McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : You were expecting us to just blow them away with Gronk hurt so they wouldn't "hang around"?
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    alright you are right about the gronk injury really hurting the offense....but why would brady heave up a pass to a gronk playing on one leg? they were at mid field and it was FIRST DOWN....if its third down you can make that pass because it was essentially a punt, but why do it on first down when you show no indication of slowing down?
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : alright you are right about the gronk injury really hurting the offense....but why would brady heave up a pass to a gronk playing on one leg? they were at mid field and it was FIRST DOWN....if its third down you can make that pass because it was essentially a punt, but why do it on first down when you show no indication of slowing down?
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]

    My feeling is Gronk should have leveled that guy once he saw that he had far superior position on him on that long pass.

    Brady might have been affected by the hurt to his already bad shoulder and even winced as he let that go. Hard to say but after the shoulder got slammed his play definitely deteriorated.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : My feeling is Gronk should have leveled that guy once he saw that he had far superior position on him on that long pass. Brady might have been affected by the hurt to his already bad shoulder and even winced as he let that go. Hard to say but after the shoulder got slammed his play definitely deteriorated.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    i agree on the shoulder thing, but that just makes the throw even more ill-advised...a qb with a hurting shoulder throwing it deep to a tight end with a bad ankle....really doesnt make much sense....do i think gronk could have done more with his hamburger helper hands? absolutely, but the throw was just dumb
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : well one was to be expected, the other wasnt.....a shaky D all season gives up a late td=expected.....a reliable all-pro receiver dropping the ball with a chance to put the game away=not expected........defense played their infamous bend but dont break style the whole game and gave the pats offense a chance to step on their throats and put the game away....they didnt. after this game, one could make the argument that eli is the more clutch qb at this point since he led his team down the field while it mattered...while brady went 7-18 at the end of the game....i think brady is light years ahead of eli, but if you want to go JUST by the end of the game, eli came up clutch and brady didnt
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]


    You can't take blame off the D because they stink. Then you're expecting Brady and Co. to have to be perfect to make up for the other deficiency. THAT'S not fair.

    Brady had a game most any QB in the history of the game would be fairly proud of going by the numbers and even the eyeball test. People just jump on every imperfect play because he has to be perfect to make up for other deficiencies.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : You can't take blame off the D because they stink. Then you're expecting Brady and Co. to have to be perfect to make up for the other deficiency. THAT'S not fair. Brady had a game most any QB in the history of the game would be fairly proud of going by the numbers and even the eyeball test. People just jump on every imperfect play because he has to be perfect to make up for other deficiencies.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    his first 34 minutes of the game could be envied by anyone..his last 26, not so much.....7-18 is bad for even mark sanchez

     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : i agree on the shoulder thing, but that just makes the throw even more ill-advised...a qb with a hurting shoulder throwing it deep to a tight end with a bad ankle....really doesnt make much sense....do i think gronk could have done more with his hamburger helper hands? absolutely, but the throw was just dumb
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]

    QBs do throw picks. Brady is the best all-time at not doing that. I agree. It was dumb because he probaly couldn't throw normally at that point. I wish he was perfect all the time.

    But this game was lost well after that. You just can't go back and say "this is what did it". That was all history until the moment of truth and the game was really on the line.

    We could go back and say the D got zero turnovers. The average NFL D gets 1.5 turnovers a game.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....


    Ball Control – A strategy that involves the offense keeping possession of the ball for long periods of time.

    The theory of a ball control attack is that the longer the offensive team has possession, the less time the opponent has to generate a scoring drive.

    The D could not stop this even once.  Not the first drive, not the last drive or any drive in between.  Zilch, zero, nada.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : his first 34 minutes of the game could be envied by anyone..his last 26, not so much.....7-18 is bad for even mark sanchez
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]

    He had 8 balls dropped too.

    Even on the last 57 second desperation drive Hernandez dropped a crucial pass that made the already very unlikely success almost impossible.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : QBs do throw picks. Brady is the best all-time at not doing that. I agree. It was dumb because he probaly couldn't throw normally at that point. I wish he was perfect all the time. But this game was lost well after that. You just can't go back and say "this is what did it". That was all history until the moment of truth and the game was really on the line. We could go back and say the D got zero turnovers. The average NFL D gets 1.5 turnovers a game.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    the turnovers thing i can understand....they forced three fumbles and didnt recover one....well one was negated due to the penalty, but that was really more the result of bad coaching...

