McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    Did we learn where Kyle Wilson finished in Rexie's rankings?

    Wilson was another genius Tannenboob 1st rd pick.

    lol

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PChungAllDay25. Show PChungAllDay25's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]I don't get it.  You clowns were all claiming he was the best in the AFC.  Although, it was pretty obvious he was not, considering how awful that pass D was.  As I said earlier in the year, the Jets had two CBs better than anyone on that pathetic patsie roster, hurt or not.  Football Outsiders does not lie. http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2010
    Posted by PhatRex[/QUOTE

    Phat Rex please call it a day and never post such stupidity ever again.
    Mccourty not top 10?Name ten better I would love to hear about them and some sort of backing behind it.That article is complete trash and irrevelant because he doesnt actually mean to anyone with half a brain these are the hands down top 10 cornerbacks.Because if you watched any football and had any knowledge in football you would know that.It simply takes a single statistic measure and presents it to you.Heres a post by the author himself of the article explaining trying to explain it to you Phat Rex

    "Aaron Schatz :: Fri, 03/18/2011 - 1:52pm

    One thing I want to make clear. Both in this article, and in Wednesday's, people seem to be confusing "presentation of numbers" with "analysis." This isn't analysis. This is presentation of numbers. The ranking in a single statistical metric does not tell you a player's worth. You need to look at the whole picture in context. I'm honestly not even trying to do that in this article."

     
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    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    Next Jets fan are gonna be telling me Mark Sanchez is a good quarterback.Oh wait they already do lol.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB? : Sure that's all that counts, if you live in the past.  I care as much about that as I did 1918, which is not at all.  But hey, if it makes you feel better that the patsies had success 6 years ago and counting, that's all that really matters.  By your logic, you'd think that you'd be pretty upset that you choked against the team that you were suppose to crush (that at 43 years and counting).
    Posted by PhatRex[/QUOTE]

    The past? Does that mean you're planning on announcing that you're winning the Lombardy trophy again? You have no past in the last 43 years and you have no future either. OK maybe you do if we count you and Rex making a fool out of yourselves. I guess that can be called a certain future.

    And by the way little bug I'm not crushed at all. It's only you whose life is so pathetic that you have to rely on a sports team winning or trolling this site to feel like your existance has meaning. I seem to recall you posting that you were leaving here for the off season. Not that anyone believed you. You're entirely too mentally defective to stay away from the only thing that makes you feel like a man.
     
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    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB? : You're right.  Those 10 guys are not the best 10.  They just happen to be the 10 that played the best at the CB position. 
    Posted by PhatRex[/QUOTE]

    Your comments just get worse by the minute.I didnt know joselio hanson was the best cb on the eagles nor stanford routt was even the best cb on the raiders.Also didnt know sean smith was the best cb on even the dolphins.Do you watch football on a serious note lol
     
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    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]Chungallday, I dont recognize your tag so incase you dont know im a Pats fan but if you are going to try and tell me Mark Sanchez is not a "good" QB then you are wrong. Sanchez might not be a great QB or even a very good QB but he is definitely a good QB. And his record as a starter in the only stat that matters (The wins) backs that up. He is not very good but he is good enough. And McCourty was very good in his rookie season but im willing to say he was not a top 10. Maybe he was a top 15 and he was definitely in the top 20 but he was not quite a top 10. I dont think thats too bad either considering he was a rookie with no pass rush. The only thing I take issue with is PhatRex saying McCourty was average cause thats simply not true.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    You know how the bugboy of many names is. He posts his crap here just to get a rise out of people. Then he brags to his dungeon and dragon friends about how he 'spanked' someone from Boston. His entire ego is wrapped around this site.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    Phat Rex attends the welcome home rally, after the Jets SB 2010 season finished, perplexed and flummoxed:




