Mayo Overrated??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    Jay,

    Could it be that the two best linebackers on the team are Mayo and Spikes? Mayo CAN play outside but Spikes is too much of a liability out there? Therefore to get your two best backers on the field at the same time Mayo has to play outside?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    Mayo is a great leader of this defense. In that aspect, he is not overrated to the team. As far as playmaking goes, Mayo doesn't do a whole lot of that.

    He's a sure tackler and a solid run defender, but he isn't a game-changing linebacker. He's more of a London Fletcher than a Ray Lewis. If you were expecting him to be Ray Lewis, then yeah he's overrated, but I actually think Bill really likes the type of player Mayo is.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    Rt, i agree with that and exactly what i thought until last night when i saw Guyton in the middle. We all know his forte is coverage and he isnt as stout.

    He actually played weak and strong but never inside.  Like I said, at this point, I either feel they dont want him in there messing up the knee again and therefore keep him outside and away from falling lineman or B.B. really knows that outside is his best position and is just keeping him there until he gets it. I just feel he isnt being utilized the best. B.B. at the beginning of the year said "I am not looking to move mayo anywhere, he is one of the best at what he does"  but he has moved him. Maybe not outside the tackle box, but he isnt inside.

    Something is up and we just wont know about it till later I think.


    I also think moves like letting J.Sanders go were not supported By B.B.  I just cant believe he would leave himself thin like that.  after seeing the shrewd J.Kraft in the room making financial moves and B.B. just sitting watching, silent, It tells me the moves we scratch our heads about arent always B.B. moves. He is the G.M. but he aint dishing out the cash and i could see a guy like Kraft saying "we are not gonna pay Sanders that 2.2 mill, you can develop one of the younger guys"  and B.B. has tried his best, but He had to have wanted to keep sanders.


    This is why I think as good as mayo has been , he wont get paid here. Kraft isnt gonna care about leadership, etc


    Remember the last great guy we had in there*Teddy B) negotiated his own contracts w/ no agent and I believe his deal was in the single digits and the last one was a 2 year ext. for 3.4 million. We better hope Mayo also doesnt like agents.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    He's better on the outside, keep Spikes on the inside. Guyton is the biggest problem, too slow and too weak for MLB. 

    He's too slow in man-coveragw, too dense in zone coverage. Dude also can't tackle a RB to save his life. 

    Spikes, Mayo and Nink the Dink should be our starting LBs. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

     His being overrated depends on what you think of him. If you consider him one of the best linebackers in all of football than i would say he is overrated. If you think he is a good football player who always plays hard and makes tackles than he is not overrated. He reminds me of Steve Nelson. A tackling machine who made a few pro bowls but was never considered in contention for Canton. Though Nelson was a better play maker, though much less athletic (Nelson probably could not start in the modern NFL for most teams).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    I was rewatching this game when this thread came up and after I read the post Mayo had a big tackle on a 3rd and 1 keeping the Chiefs out of field goal range and forcing a punt. I'm pretty sure he made the tackle on the goal line stand in SD too. I think when you look at the problems the defense has had It has a lot to do with giving up big plays in the passing game. Many times its so easy to go vertical that Mayo is not a factor. When he's tackling runners and covering TE's I think he does well. But nobody is trying to go through him when it's so easy to around him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 3SB-rings. Show 3SB-rings's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    He makes a ton of tackles...after the runner has broken through the line and picked up a few extra yards.  He's there but always a little late. Not the big stuff 'em at the line splashly tackle that gets everyone fired up.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    I think the guy is solid. I have no problem with his play especially coming off the injury. He will get better with time I'm sure of that. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    In Response to Re: Mayo Overrated??:
    [QUOTE]simple question to all in relation to Babes point. Would you pay Mayo 5 years at 50 million going forward or release him next year and input Spikes there who is on the cheap for the next 2 years.  Spikes has been the better player this year and his instincts and play in the middle ala Seau has been invaluble and a toughness that we need.  I love Mayo, but im talking in business terms. Remember Wes needs money too
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    jay im with you.
    and though he can make a lot of tackles, not many are for no gain.
    by time he makes the tackle its a 5 to 10 yard gain. cant really cover well.
    slightly above avg linebacker. no way id pay him.
      here they seem to rewrd loyalty and longevity. mayo referred to by th eplayers as bb's son. so feels like they would pay and keep him.
        i invest in the playmakers and difference makers.
    go after a hightower and an upshaw in the draft. bring in those 2 plus one or 2 dl a de/dt or de and dt. ie ingram or winn / still or worthy.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    Not sure if anyone remembers (I am actually pretty sure most of you do) but Bruschi wasn't Bruschi for a while.  Had trouble getting on the field, was decent not spectacular at first, just a high motor guy who came on after a few seasons and really turned into someone.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??


