Mario Williams could end up in New England

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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    Wow, you're all ridiculous... Fans like you don't deserve Brady and Belichick. Care to explain how the "gunslinger-who-should-be-reined in/traded" was one or two plays away from leading THE WORST D IN NFL HISTORY to a Super Bowl Championship?? His Fourth? Who would you trade him for? Montana? Ridiculously stupid...Wait til this era is over, when you can have your "ground-pound" running game and pray to make the playoffs like the majority of the league.
     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    Also, you do realize that when Brady was "reined in" by Weiss, those three Super Bowls were also one or two plays from losses? Its not like they blew teams out back then. The ball bounced their way, and they were heroes. If Welker made that catch, and Manningham didn't, it would be the same story.
     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England:
    [QUOTE]Mass. How long have you had season tickets?  Also, did you like it when we won SBs when Brady was reined in under Weis, or do you prefer losing SBs when he's not? If you were living in New England before I was born, this means, you're probably in yur 40s, maybe 50s or 60s, yet you talk like a teenage kid more impressed with fantasy stats than understanding basic football concepts. Very, very odd.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]


    Brady wasn't "reined in" under Weis.  In fact, the year under Belichick's tenure that our pass to run ratio was highest was in 2003.  We ran more in 2004 when we had Dillon.  The pass-run ratio varies with the quality of the QB, the running backs, and the receivers.  It's not just a matter of "ideology."  

    Been a season ticket holder for about 5 years . . . on the waiting list about 10 years before then.  Got on the list soon after I moved back to Boston in the mid 90s. 

    And what's this creepy obsession you have with everyone's age?  


     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England


    Here are the pass-run ratios for all of Belichick's seasons with the Pats, arranged in order from highest passing percentage to lowest.  Does it surprise anyone that 2003 has the highest passing percentage?  
      

    year passing att per game rushing att per game total (pass and rush) att per game Pass % Run %
               
    2003 38.6 25.1 63.7 60.6% 39.4%
    2011 38.7 25.3 64.0 60.5% 39.5%
    2010 38.2 25.6 63.8 59.9% 40.1%
    2007 32.9 22.5 55.4 59.4% 40.6%
    2006 32.4 24.2 56.6 57.2% 42.8%
    2004 33.6 25.3 58.9 57.0% 43.0%
    2009 32.0 24.9 56.9 56.2% 43.8%
    2001 34.1 26.8 60.9 56.0% 44.0%
    2005 32.9 27.3 60.2 54.7% 45.3%
    2008 29.6 25.9 55.5 53.3% 46.7%
    2002 33.2 29.2 62.4 53.2% 46.8%
    2000 34.0 30.9 64.9 52.4% 47.6%
     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England:
    [QUOTE]I like to know who I am talking to. If it's some teenage kid or under-developed adult living in mommy's basement, I like to know.  That's all. It's not creepy whatsoever. I like to confirm my educated guesses of just exactly who it is I am talking to here. FOr example, I had you pegged as a bandwagon type fan and I was right. You only signed up for season tickets AFTER NE won a SB.  I have been trudging to Foxborough since the early/mid 1980s. A fan is a fan, but you have quite the nerve talking down to fans who know more about the game than you do. You just contradicted youself again, too. You just said the rushing attempts go up when the name like "Dillon" is on the back of the jersey.  That's patently false.  Antowain Smith had 26 carries in SB 38 for over 100 yards.  Why? Because we needed to run the ball to win. It's called situational football.  If you had your way, you'd drop Brady back in the shotgun even more than he already does. There's no help for people like you.  You'd hire Mike Martz if you could.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]


    Bandwagon fan?  I live in freakin' Toronto and still buy season tickets and come to the games. I've been going to the games ever since I moved back to Boston in the mid 90s (before I got my own tickets I went with friends or purchased them from Ace), and I'm still going now that I live in another country! 

    You could do the same down there in North Carolina or Georgia or wherever you live, but you don't for some reason.  Guess you're not such the uber fan you'd like others to think, little boy.

    I'm amazed, too, at how little you really know about football. It's been a terrible tragedy really that you were dragged to football games for all those years and nothing at all sunk in.  Sad for your aunts and uncles wasting their money on tickets for you.  Sad for you, remaining so blind to everything going on about you. Is there a place where we can send donations for whatever condition it is you have?  Really, I'm a generous sort and your condition just tugs at my heart strings.  Where can I give?