     
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    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]Chungallday, I dont recognize your tag so incase you dont know im a Pats fan but if you are going to try and tell me Mark Sanchez is not a "good" QB then you are wrong. Sanchez might not be a great QB or even a very good QB but he is definitely a good QB. And his record as a starter in the only stat that matters (The wins) backs that up. He is not very good but he is good enough. And McCourty was very good in his rookie season but im willing to say he was not a top 10. Maybe he was a top 15 and he was definitely in the top 20 but he was not quite a top 10. I dont think thats too bad either considering he was a rookie with no pass rush. The only thing I take issue with is PhatRex saying McCourty was average cause thats simply not true.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]
    I am not trying to be critical to another pats fan but I objectively disagree with you .A qb is a crucial position but you can not translate someone being basically good at their individual position into wins and losses which is a category based not on a position but a whole team.Yes it can help you win but if you have a great defense like the jets a great offensive line and a serviceable qb (sanchez) you can still get wins.I think right now sanchez is serviceable he is not "good" yet he only completes about 50% of his passes and has 33 interceptions through 2 seasons thats one less then joe flacco through 3 seasons.Why the comparison because I think flacco is a good qb not a great one (yet) and definately not a bad one.So in my opinion sanchez is a serviceable qb through two seasons maybe growing into a good qb over time but not through two seasons.And just to better understand where I am coming from i dont group players into very good i keep it simple bad,good,great.Serviceable would be between bad and good.

    And i accept that you as a pats fan don't think mccourty is a top 10 in the nfl but i personally do I would put him in the 10 best.Especially considering his skill at the cb position imagine if we had a pass rush.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    I agree with P Chung.

    He's stastically the worst of the new, young QBs who has benefitted from a top rushing attack and a good D.

    The stats reflect his play.

    The wins are certainly all that matter, but those were not because of his play, generally speaking, obviously.

    He won a few games because of some nice plays, but other than that, he's erratic and inconsistent.  I will say he doesn't completely botch plays over and over. 

    He did improve from his horrendous rookie year of 12 TDs and 20 INTs.  So, that's a plus for him.

    He's Jay Cutler Jr.

    Mediocre.

    Good is Cassel, Flacco, Cutler, Orton, Garrard, etc.

    Cassel essentially had 2 Pro Bowl years out his first 3 starting (2008 and 2010).
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]I agree with P Chung. He's stastically the worst of the new, young QBs who has benefitted from a top rushing attack and a good D. The stats reflect his play. The wins are certainly all that matter, but those were not because of his play, generally speaking, obviously. He won a few games because of some nice plays, but other than that, he's erratic and inconsistent.  I will say he doesn't completely botch plays over and over.  He did improve from his horrendous rookie year of 12 TDs and 20 INTs.  So, that's a plus for him. He's Jay Cutler Jr. Mediocre. Good is Cassel, Flacco, Cutler, Orton, Garrard, etc. Cassel essentially had 2 Pro Bowl years out his first 3 starting (2008 and 2010).
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Bugboy reminds me of some of electronics manufacturers I deal with. When your own product fails to live up to your marketing hype you're left with nothing to do except attack the competition. When reps do this it immediately makes me suspicious of the claims they're making about their own products.

    Funniest is that the Jets fans and organization brings it on themselves with their constant chest pounding and stupid predictions.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    It's sort of like Farley in the scene from Tommy Boy when he's down to his last bullet and suggest the customer buy from him because he doesn't put a guarantee on the box.

    He completely botches the butcher's as* line, just struggling, hoping for the best in the sales pitch.

    Magically, it works and they get a large order of brake pads.

    Except in this case, with Phatty Rex, it doesn't work.

    lol

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    Why would I take it personally?  lol

    I feel completely comfortable by using stats and comparing Sanchez within a context to the other young QBs.

    I can't think of one QB I would not take over Sanchez.

    Sanchez only beats Stafford in the young QB discussion, in my opinion.

    I would take Freeman and Braford over Sanchez, based on how they look when you see them play.

    Comparing Brady (less stats) to Manning (stats) and a loser in 2005, is nowhere remotely close to this discussion.

    Manning did not have a top 5 run game all the time, nor was his D as good as the Jets.

    See?

    Sanchez has been well coddled so far and his stats are generally mediocre.

