McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    blame goes to:
    bad offensive game plan
    D could NOT get off the field and capitalize off 2 forced fumbles
    Several key mental mistakes (i.e., 12 men on field, really?).

    All three phases, played ok....just not good enough.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    How many points did the offense score in the final 26 minutes? That's right, zero.

    Can we stop blaming one side of the ball already? They lost as a team. Blown opportunities on both sides of the ball, bad plays on both sides of the ball, an overall bad TEAM performance...
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : Actually, I think we saw the D show some signs of having players like Willie this year.  The AFCC game is a good example of that.  They just didn't show it when it mattered most.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    They tried like hell to blow the AFCC game, but the Ravens' kicker just wouldn't cooperate.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    The D could have played better, rarely has there been a perfect game pitched by a D in the Super Bowl.  The Bears 4/6 defense in 1985 comes to mind, the Ravens in their lone championship season of 2000, the Steel Curtain in 76' along with Belichick's Giant defense in 1990 rank among the most overpowering defenses of all time.

    The offense was simply more responsible for this loss, either due to expectations, because of philosophy or even simple math. Don't play like an offensive juggernaut unless you can execute against the best during crunch time, otherwise have some humility and admit that running the ball is important, give your defense a fighting chance by not going to the well once too often on defense and playing keep away from an opponent's offense.


     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]The D could have played better, rarely has there been a perfect game pitched by a D in the Super Bowl.  The Bears 4/6 defense in 1985 comes to mind, the Ravens in their lone championship season of 2000, the Steel Curtain in 76' along with Belichick's Giant defense in 1990 rank among the most overpowering defenses of all time. The offense was simply more responsible for this loss, either due to expectations, because of philosophy or even simple math. Don't play like an offensive juggernaut unless you can execute against the best during crunch time, otherwise have some humility and admit that running the ball is important, give your defense a fighting chance by not going to the well once too often on defense and playing keep away from an opponent's offense.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Well said.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]The D could have played better, rarely has there been a perfect game pitched by a D in the Super Bowl.  The Bears 4/6 defense in 1985 comes to mind, the Ravens in their lone championship season of 2000, the Steel Curtain in 76' along with Belichick's Giant defense in 1990 rank among the most overpowering defenses of all time. The offense was simply more responsible for this loss, either due to expectations, because of philosophy or even simple math. Don't play like an offensive juggernaut unless you can execute against the best during crunch time, otherwise have some humility and admit that running the ball is important, give your defense a fighting chance by not going to the well once too often on defense and playing keep away from an opponent's offense.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    The defense did not even play a decent game. The never created at 3-and-out the entire time. The allowed the Giants to cross the 50 yard-line on every single possession. The Patriots averaging starting field position was their own 16-yard line (that is a long field every time even for a prolific offense). They allowed the Giants to eat up 3, 4 and 5 minutes even on non-scoring drives. The allowed the Giants to score on 50% of their drives and 3 of 4 drives in the second half. They forced zero turnovers (after averaging two per game in the regular season). 

    Worst of all, when the game was on the line, the defensive plan was make them go to Manningham, and it failed horribly. He has 3 receptions on 4 targets for 56 yards on that final drive. 

    The Giants came out and wanted to shorten the game. They knew the fewer times Brady touched the ball the better their chances were. The Giants offense made this a game with 17 possessions the average NFL game has 23. That means they basically took away a quarter of the game. The did it because Patriots defense was unable to stop them from doing it. 

    This game was not low scoring because of a decent game being played by the Patriots D, it was low-scoring because Tom Coughlin wanted it to be. He thought it gave the Giants their best chance of winning, and he was right.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    I'll ask this ? again:  If the score of the game was 0-0 when the Giants got the ball at the end of the game and scored would the loss be  the fault of the Defense, Offense, or the Team. Remember the PATS are primarily an Offensive team.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    Willie gets it and is correct.  I have been consistent on this board.  This defense is not good and is not championship material.  The PATS got dominated in time of possession and yes it is the final score that really matters but you have to admit that was a 21-17 butt kicking when you sit down and rewatch the game.  Can you imagine if the PATS somehow pulled it off.  The GIANTS fans would be jumping off of buildings and rightly so.  The better team won.  
    Lots of speculation that the PATS invest big on defense in 2012 but I don't buy it. Too set in their ways, too stubborn, too bigheaded.   Brady's clock goes tick...tick...tick...  while the team relies on scrap-heap players on defense.  He secretly must be massively pissed that his legacy has been reduced because of second rate players on "D".  Houston Texans team to beat next year in the AFC unless god forbid PM lands with the Jets.   
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : The defense did not even play a decent game. The never created at 3-and-out the entire time. The allowed the Giants to cross the 50 yard-line on every single possession. The Patriots averaging starting field position was their own 16-yard line (that is a long field every time even for a prolific offense). They allowed the Giants to eat up 3, 4 and 5 minutes even on non-scoring drives. The allowed the Giants to score on 50% of their drives and 3 of 4 drives in the second half. They forced zero turnovers (after averaging two per game in the regular season).  Worst of all, when the game was on the line, the defensive plan was make them go to Manningham, and it failed horribly. He has 3 receptions on 4 targets for 56 yards on that final drive.  The Giants came out and wanted to shorten the game. They knew the fewer times Brady touched the ball the better their chances were. The Giants offense made this a game with 17 possessions the average NFL game has 23. That means they basically took away a quarter of the game. The did it because Patriots defense was unable to stop them from doing it.  This game was not low scoring because of a decent game being played by the Patriots D, it was low-scoring because Tom Coughlin wanted it to be. He thought it gave the Giants their best chance of winning, and he was right.
    Posted by FrnkBnhm[/QUOTE]
    Dead on.  Could not have said it better.  The PATS got dominated in that game. Coughlin did what Belicheck did to the Rams in SB36.  He dictated the game, shortened it and turned it into a one possession game where he knew the weakest link in the game was the PATS "D".  While you have to praise BB for getting this team to the SB (still can't believe they did with such a lousy D), one has to admit that Coughlin has his number in the big game.  