     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England:
    [QUOTE]As for 2003, one main reason for that is because NE employed new WRs with Branch and Givens.  Also, I believe it was 2003 when A. Smith came into camp out of shape, etc.  Again, BJGE is a better player than what Smith was. Brady had it easier now than he did in 2003. A year earlier, NE tried to reinvent its offense by signing Donald Hayes and bringing in Fauria, a pass catching TE.  Fauria was a good add, but Hayes failed. Again, as imbalanced as 2003's pass/run ratio is, it doesn't change the idea that Weis would call games for whatever the situation was. This what you don't get. Weis's ways worked.  O'Briens did not. Also, NE's offense was far from finesse in that style of offense. Weis would use screens and was far more creative when structuring his playcalling.  It's not even close. You're the beancounter at GM, that shows the numbers to the board of directors while everyone else is buying Toyotas, Honda and Nissans. They don't get it, you don't get it.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]


    So now that you see the statistics aren't what you thought they were, you're going to start back-tracking talking about situations.  So that gets me back to an earlier question I asked you.  In the Super Bowl, exactly where would you have changed particular play calls?  No generalities oh great and transcendent football genius.  Go through the drives play by play and tell us what you would have called specifically and how it differs from what the great incompetents who lead the Patriots called. Show us exactly where O'Brien or Brady or Belichick messed up. 

    Yeah and Weis called lots of passes in 2003 because Antowain Smith's stats were kind of like BJGE's.  And the receivers were really a pretty good and diverse group.  Wish we had that kind of diversity today.  Plus Faulk was huge in 2003.  

    Here's your offense then:

    Rushing
    PLAYERATTYDSYDS/ATTLONGTD
    Antowain Smith1826423.5303
    Kevin Faulk1786383.6230
    Tom Brady42631.5111
    Mike Cloud271184.4425
    Larry Centers21823.9130
    Troy Brown6274.5110
    Patrick Pass6274.5110
    Fred McCrary331.040
    Dan Klecko252.550
    Ken Walter200.000
    Deion Branch11111.0110
    Damon Huard1-1-1.0-10
    Bethel Johnson1-12-12.0-120
    David Patten144.040
    Receiving
    PLAYERRECYDSYDS/RECLONGTD
    Deion Branch5780314.1663
    Kevin Faulk484409.2270
    Troy Brown4047211.8824
    Daniel Graham3840910.8384
    David Givens3451015.0576
    Christian Fauria2828510.2282
    Larry Centers191065.6141
    Bethel Johnson1620913.1452
    Antowain Smith14926.6160
    David Patten914015.6420
    Dedric Ward710615.1311
    Patrick Pass4215.3110
    Fred McCrary2126.090
    J.J. Stokes23819.0310
    Joe Andruzzi100.000
    Mike Cloud188.080

     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England


    Just for kicks, here are the same stats for this year.  
    Rushing
    PLAYERATTYDSYDS/ATTLONGTD
    BenJarvus Green-Ellis1816673.71811
    Stevan Ridley874415.1331
    Danny Woodhead773514.6121
    Tom Brady431092.5133
    Kevin Faulk17573.490
    Shane Vereen15573.8191
    Aaron Hernandez5459.0190
    Julian Edelman482.060
    Brian Hoyer4-3-0.800
    Wes Welker4307.5190
    Rob Gronkowski122.021
    Receiving
    PLAYERRECYDSYDS/RECLONGTD
    Wes Welker1221,56912.9999
    Rob Gronkowski901,32714.75217
    Aaron Hernandez7991011.5467
    Deion Branch5170213.8635
    Danny Woodhead181578.7160
    Chad Ochocinco1527618.4531
    BenJarvus Green-Ellis915917.7530
    Kevin Faulk7344.9180
    Julian Edelman4348.5110
    Stevan Ridley3134.380
    Tiquan Underwood33010.0130
    Matthew Slater14646.0460
     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England


    Well, yes, Mr Statistical Wizard, averages tend to blur detail.  But you are the master of broad generalizations, so it's kind of silly to be criticizing others--who at least present some facts and statistics--for not being detailed enough!  You constantly make generalizations not just from one game but from one (often weakly recalled) play!  If you want to make arguments that look at the details of individual games, all the power to you.  That's the best way to understand what's happening.  But prepare to spend a few months doing the research.  You'll need to look through the play-by-plays of 12 years' worth of games and come up with the best mathematical models for analyzing what's happening.  You apparently aren't all that busy at work most days, so maybe you can do that.  Again, all the power to you.  We'll wait for your dissertation.  Maybe someone will even give you a degree. Heck, maybe you can get a job in the basement of Gillette analyzing film for Belichick. Then you can tell him about all his mistakes directly.  