    I do agree he doesn't throw too many boneheaded passes that lead to game changing INTs, but he is careless when running with the ball which leads to fumbles.

    ESPN focused on this (how he holds the ball) and it's true. He fumbled twice in the AFC title game.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    So overall, what I'm coming away with here is that:  Devin McCourty was not a Top 10 Cornerback in 2010 (simply a "very average one" in fact), Because A writer from ProFootball Outsiders and PhatRex say so... 

    Annnd the 1 writer says so after explaining through the first 4 paragraphs of his groundbreaking article, the TWO DOZEN lmao, or more, Stipulations and determinations that he used to either factor in (I believe "wind direction" could have been one of them), AND/OR the dozen more things this writer chose NOT to factor in, with his equation (like "stats"; Oh, OH ROFLOL! I don't wanna forget that the writer actually had the b#lls to say, "the accuracy of having a good TELEVISION VIEWING ANGLE" on the play, in order to reward a DB with a play, or not to...Called: "I'm not looking so it didn't happen" stat category).  Oh yea, Also- The writer made a chart... + !!!

    And then PhatRex's 2 main points of argumentation here, Are:  A)  The Writers from New England, so in him not including Devin McCourty in the Top 10, MUST prove his UTTER Objectivity, and so DMC must "really have been 'average'".  This, in turn, is solidified by PhatRex's point B)  That, to go along with DMC's Top #1-#5 CB stats in Total Tackles, Passes Defensed, AND Interceptions...one really needs to turn a keener eye towards his #1 CB stat in Total Tackles...And once you do, You'll make the sensible determination that: Considering you don't want your Cornerback to have a Complete and Total Game package in BOTH defending the run, or making the most number of plays on the ball all over the field of play, that McCourty, in a sense (but just not in a "statistical sense"), has sorta shortchanged himself, and his team, Because he's less of a pass-coverage corner, & he's sadly more of run-defending, full-field playing, AND a pass-coverage CB...

    This just 'bout sum it up, or- idk, do we have more goin' on here? 
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PChungAllDay25. Show PChungAllDay25's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]Rusty dont take it personally that im not going to respond to you but you and I have had this conversation before so im going to focus on P Chung. Chung you didnt lash out at me so already you get props for keeping a level head. But as a die hard Pats fan I can honestly say that a lot of Pats fans need to take off the Pats glasses. I say this because when it comes to the Pats its ok to say something but another team like the Jets and you get a completly different answer. In 2005 if a Colts fan had flonted Peyton Manning's MVP's and stats and said he was better then Brady 99.9% of Pats fans would say Brady has the best stat of all and thats wins or wins in the playoff's. But here you are telling me the same exact argument can not be used for Sanchez and thats just not right to me. If that argument was ok for Brady in his early career its ok for Sanchez. And im not saying he is as good as Brady was at that point just that its the same argument. Sanchez wins games, he keeps it close or his team keeps it close and he pulls out a win. He has a very good playoff record. Basically I just dont like one way streets, if Pats fans excepted the idea that Brady was great because he won games whether he won pretty of ugly didnt matter then the same can be said for anyone else including a Jet. And on that note I would like to say that IMO if Joe Flacco was a Jet you would be saying the same thing about him whether its true or not. The only reason he gets credit is because he is a raven and not a Jet. Not that we like the Ravens but they are not the Jets. I am just not one of those fans who will say bad things about a player simply cause he is a Jet. Sanchez to me is a good not great QB. And if he gets better each year in a few years he will be a very good QB. Lets hope that does not happen. Personally I would rather have Matt Cassel then Sanchez. And as for McCourty I am just not going to put him in that class yet trhe same way I wouldnt put Mayo in that class till he did it more then once. Many rookies have good rookie years and flame out so I will wait till I see McCourty do it on a consistent basis before I go all gaga for the kid. MAyo proved he is who we thought he was and so now I am ok with saying he is one of the best. And McCourty will do that too IMO but right now he is a very good CB but not a top 10. But I do see why some would jump to that conclusion cause he was very good and clutch last season.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]


    See i understand where you are coming from in that I feel the same way about some Pats fans and fans of any team in general of hating automatically a rival teams players just on prinicipal.Although I do find it stupid that you form this opinion that I am a certain way without prior facts or info to group me as such a fan because my opinion differs with yours.Personally I feel the Pat fans you are referring to who one minute make an argument using one formula then dismiss it if it doesnt serve their needs are casual fans and know nothing about football in general.I judge a player as a player not on a basis of their organization to put it basic if your a good football player regardless of whether I like the player I will not deny their skill at their position simply because i dont like them.