    I don't think Mayo is overrated at all. I think he is in the top 10% of LBs in the league, and his numbers have been fairly consistent since he got here, if you back out when he couldn't play due to injury. He's a solid tackler, gets the front 7 set well, good leader, etc. He doesn't play with the same aggresiveness as Ray Lewis, but few do. I don't like comparing May to Lewis because Lewis I think is in the top 3 ILBs of all time.

    The injury question is a whole other thing. It appears that he and Spikes have gotten bit by the injury bug on more than a few occasions. And, without the 2 of them on the field, our LB corps is very weak in general. Therefore, drafting a LB high next year i think is absolutely critical. Brdbreu named 2.

    So, I guess the other question is do you pay Mayo to keep him long term based on his role in the defense and his production? I'm 50/50 on this one because you have to look at who is curently on the roster, available in FA or potentially able to be drafted and ask if they could step in day 1 and give you that production. Would they be better in this system than Mayo is? THat is hard to project.

    At the end of the day, I think we have to sign him long term to a team friendly contract. I think Mayo is an above average LB. I think he would play better and be able to do different things if he was complimented by other good LB's that could be trusted on their assignments. Stick him next to Spikes and you take a kid like Upshaw, hightower, Manti Te'O in the draft and that becomes a very good LB corps. By keeping him and adding another talented player, our starting LB corps becomes a big position of strength in the defense. By not signing him and letting him walk, It will take time once again to build that unit up.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    In Response to Re: Mayo Overrated??:
    [QUOTE]I was rewatching this game when this thread came up and after I read the post Mayo had a big tackle on a 3rd and 1 keeping the Chiefs out of field goal range and forcing a punt. I'm pretty sure he made the tackle on the goal line stand in SD too. I think when you look at the problems the defense has had It has a lot to do with giving up big plays in the passing game. Many times its so easy to go vertical that Mayo is not a factor. When he's tackling runners and covering TE's I think he does well. But nobody is trying to go through him when it's so easy to around him.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    Mayo makes a lot of tackles at the LOS, especially it seems when it's necessary to get a stop. Yeah, he also makes tackles back a bit, but that may very well have to do with his assignment on particular plays. BB's defense is just not that aggressive.  It tends to value reacting and staying in position more than attacking.  So on many plays, Mayo may hang back just a little to be certain they get the stop within 3-yards rather than attacking aggressively and risking a guy running by him for a big gain.  But if a stop right at the LOS is necessary (goal line, third and one, etc), Mayo is often the guy to come up and make the stop.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    Not overrated.

    When he's been healthy (2008, 2010), he's been one of the better ILBs in the NFL.

    In 2009 he was hampered by injury all year, and he's playing hurt this year, too.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    In Response to Re: Mayo Overrated??:
    [QUOTE]If every player, at every position, including coaches aren't future Hall of Famers who make highlight reel plays on every down that are featured nightly on ESPN, then they are proof that BB is a fraud and they need to be replaced by someone whom we should have drafted when we had the chance because then we would be undefeated every game for every season just like we do on MADDEN and our worlds would be perfect and the sun would even shine on a legless dogs butt...............GOD DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET IT????
    Posted by leatherhelmet[/QUOTE]

    respect leather, '

    Noone is expecting that from every player. Mayo was a # 10 pick.  This is why expectations are high. Like I said, He is a good  player and I like him, but there is a decision to be made, and I wouldnt pay him a boatload going forwards, thats all.

