Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    "They could have stretched it to 5 in 7 with a good '06 draft, I am convinced of this."

    You know what - you gotta let it go. Sports is full of unpredictability and human error, that's why we love it, that's also why it's frustrating sometimes. I was excited about the Maroney pick that year and he did show some flashes.

    You're not wrong in that we had a rough draft that year, but for you to automatically correlate a better draft that year with championships just doesn't wash and does a disservice to our opponents who also fought hard to overcome their own human errors and claim a championship or two.

    We also obtained Moss and Welker, two players other teams either missed or underestimated. Those acquisitions are part of a totality of what you can judge. 

    It's frustrating to lose but clicking your heels together won't change that. Why not focus on the promise of this season?


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]I'm guessing you were one the the idiots complaining after this draft that thought McCourty was a waste and only a special teams player, Gronkowski had a bad back and probably won't play, Spikes is too slow, why the hell are they taking another TE (a pothead at that)? Every year we hear the same crap.    - Why did they take Defensive end Seymore when we could have gotten a dynamic player like David Terrell?   - Logan Mankins?? Who is he??  They could have gotten him in the 4th round!   - What a wasted opportunity by trading down to pick 10 to get Mayo.  They should have traded up to get Gholston
    Posted by fessin[/QUOTE]

    I wanted Odrick over McCourty

    But that would have been with the 1st pick we had. I was really unhappy we traded away again when Odrick was there, he'd have filled Seymour's shoes and now that Warren went down, been even more help

    I also saw the extreme need for secondary help, I see Butler as a great nickel guy, Wilhite as a 4th CB and Wheatley as a bust (should have taken Jamaal Charles!). As a UConn season ticket holder I really liked McCourty, he was a great move, even better with Bodden out.

    I wanted to trade the Cunningham pick for Bouldin. This was when Welker was supposed to be on the 6 week PUP and moss said it was to be his last year.

    I LOVED the Gronkowski and Spikes picks. LOVED them.

    I wanted Spikes over Maualuga last year and was annoyed he went back to school. Then I was annoyed we didn't just extend Wilfork asap and take Maualuga over Brace. But in the end Spikes dropped and was great value. LOVED it.

    However, after we lucked out with 2nd/3rd rd talent in Hernadez in the 4th, I would have rather we just kept Ben Watson and taken Sergio Kindle over Gronk. Now it looks like I was wrong. Poor Kindle had a skull injury and Gronk may become a top 5 TE in the league over the next few years.

    what I really wanted tho was to trade up w/ that 3rd rd pick, leapfrog Miami and get Koa Misi, who just looked nasty and blowing people up everytime I watched him.

    If we had taken Kindle and used the 3rd, it would not be needed for a WR b/c Bouldin was here, so instead of Price i'd have take Everson Griffen, had him as a project behind Warren, situational pass rusher future Willie Mac/Vrabel hopefully.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In short, this would have been my 2010 draft, is it still hindsight 20/20 when I am being 100% honest???

    1 - Future trade (bad) - Odrick (my choice)
    1 - McCourty (Great, loved it)
    2 - Gronk (great) - Watson (resigned)/Kindle and Griffen OR Koa Misi (my choices, who knows what would have made us better yet)
    2 - Cunningham (blah) - Bouldin trade (my choice)
    2 - Spikes (Great, loved it)
    3 - Price (blah) - Trade up or Griffen (my choices)
    4 - Hernadez (great, loved it)
    4 - Zoltan (sure why not, wld be the Gronkowski of punters)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]" They could have stretched it to 5 in 7 with a good '06 draft, I am convinced of this." You know what - you gotta let it go. Sports is full of unpredictability and human error, that's why we love it, that's also why it's frustrating sometimes. I was excited about the Maroney pick that year and he did show some flashes. You're not wrong in that we had a rough draft that year, but for you to automatically correlate a better draft that year with championships just doesn't wash and does a disservice to our opponents who also fought hard to overcome their own human errors and claim a championship or two. We also obtained Moss and Welker, two players other teams either missed or underestimated. Those acquisitions are part of a totality of what you can judge.  It's frustrating to lose but clicking your heels together won't change that. Why not focus on the promise of this season?
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    You are right

    I just did my Randy Moss rant and now gorra let it go

    It hurt watching Indy take what they did not deserve possibly b/c of poor drafting.

