz due to the conviction of comments and expressly regardless of the fact that he retracted them.  Without your position, you likely wouldn't have posted the question.  My follow ups were an attempt to understand you a little better. 
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 5:10 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : In Kravitz case you can only take him for his word. He claimed that he had sources that told him Manning did not possess the arm strength and had plateaued. He used "noodle arm to illustrate his point and regretted the words he used to describe the situation. In wilburs case the piece was full of venom and suppositions which he has every right to state his opinion. eventually the consumer will decide his ultimate fate.
    Posted by jri37

    But you took Kravitz at his original words based on your assumption of his conviction even AFTER he retracted the statement and specifically noted as such.  So you take him at some of his words but not others.  Got it.  And does it matter whether the writer's words of conviction include venom or not?  Heck, I would think if conviction was the thing that tipped your belief scale then Wilbur's would have to be gospel to you. 

    Or maybe you could just stop trying to be cute and back yourself into a corner. 

    Regarding the "plateauing", have you played sports JRI, lifted weights, run for time, etc?  Frequently athletes as a part of their growth process hit limits before eventually breaking through and moving on to the next level.  It is just as possible that if the plateauing thing is true that Manning would break through that barrier as it is that he wouldn't.  Nerves are a tricky thing, but I know after multple knee surgeries that the nerve damage that was caused as a part of the surgery has generally, although not completely resolved itself.  This is the expectation with Manning.  The question, ultimately, is how long will it take, and no one, not even Manning, owns the crystal ball with that answers. 
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/10/2012 5:50 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : But you took Kravitz at his original words based on your assumption of his conviction even AFTER he retracted the statement and specifically noted as such.  So you take him at some of his words but not others.  Got it.  And does it matter whether the writer's words of conviction include venom or not?  Heck, I would think if conviction was the thing that tipped your belief scale then Wilbur's would have to be gospel to you.  Or maybe you could just stop trying to be cute and back yourself into a corner.  Regarding the "plateauing", have you played sports JRI, lifted weights, run for time, etc?  Frequently athletes as a part of their growth process hit limits before eventually breaking through and moving on to the next level.  It is just as possible that if the plateauing thing is true that Manning would break through that barrier as it is that he wouldn't.  Nerves are a tricky thing, but I know after multple knee surgeries that the nerve damage that was caused as a part of the surgery has generally, although not completely resolved itself.  This is the expectation with Manning.  The question, ultimately, is how long will it take, and no one, not even Manning, owns the crystal ball with that answers. 
    Posted by UD6

    Yes, I have played a sport in college. Again that is not relevant. I still take Kravitz at his word minus the way he chose to illustrate his point, i know it was hyperbole. As far as Wilbur went his was an opinion piece which is not relevant to this discussion. You can try as you like to avoid the question but I will keep asking.

    I ask the question once again about your third option. What does Indy offer Peyton and what does Petyton take to delay this decision as you suggested both sides would 

     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 8:45 AM EST

    I see - so you are well aware of the concept of plateauing.  

    Lets review:
     * you accept that Kravitz retracted his statement but still believe him.  Maybe his position simply fits your desired outcome.  
    * you believe writers words based on conviction unless you don't.  Maybe you only believe writers whose words fit your desired outcome.  
    * you believe second hand information more than first hand information.  
    * you believe unnamed sources more than you believe named sources.  

    I can only conclude that you were intentionally trying to stir the pot.  Noted.  

    I don't know what the colts will offer Manning.  My hope and belief is that they will figure something out. 
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbear3915. Show mbear3915's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 9:25 AM EST

    Seems like Peyton really took advantage of the Colts by signing a huge deal and then immediately having surgery that would limit (and in fact end) his season.

    If he had any class, Peyton would be offering to make the bonus contingent on his health or agree to move the decision date. Of course the business argument is: both sides agreed to the deal and signed it - now live with it. Peyton already won - he was paid $20 million for nothing .. with the chance for $48 million. At least he likes football and plays hard - unlike Albert.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MarcW1. Show MarcW1's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 9:25 AM EST

    Even if healthy why would Manning want to come back to the Colts? If he wants to chase SB's, it's obvious he needs to find a contender. Colts are probably 2-3 years from being competitive with the top NFL teams.

