Mario Williams as a Patriot???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/superbowl/2012/02/09/should-the-patriots-take-a-run-at-mario-williams-or-any-top-free-agents/

    I've read several articles this past week mentioning this and how it would make sense for the Pats.  I'm not sure I agree.  I can't argue with the talent level of Mario and how our defense would be dramatically upgraded with such a move, but at what cost?  22 million a year is HUGE money that could really effect the balance of this team right now. 

    Thoughts? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    I'd be nervous spending all that money to a guy that JUST changed positions and technique year ago or so.  He's an impressive talent, but one that might not pan out over the course of the contract.  Too many unknowns for my taste at that price point.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    I would be shocked if they shelled out that kind of $$ for Williams. Last time they shelled out big $$ was for Thomas...and it obviously didn't work out too well. Can't see them going down that road again.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wilforkfitinham. Show Wilforkfitinham's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    22 Million is way too much imo. I would love to see this guy in a Pats uniform don't get me wrong. Its really too bad we lost Carter mid-way through the season. Him and Anderson were getting after opposing QB's with Love and Vince clogging the middle like that relentless turd that won't go down!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bubthegrub12. Show Bubthegrub12's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    I wouldn't be surprised if Houston tagged Mario. After all, he was the #1 pick, and had been a key piece for their defense. Though they still did well after he was lost for the season. I think he'd be a good fit, especially since BB seems to be switching back and forth between a 3-4 and a 4-3. But the price is high, I just can't imagine them putting out that much on one guy (who isn't named Brady).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    If they didn't spend it on Peppers they won't spend it on Williams
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    Is there a player worth more than Brady to the Pats?  I think not!  Mario does not WIN games as a defensive player!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    We should have a FA thread like MB's Draft thread. By then we can consolidate all the FA talk into one nice discussion
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    It wouldn't cost NE $22 million per. It would cost Houston, because (IIRC) he was previously franchised. 

    His market rate would be lower.

    He would still be crazy expensive unless he took a discount. 

    But in many ways, he is the player BB is looking for. Long and powerful with experience/skill in 34 and 43. 

    He is a better version of McGinest.

    My guess is NE will continue looking on the cheap though. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???



    Is it worth 22 million to win the Super Bowl?  At some point we need to realize that it's talent that wins the big games and we don't have enough of it.  BB does a magnificant job getting mediocre talent to perform way above its head.  But relying on guys like Ninkovich and Ellis to get pressure on the QB has its price.  If we can find great OLBs and DEs in the draft, then fine . . . but our track record isn't good there recently (OLB has been a problem since Vrabel left)--and at some point we may have to open the wallet or keep watching the Lombardi go elsewhere.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    too pricy, max bb would offer is around 9 mil per i am betting
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]He is a better version of McGinest.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I think I actually swooned when I read this.  We've missed Big Willie dearly here, and a better version would be wonderous indeed.

    2 players BB has spent his coaching career searching for is another Bavaro and another LT.  He finally struck gold on the Bavaro front, would be nice to see us strike gold on that pass rusher now.  It's obvious doing so via the draft is incredibly hard, largely because of where we've been drafting, but we've struck out badly when we did swing as well.  It may have to come from FA. 

    Mark Anderson played extremely well this season and hopefully we can look forward to seeing him in a Pats jersey for some time.  We just need someone opposite him now, whether it be on the line or an OLB that has that dynamic big play ability with a high level of consistency. 

    I'm not happy about the money Mario would demand, but if you want that level of production it is going to cost you.  One thing is clear though.  If BB does pull the trigger on that kind of move, his usual long term vision will have clearly have shifted to short term.  Considering BB and Brady probably only have another 3-5 years together, that may not be a bad thing.  It might be time to push all the chips forward and declare all in. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]If they didn't spend it on Peppers they won't spend it on Williams
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Can't really use that train of thought.  Peppers was 30 years old when that all went down and I believe he got a 5 year contract that takes him to 35. 

    Williams is 27 and has only got better with time.  A 5 year deal only brings him to 32, where he may stick around with the Pats after that as Mallet becomes the new franchise QB, jk.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wmasschilly. Show wmasschilly's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]We should have a FA thread like MB's Draft thread. By then we can consolidate all the FA talk into one nice discussion
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Great idea, someone started one a few days ago but it seems to have fizzled out. I think FA starts on March 13th, so plenty of time to speculate...as for Williams, I read that Houston has already said they won't tag him, but my guess is that BB would rather fill as many holes as possible instead of breaking the bank for a guy coming off an injury---I'd be happy with Lloyd, Finnegan, and Griffin or Goldson
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from profootball. Show profootball's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    too much money for an injury Mario.  Go for the 1st and 2nd picks in the draft.  There are a couple kids from LSU and Alabama can be start in the NFL right away.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot??? : Can't really use that train of thought.  Peppers was 30 years old when that all went down and I believe he got a 5 year contract that takes him to 35.  Williams is 27 and has only got better with time.  A 5 year deal only brings him to 32, where he may stick around with the Pats after that as Mallet becomes the new franchise QB, jk.  
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    I understand the logic there but you are also talking about impact players. Peppers, Seymour, and Williams all provide the top end impact to the team and wanted to be top 3 paid players. When it came down to money they opted not to extend Seymour and not to pursue Peppers beyond a faint interest. I just don't see them paying out top 3 money in the position to players that haven't played in the system.