    But it hurt more to watch Kobe win titles b/c KG was hurt and Ainge didn't keep Posey.

    Ah well.

    Yes you gottta move on. Been blessed this decade with 7 titles from my 4 teams... it is hard for me not to have the gears start clikcing and imagine how 6 should be 11. 12 if you include the selfish underachieving bums (Rudy Gay, Josh Boone, Marcus Williams) on the '06 UConn bball team that lost to George Mason.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    So I guess the thread isn't about a collapse of the dynasty, but a changing of the guard.  Regardless of whether or not we should have taken other players, our last 2 drafts have been nothing short of stellar.  There will never be a draft for any team where you cannot say "you passed on this guy and look at him now".
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]So I guess the thread isn't about a collapse of the dynasty, but a changing of the guard.  Regardless of whether or not we should have taken other players, our last 2 drafts have been nothing short of stellar.  There will never be a draft for any team where you cannot say "you passed on this guy and look at him now".
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    right and next years draft should eb incredible as well

    For once I want BB to use the 4th, 5th and 6th rd picks to move UP in the 1st and 2nd and get 5 impact players and at least 3 STARS and have them all arrive together...

    no more passing on Odrick or Clay Matthews to get a future 1st rd pick... despite how great th last 2 drafts have been we could have BOTH those guys and simply not have Brace, McKenzie and a future #2.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]" They could have stretched it to 5 in 7 with a good '06 draft, I am convinced of this." You know what - you gotta let it go. Sports is full of unpredictability and human error, that's why we love it, that's also why it's frustrating sometimes. I was excited about the Maroney pick that year and he did show some flashes. You're not wrong in that we had a rough draft that year, but for you to automatically correlate a better draft that year with championships just doesn't wash and does a disservice to our opponents who also fought hard to overcome their own human errors and claim a championship or two. We also obtained Moss and Welker, two players other teams either missed or underestimated. Those acquisitions are part of a totality of what you can judge.  It's frustrating to lose but clicking your heels together won't change that. Why not focus on the promise of this season?
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    Seriously.  The most important draft pick for winning a championship is LUCK.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsNut5480. Show PatsNut5480's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    There is no question they have missed horribly on a couple of drafts specifically the Maroney draft but to say it's the collapse of the Patriots is wrong.  Yes they are in a re-tooling mode right now but most teams take a serious nose dive when they re-tool.  2007 they make the super bowl, 2008 they go 11-5 and by some freak occurance miss the playoffs, 2009 win division lose in first round.  That's not bad for a team that's retooling.  I'm not expecting a super bowl this year but I am very happy with the drafts the last 2 years.  With this upcoming draft it will only get better.  Every team misses on draft picks it is unavoidable.  Yes the Chad Jackson looks very bad and I was cringing when they made that pick but I had no clue who Greg Jennings was or what he was going to be.  At least Maroney did contribute some and gave us some good games. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoPinkHatPatsFans. Show NoPinkHatPatsFans's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]I don't care if we went 18-1 in '07... The '06 draft was hideous, as were the decisions that offseason DeAngelo Williams was the perfect back for us... We still had 1 year of Dillon, Williams was lightning quick, Dillon the pounder... Faulk the reciever and all everything guy... perfect Williams over Maroney would have been awesome
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Says the guy with a Pierce avatar where Ainge or whomever else hadn't had a good draft in over a decade.

    2006 was a bad one, but 2007 more than made up for it.  That Dynasty ended with SB 42.

