Mike Wallace a Patriot?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]The comparison between the Jets and the Steelers is a little off base as far as I see it.  The Jets have traded up into the top of the draft taking on high salaries for big risks (Sanchez, Gholston) and these players (some, not all Ferguson) have not really panned out.  They signed some big name free agents and made trades to get Holmes, Pace, Scott, Burress, Jenkins, Edwards, Tomlinson, and Cromartie.  They've had to pay all these guys.  The Steelers on the other hand pretty much build through the draft.  They haven't brought in many free agents but just have had to pay their own guys.  Their mistakes have been made more in the structure of the contracts and some is just trying to keep the talent that they've drafted. This is why I worry about the Patriots signing high price free agents this year.  I look two and three years down the road and think that they are going to have trouble signing their own guys, let alone free agents with big contracts.  The reason they ended up trading Seymour is because they basically could only afford to keep him or Wilfork and with Seymour's injuries the two years before they could not justify spending big on him.
    Posted by paularnold[/QUOTE]

    The comparison wasn't based on how they got into cap trouble, the comparison is based solely on the consequences of the cap trouble (ie lose of depth and inability to retain FA's)

     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    the 1st question with any of these wr's is

    are they smart enough to get on the field?

    I want a burner,
    I want some one with hands
    I would like someone big

    and if i got all 3 - would they get on the field?

    If not its not wortth the money or the picks

    I have never really understood why this seems to be a problem
    with the Pats??? But is has been

    I am not crazy about trading Hoyer
    He is athletic and seems accurate
    trading him could only maybe help us at the margins

     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    I don't think that this WR problem is specific to the Patriots.  Certain receivers that they have had haven't had the talent to play in the NFL period (Bethel, C. Jackson, Price, and B. Tate).  Those were draft mistakes that every team makes.  Some of the veterans that have been brought in and failed were really on their last legs (Ocho, Galloway, Holt).  A couple did struggle to grasp it, although I would think that Gabriel and Ocho would have had problems playing anywhere.  There have been several players who came in and picked it up quickly and exelled in it (Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Caldwell, Branch, Givens, Patten).  I don't really think it is that difficult of a system to grasp, it's just been portrayed that way because of Ocho's failures this season.  I can't think of a receiver with talent who has not done well as a Patriot.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    [QUOTE]"All they have to do is restructure a 'few' contracts". LOL! Just like the Jets, right? Right and you'd be wrong just like Michael Felger is wrong. Did you see the Jets implode last year? Why do you think that happened?  If it's so fluid with 53 man rosters, why are teams needing to walk away from pricier veterans?  Why will a team like Pitt or a team like the Jets have trouble doing what you just said?  YOu're delusional. The cap is a real thing nd it's clearly more difficult to manage in the NFL as opposed to the NHL, and obviously the easy NBA. Why will Balt tag Ray Rice instead of extending him longterm?  How many players make up an NFL roster? Why did the 1997 and 1998 Broncos hide Elway and Terrell Davis's real salaries to be more aggressive in FA to help their team improve? You couldn't resist being a moron again?  Apparently.  You're good at it, so why break precendent, Hurlie? Seriously what kind of work are you in? You seem to have zero business sense whatsoever. Maybe we can get you a job with Jets so they can continue to be morons balancing their payroll. lmao
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    That Rusty. Such a polite, courteous fellow!
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In response to "Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I don't care if he runs 3 routes, or 5 or 6, they're all the same kind of route. He's also mentally challenged like DeSean Jackson, so they aren't fits here.  I see sunlight right now. I am off to the gym shortly with the top down in this nice 75 degree weather, and I'll retreat home to make a nice dinner for my gf after that.  You'll be eating a frozen pizza in the basement reading Mel Kiper's draft board. You couldn't be more of a moron.  Just because people are smarter than yourself, it doesn't give you the right to start lashing out. Back to the Madden video games, son.   Your types are the biggest geeks.  Ignore cost, the cap, the market and just drool over some really fast guy with bloated stats in a rudimentary style Pitt offense because he makes a big play once in a while.  Most of all his plays come with Roethlisberger breaking out the pocket. We don't have that luxury here.  Anyone who thinks Mike Wallace becomes a great route runner overnight is a moron.  Antonio Brown is more impressive than Wallace. Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE] I'm the moron , yet you live on BDC. This place is like air to you. How sad is your life that you spend every single day here? Seriously every single day! You have no life , no job , no friends , no gf and post hundreds of times everyday for years. How pathetic. What's funny is you actually believe you know and understand football. It's hilarious that you say Wallace has a low football IQ , but Brandon Meriweather was the 2nd best S in football last year. Truth is you know very little about sports and most likely never played them in your life. Again you spend most of your life typing furiously behind a computer in a place that bans you time and tome again. Ouch!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : mthurl - They are desperately and I do mean desperately trying everything they can to keep their #1 receiver. Even after 5 major contract restructures they are still 5mil over. If they had so much talent then why are they so desperate to make as much room as possible to try to squeeze in a single WR? Not to mention that they won't be able to retain a number of their FA's and will still have to release players in order to clear enough cap to sign draft picks. Just like the Jets this past year Pit is going to have to sacrifice depth to keep some of their top players. You saw the lack of depth with both Pit and the Jets last year due to cap casualties from the year before. Both teams might have talent up front but no depth behind them and that's the effect of poor cap management.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I think they are desperately trying to keep him because he's a young and talented player - they are completely loaded at the wideout position and some on here think he's not there best player at the position.

