Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    It's hard for me to think of someone who's Ptriots opinion/sources I trust and respect more than Holley. He has been around the team in varying degrees (some closer than any other reprter I'm aware of) for over a decade. He made calls, gathered info, and waited until he gathered enough to feel like he could weigh in heavily on the subject.

    According to him and his sources, Welker's agents basically said that whatever the offer was going to be, 2011 (franchise tag 9.5) + 2012 and beyond else has to add up to AT LEAST 20 million guaranteed, and start there. For instance, they were saying he wouldn't have worked for a single year at anything less than the 11.5 the second year Franchise would have brought, and at least 11.5 would have to have been guaranteed in ANY offer for them to consider it.

    Welker's agents absolutely, and TOTALLY misread the situation, and are trying to keep from looking as bad as they are.

    Additionally, in any previous negotiation that went bad, regardless of what was said...I've never heard Kraft be so outspoken. That led me to believe either he was telling the truth and flat out pizzed at what was being said...or he's had a fundamental change in his behavior that hasn't been seen before.

    Agents are bad for sports. They are akin to ambulance-chasing, sleazeball lawyers. 99% of the contracts they "get" for their clients, could be gotten by the player themselves, most every-day sports fans, and probably most service animals as well.

    Good luck to Welker. I was ok with him going elsewhere, I was ok with him not coming back last year...but that's just me. The agents? They can burn.

     



    if agents are so bad for sports explain how sports currently gross billions in revenues and tv and radio stations pay millions to billions for the rights to broadcast their games and how all 4 major sports draw more fans now live than probably any other time previously and how sports franchises have on average appreciated about 300% in the last 30 years

     

    and if you think players-much less a fan!-could negotiate with the $10,000/hr lawyers and professional GM's for contracts worth millions of dollars then u are being silly or fooling urself-i can just see you trying to negotiate with a professional GM and lawyers representing a $500 million sports franchise...you would go home paying them!

     

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    Stuff happens....

    I think each situation is unique. With Welker, the issue starts with the fact that this was his first bite at the apple. He far outplayed his previous contract and was looking at his first and last chance to make big money. He did not have 'compareables' in terms of slot receivers as his production has been equal to any '#1 receiver' out there over the last 5 years and far greater than any other slot.

    I actually think the Pats mistake was franchising him last year. If he had gone on the open market last year, Pats and he would have ended up at 3 yrs, 21M, 16 guaranteed and everyone would have been happy.

    After the tag and negotiations breaking down and the first few games, trust was a little frayed and this off season just got worse. Whatever the incentives in the Pats '10M + 6M incentive' deal were, WW and his agent didn't trust the team enough to let him reach the incentives. Once free agency began it was all but over.

    Did the agent miscalculate the market, yes. Did WW lose trust in the Pats, yes. Did the Pats make some mistakes, probably. Sh!t happens.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    Welker or Dunn must have bullied Rusty in school or stole his girlfriend once or something along those lines because no matter how many times Rusty tells Welker fans to drop it and move on he continues to keep it going.

    I picture Rusty with big ol koolaid mustache on his face 24/7.  The dude goes to absurd lengthes to tow the company line around here.  I think he needs to find a hobby.  He has multiple screen names with outragous post numbers.  Maybe he is one of those paid posters that show up in forums who does whatever it takes to defend the team, no matter what they do. Right or wrong.

    The fact is he lives in a plastic bubble.  One with Patriots stickers all over it and BB and Kraft posters hanging up in it.  He probably wears a blue shirt with red tire every day under his hoodie that has cut off sleeves.

    What I find really interesting is people who aren't Pats fans clearly think that it was a mistake not to do whatever it took to keep Welker.  If you go visit other teams forums as an outsider you see the same tow the company line fans in there and it's very obvious how clueless they are with the comments they make.  Then you read what fans that can be objective about their team write and they make a lot of sense.  You instantly notice this being an outsider looking in.  I see this alot here.  People are so stuck on their team can do no wrong that they aren't objective and you go away thing WTF, they have no clue.  The are living in a box with blinders and rose colored glasses on.

     

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from laurienyc13. Show laurienyc13's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    I agree with the assessment that WW's agent screwed up, I also think his wife played a huge part in this, why else would he call Denver ( her home) I don't remember a player of Wes' statue having to call someone to take him! Pretty embarrassing  and Wes couldn't go  back to Pats with his tail between his legs after his agent said what he deserved! Wes changed after he got married,   while I always loved Wes I don't think he'll be as successful with the Broncos, the chemistry he had with Brady didnt happen overnight.  I also don't ever remember the Pats talking so much about a deal before, so I believe Kraft's story. Why would he talk about it.. WW will be gone after a year...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    In response to laurienyc13's comment:

    I agree with the assessment that WW's agent screwed up, I also think his wife played a huge part in this, why else would he call Denver ( her home) I don't remember a player of Wes' statue having to call someone to take him! Pretty embarrassing  and Wes couldn't go  back to Pats with his tail between his legs after his agent said what he deserved! Wes changed after he got married,   while I always loved Wes I don't think he'll be as successful with the Broncos, the chemistry he had with Brady didnt happen overnight.  I also don't ever remember the Pats talking so much about a deal before, so I believe Kraft's story. Why would he talk about it.. WW will be gone after a year...