    2009 and 2010 drafts look great and 2011 is yet to come. Wake up.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoPinkHatPatsFans. Show NoPinkHatPatsFans's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse : I wanted Odrick over McCourty But that would have been with the 1st pick we had. I was really unhappy we traded away again when Odrick was there, he'd have filled Seymour's shoes and now that Warren went down, been even more help I also saw the extreme need for secondary help, I see Butler as a great nickel guy, Wilhite as a 4th CB and Wheatley as a bust (should have taken Jamaal Charles!). As a UConn season ticket holder I really liked McCourty, he was a great move, even better with Bodden out. I wanted to trade the Cunningham pick for Bouldin. This was when Welker was supposed to be on the 6 week PUP and moss said it was to be his last year. I LOVED the Gronkowski and Spikes picks. LOVED them. I wanted Spikes over Maualuga last year and was annoyed he went back to school. Then I was annoyed we didn't just extend Wilfork asap and take Maualuga over Brace. But in the end Spikes dropped and was great value. LOVED it. However, after we lucked out with 2nd/3rd rd talent in Hernadez in the 4th, I would have rather we just kept Ben Watson and taken Sergio Kindle over Gronk. Now it looks like I was wrong. Poor Kindle had a skull injury and Gronk may become a top 5 TE in the league over the next few years. what I really wanted tho was to trade up w/ that 3rd rd pick, leapfrog Miami and get Koa Misi, who just looked nasty and blowing people up everytime I watched him. If we had taken Kindle and used the 3rd, it would not be needed for a WR b/c Bouldin was here, so instead of Price i'd have take Everson Griffen, had him as a project behind Warren, situational pass rusherfuture Willie Mac/Vrabel hopefully.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Odrick just went in for an MRI. And you aren' tbetter than BB, kid.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoPinkHatPatsFans. Show NoPinkHatPatsFans's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse : right and next years draft should eb incredible as well For once I want BB to use the 4th, 5th and 6th rd picks to move UP in the 1st and 2nd and get 5 impact players and at least 3 STARS and have them all arrive together... no more passing on Odrick or Clay Matthews to get a future 1st rd pick... despite how great th last 2 drafts have been we could have BOTH those guys and simply not have Brace, McKenzie and a future #2.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    And this is the difference between you and people with a brain and an education .

    In the deepest draft in 25 years, you trade DOWN not UP. Einstein.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoPinkHatPatsFans. Show NoPinkHatPatsFans's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]In short, this would have been my 2010 draft, is it still hindsight 20/20 when I am being 100% honest??? 1 - Future trade (bad) - Odrick (my choice) 1 - McCourty (Great, loved it) 2 - Gronk (great) - Watson (resigned)/Kindle and Griffen OR Koa Misi (my choices, who knows what would have made us better yet) 2 - Cunningham (blah) - Bouldin trade (my choice) 2 - Spikes (Great, loved it) 3 - Price (blah) - Trade up or Griffen (my choices) 4 - Hernadez (great, loved it) 4 - Zoltan (sure why not, wld be the Gronkowski of punters)
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Interesting how you say "blah" with players who aren't starting yet.  Good thing he took McCourty.  The Special Teams are vastly improved and will win them 3 games this year, outright, and Bodden went down.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]I don't care if we went 18-1 in '07... The '06 draft was hideous, as were the decisions that offseason DeAngelo Williams was the perfect back for us... We still had 1 year of Dillon, Williams was lightning quick, Dillon the pounder... Faulk the reciever and all everything guy... perfect Williams over Maroney would have been awesome
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    the dynasty will be over when bill and tom leave...  in past dynasties  championships spanned over years...  in this case some of the machine had to be retooled and now you are seeing the fruits of that labor... even if 06 was a bad year in the DRAFT... the draft is only one peice to team building...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse : right and next years draft should eb incredible as well For once I want BB to use the 4th, 5th and 6th rd picks to move UP in the 1st and 2nd and get 5 impact players and at least 3 STARS and have them all arrive together... no more passing on Odrick or Clay Matthews to get a future 1st rd pick... despite how great th last 2 drafts have been we could have BOTH those guys and simply not have Brace, McKenzie and a future #2.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]
    I'm not sure you can package any number of 4 5 and 6 round draft picks to get a first.  It's like saying how many Chevette's can I trade you for a Corvette?  there is no number of Chevette's worth a Corvette.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoPinkHatPatsFans. Show NoPinkHatPatsFans's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    He's too dumb. You are wasting your time.

