Marcus Forston

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    I know Miami (Hurricanes) run some 3-4 down there and their rep as a front when Forston was there playing in their front, was that they rushed the passer better out of their 3-4. That's somewhat rare.

    With Armstead out with some kind of an infection, maybe needing to be PUPd, maybe Forston can join with Kelly and form a good front 3 in the 3-4.  He's 6'3 about 310 lbs, so it would be sort of like a Ty Warren type frame, albeit a couple inches shorter.

    Thoughts?

     

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4746103/leaner-forston-follows-wilforks-lead

    Leaner Forston follows Wilfork's lead August, 3, 2013 Aug 3 9:45 AM ET By Field Yates | ESPNBoston.com

    FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The Patriots parted ways with two players -- Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick -- who started alongside Vince Wilfork at defensive tackle in 2012, leaving playing time up for grabs among the remaining players at the position.

    Much of our attention this offseason was devoted to analyzing former Canadian Football League standout Armond Armstead, who has yet to practice in training camp following surgery to cure an infection, and veteran presence Tommy Kelly, signed as a free agent this spring.

    But one player who has also drawn notice in the early goings of training camp is second-year man Marcus Forston, who landed on the 53-man roster in 2012 after being signed as a rookie free agent out of Miami.

    Forston (who is technically listed as a first-year player on the roster based on accrued seasons) looks to be in much better shape this season, showing off a leaner, fitter build that has allowed him to take reps as a second-level player on the kickoff return team, as well as flash some quickness as an interior rusher.

    Hard work this offseason appears to have paid off for the 23-year old, as has being a sponge to Wilfork, who like Forston is a Miami graduate. Forston spends extensive time with Wilfork, both on the field and off.

    "All the time," he said of being around Wilfork. "I'm probably with Vince four days out of the week. Either that's here or at his house."

    And while the two have formed a friendship through their times as teammates, the focus of their conversation remains their profession.

    "It's always talk about football when me and him are around," Forston said. "It's always about football. I'm always picking his brain."

     



    Buddy, when are you going to give up this idea that we're switching to a 3-4?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    I think the personnel are there for the 3-4... how much use it gets, we shall see. 

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to dreighver's comment:

    I think the personnel are there for the 3-4... how much use it gets, we shall see. 

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    I think it is also the personel that is not there. The team is short on DT, making the 3-4 more plausible. In a true 3-4, I don think a legit back up nose is on the team, assuming Kelly gets regular snaps at DE. Fortson is not big enough imo.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Ok, so 1 vote for Forston not big enough even though he is 6'3 310.

    Duly noted.



    he is really 290-295...oh yeah, you havent seen him

    remember when you said the media is ignoring the Cooper story? Bwahahaha!

    remember when you said A Reid wasnt making personel decisons in Philly? Bwahahaha!

    go back to posting your boring snippets on other teams that no one cares about...hey is Pete Carroll over rated?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    Count me as one that thinks the pats do not have the personnel on the DL to run a good 3-4. Vw and Kelly yes, but I don't see another de that can do it...yet. Armstead was possibly that guy, but all the other dt's less kelly and vw are 4-3 dt's or 3-4 nts. If you moved Vince to de and a guy like Grissom rose up, then maybe, but I don't see it yet. Armstead will hurt us here unless he gets healthy. 

    In all honesty, given the strength at 4-3 DT, de and our lbs, I would like to see us in more 2-5. I think that better exploits our strengths at this point. Or 4-3.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    Forston went undrafted for a reason, he might turn into a good role player like Love and Deaderick were but not a top line starter.  I really hope Armstead is ready to start the season, if he is than you'll see more 3/4 looks, otherwise we'll start with the big nickel.   That being said we have plenty of linebackers for the 3/4, Chandler Jones has been playing standing up all throughout camp according to TrueChamp and other eye witnesses, so if all the DT's are healthy then the personnel is there.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    Ok, so 1 vote for Forston not big enough even though he is 6'3 310.

    Duly noted.