    Pittsburgh is not a team that goes out and blows money during free agency, they build their team through the draft and happen to be very very good at it...it's a nice problem to have. They have guys at almost every key spot that happens to be one of the best at his position...linebacker, safety, wide receiver, nose tackle, center, quarterback, tight end and yet there's still a good chance they keep Wallace.

    I don't like to comment about the Jets because anything you say positive about them labels yourself as a troll. I will say this...how many teams in the NFL have done a pretty good job at winning over the last three seasons DESPITE their quarterback? None? I can't think of any off the top of my head - usually if you don't have the QB you're toast. Now there are some teams that have a average/slightly above average one that have done well (Baltimore, SF,), but none with a QB as bad as Sanchez. That tells me their roster is far from bad - heck they've given us fits over the last three years.
     
    You can talk about the depth of the Steelers and Jets, but if you don't have the QB to carry you through those games, your depth isn't going to mean much. In my opinion our own team is an example of that - we were signing guys literally off the street the last two years (and on the defensive side that was evident)...in the end our QB and coach covered up for it.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I think they are desperately trying to keep him because he's a young and talented player - they are completely loaded at the wideout position and some on here think he's not there best player at the position. Pittsburgh is not a team that goes out and blows money during free agency, they build their team through the draft and happen to be very very good at it...it's a nice problem to have. They have guys at almost every key spot that happens to be one of the best at his position...linebacker, safety, wide receiver, nose tackle, center, quarterback, tight end and yet there's still a good chance they keep Wallace. I don't like to comment about the Jets because anything you say positive about them labels yourself as a troll. I will say this...how many teams in the NFL have done a pretty good job at winning over the last three seasons DESPITE their quarterback? None? I can't think of any off the top of my head - usually if you don't have the QB you're toast. Now there are some teams that have a average/slightly above average one that have done well (Baltimore, SF,), but none with a QB as bad as Sanchez. That tells me their roster is far from bad - heck they've given us fits over the last three years.   You can talk about the depth of the Steelers and Jets, but if you don't have the QB to carry you through those games, your depth isn't going to mean much. In my opinion our own team is an example of that - we were signing guys literally off the street the last two years (and on the defensive side that was evident)...in the end our QB and coach covered up for it.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    But you missed the point completely. It doesn't matter how Pit or the Jets got into cap trouble it just matters that it affected their depth.

    In the Jets case they overspent over a 2 year period (hence why they won in the last 3 years)

    In Pits case they overvalue their own players and spent to much to keep aging vets.

    In both cases they ended up failing this year because of that lack of depth and having all up front talent. Inadequate backups hindered their ability to win in when injures took their toll. This off-season both teams are scrabbling to restructure as many contracts as possible in hopes of retaining some of their FA's and signing the draft picks. However, both teams had to let their depth go a little last year and more so this year. Both teams also may lose major pieces on their teams because they can no longer afford to keep them (Wallace and Pouha).

    This is what happens. First your depth goes, then you start losing core pieces until the team is forced to either eat the larger contracts to make room or rely on JAGs in starting roles until you can get out from those contracts

     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-restructures-deal-to-help-team-deal-with-salary-cap-concerns/2012/02/23/gIQAlsGWWR_story.html


    I think the BR restructuring puts the final nail in the coffin of any hope of getting Wallace.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-restructures-deal-to-help-team-deal-with-salary-cap-concerns/2012/02/23/gIQAlsGWWR_story.html I think the BR restructuring puts the final nail in the coffin of any hope of getting Wallace.
    Posted by nyjoseph[/QUOTE]

    Not necessarily. Even before Ben's restructure they were 5mil over with the other restructures. Ben's might just get the under the cap. They will still need to do more restructures and/or releasing players before they can get far enough under the cap to match and potential offers Wallace might see

     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : But you missed the point completely. It doesn't matter how Pit or the Jets got into cap trouble it just matters that it affected their depth. In the Jets case they overspent over a 2 year period (hence why they won in the last 3 years) In Pits case they overvalue their own players and spent to much to keep aging vets. In both cases they ended up failing this year because of that lack of depth and having all up front talent. Inadequate backups hindered their ability to win in when injures took their toll. This off-season both teams are scrabbling to restructure as many contracts as possible in hopes of retaining some of their FA's and signing the draft picks. However, both teams had to let their depth go a little last year and more so this year. Both teams also may lose major pieces on their teams because they can no longer afford to keep them (Wallace and Pouha). This is what happens. First your depth goes, then you start losing core pieces until the team is forced to either eat the larger contracts to make room or rely on JAGs in starting roles until you can get out from those contracts
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    I forget who said it...Marv Levy? Depth is a wonderful thing until you have to use it. I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's your QB that wins you the vast majority of your games (if you have an exceptional one) and if you have that your depth/way your team is constructed looks better than it is.
     