    Update:  Jared Odrick out at least 6 weeks with a fractured fibula.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    Alright, rameakap, we get it - BB really soiled the sheets in '06.  I mean the guy clearly can't tie his shoes without help.  

    Your clear and insightful hindsight is of enormous value and is much appreciated by those of us mere mortals who mistakenly think that you can't always hit on a draft pick. We long to rise to your level of second-guessing intolerance.  

    Get a grip!  '06 happened and is over 4 years in the past (in case you've misplaced your calendar).  Your thread is a silly waste of space and having read through it, I regret that the time I spent in doing so is a part of my life I can't get back.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rabbrandy. Show rabbrandy's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    Who doesn't miss on players in the draft? Wasn't Jemarcus Russell the first pick overall in one of those drafts? Where is he?  

    How do the past two Patriots drafts look?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1023us. Show m1023us's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]Hindsight is always 20/20
    Posted by Wizardsjag[/QUOTE]

    Tell me about it....this www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=ba061b02c6a0fa4e524f7162211782c0&plckUserId=ba061b02c6a0fa4e524f7162211782c0" target="_parent">rameakap guy is either Felger or a Felger wanna be......boohoo we had a bad draft one year.....

    I will bet you he was drooling when we made our picks.....
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]I don't care if we went 18-1 in '07... The '06 draft was hideous, as were the decisions that offseason DeAngelo Williams was the perfect back for us... We still had 1 year of Dillon, Williams was lightning quick, Dillon the pounder... Faulk the reciever and all everything guy... perfect Williams over Maroney would have been awesome
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    I think the deeper question here is, "Why is this on your mind today?"
    I can't think of anybody else in the world that is walking around pondering the '06 draft. How about last years draft and this years draft which have produced serious starters. I'm not getting this at all.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse : I think the deeper question here is, "Why is this on your mind today?" I can't think of anybody else in the world that is walking around pondering the '06 draft. How about last years draft and this years draft which have produced serious starters. I'm not getting this at all.
    Posted by ewhite1065[/QUOTE]

    You nailed it!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from STP43FAN. Show STP43FAN's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    In Response to Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse:
    [QUOTE]I don't care if we went 18-1 in '07... The '06 draft was hideous, as were the decisions that offseason DeAngelo Williams was the perfect back for us... We still had 1 year of Dillon, Williams was lightning quick, Dillon the pounder... Faulk the reciever and all everything guy... perfect Williams over Maroney would have been awesome
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Would Williams have fit in this system?  Don't assume he would have.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from STP43FAN. Show STP43FAN's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    BTW, did ANY team in that 2006 draft really get a lot? 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    That 01-08 dynasty is over. We havent won a superbowl in 6 going on 7 years. It would be a great feat to make another one but this is a whole other decade right now. 

    Dominance as a team and a organization as a whole? That is still there but a dynasty that ended in 08 when Brady took a shot to his knee and the Pats missed the playoffs with an 11-5 record.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    I just read over at stampede blue that the Dolts have gotten rid of most of the players they drafted during that time span.

    I have to wonder how many of the players the person that started this thread wanted would fit the Pats style of football. I mean McCourty has already proven to be better than Odrick at cornerback, Spikes is much better than Kindle. Keeping stone hands Watson? Is he for real? Hernandez is 2nd/3rd round talent? I seem to recall he was 1st rnd talent but smoked a little ganja and dropped. Just like someone else said this guys gotta be Felger.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Maroney and terrible '06 draft was start of the dynasty collapse

    Every team has bad drafts--even teams that put together dynasties.

    2006 was really Belichick's only truly poor draft in New England.