     



    he is really 290-295...oh yeah, you havent seen him

     

    remember when you said the media is ignoring the Cooper story? Bwahahaha!

    remember when you said A Reid wasnt making personel decisons in Philly? Bwahahaha!

    go back to posting your boring snippets on other teams that no one cares about...hey is Pete Carroll over rated?



    LOL!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to dreighver's comment:

     

    I think the personnel are there for the 3-4... how much use it gets, we shall see. 

    _________________

    Let's go Pats!

     




    I think it is also the personel that is not there. The team is short on DT, making the 3-4 more plausible. In a true 3-4, I don think a legit back up nose is on the team, assuming Kelly gets regular snaps at DE. Fortson is not big enough imo.

     



    I agree that the defensive tackle position is a little thin and really not the typical gap control style needed. Plus there's also 10 guys on the roster that are 43 defensive ends...not outside 34 backer types.

    I will say that we really will need to see Fortson in a game before we say he is not big enough, etc, because I've watched draft busts like Brace play at 330 pounds and get pushed back like he was on rollar skates. On the other hand I watched Brandon Mitchell play at 285, Jarvis Green 280, Bobby Hamilton 280 and all of them held their ground in a 34.

    Forston supposedly had high round talent, but fell because of effort and attitude. It sounds like he is putting in the effort and found a mentor in Wilfork. I guarantee the guy has more talent than Kyle Love - the guy who I think they are going to miss is Deaderick. I thought that guy was more than adequate as defensive end in the 34 (he must of been a royal locker room headcase for them to let him go). 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

     

    Bill Belichick has kind of gotten away from the pure 3-4 he ran in the early 2000s, and he really doesn't have the players for that anyway.  I think we will continue to see lots of hybrid formations, with elements of 2-gap and 1-gap and different combinations and numbers of bigger guys in the middle and faster guys on the edges.  Basically, though, I expect two big guys (probably Wilfork and Kelly) in the middle of the line most of the time, with more quicker DE/LB types around them.  At times one of the bigger DEs (Armstead, Forston) may, however, play more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3, but the positions are increasingly fluid and it's getting harder and harder to classify players as one thing or another.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjetssuc. Show nyjetssuc's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston


    He had one great year while at UMiami and was a big deal coming out of HS....he's worked hard and seems to be grabbing the chance to play at a high level...good for him....but, in reality, do we have any other choice right now but to hope he does well and picks it up?.... I'm sure they're going to pick the end of preseason waiver wire to the bone looking for some possible vet. interior DL's.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to dreighver's comment:

     

    I think the personnel are there for the 3-4... how much use it gets, we shall see. 

    _________________

    Let's go Pats!

     




    I think it is also the personel that is not there. The team is short on DT, making the 3-4 more plausible. In a true 3-4, I don think a legit back up nose is on the team, assuming Kelly gets regular snaps at DE. Fortson is not big enough imo.

     

     



    I agree that the defensive tackle position is a little thin and really not the typical gap control style needed. Plus there's also 10 guys on the roster that are 43 defensive ends...not outside 34 backer types.

     

    I will say that we really will need to see Fortson in a game before we say he is not big enough, etc, because I've watched draft busts like Brace play at 330 pounds and get pushed back like he was on rollar skates. On the other hand I watched Brandon Mitchell play at 285, Jarvis Green 280, Bobby Hamilton 280 and all of them held their ground in a 34.

    Forston supposedly had high round talent, but fell because of effort and attitude. It sounds like he is putting in the effort and found a mentor in Wilfork. I guarantee the guy has more talent than Kyle Love - the guy who I think they are going to miss is Deaderick. I thought that guy was more than adequate as defensive end in the 34 (he must of been a royal locker room headcase for them to let him go). 



    Good Points. B.Ham and J.Green were perfect in their roles and the past 5 years have been disatrous watching our backups consist of no names who cant stay healthy and because of their youth, offer nothing in terms of mentoring or teaching. This is soo overlooked on this board. The Dynasty teams had mentors like A.Pleasant to go along with the 2 other aforementioned guys that still played at a high level in spots and also provided valuble leadership to guys like Seymour and Klecko,etc. Now these young bums just take up roster spots. I mean last year we had to watch half a season before seeing a D-lineman not named Wilfork or Love and now the Love is gone...sounds like a Teddy P song...lol

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Not a total switch like in 2003 or 2004 in that era there, but more use of it. Yes.  There are way too many OLBs/DEs on the roster right now.