    The only truth is this whole Peyton saga is that the sportswriters and talking heads have been wrong more than they've been right. Until Peyton runs drills and demonstrates his capabilities all speculation means squat.

    Peyton also has a history of taking 2-3 years to get on the Same Page with his receivers and tight ends. He'll have a small window of time to form relationships with his new team. It's going to be an interesting spring/summer.    
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 9:32 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    I see - so you are well aware of the concept of plateauing.   Lets review:  * you accept that Kravitz retracted his statement but still believe him.  Maybe his position simply fits your desired outcome.   * you believe writers words based on conviction unless you don't.  Maybe you only believe writers whose words fit your desired outcome.   * you believe second hand information more than first hand information.   * you believe unnamed sources more than you believe named sources.   I can only conclude that you were intentionally trying to stir the pot.  Noted.   I don't know what the colts will offer Manning.  My hope and belief is that they will figure something out. 
    Posted by UD6

    *He retracted his use of the illustration of "noodle arm". He didn't retract his assessment of the situation.

    *my desired outcome is not relevant. What is relevant is the answer to your desired third outcome from the 2nd post in this thread.

    * I can only take Kravitz word based on his first hand account and sources he cites.

    *Stir the pot no. Had a little fun with Kravits words "noodle arm" sorry you are so sensitive. 

    *My post was in response to your post Quote "They negotiate a deal that works for both of them".

    *You finally answer after avoiding the question for 5 posts that you don't know.

    *Well at least you are being honest about one thing... you have no clue.





     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 1:24 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    I see - so you are well aware of the concept of plateauing.   Lets review:  * you accept that Kravitz retracted his statement but still believe him.  Maybe his position simply fits your desired outcome.   * you believe writers words based on conviction unless you don't.  Maybe you only believe writers whose words fit your desired outcome.   * you believe second hand information more than first hand information.   * you believe unnamed sources more than you believe named sources.   I can only conclude that you were intentionally trying to stir the pot.  Noted.   I don't know what the colts will offer Manning.  My hope and belief is that they will figure something out. 
    Posted by UD6

    Boy, you sure are building up a straw mountain to deflect this topic from Manning's noodle arm.

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 7:16 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : You have officially been designated "bullshtter" staus.   1.  defending Kravitz's comments after his retraction 2.  attempting to convince the board that you really wanted an answer from me rather than using a question as a way to give me sht.  3.  How come you can't take the word of those with with unretracted first hand accounts as opposed retracted second hand accounts.  Doesn't make much sense does it, unless your position comes with an agenda.   4.  stirring the pot - you?  nah.  Right?  LOL!! 5.  Actually I answered your question directly in my second post after your first.  Clearly you are not paying attention.   6.  Being honest is easy, especially as it regards what I know or could even assume what it will take for Manning to stay with the colts and the colts to keep Manning.  Honesty, however, cannot be considered your strongest suit.  In fact, you appear to be lacking it completely.  
    Posted by UD6

    And the straw man army continues to grow.

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from df5. Show df5's posts

    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 11:38 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    Option #3.  They negotiate a deal that works for both of them.
    Posted by UD6


    Is it even possible for you not comment on a Manning thread? 3800 posts in someone else's forum. Get a life.
     

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    Re: Manning bonus count down.

    posted at 2/11/2012 11:40 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down.:
    In Response to Re: Manning bonus count down. : You have officially been designated "bullshtter" staus.   1.  defending Kravitz's comments after his retraction 2.  attempting to convince the board that you really wanted an answer from me rather than using a question as a way to give me sht.  3.  How come you can't take the word of those with with unretracted first hand accounts as opposed retracted second hand accounts.  Doesn't make much sense does it, unless your position comes with an agenda.   4.  stirring the pot - you?  nah.  Right?  LOL!! 5.  Actually I answered your question directly in my second post after your first.  Clearly you are not paying attention.   6.  Being honest is easy, especially as it regards what I know or could even assume what it will take for Manning to stay with the colts and the colts to keep Manning.  Honesty, however, cannot be considered your strongest suit.  In fact, you appear to be lacking it completely.  
    Posted by UD6


    Blah blah blah blah........ blah.

    Blah.