     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : He had 8 balls dropped too. Even on the last 57 second desperation drive Hernandez dropped a crucial pass that made the already very unlikely success almost impossible.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    hell yeah, im not blaming brady fully, the whole offense stunk when it mattered....the players that brought them there, lost them the game. just like in 2007....sad, but true
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : You can't take blame off the D because they stink. Then you're expecting Brady and Co. to have to be perfect to make up for the other deficiency. THAT'S not fair. Brady had a game most any QB in the history of the game would be fairly proud of going by the numbers and even the eyeball test. People just jump on every imperfect play because he has to be perfect to make up for other deficiencies.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    expecting the o to play a perfect game is expecting the o to score more than their reg season avg - say maybe 40-45. yup, that's by definition of avg. did you see anyone here say that the o should have scored that much. 

    and why is it not fair to expect the o to play above their norm on the biggest stage? isn;t that what should be expected from elite teams?

    isn't that what you are expecting the d to do - that's why you want them to keep the giants from scoring more than 17? actually in that case, you are expecting the #15 d to suddenly perform like a top 3 d. well, they performed like a #11, #12 d.

    on another thread someone said that the pats has the best qb, te and coach. do you really believe that they performed like the best qb, te and coach? the production numbers say no.





     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : expecting the o to play a perfect game is expecting the o to score more than their reg season avg - say maybe 40-45. yup, that's by definition of avg. did you see anyone here say that the o should have scored that much.  and why is it not fair to expect the o to play above their norm on the biggest stage? isn;t that what should be expected from elite teams? isn't that what you are expecting the d to do - that's why you want them to keep the giants from scoring more than 17? actually in that case, you are expecting the #15 d to suddenly perform like a top 3 d. well, they performed like a #11, #12 d. on another thread someone said that the pats has the best qb, te and coach. do you really believe that they performed like the best qb, te and coach? the production numbers say no.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    great post, couldnt agree more
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : the turnovers thing i can understand....they forced three fumbles and didnt recover one....well one was negated due to the penalty, but that was really more the result of bad coaching...
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]


    I don't blame the D for that. It's moot. We were in it at the end and did not make the stop on D.

    It could have been that we had 1:55 left and got the ball and if the O failed then it would be on them.

    If Wes did catch that ball we very likely would have won. I hate to even say that because he is such a great player. But it's true. Too bad the D couldn't bail him out with a stop at the end.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : I don't blame the D for that. It's moot. We were in it at the end and did not make the stop on D. It could have been that we had 1:55 left and got the ball and if the O failed then it would be on them. If Wes did catch that ball we very likely would have won. I hate to even say that because he is such a great player. But it's true. Too bad the D couldn't bail him out with a stop at the end.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    it is unfortunate that they couldnt, but im very proud of the defenses' effort all game, they kept the game in hand and gave the pats a chance to score....the defense could have crumbled after being down 9-0, but they didnt, they played their butts off and all they needed was one last drive from the offense for the lombardi trophy, the same offense that averaged scoring 30+ all year, and the offense couldnt do it...
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : expecting the o to play a perfect game is expecting the o to score more than their reg season avg - say maybe 40-45. yup, that's by definition of avg. did you see anyone here say that the o should have scored that much.  and why is it not fair to expect the o to play above their norm on the biggest stage? isn;t that what should be expected from elite teams? isn't that what you are expecting the d to do - that's why you want them to keep the giants from scoring more than 17? actually in that case, you are expecting the #15 d to suddenly perform like a top 3 d. well, they performed like a #11, #12 d. on another thread someone said that the pats has the best qb, te and coach. do you really believe that they performed like the best qb, te and coach? the production numbers say no.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Look, they weren't apt to score 30 points on a Giants' D that allowed 14 through the playoffs anyway. And with Gronk broken they weren't apt to score even 24.

    Maybe if the receivers don't drop 8 passes they get more than 17. Maybe if the D gets a turnover, which the average NFL team gets 1.5 a game, we score more than 17.

    But we scored 17. Three more than the Giants avergaed for the playoffs.

    And still could have won it at the end if the D stopped Manning. Which they have not been able to do in the last 3 tries.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : You were expecting us to just blow them away with Gronk hurt so they wouldn't "hang around"?
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    so then you are admitting that the o did not produce. they did not have a healthy gronk and that crippled the o. 

    then why take it out on a d that did better than they had all year, yielding a fg more than sff - the second best d in the league? 

    you did not expect the o to play a perfect game yet you expect the d to. 