     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]I'll ask this ? again:  If the score of the game was 0-0 when the Giants got the ball at the end of the game and scored would the loss be  the fault of the Defense, Offense, or the Team. Remember the PATS are primarily an Offensive team.
    Posted by TSWFAN[/QUOTE]

    The D lost the game at the end. Expecting the O to score it's norm when Brady's #1 weapon was hobbled is nonsensical.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    [QUOTE]Dead on.  Could not have said it better.  The PATS got dominated in that game. Coughlin did what Belicheck did to the Rams in SB36.  He dictated the game, shortened it and turned it into a one possession game where he knew the weakest link in the game was the PATS "D".  While you have to praise BB for getting this team to the SB (still can't believe they did with such a lousy D), one has to admit that Coughlin has his number in the big game.  
    Posted by SXPTSCLTSRULE[/QUOTE]
    Dominated my a$$! Brady set a super bowl record with 16 straight completions and New England led 17-9 early in the second half. The Patriots then failed to put them away but they were far from dominated.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    [QUOTE]The D lost the game at the end. Expecting the O to score it's norm when Brady's #1 weapon was hobbled is nonsensical.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
    Babe we knew after week 1 that our defense wasn't very good. To expect them to suddenly become good in the last drive of the super bowl is nonsensical.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]Babe we knew after week 1 that our defense wasn't very good. To expect them to suddenly become good in the last drive of the super bowl is nonsensical.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    The PATS D was playing better as the season wore on, however, and while McGinest has a valid point, the Giants got the bounces (i.e, PAT drops, Giant fumbles), which is always a big factor between evenly matched teams.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : The D lost the game at the end. Expecting the O to score it's norm when Brady's #1 weapon was hobbled is nonsensical.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    You did not answer the question!!!!!   OH, the PATS were about 60% 0f norm in scoring.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    [QUOTE]The PATS D was playing better as the season wore on, however, and while McGinest has a valid point, the Giants got the bounces (i.e, PAT drops, Giant fumbles), which is always a big factor between evenly matched teams.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    Yes the D was playing better and I predicted a 17-14 Patriots win. My prediction was looking good for most of the game. The Giants just played better in the end.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]Babe we knew after week 1 that our defense wasn't very good. To expect them to suddenly become good in the last drive of the super bowl is nonsensical.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]


    In which case expecting them to win the Super Bowl is probably also nonsensical.  
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]Yes the D was playing better and I predicted a 17-14 Patriots win. My prediction was looking good for most of the game. The Giants just played better in the end.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]


    Agreed, but they almost paid for the Bradshaw TD.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    [QUOTE]In which case expecting them to win the Super Bowl is probably also nonsensical.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    Haha, it may seem that way to most outsiders, but with Belichick and Brady on our side, we knew differently.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]Haha, it may seem that way to most outsiders, but with Belichick and Brady on our side, we knew differently.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    That's exactly right . . . the whole season makes no sense when you look at all the issues with the defense, the lack of a running game, the lack of real wideouts.  But Belichick and Brady have a way of working miracles.  Too bad they couldn't quite pull it off in the Super Bowl.  But really it was an amazing feat just to get there with this team. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    [QUOTE]Agreed, but they almost paid for the Bradshaw TD.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    An hour or so after the game was over I watched an interview with Tom Coughlin and he said he was relieved that Bradshaw got the TD because a field goal is not a sure thing, just ask the Ravens.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]mcginest is speaking from his perspective and as if it is the NE D from 2001.
    Posted by ricky12684[/QUOTE]

    Oh, so it hasn't been the D's job to make stops and get the ball back since 2001?  That explains a lot!! Thanks
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : Oh, so it hasn't been the D's job to make stops and get the ball back since 2001?  That explains a lot!! Thanks
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Didn't you know know that it is the defense job to let the other team hold onto the ball for several minutes so the offense can rest? Also, it is good if the can wait to force a punt until after the other team crosses the 50-yard line because those extra yards on offense help pad out stats...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : Oh, so it hasn't been the D's job to make stops and get the ball back since 2001?  That explains a lot!! Thanks
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    i think what he was saying is that players n ex-players will focus on trees not the forest. in this case, willie was commenting on a trees that he was familiar with.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    it's always tempting to blame the loss on a particular play, or drive. it's about the last drive. welker should have caught the ball. tb should have been more accurate throwing that ball. blah blah blah.

    ultimately, it's really pointless to argue/nitpick on one play.... or even on one drive. nobody plays perfect ball. the game boiled down to production - the sum of all the plays and of all drives by each side.
    • did the o produce even close to their normal sunday night production? far from it.
    • did the d allow the opposing o allow them to produce more than or qual to their norm? the answer is no.
    asking the d to keep nyg from scoring more than 17 pts was basically asking them to perform way better than their normal, to compensate for the o's far below their normal performance. it's more reasonable to ask someone to perform to norm than to ask someone to perform way above norm.

    think of it this way... with zero production from the o over the last 26 mins, the only reason the pats were leading in the last four mins, anyway, was because the d kept it for 22 mins. 

     

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