    Plus, BB has been fiddling with it late in the year the last 2 years in a row to see how they look using it. It didn't work at all at the end of 2011 and it was just ok. But, he likes to have that option of switching between schemes, hopefully in seamless way during games. 

    He likes guys with versatility. Forston played in some 3-4 in college. Just saying.



    Yeah, but Chandler has lined up with the DEs all TC and hasn't once lined up with the LBs. Similar to Collins exclusively lining up at LB. Chandler, to the best of my knowledge, has never played OLB in a 3-4. Wouldn't BB want him to get snaps at that position?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Forston went undrafted for a reason, he might turn into a good role player like Love and Deaderick were but not a top line starter.  I really hope Armstead is ready to start the season, if he is than you'll see more 3/4 looks, otherwise we'll start with the big nickel.   That being said we have plenty of linebackers for the 3/4, Chandler Jones has been playing standing up all throughout camp according to TrueChamp and other eye witnesses, so if all the DT's are healthy then the personnel is there.


    Could it be that BB wants Chandler to roam around the DL? I mean, he's not playing with the LBs when the defense splits up.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tydog. Show Tydog's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    So C. Jones has not lined up as a traditional 43 DE all training camp?  But at the same time not working with the LBs. Looks like he is going to be some kind of a rush backer.  Didnt BB do this with LT a lot with the Giants and look for pass protection weaknesses?

     This D should be fun to watch this year. 

    "I swear it upon Zues the most exceptional runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler"  Socrates

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Bill Belichick has kind of gotten away from the pure 3-4 he ran in the early 2000s, and he really doesn't have the players for that anyway.  I think we will continue to see lots of hybrid formations, with elements of 2-gap and 1-gap and different combinations and numbers of bigger guys in the middle and faster guys on the edges.  Basically, though, I expect two big guys (probably Wilfork and Kelly) in the middle of the line most of the time, with more quicker DE/LB types around them.  At times one of the bigger DEs (Armstead, Forston) may, however, play more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3, but the positions are increasingly fluid and it's getting harder and harder to classify players as one thing or another.  



    Good points.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Bill Belichick has kind of gotten away from the pure 3-4 he ran in the early 2000s, and he really doesn't have the players for that anyway.  I think we will continue to see lots of hybrid formations, with elements of 2-gap and 1-gap and different combinations and numbers of bigger guys in the middle and faster guys on the edges.  Basically, though, I expect two big guys (probably Wilfork and Kelly) in the middle of the line most of the time, with more quicker DE/LB types around them.  At times one of the bigger DEs (Armstead, Forston) may, however, play more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3, but the positions are increasingly fluid and it's getting harder and harder to classify players as one thing or another.  

     




     

    Yep.  I still think it will be a lot of nickel and the 4-3 and 3-4 alignment may not necessarily matter all that much if Adrian Wilson will be used in and around the line scrimmage on the edge, almost like a 3-4 OLB.

    2 5 4 type of thing

                  

               Wilfork Kelly

    Nink, Hightower, Spikes, Mayo, Jones,

                                                  A. Wilson

    Talib                                                    Dennard

                 McCourty

    Something like that I think we'll be seeing a lot of with Arrington coming on for 3rds with A. Wilson and Spikes off with Collins coming in for 3rd down subrushing and/or coverage upgrade.

    I was just wondering what people thought of Forston's potential backing up Vince and Kelly when they're give a rest or have a ding of some kind.

    Anyway, should be very interesting. BB never shows what he wants to use a lot of in preseason, but there should be some clues on Friday night.