    On to the Sanchez thing I discussed why I think he is only serviceable at this point.It is your assumption which i accept that I would think the same about flacco if he was on the jets but that is incorrect...Flacco is a good qb he makes smart decisions when passing,he is very accurate,can make all the throws,and is a much better leader on the offense then sanchez.If he played for the jets they would be a lot better then they are now.His stats also speak to that.Personally I hate the jets,the ravens,the colts,the giants, etc but I do acknowledge players who are good at what they do doesnt mean i like them necessarily just am not blind to their ability on the football field.
     
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    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    The reason Pats fans should be so excited about McCourty is that he was way above average for a rookie CB.  What I like most about the kid is he can cover one-on-one. Samuel had a lot of picks, but most of them were made in zone coverage when he jumped routes. What I liked the most about a lot of McCourty's picks is they were made in man-to-man coverage. He showed he was able to run with elite receivers and get in proper position to make a play on the ball.  This is highly promising. It's exactly what Revis does so well.  There were times during the season when McCourty was out of position or beat--but he's still learning. For a rookie at a tough position he was great, and more important he showed flashes of having the talent to become a truly elite corner. Time will tell where he ends up, but Pats fans have every right to be excited about this guy's potential.

     
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    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]I don't get it.  You clowns were all claiming he was the best in the AFC.  Although, it was pretty obvious he was not, considering how awful that pass D was.  As I said earlier in the year, the Jets had two CBs better than anyone on that pathetic patsie roster, hurt or not.  Football Outsiders does not lie. http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2010
    Posted by PhatRex[/QUOTE]

    They may not lie, but do their CB success rate stats really mean anything?  Here's what they say about their own data. 

    Typical caveats apply, of course: This is imperfect data based on the game charting project, which means it comes off limited television camera angles. In past years, this data has been very inconsistent from year to year, and we're going to study that in the offseason to try to figure out if we can get more accurate numbers by, say, looking at players over two-year spans. (I wrote this last year as well, but this offseason we have, shall we say, "extra free time.")

    Success Rate, to remind everyone, is the percentage of passes that don't manage to get at least 45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent of needed yards on second down, or 100 percent of needed yards on third down.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]Hey man just covering my bases LOL I dont need a war of words with the Rustdog lol I see what you are saying Rusty but how can you justify Pats fans using the "well Brady wins and thats all that matters" argument early last decade and then turning around and saying that same argument cant be used for Sanchez? The kid wins, he might look ugly while doing but he has gone to the AFC title game two years in a row both of which were his first two years in the league. Im not saying he did it by himself but neither did Brady back when he was winning super bowls. You know im not saying this cause I like the Jets I just believe in being fair thats all.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Listen to yourself. lol

    Phatty is not going to be your friend because you defend his greased up boyfriend.

    Brady's first two seasons, he had a 2:1 TD/INT ratio and his defense wasn't elite in 2001.

    Nor was it in 2002.

    He also had nowhere near the O Line or weaponry Sanchez has.

    That's what made Brady so unique. Prior to 2007, Brady was making medicore or supar talent look good.

    Sanchez barely eeks out wins against mediocre teams.

    And he loses when it matters (two AFC title losses due to him).  That goal line stand Pitt put up against him where they  felt insecure to have Sanchez throw it, speaks volumes.

    He has a long way to go as a consistent starter, AFC title appearance or not.

    Brady was never, ever that inconsistent.