     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    Prolate, I think you misread his last post. Since you're not really a fan and have just started following the pats after they won three super bowls your opinion doesn't really count. You're lucky he's replying at all. I mean, statistics are for losers, right? I say this even though it's clear the pats use stats on average much more than other teams. It's not like BB said there was a 90% chance the giants were going to kick a FG successfully (and therefore wanted the giants to score). No way they look at stats like that to run his football team.

    Now that Rusty has properly put you in your place you should know the answer to everything is to run the ball with BJGE for 3.2 yard per carry average. Odds indicate the team will get a first down every other series.

    And rusty, before you sling insults my way: I actually did graduate with a bachelors degree and a MBA. I watched the pats since I was in diapers when Hugh Millen was QB. I met Dick Macpherson before a pre-season game. I'm sure there's plenty more left to criticize so go at it!



    In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England:
    [QUOTE]Well, yes, Mr Statistical Wizard, averages tend to blur detail.  But you are the master of broad generalizations, so it's kind of silly to be criticizing others--who at least present some facts and statistics--for not being detailed enough!  You constantly make generalizations not just from one game but from one (often weakly recalled) play!  If you want to make arguments that look at the details of individual games, all the power to you.  That's the best way to understand what's happening.  But prepare to spend a few months doing the research.  You'll need to look through the play-by-plays of 12 years' worth of games and come up with the best mathematical models for analyzing what's happening.  You apparently aren't all that busy at work most days, so maybe you can do that.  Again, all the power to you.  We'll wait for your dissertation.  Maybe someone will even give you a degree. Heck, maybe you can get a job in the basement of Gillette analyzing film for Belichick. Then you can tell him about all his mistakes directly.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England:
    [QUOTE]Prolate, I think you misread his last post. Since you're not really a fan and have just started following the pats after they won three super bowls your opinion doesn't really count. You're lucky he's replying at all. I mean, statistics are for losers, right? I say this even though it's clear the pats use stats on average much more than other teams. It's not like BB said there was a 90% chance the giants were going to kick a FG successfully (and therefore wanted the giants to score). No way they look at stats like that to run his football team. Now that Rusty has properly put you in your place you should know the answer to everything is to run the ball with BJGE for 3.2 yard per carry average. Odds indicate the team will get a first down every other series. And rusty, before you sling insults my way: I actually did graduate with a bachelors degree and a MBA. I watched the pats since I was in diapers when Hugh Millen was QB. I met Dick Macpherson before a pre-season game. I'm sure there's plenty more left to criticize so go at it! In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    You're right Rock.  The almighty font of football wisdom hath spoken and who am I to question his omniscience . . . 

    Oh wait . . . I was mistaken . . . it seems that gurgling sound I hear is just the toilet overflowing . . . 



     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    CB Stanford Routt joins Chiefs

    ESPN.com
    Archive

    In an effort to improve their man-to-man coverage ability, the Kansas City Chiefs reached agreement with former Oakland Raiders cornerback Stanford Routt, the team announced Monday.


    Routt will receive $6.5 million in guarantees and will make $11 million this season as part of a three-year deal, a source said. The Raiders released him from a three-year, $31.5 million deal after the season that paid him $10 million in 2011.

     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    And Russ, not to be too harsh here but it's okay if people disagree with your opinions. It should be about discussions and not name calling. You may be right or wrong, but it's not fun to go on a board and feel like you're about to be attacked if you say something contrary to what you believe.
     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England:
    [QUOTE]Also, you do realize that when Brady was "reined in" by Weiss, those three Super Bowls were also one or two plays from losses? Its not like they blew teams out back then. The ball bounced their way, and they were heroes. If Welker made that catch, and Manningham didn't, it would be the same story.
    Posted by Zchowdary[/QUOTE]

    Yes, but they won because Brady made intelligent measured throws. He scanned the field and threw to the OPEN receiver. He wasn't trying to force the ball in to two guys and ignoring everyone else. The thing that made Brady special (besides Weiss) was his intelligence. That guy has been replaced by a player that plays reckless football. Remember Drew? Bledsoe was and always will be more physically talented than Tom Brady. But nobody in their right mind would say Bledsoe was a better QB. What separated the two was Tom's superior football IQ and work ethic. And I don't know if his work ethic has changed, but he is definitely playing a much less cerebral game.