    I simple question was posed. IS he overated, and I think it could go both ways. I think he is underated as far as people talking about him, but for fans of the pats, he is overated. They see all the tackles and think he is great. He makes no plays behind the line or killer tackles. Just a modern day ted johnson. Would we pay T.J. 50 mill/5 years?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    In Response to Re: Mayo Overrated??:
    [QUOTE]Not sure if anyone remembers (I am actually pretty sure most of you do) but Bruschi wasn't Bruschi for a while.  Had trouble getting on the field, was decent not spectacular at first, just a high motor guy who came on after a few seasons and really turned into someone.
    Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]

    Bru came in as a DE though, then to OLB, then to ILB.  He had a greater transition.

    Mayo was a top 10 pick who played linebacker in college. Bru was a 3rd rd pick who played only DE in college.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    In Response to Mayo Overrated??:
    [QUOTE]Opinions certainly welcome, but getting tired of hearing how great this guy is but never hearing his number in any broadcasts.  I too have drank the coolade on him, but do not recall many individual effort plays, not to mention game changers....Used to hear and see the impact of the Bruschi and Vrabel linebacking squad an a daily basis. Am I just missing it?
    Posted by cujo99[/QUOTE]

    Maybe if you watched the games rather than listened to them. He is not the best in the league but he is an excellent player. I base this on his play - watching him play. Not on stats or times I hear his name in broadcasts.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    I don't know what games you are watching but Mayo makes monster hits. How could you miss them? Last game they showed him nailing the receiver and dropping him dead cold. Just shows you will see what you want to see. You want the right answer? The coaches will tell you. They think he is a monster.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    Mayo's value inside is that he can read and react to the D. He can met a RB at LoS or he can read out a screen or release but will rarely met a RB in the back field, that's more like Spikes. On the outside he needs another person to assist off of. If he has to react on the outside typically it's already to late. But, when you have someone to assist off of and just tell him to pin his ear's back he's very good at reading the protection and where he can sneak through a gap or seal an edge

    To me he's a top 10% LB but I not a 10mil LB. 10mil LB's to me are Willis, RayRay types and Mayo just isn't that type of LB. To me his value is 6-8mil a year for 5 years. I'm thinking 37mil with 20mil guarantied.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??


    True. I would agree Bruschi's transition was a bit more difficult than say Mayo.

    Mayo played both WOLB and MLB in Tennessee's 4-3. If you look at this college stats as an indicator, they pretty much tell the same story of who he is today. Tons of tackles, sure tackler, athletic kid. Didn't register many sacks, interceptions nor particularly disruptive behind the LOS.

    So Jay, I guess it comes down to for a #10 1st round selection, is he producing equal to his draft selection spot?

    For example, if you look at LB's taken around the same time and their production, its really all over the board. What is interesting is there is a 7 year period that an LB was selected 7 straight times as the DROY. Lets look at how Mayo stacks up agaisnt other DROY LBs in that 7 year period, using career stats. What is also interesting is that most of these kids were selected in the top 15, really just a few spots of one another. The only one taken in round 2 was Demeco Ryans.


    Terrell Suggs (selected #10/2003) 135 games, 541 tackles, 74 sacks, 7 INTS
    Jonathan Vilma (selected #12/2004) 110 games, 818 tackles, 9 sacks, 11 INTS
    Shawne Merriman (selected #12/2005)65 games, 241 tackles, 44.5 sacks, 1 INT
    DeMeco Ryans (selected #33/2006) 80 games, 606 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 2 INTS 
    Pat Willis (selected #11/2007) 73 games, 680 tackles, 17 sacks, 5 INTS
    Jerod Mayo (selected #10/2008) 53 games, 454 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 0 INTS
    Brian Cushing (selected #15/2009) 38 games, 279 tackles, 10 sacks, 6 INTs
     
    So, how do you view Mayo in comparison to this group, individual production and draft spot selected?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Mayo Overrated??

    In Response to Re: Mayo Overrated??:
    [QUOTE]I see him as a more athletic Ted Johnson.  He's a solid run stuffer and capable pass defender.  Good instincts, good vision, good play recognition, good tackler, good discipline.  He's not a play-maker and will never rack up sacks or INTs, but not every player on defense is going to be a play-maker; a defense needs an anchor like Mayo.
    Posted by MattC05[/QUOTE]

         I tend to agree with everything you said above, except the part about him being a "capable pass defender". In fact, he is a poor pass defender. One of the Patriots' weaknesses is the ability of their linebacking corp to cover.

         They'll get a huge test this week...when they go up against LeSean McCoy, and TE Brent Celek. 
     
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