     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]Well he is a California kid who I have not seen in a snow game yet so I will hold off on that judgement for now.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    If you look at Sanchez's numbers in weather less than 40 degrees, it ain't pretty.  He hates the wind, too. His ball is all over the place. 

    He played the game of his life in NE and it's highly unlikely when the NE defense improves even more, we'll see that from him again.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    Which non-troll did I attack?  I have no idea what you are talking about.

    You think I am starting with you? Where did I do this? Because I disagreed?

    Sanchez really isn't the one doing the winning. PatChung said it best. He's "serviceable".

    That's very accurate. He's sort of like Trent Dilfer.  A poor man's Matt Hasselbeck type.

    Very accurate. Until he shows he can take over a game, this is what he is.

    Brady took over the very first game he ever played.  This is the difference between your analogy about Manning v.s. Brady and that silly argument by Colts fans or trolls who are jealous of Brady's big game performances.

    Leading a team down the field to win SBs is sort of a big deal.

    Brady did that TWICE.

    That's why we got annoyed with the "Brady is a system QB" line. It simply wasn't true.

    Sanchez is a system QB in a run first offense.  That's a fact for now.

    Until he shows he can do what Brady did in Week 3 of 2001 or many other games when he started taking snaps, that analogy of yours is a little weak, in my opinion.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    I was kidding. 

    You like to play nice with trolls, and I wouldn't give that toad any room for that whatsoever based on his arrogant behavior here.

    But, you can obviously say and do what  you want as a Pats fan here.  No doubt.  You're a season ticket holder and a loyal fan. 

    I get your point on Sanchez.  It's a fair point. He doesn't throw a lot of INTs to the point where you ask "what was he thinking?", but he really hasn't had to either.

    That's kind of my point.  You want the QB to own the play on the field, and there is no I can say that based on watching him play. He battles. I'll give him that.  But, that really isn't saying much in terms of style of play, consistentcy and results.

    He had a horrible rookie year and improved a little bit last year.  IMO, he doesn't have another gear. He would have shown signs with that kind of support around him by now.

    He played his SB against NE.  We all knew they';d throw everything at the wall there, and it worked. Good job.

    But, that doesn't mean he's elite or SB-ready, either.

    So, generally, we agree.  I don't think anything I, PatChung or anyone else has said about him is inaccurate.

    Sanchez better not lose his weapons or that run game. 

    Now, where was Kyle Wilson rated on Phaty's CB metrics sheet?

    98th? lol
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    In Response to McCourty not even a top 10 CB?:
    [QUOTE]I don't get it.  You clowns were all claiming he was the best in the AFC.  Although, it was pretty obvious he was not, considering how awful that pass D was.  As I said earlier in the year, the Jets had two CBs better than anyone on that pathetic patsie roster, hurt or not.  Football Outsiders does not lie. http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2010
    Posted by PhatRex[/QUOTE]

    Revis had a mediocre year too, so it's funny that you should instigate this.  Cromartie got torched at times, and still refuses to tackle.

    Even if both Jets CBs are better (and I say only Revis is), name 10 other cornerbacks you'd take over McCourty.  I dare you.

    1. Charles Woodson
    2. Tramon Williams (did you see him in the playoffs??!)
    3. Darelle Revis
    4. N'Mandi Asomugha
    5. Champ Bailey (even despite age)
    6. Antoine Winfield (right up there with Woodson for best run support corner and a good cover man)
    7.
    8.
    9.
    10.

    I even did most of the work for you.  Find four more corners who are undisputably better than McCourty.  I've helped you enough.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: McCourty not even a top 10 CB?

    I like Ronde Barber a lot even if he is old.  He was great back in the day.

    I think Leigh Bodden can be on that top 10 list with a pass rush here. Absolutely.

    Asamgoua is still the best.  Once Revis strings together the years that Asamouga has, then, he goes past him.

    Revis is at #2 in my book.

    There are some very good CBs too, like Quentin Jammer, Leon Hall, etc, who aren't GREAT per se, but consistently very good. Brandon Flowers is another.

    I see McCourty on this top 10 list by the end of next year.

     

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