Manning vs Brady

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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    UD6 like all colts fans are a very funny bunch.  They like to talk about Records-Mannings records, but the moment you throw our brady's records including superbowls........."oh no, brady's records are team record, but Mannings records are his personal records. Are you guys insane? Which record in footbal is not team related? Does manning throw to himself? Does he play on the offensive line. Does he tackle anyone or anything? Neither QB does. It is reasonale to claim that under stressful game conditions, the QB that mostly comes through is the better QB. And its Tom. Very simple. If records were switched and manning and his teams were to have brady and his teams' records and vice versa, will you bunch still say brady is better? I bet not.
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    i dont know about you guys but i kind of feel like Superman if he found out that lex was retired.
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : ... Did that ever happen to Brady?  Did Brady's coach ever call timeout with a 2 point lead and the opposition driving with less than a minute to go giving the opposition the ability to hold on to their last timeout and enough time to figure out a play that might put them in FG range?  ... Sure Brady's got the rings, but he would have floundered in Indy.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    And how again were you able to prove Brady would've faltered given these situations you mentioned? 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    It just shows how inept that organization is.  Imagine what Babe would say about our Coach, Owner and Management if our team collapsed with the loss of a signal player? 

     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]                                           Brady         Manning    Playoff Record:                       14-3                  7-8         tm record Playoff TD-INT:                      26-12               22-17        incorrect Playoff Passer Rating:              93.4                 84.6         incorrect Super Bowl Record:                 3-1                  1-0           tm record  Super Bowl TD-INT:                7-1                  1-1          incorrect Super Bowl Passer Rating:        99.88              81.80       incorrect Super Bowl MVP’s:                    2                     1 OK Colts fans argue this. Brady's playoff passer rtg is 85.7.  Manning's 88.4.  Playoff TD-INT Brady 30-16, Manning 29-19.  The SB passer rating is incorrect b/c you are using only one of Manning's SB's.  Manning 4x MVP,  Brady 2x MVP Manning 5x 1st team All Pro 3x 2nd team All Pro, Brady 2x 1st team All Pro, 1x 2nd team All Pro NFL Network all-time best players - Manning ranked higher than Brady.  ESPN's QBR rating - Manning highest of past 3 years.  Brady's great - One of the best, and the best game manager.  Manning's never had the luxury of being just that.  He's had to overcome his team's failures in the running game, on defense, special teams, and coaching.  Brady had legendary defenses, clutch kickers, and a better overall running game.  In the last 2 years when Brady had to carry the team, he was one and done. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    I'd agree with this to an extent..I would never say that Manning is some choke artist QB that teams have lost in the playoffs "because" of him. The guy is a brilliant QB that will go down as one of the all time greats. The thing I don't agree with is, you make it seem like Manning has played with retread talent and Brady has had all world players around him. I think the opposite is true. Manning has played with..Marshall Faulk, Edgeran James, Dallas Clark, Marvin Harrison, Tarik Glen, Reggie Wayne. Hell there was a time when you couldn't touch this guy, they pass blocked so well for him. 