    I'm sorry but if Brady were playing the way he's playing now in the three Superbowls he won this team would still be winless in the big game.

    I'm not saying all the blame falls on Brady. But until they fix that problem, I don't think it matters what else they do.

    The more frightening thing is your example: Welker dropping the pass that probably would have sealed the game. These losses come down to one or two plays. Like the Caldwell drop in 06 that cost a playoff game to the Colts. That was essentially the Superbowl because the winner got to play a CFL team from Chicago for the title. I don't have a problem with Reche the way some people do. Because he won the Chargers game for us the week earlier. And the Samuel game winning drop in the 07 Superbowl. And years later we find out from Rodney Harrison that the helmet catch was a result of Samuel being out of position and gambling. Note that Rodney is too classy to call out refs for the 3 or 4 blatant holding call on the Giants O-Line on that play.

    The point is, those teams had playmakers. Ty Law would have held on to that ball. Troy Brown would have held on to the Reche and Welker drops. We had guys like MCGinest Bruschi and Vrabel. And guys that just always seemed to be able to make a play when it mattered.

    I'm glad this defense was starting to gain more discipline and consistency. But you have to have is a player or two that you can count on to come up with big play. And they just don't have that. That's not something you can fix with coaching. Even on offensive. Show me the back you can count on for a big first down the way you could with Smith or Dillon. Or the reciever that's going to catch a key first down (when it matters- not in October) or slip behind a defense to gash them for 30 yards and drive the nail in the coffin. Now we have guys like Gronk who don't even mind losing. Tom Brady used to be that guy but now he's too busy fixating on one or two guys.

    And to the guy that asked if I would rather go back to the days of Rod Rust? Yes. In a twisted way. A 2-14 season would be a lot easier to take than what happened Feb 5. I started watching the Pats in 1991. I saw a lot of losing. It sucked. But it never hurt nearly as much as watching them gag in Denver or against the Giants twice.

    But that's a straw man anyway. It's not an either or argument. I'm just tired of being average. Mediocrity is a very difficult thing to escape in a salary cap league. In a lot of ways it's worse than being awful.

    The most frustrating thing is that it's not any one thing. But it starts at the top. Bill is probably still arrogant enough to think he can coach up fourth round players.Even though his track record clearly indicates otherwise. The Pats need to change what they are doing. They need to stay put or trade up in  this year's draft and get some desperately needed talent on defense and pickup a WR. The guys the have now are just not getting open consistently enough. They can't continue to build their entire passing game around a midget and two tight ends. And maybe it's time to move away from such a complex offense. When a 10 plus year vet comes in and can't grasp your offense, maybe it's time to tone it down. A timing offense is too easy for a good psychical defense to slow down. And it's something you utilize when the same group of players have been in place for a while. Not when you are constantly shuffling players in and out.