    [/QUOTE]

    When they cut Deaderick and Love I figured BB liked what he saw of Forston last year.  I suspect BB thinks he's ready to be a back up or even start to crack the rotation a bit. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Bill Belichick has kind of gotten away from the pure 3-4 he ran in the early 2000s, and he really doesn't have the players for that anyway.  I think we will continue to see lots of hybrid formations, with elements of 2-gap and 1-gap and different combinations and numbers of bigger guys in the middle and faster guys on the edges.  Basically, though, I expect two big guys (probably Wilfork and Kelly) in the middle of the line most of the time, with more quicker DE/LB types around them.  At times one of the bigger DEs (Armstead, Forston) may, however, play more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3, but the positions are increasingly fluid and it's getting harder and harder to classify players as one thing or another.  



    Actually BB ran a 43 in 2 of the SB's and didn't really switch to the 34 until around 03' and fully switched in 04'

    More to the point we don't have the players to switch to a 34. I know people think we are thin at DT for a 43 but look around the league and you'll see most 43 DT's are ~285-300 sized. We just really like them big here. On the other hand most 34 DE's are ~290-310. So looking at our roster we have Kelley, Forston, Wilfork, and a bunch of UDFA's to run as possible 34 DE's with really only Wilfork to be the NT and Kelley might be large enough to spot in but that's it. Nink, Jones, Hightower, Bequette, Francis, Cunningham would all be 34 OLB elephants and not DE's. We would be extremely overloaded at LB and not enough DL to make that switch for most of the game. As for being thin at 43 DT well that's a matter of perspective. Forston, Wilfork, and Kelley are our large running down DT's. I'd like to have another one in there but they are bigger guys for running downs. However, when you get to passing downs you can afford to have smaller DL in the DT position. Nink, Francis, Cunningham, Bequette can all move inside and have either done it last year or during practices. Heck even Hightower might be able to move inside for a couple of unique looks. He did play inside a couple times in bama. So we are much better built for the 43 right now and have plenty of 43 DT depth on passing downs but we still need at least one more big body on running downs. Of course having big bodies in the form of Spikes and Hightower in the LB core on running downs doesn't hurt either

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Bill Belichick has kind of gotten away from the pure 3-4 he ran in the early 2000s, and he really doesn't have the players for that anyway.  I think we will continue to see lots of hybrid formations, with elements of 2-gap and 1-gap and different combinations and numbers of bigger guys in the middle and faster guys on the edges.  Basically, though, I expect two big guys (probably Wilfork and Kelly) in the middle of the line most of the time, with more quicker DE/LB types around them.  At times one of the bigger DEs (Armstead, Forston) may, however, play more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3, but the positions are increasingly fluid and it's getting harder and harder to classify players as one thing or another.  

     



    Actually BB ran a 43 in 2 of the SB's and didn't really switch to the 34 until around 03' and fully switched in 04'

     

    More to the point we don't have the players to switch to a 34. I know people think we are thin at DT for a 43 but look around the league and you'll see most 43 DT's are ~285-300 sized. We just really like them big here. On the other hand most 34 DE's are ~290-310. So looking at our roster we have Kelley, Forston, Wilfork, and a bunch of UDFA's to run as possible 34 DE's with really only Wilfork to be the NT and Kelley might be large enough to spot in but that's it. Nink, Jones, Hightower, Bequette, Francis, Cunningham would all be 34 OLB elephants and not DE's. We would be extremely overloaded at LB and not enough DL to make that switch for most of the game. As for being thin at 43 DT well that's a matter of perspective. Forston, Wilfork, and Kelley are our large running down DT's. I'd like to have another one in there but they are bigger guys for running downs. However, when you get to passing downs you can afford to have smaller DL in the DT position. Nink, Francis, Cunningham, Bequette can all move inside and have either done it last year or during practices. Heck even Hightower might be able to move inside for a couple of unique looks. He did play inside a couple times in bama. So we are much better built for the 43 right now and have plenty of 43 DT depth on passing downs but we still need at least one more big body on running downs. Of course having big bodies in the form of Spikes and Hightower in the LB core on running downs doesn't hurt either

    [/QUOTE]

    ^^^ what pateng said

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    To nobody in particular,

    We should really stop saying Belichick runs a 4/3 or has run it exclusively in the past, the only year we ran a true 4/3 (and it was only for about half the regular season) was 2003.  