    Brady has made most of the players around him better. The only sure fire, pure out of this world, top notch guy he threw to was Moss. Branch never did a thing without Brady. Neither did Givens. Were they chopped liver? No, but they weren't on the same level as the guys Manning had. He never had a back that had the career that James had. Christ! James at one point could do everything! Run inside, out, catch, block, score...just phenomenal. 
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]                                           Brady         Manning    Playoff Record:                       14-3                  7-8         tm record Playoff TD-INT:                      26-12               22-17        incorrect Playoff Passer Rating:              93.4                 84.6         incorrect Super Bowl Record:                 3-1                  1-0           tm record  Super Bowl TD-INT:                7-1                  1-1          incorrect Super Bowl Passer Rating:        99.88              81.80       incorrect Super Bowl MVP’s:                    2                     1 OK Colts fans argue this. Brady's playoff passer rtg is 85.7.  Manning's 88.4.  Playoff TD-INT Brady 30-16, Manning 29-19.  The SB passer rating is incorrect b/c you are using only one of Manning's SB's.  Manning 4x MVP,  Brady 2x MVP Manning 5x 1st team All Pro 3x 2nd team All Pro, Brady 2x 1st team All Pro, 1x 2nd team All Pro NFL Network all-time best players - Manning ranked higher than Brady.  ESPN's QBR rating - Manning highest of past 3 years.  Brady's great - One of the best, and the best game manager.  Manning's never had the luxury of being just that.  He's had to overcome his team's failures in the running game, on defense, special teams, and coaching.  Brady had legendary defenses, clutch kickers, and a better overall running game.  In the last 2 years when Brady had to carry the team, he was one and done. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    You ignore all the advantages Mannig has had.  For one thing, Manning has played his whole career in a dome and in a warm weather division while Brady is playing in 20 below weather in Buffalo in December.  Manning has had the luxury of continuity that Brady has not had.  While Brady has worked with at least three different offensive coordinators, Manning has had the same one until this year.  He's also had a lot of continuity with receivers.  Harrison, Wayne, and Clark played for the Colts for years while Brady has had to adjust to a different set of receivers practically every year.  Put Brady in a dome with the same offensive coordinator for his entire career and the same quality receivers year after year and Brady never loses a game. 

    That said, I recognize Manning's greatness and am sorry to see him sidelined for perhaps the rest of the season.  Any football fan has to appreciate the great rivalry that has developed between Brady and the Patriots and Manning and the Colts.  It won't be the same if he can't play in this year's installment.    
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]Hes been the best of the last decade and maybe ever 44.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    The best at choking. He choked so bad now he needs surgery again.
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]I think you are kidding yourself. Manning carried that team last season and with out him I dont see you winning a game. Like if he comes back in week 5 I think your record will be 0-4. If he goes on IR right now though and the team knows he wont be back I think they could win maybe 4 games this season. MAYBE.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Yeah like in the playoffs when the Colts lost 17-16 - the Colts defense did their job.  Choker did his too Laughing
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    So what if this was pouting's last hurrah. Who will be TB's new QB nemesis?
     
    I can't see another version of the Manning Vs. Brady thing ever happening for a long time.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : Do I have to talk about playing indoors vs playing outside for the playoff games? You think that has anything to do with the QB ratings, OR should I give you those numbers AGAIN?
    Posted by gln826[/QUOTE]
    I'm just responding to the questions.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rainbowroosie. Show rainbowroosie's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    Manning is a great QB, nearly as good as Brady. BOTH are first ballot Hall of Famers. Anyone who trashes either player does not know football, or is a hater. Give credit where credit is due ...or you are a Jets fan!!!Cool
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]UD6 like all colts fans are a very funny bunch.  They like to talk about Records-Mannings records, but the moment you throw our brady's records including superbowls........."oh no, brady's records are team record, but Mannings records are his personal records. Are you guys insane? Which record in footbal is not team related? Does manning throw to himself? Does he play on the offensive line. Does he tackle anyone or anything? Neither QB does. It is reasonale to claim that under stressful game conditions, the QB that mostly comes through is the better QB. And its Tom. Very simple. If records were switched and manning and his teams were to have brady and his teams' records and vice versa, will you bunch still say brady is better? I bet not.
    Posted by achie[/QUOTE]

    if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas. 

    I challenge the comments and the best you can do is "if the shoe were on the other foot".  Its not, and I still challenged the comment.  Apparently, though, above is all you've got.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]Manning is a great QB, nearly as good as Brady. BOTH are first ballot Hall of Famers. Anyone who trashes either player does not know football, or is a hater. Give credit where credit is due ...or you are a Jets fan!!!
    Posted by rainbowroosie[/QUOTE]

    Troll or jests fan
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : And how again were you able to prove Brady would've faltered given these situations you mentioned? 
    Posted by dastardly[/QUOTE]

    What I can say is that with the pats down and the opp to tie a game, Viniateri did that.  In OT with the opp to win a game, Viniateri did that.  In two playoff games in the same situation, vanderjagt failed. 