     
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : it is unfortunate that they couldnt, but im very proud of the defenses' effort all game, they kept the game in hand and gave the pats a chance to score....the defense could have crumbled after being down 9-0, but they didnt, they played their butts off and all they needed was one last drive from the offense for the lombardi trophy, the same offense that averaged scoring 30+ all year, and the offense couldnt do it...
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]

    It was a good effort by the D. But it WAS all for naught because they let Eli beat them yet again for the third time in the last minute. That is ridiculous.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    and also, while i agree that the gronk injury may have cost them the lombardi trophy....you also have to remember the most consistent defensive player all season for the pats wasnt playing in the super bowl either, but noone wants to mention that
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : so then you are admitting that the o did not produce. they did not have a healthy gronk and that crippled the o.  then why take it out on a d that did better than they had all year, yielding a fg more than sff - the second best d in the league?  you did not expect the o to play a perfect game yet you expect the d to.   
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    I admit that the O was hurting and being in the game right to the end was a good thing considering Gronk was not nearly as able to play as we hoped.

    But being in it at the end doesn't mean squat if you fail to make the winning plays. The D failed to make the winning plays at the end.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

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    [QUOTE]and also, while i agree that the gronk injury may have cost them the lombardi trophy....you also have to remember the most consistent defensive player all season for the pats wasnt playing in the super bowl either, but noone wants to mention that
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]

    When you lose this close, there are so so many things that could have changed the outcome.

    It's water under the bridge. What I want to see is BB draft a whole lot better than he has.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : When you lose this close, there are so so many things that could have changed the outcome. It's water under the bridge. What I want to see is BB draft a whole lot better than he has.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    he could definitely draft better in CB and WR category.....he has been great drafting tight ends, o-linemen and linebackers....its sad they havent been able to develop a receiver since branch....maybe underwood is that guy, too early to tell
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    For what I know about the defense...I can't just blatantly come out and say this game was their fault - because what they are is an average at best defense and they played slightly better than that. The real problem is that it's obvious that an average defense will not win you championships - it'll get you there against sub par offenses, but sooner or latter you're going to have to stop someone good.

    In the end it's both the offense and defense's fault.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : What the hell clue is there to get? The D has F A I L E D in the clutch in to 2006 AFFC game, the 2008 SB and this SB. This isn't freekin rocket science, in every case at the end they had a chance to win the game with a stop and failed.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    And the offense that averaged 34 plus points in 07 and 2011 averaged 15.5 ppg in both SB losses.

    I would tell you to get a clue but you would have a zero % chance of finding it.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]For what I know about the defense...I can't just blatantly come out and say this game was their fault - because what they are is an average at best defense and they played slightly better than that. The real problem is that it's obvious that an average defense will not win you championships - it'll get you there against sub par offenses, but sooner or latter you're going to have to stop someone good. In the end it's both the offense and defense's fault.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Mthurl I look at it as a BB coached defense will play well enough in the playoffs to win. Allowing 17 points and 19 points in both SB's is pretty good imo.

    I agree that this years defense was short on talent especially in the secondary. And to me it is obvious a one dimensional offense will fail to score points and maintain ball control(no turn overs) in big games i.e Super Bowls. History has shown this to be true unfortunately with our team.
     
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    Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....

    In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: McGinnest said on ESPN Podcast today with Adam Jones that.... : expecting the o to play a perfect game is expecting the o to score more than their reg season avg - say maybe 40-45. yup, that's by definition of avg. did you see anyone here say that the o should have scored that much.  and why is it not fair to expect the o to play above their norm on the biggest stage? isn;t that what should be expected from elite teams? isn't that what you are expecting the d to do - that's why you want them to keep the giants from scoring more than 17? actually in that case, you are expecting the #15 d to suddenly perform like a top 3 d. well, they performed like a #11, #12 d. on another thread someone said that the pats has the best qb, te and coach. do you really believe that they performed like the best qb, te and coach? the production numbers say no.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    I do not understand what people are missing. I think I am going to give up trying to explain. The game was not low-scoring because of great defense by the Patriots. It was low scoring because Tom Coughlin made a decision to keep the game low scoring by trying to eat up time on offense. Win the turnover battle and field position battles. They were able to do all three because of a failure by the Patriots Defense

    Failing to get a single 3-and-out. Failing to force a turnover after averaging two per game in the regular season. Failing to stop the Giants from crossing the 50 yard-line on every single possession. Failing to stop the Giants from scoring on 3 of 4 second half possessions. 

    I do think the Patriots had one of the best TEs (but he was injured) and one of the best QBs (who may have also been hurt after the Justin Tuck sack in the 3rd Quarter), but the one who really failed this team was BB. The defense failed to stop or truly slow down the Giants for the entire second half. That is bad defense.

    So either people who think the defense is good need to admit that we are overrating Spikes, Mayo, McCourty, Chung, Ninkovich, Love, Deaderick, Moore, Arrington, etc. or that Belichick was outcoached pure and simple. Or else, how do explain that second half and final drive by the Giants offense.

     

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