    The linebacking corps got hit with the injury bug, Ted Johnson was out after 8 games (only starting the first two), Rosie Colvin was limited to two games, Mike Vrabel, Willie Mac and others missed time.  

    The only rocks that year were Bruschi and Roman Phifer.  Being that BB had one undersized middle linebacker in Bru and a couple of all purpose LB's like Phifer at his disposal but a plethora of healthy DT's, it made perfect sense to switch, but in fact it was the only choice he had.

    2001 and 2004 we ran a 3/4, we ran a 3/4 back in 1996, Belichick ran a 3/4 with the Browns and Giants.  There were times along the way, against huge physical offensive lines or when injury dictated that Belichick fielded a 4/3 look for a single game, but let's not rewrite history here...

    Today we run a big nickel package as our base, two defensive tackles, 5 linebackers and 4 defensive backs, sometimes subbing a safety in place of a linebacker.  Belichick made the "switch" a few years ago at the start of the defensive rebuild, he did it because he had the youngest defense in the entire NFL and the only veteran free agents brought in were Andre Carter and Mark Anderson, both of whom's strengths were rushing the passer.  

    With a completely green, young group of defenders and shortened camp due to labor negotiations it was impossible to teach them all how to play an intricate 3/4 defense requiring most of them to make decisions on the fly, instead he eschewed it in favor of a simple upfield rush nickel package as his base.  It was out of necessity...

    The truth is that we've always run these nickel packages going back to the early years, BB always had these packages but they were usually used on obvious passing downs. Belichick was the first to have one DT on the field with a whole bunch of linebackers and pass rushers standing, kind of walking around confused, until the ball was snapped then they rushed upfield to confuse the opposing QB.  He always fielded fast pass rushers and allowed his DT's, who were usually relegated to playing two gap, the opportunity to get after the QB.

    Something else to consider is that the league has changed and so has Belichick, passing and no huddle have been shoved down our throats by Goodell.  You can only carry so many behemoth DT's on your roster now because they usually don't get too heavily involved in special teams, there is now a premium on players who can play every snap.  

    The way offenses are set up nowadays, even though we still run a 3/4 base, you would only ever see three DT's on the field on a first down or a third and short situation anyhow.  The big DT position has been marginalized by the league.

    With all this being said if Armstead is healthy, available and most of all as talented as he appeared in Canada, then Wilfork at nose with Kelly and Armond at ends is as good a 3/4 base as you'd find in the league.  

    They are certainly thin behind those three, perhaps Fortson is the best available because he has a low center of gravity enough to fill in at nose tackle when Vince and Kelly are unavailable but is also mobile enough where he could fill in at end.  All this could change if BB decides to pick up a vet free agent DT after camp cuts but I don't think he will unless someone wildly talented is available.  There are only so many roster spots available and using one on somebody who would only play two downs a game is unlikely, also they may not be an upgrade over the 4 DT's we'll end up carrying.

    We've never run a 4/3 by choice, it was always out of necessity or because we gained an advantage in a matchup against a specific offense.  This season BB drafted another every down linebacker in Collins, the first signing of the season was a 3/4 end DT in Armstead, Chandler Jones has been practicing standing on two feet ala Willie McGinest in camp... we've always run a 3/4 and this year it will be the same (health provided) but the difference should be a substantially improved roster and pass rush.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    Wozzy,

    The Pats ran a 2 gap 43 in 01'. It started in 00' with Mitchell and Hamilton under the DT positions, many thought this was a strange hybrid for certain but that's what they ran. In 01' Seymour and Hamilton played inside at DT that they started moving towards the 34 in 02'. In 02' they used more of a hybrid closer to what we are currently using but still Seymour played inside on certain downs and more often than he was outside. In 03' Washington came on the team and we switched to a 34, with the exception of late in the year because of injures, then after that with the addition of Wilfork we stuck with it until they traded Seymour and recently had to move back to the 34/43 hybrid because of lack of personal for a 34. Last year they ran a lot of 4 man fronts even out of the nickle package. I'm going to try to find the presser but BB himself said they used a 43 in 2 of the SB's and used 43 for the first couple years in NE until they got Washington in 03'.