    The others have ranged from average to very good. Yes, I am including the drafts, like 2004 and 2007, in which they only drafted maybe 1 quality player, but also used picks to acquire players in trades (Dillon, Moss, Welker)--you can't grade an entire draft based only on the college players selected.

    To expect a team to have a good or great draft every year in incredibly unrealistic.

    There really have been four "dynasties" in the NFL since the post-merger Super Bowl era got started in 1970 (three or more Super Bowl wins in less than 10 years): Pittsburgh in the 70s; San Francisco in the 80s; Dallas in the 90s; and New England in the early 2000s.

    Of those four dynasties, the Steelers had average-to-good drafts from 1969-73 and one legendary (4 hall of famers) draft in '74. After that, their drafts were just OK, but they did manage to find some helpful players in the draft after '74 which helped augment the stars that were already on the team (their final Super Bowl team in the 70s, 1979, actually had to rely on a lot of backups because of injury issues that year). But all in all, after they hit four homeruns with Swann, Stallworth, Lambert and Webster in '74, their drafts were about average.

    The 49ers had two great drafts under Bill Walsh (1981, 1986), but otherwise they drafted just about the same way the Pats have drafted under Belichick: hit on some picks (Jerry Rice in '85, Roger Craig in '83, Harris Barton in '87, Bill Romanowski in '88), and miss on many others.

    One of the great myths about the Dallas dynasty of the 90s is that Jimmy Johnson nailed all of his drafts. This is not true. He had a great draft in 1991 and a very good one in 1992, but otherwise, his 1989, 1990 and 1993 drafts were similar to Belichick's: hit on some picks (Aikman in '89; Emmitt Smith in '90; and some useful special teamers/backups in '93) and miss on many others.

    Belichick's drafts, by and large, have followed a similar pattern.

    He hit on Brady in 2000, but missed on just about everyone else

    He hit it big with Seymour and Light in 2001, but can you name anyone else they drafted that year?

    In 2002, Graham was the first rounder, and he disappointed, but other picks like Jarvis Green, Deion Branch and David Givens made up for it.

    2003 probably was his best one, with Warren, the now-forgotten but very productive for a time Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Koppen, and even Bethel Johnson helped them win some games on special teams.

    In 2004 he hit it big on Wilfork, had a so-so pick in Watson, and traded the #2 pick for Corey Dillon--not a great haul, but not a bad one.

    In 2005 he had a good draft: two starting offensive lineman on one of the greatest regular season offenses in history (Mankins, Kaczur), a safety who is still with the team (Sanders), a corner who was maligned, but decent, and who was also a great special teamer (Hobbs), a 7th rounder (Cassel) who helped guide them to an 11-5 record one year and then was flipped for a 2nd rounder the following spring, and a very good UFA signing in Mike Wright.

    2006--bad draft, no question about it. But as I've pointed out, all teams have bad ones, even the dynasty teams, and this was really the only truly poor draft that BB has had here.

    2007--Merriweather, Moss and Welker (you can't just ignore the fact that 2 of their top 4 picks were used to acquire those two receivers).

    2008--Mayo is a keeper, obviously, and Willhite, Slater, Crable and Wheatley are still hanging around (Willhite looked pretty good on Sunday, actually). Again, not a great draft, but similar to the types of drafts that the other "dynasty" teams had most of the time. Hit on some, miss on most others.

    2009 and 2010--the jury is still out, but the potential verdict is becoming clearer, and it looks like it's going to be a good verdict. Lots of players still on the roster and many of them are playing key roles and contributing.

    The fact is that no dynasty lasts forever. The 49ers, because they had a great draft in '86 (with no first round pick, by the way), 5 years after their great, dynasty-making draft in '81, were able to push their dominance all the way through the end of the 80s after it appeared that their run was over (three months before that great '86 draft they had lost a playoff game to the Giants, 49-3).

    Let's face it, would this thread even have been started if Samuel holds onto the ball that Eli threw right into his hands early in that Giants' Super Bowl-winning drive?

    I don't think so.
     

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