     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]Well to be honest for me its about Brady VS Big Ben. Right now Ben is the only guy who is even close to winning more super bowls. He has 2 and Brady has 3, he has 3 shots at a super bowl and Brady has 4. So its always been Brady VS Manning as to who is the better legacy QB but as far as someone actually competing with Brady for super bowls in a career the Steelers are a much better organization then the Colts and so Ben will continue to get more shots at it and Manning wont. So for me its more Brady VS Ben.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    You're right. That could be the next rivalry. Didn't even think about that one.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jh13. Show jh13's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    one thing that this shows is that we could argue stats as better QB but as far as leadership goes, its Brady hands down.  Peyton basically left the Colts with one option, only Manning.  Way too much of a control freak...something that seems to be a genetric trait in the Manning family.  Brady has helped groom backup QBs who could step in when something happened to him.

    I would think that Manning would throw a complete fit if the Colts ever tried to bring in a QB to be his successor.  I doubt that he would even help to groom the kid and instead look at the guy as someone he has to destroy.  And now, the Colts are going to have to pay dearly this season for this.

    Stats wise...Peyton and Brady are way too close to be definite but as far as helping the team stay one top and doing what is needed, its Brady hands down.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dastardly. Show dastardly's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : What I can say is that with the pats down and the opp to tie a game, Viniateri did that.  In OT with the opp to win a game, Viniateri did that.  In two playoff games in the same situation, vanderjagt failed. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Means nothing.  In that scenario, Brady could've driven the Pats to a TD, negating the need for a FG.  Or at the very least driven the team closer to the FG making it easier for Vanderjagt.  And yes I can envision this actually happening given Brady's track record with avoiding costly INTs in the games most critical moments.
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]Watch how the idiots at ESPN say Peyton is the better QB, after the Colts fall apart this season. Pats went 11-5 with Casell, Steelers did well winning 3 out of4 without Big Ben. Instead of realizing that the Pats and Steelers are a better run organization, they instead will tell us how Peyton is irreplaceable and the best QB ever. Just Wait
    Posted by patriots44[/QUOTE]



    The Cassel year was a weak schedule so they can't use the record that season to make an argument Manning is better.
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Manning vs Brady : The Cassel year was a weak schedule so they can't use the record that season to make an argument Manning is better.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    and because belichick is the best coach in the NFL. the patriots schedule wasn't that tough but 11-5 isn't easy for any team in this league. 

    the colts will be a sub .500 team without manning, not because manning is better than brady but because the colts have no depth and have been built to win one way, with manning. another huge difference is the coaching, belichick vs caldwell... not even close!  

    imo brady is clearly better than manning, its not as close as many make it out to be.. the patriots offensive line gets a  lot of credit for protecting brady but most of that is because of brady's ability to read the defense and get rid of the ball. 



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from achie. Show achie's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.  I challenge the comments and the best you can do is "if the shoe were on the other foot".  Its not, and I still challenged the comment.  Apparently, though, above is all you've got.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]


    UD6, its obvious you have a weak mind, but at least follow the trend of the discussion. Would you say Brady is better than Manning if Brady had mannings records and manning had Bradys records. Its a very simple question that requires little imagination with your kind of thought process.
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : ah the fallacy.  Rings are team related.  Manning never played defense or special teams.  Manning's kicker missed two clutch kicks in different playoff games that could have won or extended those games.  Did that ever happen to Brady?  Did Brady's coach ever call timeout with a 2 point lead and the opposition driving with less than a minute to go giving the opposition the ability to hold on to their last timeout and enough time to figure out a play that might put them in FG range?  Manning's had to overcome things Brady's never had to consider.  Sure Brady's got the rings, but he would have floundered in Indy.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
    So, Manning is better than Brady solely because of stats, then?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]one thing that this shows is that we could argue stats as better QB but as far as leadership goes, its Brady hands down.  Peyton basically left the Colts with one option, only Manning.  Way too much of a control freak...something that seems to be a genetric trait in the Manning family.  Brady has helped groom backup QBs who could step in when something happened to him. I would think that Manning would throw a complete fit if the Colts ever tried to bring in a QB to be his successor.  I doubt that he would even help to groom the kid and instead look at the guy as someone he has to destroy.  And now, the Colts are going to have to pay dearly this season for this. Stats wise...Peyton and Brady are way too close to be definite but as far as helping the team stay one top and doing what is needed, its Brady hands down.
    Posted by jh13[/QUOTE]

    Interesting that you would call the one person who has his hands on the ball every play on offense too controlling. 