    Lets not rewrite history, BB ran more 43 than 34 from 00'-02' and 03' was almost 50/50 and the last 2-3 years or so he's ran more 4 man fronts than 3 man. I'm sure if BB had another Seymour, Hamilton, Warren type of player he'd run more 34 but they aren't on the team right now. Heck outside of Wilfork we don't have a single DL who resemble those 3 guys. Jones is closest to Willie but who are the other DL? It might be out of nesseciaty but it's a problem BB created and now we are a bit stuck in 4 man fronts because of the lack of that talent upfront. Add a couple of bigger DL to take Warrens and Seymours places and I'm sure Nink wouldn't be on this team and the combo of Hightower, Spikes, Mayo, Collins, and Jones would be similar to Bruschi, Willie, Ted, Phifer, and Vrable.

    BTW where does this confidence in Armstead come from? A player we haven't even seen a single NFL snap from you are listing already as part of one of the best 34 DL fronts in the league? That's a lot of praise for someone who can't even get on the field right now


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Wozzy,

    The Pats ran a 2 gap 43 in 01'. It started in 00' with Mitchell and Hamilton under the DT positions, many thought this was a strange hybrid for certain but that's what they ran. In 01' Seymour and Hamilton played inside at DT that they started moving towards the 34 in 02'. In 02' they used more of a hybrid closer to what we are currently using but still Seymour played inside on certain downs and more often than he was outside. In 03' Washington came on the team and we switched to a 34, with the exception of late in the year because of injures, then after that with the addition of Wilfork we stuck with it until they traded Seymour and recently had to move back to the 34/43 hybrid because of lack of personal for a 34. Last year they ran a lot of 4 man fronts even out of the nickle package. I'm going to try to find the presser but BB himself said they used a 43 in 2 of the SB's and used 43 for the first couple years in NE until they got Washington in 03'.

    Lets not rewrite history, BB ran more 43 than 34 from 00'-02' and 03' was almost 50/50 and the last 2-3 years or so he's ran more 4 man fronts than 3 man. I'm sure if BB had another Seymour, Hamilton, Warren type of player he'd run more 34 but they aren't on the team right now. Heck outside of Wilfork we don't have a single DL who resemble those 3 guys. Jones is closest to Willie but who are the other DL? It might be out of nesseciaty but it's a problem BB created and now we are a bit stuck in 4 man fronts because of the lack of that talent upfront. Add a couple of bigger DL to take Warrens and Seymours places and I'm sure Nink wouldn't be on this team and the combo of Hightower, Spikes, Mayo, Collins, and Jones would be similar to Bruschi, Willie, Ted, Phifer, and Vrable.

    BTW where does this confidence in Armstead come from? A player we haven't even seen a single NFL snap from you are listing already as part of one of the best 34 DL fronts in the league? That's a lot of praise for someone who can't even get on the field right now


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus



    Nice post and true. Belichick also ran a 43 in Cleveland for a large part of his time there. I will say being at camp this year it looked like the defensive front is built to play 43, our ends are more the 43 type. Now some of these guys are big enough to be 34 ends in a pinch, but that can be said about a lot of guys that play defensive line, but they look like your typical 43 guys...Bequette, Francis, Jones, Buchanan. I mean they could cut three of those four, but the fact remains we only have two legitimate defensive tackles on the team right now (we don't know about Forston) and we got rid of Deaderick before camp opened...Love too. Armstead looked like he had talent to me, but we may never see that guy...which leads me to, why the hell didn't we place a premium on signing some defensive linemen? Or drafting them? We knew we were weak in that regard, I really thought that was our number one priority this off season.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Wozzy,

    The Pats ran a 2 gap 43 in 01'. It started in 00' with Mitchell and Hamilton under the DT positions, many thought this was a strange hybrid for certain but that's what they ran. In 01' Seymour and Hamilton played inside at DT that they started moving towards the 34 in 02'. In 02' they used more of a hybrid closer to what we are currently using but still Seymour played inside on certain downs and more often than he was outside. In 03' Washington came on the team and we switched to a 34, with the exception of late in the year because of injures, then after that with the addition of Wilfork we stuck with it until they traded Seymour and recently had to move back to the 34/43 hybrid because of lack of personal for a 34. Last year they ran a lot of 4 man fronts even out of the nickle package. I'm going to try to find the presser but BB himself said they used a 43 in 2 of the SB's and used 43 for the first couple years in NE until they got Washington in 03'.