    Now a Cliff Avril, Mincey, or Langford who would be in that second tier of options and cost much less I could see them showing interest in but not a top 3 type of player from another team
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    Williams at most 13 per year, not 22. As has previously been said the texans would need to pay 22 million if they franchize him again.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot??? : I understand the logic there but you are also talking about impact players. Peppers, Seymour, and Williams all provide the top end impact to the team and wanted to be top 3 paid players. When it came down to money they opted not to extend Seymour and not to pursue Peppers beyond a faint interest. I just don't see them paying out top 3 money in the position to players that haven't played in the system. Now a Cliff Avril, Mincey, or Langford who would be in that second tier of options and cost much less I could see them showing interest in but not a top 3 type of player from another team
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Sure, money wise you're absolutely right.  He is going to want top money.  However, you'd hope that top 5 money at the position could get it done to play along side Wilfork, and have a Andre carter, or Anderson on the otherside.  I mean if you get Mario somehow, and bring in Cortland Finnegan the defense changes dramatically.  Then throw the draft you fix saftey and WR.  I think Mario is worth the difference he brings to NE, but of course I know BB doesn't like to spend like that.

    This team is in need of a difference making pass-rusher though. So it wouldn't hurt to get elite at that position. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]It wouldn't cost NE $22 million per. It would cost Houston, because (IIRC) he was previously franchised.  His market rate would be lower. He would still be crazy expensive unless he took a discount.  But in many ways, he is the player BB is looking for. Long and powerful with experience/skill in 34 and 43.  He is a better version of McGinest. My guess is NE will continue looking on the cheap though. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]
    Zb is correct, he wouldn't cost us $22MM.  He would only cost Houston $22MM if they tagged him.  That's why they won't tag him and instead will likely tag Foster at a cost of $8MM.  If they try to restrict Foster, they could lose him to a team like us, or CIN who has money it must now burn and who needs a RB probably more than any team, and who has 2 first round picks and can afford to use one on Foster.

    Back to Mario, he really is the only big time 34 DE that will likely hit the market.  He will get a big deal but I don't think Peppers big.  It will probably be in the neighborhood of 6 years, $80MM with maybe $50MM guaranteed.  We could swing it if we wanted by back loading it effectively making it a 5 year deal with the ability to dump most of the remaining $30MM at the end.

    We could even make it cap neutral year one if we dump Matt Light's $5MM cap charge.  As much as Light has meant to the team, having 4 quality OTs is a luxury and getting a stud 34 DE who can also drop back at times would seem to be more valuable.  We would then still have cap space to tag Welker and pick up a stud F/A DB and WR all before the draft.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from smorgan86. Show smorgan86's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/superbowl/2012/02/09/should-the-patriots-take-a-run-at-mario-williams-or-any-top-free-agents/ I've read several articles this past week mentioning this and how it would make sense for the Pats.  I'm not sure I agree.  I can't argue with the talent level of Mario and how our defense would be dramatically upgraded with such a move, but at what cost?  22 million a year is HUGE money that could really effect the balance of this team right now.  Thoughts? 
    Posted by agill1970[/QUOTE]

    They need to go all in this offseason..PERIOD! Not sure that means signing Mario Williams for 22 mil BUT it means spending some money for someone somewhere. I don't want to hear all this whining about how "this guy cost too much" or 'that guy costs too much" If the Pats want to win a Championship with Brady then they need to spend NOW. If they don't, and they want to continue with the "plan for the future" approach then don't spend or draft high on the draft board. I say they may need to take the 2007 approach and surround Brady with offensive talent as well as getting some defensive support.,
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    I say they should try to get him, but not at all costs. Is this D significantly better than it was 5-6 years ago? If not, something ain't working.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]If they didn't spend it on Peppers they won't spend it on Williams
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    Don't know if they would or wouldn't but Peppers was 30 at the time I think. Williams is 27. A lil bit different, at least in that one respect.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Mario Williams as a Patriot??? : They need to go all in this offseason..PERIOD! Not sure that means signing Mario Williams for 22 mil BUT it means spending some money for someone somewhere. I don't want to hear all this whining about how "this guy cost too much" or 'that guy costs too much" If the Pats want to win a Championship with Brady then they need to spend NOW. If they don't, and they want to continue with the "plan for the future" approach then don't spend or draft high on the draft board. I say they may need to take the 2007 approach and surround Brady with offensive talent as well as getting some defensive support.,
    Posted by smorgan86[/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%, however I'm sure they'll say in their meetings that they made it all the way to the Super Bowl without spending money - people came to the games and we had nationally televised games. Most people realize they didn't make it to the Super Bowl because of fiscal responsibility or a value approach to team building, but because they made it there, they bought themselves another year of being fiscal. I imagine this will continue until Brady retires - they start to lose and people stop caring.  

    It's a shame really, because you can't tell me we wouldn't have had one more title if we had spent to the cap or not of been so concerned with "labor uncertainty" that was supposed to send the NFL into some state of shock (which never came close to happening).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mario Williams as a Patriot??? : I agree 100%, however I'm sure they'll say in their meetings that they made it all the way to the Super Bowl without spending money - people came to the games and we had nationally televised games. Most people realize they didn't make it to the Super Bowl because of fiscal responsibility or a value approach to team building, but because they made it there, they bought themselves another year of being fiscal. I imagine this will continue until Brady retires - they start to lose and people stop caring.   It's a shame really, because you can't tell me we wouldn't have had one more title if we had spent to the cap or not of been so concerned with "labor uncertainty" that was supposed to send the NFL into some state of shock (which never came close to happening).
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]
    I believe teams will have to spend closer to the cap per the new CBA.  We actually usually spend pretty close to the cap but always allow a couple of mil, this year I think it was $6MM to be flexible.  Our 2012 cap is down at the moment because of a bunch of expiring contracts, Welker, Faulk, Koppen, Connolly, BJGE, Ellis, Carter, Anderson etc.

    As for Williams.  If you look at the free agents soon to be on the market, he is probably the biggest name on defense with Drew Brees the biggest name on offense.
     

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