    I'll bet you have always praised the controlling competitive fire that Larry Bird had. 

    I also happen to think that your characterization about how many would be with a young QB is pure speculation.  Interesting that you would characterize Manning this way yet the pats have yet to bring in Brady's successor.  That you would blame Manning for back ups like Painter and Sorgi not being good is ridiculous.  Do we blame Brady for O'connell not being good.  Sometimes players get it.  Sometimes they don't. 

    Take off the glasses and open your mind. 
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : Means nothing.  In that scenario, Brady could've driven the Pats to a TD, negating the need for a FG.  Or at the very least driven the team closer to the FG making it easier for Vanderjagt.  And yes I can envision this actually happening given Brady's track record with avoiding costly INTs in the games most critical moments.
    Posted by dastardly[/QUOTE]

    not if it ended the game or if the opposition took the ball and scored on the next possession, which is exactly what happened in both situations.  But listen, you keep working on those scenarios until you can finally say "I got one". 

    All the time, remember that it never happened to Brady. 

    Oh - and did you remember that Brady threw an int to end the pats chances in the 06 AFCCG

    did you remember that Brady fumbled deep in patriots territory on the pats first possession vs. the Ravens in 09 allowing them to go up 14 pts with less than 5 minutes gone in the game?  Or that 5 minutes later on the team's 3rd possession he threw an int deep in Patriots territory giving baltimore only 25 yds to their next score and essentially sealing the loss for the pats with 4 minutes still to go in the FIRST QUARTER.  Did you remember that he wasn't even done with his turnovers not just in the game but IN THAT QUARTER and threw ANOTHER INT allowing the Ravens to score again.  Maybe you don't consider it critical because it was in the 1st Quarter but Brady's blunders in that quarter alone set up the ravens for 17 points essentially sealing no chance of a comeback. 

    Against the Jets, on 3rd and 10 with 2 minutes to go in the game and the pats down 10, Brady throws a 1 yard pass to Woodhead essentially guaranteeing no opportunity to move the chains and settling for a FG and being down 7 points.  The jets seal the game by quickly scoring another 7. 

    Not great stuff.
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : So, Manning is better than Brady solely because of stats, then?
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    No.  I think MVP's matter.  All Pro selections matter.  Stat's matter.  

    When the NFL network did an all-time great show, Manning was listed 14 spots higher than Brady. 

    All you then think that I don't think Brady is great, but you are wrong. 
     
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    Re: Manning vs Brady

    In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Manning vs Brady : and because belichick is the best coach in the NFL. the patriots schedule wasn't that tough but 11-5 isn't easy for any team in this league.  the colts will be a sub .500 team without manning, not because manning is better than brady but because the colts have no depth and have been built to win one way, with manning. another huge difference is the coaching, belichick vs caldwell... not even close!   imo brady is clearly better than manning, its not as close as many make it out to be.. the patriots offensive line gets a  lot of credit for protecting brady but most of that is because of brady's ability to read the defense and get rid of the ball. 
    Posted by kjfitone[/QUOTE]

    I see a fallacy in this argument. 

    As you note the colts are built to win one way and they have.  You didn't mention this about the pats so I assume you think the pats can win in many ways.  The pressure alone is substantially different for Brady and Manning right there. 

    Manning has won despite the lack of help elsewhere.  Brady can't say that because he hasn't really been faced with it.  I suppose we could look at 09, and if so, look at what a disaster that was for the pats and brady in particular in the playoffs. 

    Further as you note Brady's got the benefit of a great coach.  Manning, not so much.  In fact, the coach was integral to the colts loss last year in the playoffs - not Manning.  He put the team ahead with less than 1 minute to play.
     

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