    Lets not rewrite history, BB ran more 43 than 34 from 00'-02' and 03' was almost 50/50 and the last 2-3 years or so he's ran more 4 man fronts than 3 man. I'm sure if BB had another Seymour, Hamilton, Warren type of player he'd run more 34 but they aren't on the team right now. Heck outside of Wilfork we don't have a single DL who resemble those 3 guys. Jones is closest to Willie but who are the other DL? It might be out of nesseciaty but it's a problem BB created and now we are a bit stuck in 4 man fronts because of the lack of that talent upfront. Add a couple of bigger DL to take Warrens and Seymours places and I'm sure Nink wouldn't be on this team and the combo of Hightower, Spikes, Mayo, Collins, and Jones would be similar to Bruschi, Willie, Ted, Phifer, and Vrable.

    BTW where does this confidence in Armstead come from? A player we haven't even seen a single NFL snap from you are listing already as part of one of the best 34 DL fronts in the league? That's a lot of praise for someone who can't even get on the field right now

     

     

    If you read what I wrote above I clearly point out that Belichick has run a 4/3 in the past, in 2001 there was a revolving door of players and outside of Seymour not a single defensive lineman eclipsed the 300 pound mark, he ran with whatever he had and that's been true of every year.

    I never said he didn't run a 4/3, I said he did so out of necessity or due to a matchup with certain opponents.  That being said a 3/4 team can easily make the switch to a 4/3 if need be, a true 4/3 team cannot do the same, they don't usually have defensive ends who can stand up and drop back into coverage and they also tend to draft guys who are fast going forward, not in four directions which is a hallmark of a Belichick player.  

    If Belichick wanted to make a full switch to the 4/3 he would have drafted some pure 4/3 ends which he hasn't done, the only player on our squad I could label a true 4/3 end would be Justin Francis and BB had him playing tackle on passing downs as much or more than end.

    Chandler Jones, Bequette, Cunningham, Buchannon, Vega are all cut from the same cloth as Willie McGinest, elephant outside linebackers.  Yes, they certainly can drop down into a three point stance and rush the QB but they also scored very high on agility drills and can play standing up.  LT was the prototype for this position and even though he was a linebacker by definition Belichick knew enough to have him rush the passer 90% of the time, it didn't make him a defensive end in a 4/3 just because he put a hand in the dirt, they called that a "3/4 over."

    I also stated that if Wilfork, Kelly, Armstead were all healthy to start the season you would still only see a three man front on first downs and short downs, the league has changed.  With high flying offenses the norm now, the need for more beef on the field has been replaced by mobile players who can tackle well in space and can keep up with a no huddle offense.  

    Again by all reports I've read from Truechamp and others Chandler Jones, our starting elephant linebacker has been playing up in a two point stance all throughout camp.  I'm pretty sure he'll still have a ton of opportunities to drop down, pin his ears back and rush the passer as an end, but saying that Belichick wants to limit his ability to run multiple defenses and run a simple 4/3 is baloney, in his perfect world he would run the 3/4, the 4/3 and his variety of nickel packages... to do that you have to start with a base 3/4 because it has the most moving pieces and a 3/4 can easily turn into a 4/3, the opposite cannot be said.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Marcus Forston

    My optimism about Armstead comes from the fact he was the most dominant player in Canada last year and had he not taken medication from team doctors at USC that gave him a heart attack and had been allowed to play his final season, he was going to be a top pick in last year's draft.  You can't teach 6'5" 305 pounds of athleticism, you either are or you aren't.

    Yes, he has to get healthy and stay that way, but thats true of every player on our roster.

    If he's as good as I (and apparently BB since he was a priority free agent) suspect he'll be, than add him to Vince and Kelly, both with Pro Bowl talent, and you have the makings of a solid 3 man front.

     
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