    Scum of the earth: lawyers, agents . . . . . and wives.

    :-)

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    Regardless of who was at fault, Tedy Bruschi comments about our receivers are spot on and what a lot us have been saying regarding durability and Brady's comfort zone. We will know in the fullness of time whether the Pats can move forward.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

     


    Dude, that's great, but he lost.  He failed his client. If Wes has a decent year, Denver has to cut him due to cap issues which may continue into 2014, then he's out as a FA again.

    If Welker got the best deal anyone was going to offer him, then the agent didn't fail him, even if the deal was less than what Welker and his agent wanted.  I think people are confusing not getting what you want with not getting the best deal available to you.  Welker clearly didn't get what he wanted, but I do think he may have gotten the best deal he could have gotten given the circumstances (which were disadvantageous to him).  I explained above why (from what we know at least), playing under the franchise tag was a good decision and why, this year, the Denver deal likely makes more sense for Welker than the Pats' offer.  Assuming the incentives are unrealistic (1,500 yards seems a stretch, for instance), the deal with Denver gives Welker a good chance of either making 12 million over two years or making $6 million this year and having another shot at free agency in 2014, while the Pats deal probably leaves Welker with 10 million over two years no matter what and a much less likely chance at free agency in 2014. Free agency offers an opportunity to get more money--so being cut isn't necessarily a bad thing for Welker.  I think Welker and his agent are looking at 2014 as Welker's best chance to sign a final deal worth at least $4 million.  They will be fine if Denver keeps Welker on in 2014 and pays him $6 million, but if Denver cuts him, they're banking on being able to get at least $4 million in free agency, which would make the Denver deal a wash with the Pats' offer.  Anything more than $4 million in free agency next year would be a win.  

    Wes had to ask himself if he wanted years or money.  I said this on here 2 years ago in these debates.

    He wanted both. That was a huge downfall in the negotiations.

    The problem is, in NFL contracts, (guaranteed) money and years usually go hand-in-hand, because teams won't give big signing bonuses unless they can spread that money out for cap purposes over a number of years.  It's just another reason why Welker was at a huge disadvantage.  Age was against him.  The big deals usually come with the second contract when a player is still young.  Signing an older player to a big deal is tough, because you need a longer deal to get the money and no one wants to give an old guy long deals.  The agent, of course, was well aware of this, but he wasn't going to just roll over and accept whatever was offered without at least trying to maximize the deal.  It seems like the agent and Welker back in 2011 had a long term plan of getting Welker around $20 million over 2012, 2013, and 2014.  So far, they've gotten him $15.5 over the first two years.  If he gets $6 from Denver for 2014 or a similar amount for 2014 in a free agent deal, they'll have met their goal.  

     




     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Michael Holley offers insight/details into Welker situation

    42&46 - Football, and sports in general would make a ton of money without agents. I never specifically said it...but I was talking sports agents. Sports agents don't help grow the game in the least, they just try to get as much of what someone else built up as they can. Leeches. Literally.

    -Do agents encourage fans to buy sports, watch games, and buy NFL-branded stuff?

    -Do the NFL and Networks use agents to negotiate the BILLION dollar deals? NO! Negotiators? Sure. But here's the difference...negotiators are usually:

    a) paid employees of the entity, or, 

    b) on retainer by the entity.

    They do NOT get a percentage based on what the deal ends up being. Maybe the salesman over at the network gets a percentage, but not like an agent. They get paid year round for there work, which sometimes involves negotiating these big deals. But, again, I could work for the NFL and negotiate those:

    "CBS? Want the games for 10 billion? No? NBC? No? ESPN? No. Ok, how about 9? NBC, you're in? Awesome."

    I Went to school for criminal justice, I would take great oleasure in watching on prof/lawyer do court room role play, and break down poeple on the stand, and get them to agree and admit to ABSURD things. I watched one girl get so rattled, she said: "yes, it snowed yesterday"...In September. I don't let people fast-talk me and confuse me. Nobody can FORCE an answer, if you need to take 10 seconds to slow someone down and THINK...then you do that. Or you're a fool. I also am quick with words, and am usually the biggest wise a s s in the room...I think they go hand in hand to be honest. My mind just works that way. Many people are not like that, and I could see them struggling to negotiate. 

    I recently went to look at a 1985 Nissan 300zx. 93k original miles. Mint, and I mean MINT red exterior. They were asking 3500, a very fair price. I offered 3000. She took 3100, and admitted after all was said and done, she never intended to go below 3200...but she did. And all I did was ask. I didn't even point out flaws (of which there were few) or reasons why. I just said "Would you take 3000?" I would have happily paid 3500, but I was happier to use the 400 to get it registered.

     
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