    Like I said, it's not any one thing. But it needs to start with Bill not wasting draft picks and Brady getting back to his roots. 
     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England : Yes, but they won because Brady made intelligent measured throws. He scanned the field and threw to the OPEN receiver. He wasn't trying to force the ball in to two guys and ignoring everyone else. The thing that made Brady special (besides Weiss) was his intelligence. That guy has been replaced by a player that plays reckless football. Remember Drew? Bledsoe was and always will be more physically talented than Tom Brady. But nobody in their right mind would say Bledsoe was a better QB. What separated the two was Tom's superior football IQ and work ethic. And I don't know if his work ethic has changed, but he is definitely playing a much less cerebral game. I'm sorry but if Brady were playing the way he's playing now in the three Superbowls he won this team would still be winless in the big game. I'm not saying all the blame falls on Brady. But until they fix that problem, I don't think it matters what else they do. The more frightening thing is your example: Welker dropping the pass that probably would have sealed the game. These losses come down to one or two plays. Like the Caldwell drop in 06 that cost a playoff game to the Colts. That was essentially the Superbowl because the winner got to play a CFL team from Chicago for the title. I don't have a problem with Reche the way some people do. Because he won the Chargers game for us the week earlier. And the Samuel game winning drop in the 07 Superbowl. And years later we find out from Rodney Harrison that the helmet catch was a result of Samuel being out of position and gambling. Note that Rodney is too classy to call out refs for the 3 or 4 blatant holding call on the Giants O-Line on that play. The point is, those teams had playmakers. Ty Law would have held on to that ball. Troy Brown would have held on to the Reche and Welker drops. We had guys like MCGinest Bruschi and Vrabel. And guys that just always seemed to be able to make a play when it mattered. I'm glad this defense was starting to gain more discipline and consistency. But you have to have is a player or two that you can count on to come up with big play. And they just don't have that. That's not something you can fix with coaching. Even on offensive. Show me the back you can count on for a big first down the way you could with Smith or Dillon. Or the reciever that's going to catch a key first down (when it matters- not in October) or slip behind a defense to gash them for 30 yards and drive the nail in the coffin. Now we have guys like Gronk who don't even mind losing. Tom Brady used to be that guy but now he's too busy fixating on one or two guys. And to the guy that asked if I would rather go back to the days of Rod Rust? Yes. In a twisted way. A 2-14 season would be a lot easier to take than what happened Feb 5. I started watching the Pats in 1991. I saw a lot of losing. It sucked. But it never hurt nearly as much as watching them gag in Denver or against the Giants twice. But that's a straw man anyway. It's not an either or argument. I'm just tired of being average. Mediocrity is a very difficult thing to escape in a salary cap league. In a lot of ways it's worse than being awful. The most frustrating thing is that it's not any one thing. But it starts at the top. Bill is probably still arrogant enough to think he can coach up fourth round players.Even though his track record clearly indicates otherwise. The Pats need to change what they are doing. They need to stay put or trade up in  this year's draft and get some desperately needed talent on defense and pickup a WR. The guys the have now are just not getting open consistently enough. They can't continue to build their entire passing game around a midget and two tight ends. And maybe it's time to move away from such a complex offense. When a 10 plus year vet comes in and can't grasp your offense, maybe it's time to tone it down. A timing offense is too easy for a good psychical defense to slow down. And it's something you utilize when the same group of players have been in place for a while. Not when you are constantly shuffling players in and out. Like I said, it's not any one thing. But it needs to start with Bill not wasting draft picks and Brady getting back to his roots. 
    Posted by df5[/QUOTE]

    Look sir, I respect your opinion and it actually sounds pretty sad the way you are talking (typing?). But I think you need to seriously chill the hell out. The way you and Mr. Rusty talk, it sounds as if the Patriots are the Browns. They are the FREAKIN NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS, the envy of 31 NFL cities. Yeah, even New York. Because the Giants may or may not be contenders next year. But everyone knows not to count the Pats out. When every little kid dreams of his team winning the Super Bowl, who does he imagine them beating? Yes, right now, every non-Pats fan hates New England and Brady and Belicheck. But after this era is over, mark my words these Patriots will forever be remebered as one of the greatest sports orginizations ever. Tom Brady will go down, no matter what happens now, as one of the greatest to ever throw the ball. And Bill Belichick will go down as one of the greatest coaches ever. The 2001-2004 New England Dynasty will be the last dynasty in the NFL EVER. 

    If you people would step outside your perspective, you would realize this. The above paragraph is how the rest of the world sees the Patriots. No offense, but how dare you call them "average"? How dare you call 5 SB appearance in 10 years, 3 Championships, and an overall incredible decade of New England football "average"? How can you say a 5k+ yards,39 touchdowns, and a catch away from yet another ring-Quarterback not intelligent? You say Brady is not as smart as he was in the early Superbowls? Try 16 consecutive completions, a Super Bowl record. Does that stat not imply a high level of intellegence and accuracy? We all know after Tuck took him down he was not the same. But if we won, this might've been his best Super Bowl performance of the 5.

     Again, i respect your opinion, but I sure as hell don't agree with it.

     
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    Re: Mario Williams could end up in New England

    TB cannot throw the deep ball anymore and is afraid to run.  We need to pound the rock.  Law Firm, Ridley and co need 30*35 carries a game next year so inthe playoffs we can control time of possession and win the key games.
     

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