    In Pittsburgh's case their QB went down with the ankle injury and when he came back he was essentially done. In the Jets case their QB was terrible and it couldn't save the fact that their team was springing holes. In our case we were severely tested depth wise on defense and we ended up with the last ranked defense in the NFL - it was masked greatly by high end talent on offense and a couple of starters coming back from injury later in the year.

    I understand you have to have depth and draft well, but I wouldn't mind seeing us spend to the cap limit this year and even (heaven forbid) plan for right now, rather than the future while we have Brady still in his prime. When you're playing ten million under the cap (like last season) it tells me that they indeed in fact could of signed a couple more impact type front seven players and we could of won that damn Super Bowl. I don't want to see another year of fiscal responsibility while Brady is in his prime. 

    What does a guy like Peppers make, or Osi or Cullen Jenkins? It can't be 10 million per...we could of signed one of these guys and it would of helped us greatly. Instead we went low risk/high reward and signed a cheap bum in Haynesworth, that cost us nothing and gave us nothing. We signed a low risk (cost wise) guy in Ellis and he gave us the same thing...virtually nothing. 
     
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Off the top of my head ,Peppers signed a 6/91.5 contract. 41.5 guaranteed , 40 guaranteed over the first 3 years. OSI is pretty cheap , he's in the last year of his contract , set to make 4.5 I believe. It could be 3.5. And I think Jenkins was around 6-8 million per. I think he's taking a pay cut as we speak. Anyway you cut this team desperately needs a pass rush. There's no debate , no denying it. This team is too talented to let opportunities slip by because we lack in 1-2 areas. We need to either develop or trade/sign a OLB/DE , as well as Wr that beat you outside the numbers.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I forget who said it...Marv Levy? Depth is a wonderful thing until you have to use it. I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's your QB that wins you the vast majority of your games (if you have an exceptional one) and if you have that your depth/way your team is constructed looks better than it is.   In Pittsburgh's case their QB went down with the ankle injury and when he came back he was essentially done. In the Jets case their QB was terrible and it couldn't save the fact that their team was springing holes. In our case we were severely tested depth wise on defense and we ended up with the last ranked defense in the NFL - it was masked greatly by high end talent on offense and a couple of starters coming back from injury later in the year. I understand you have to have depth and draft well, but I wouldn't mind seeing us spend to the cap limit this year and even (heaven forbid) plan for right now, rather than the future while we have Brady still in his prime. When you're playing ten million under the cap (like last season) it tells me that they indeed in fact could of signed a couple more impact type front seven players and we could of won that damn Super Bowl. I don't want to see another year of fiscal responsibility while Brady is in his prime.  What does a guy like Peppers make, or Osi or Cullen Jenkins? It can't be 10 million per...we could of signed one of these guys and it would of helped us greatly. Instead we went low risk/high reward and signed a cheap bum in Haynesworth, that cost us nothing and gave us nothing. We signed a low risk (cost wise) guy in Ellis and he gave us the same thing...virtually nothing.   
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    At the beginning of the season they are usually 5-10mil under the cap but they use that money to extend their players and sign players through the year. Usually by the end of the year they are close to the cap. This year they ended up 5-7mil under but that money can be used against this years cap so it was a special case.

    Usually though the Pats are always close to the cap every year. Though I do want some bigger names in FA I also don't think you need to go crazy and sign the biggest names in the FA market. Mid-Tier moves can be just as affective with BB as coach but they don't even do that most of the time, preferring to go more towards the aging vets and reclamation projects. What I want is players closer to their prime and less players over their prime or need to be greatly coached up.

    Truthfully I think the majority of the money so go to the players already on the team who are proven to work in the systems. I don't want to overpay for them and you have to know when to let them walk but I'd rather they spend the cash resigning Welker and extending Gronk and Hern sometime in the middle of next year locking them up long term before they even get the thought of hitting FA in the same year the cap is expected to rise quickly. Trying to get them for $.80 on the $1 some point next season then after 13'. That's why when I try to plan out how much cap space they might have to work with I try to plan on 3-5mil be spent during the season to extend players and sign players off the street
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : Not necessarily. Even before Ben's restructure they were 5mil over with the other restructures. Ben's might just get the under the cap. They will still need to do more restructures and/or releasing players before they can get far enough under the cap to match and potential offers Wallace might see
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    And their cap number now does not include anything for Wallace, nevermind 9-10 million. Then their rookies. Then filling out a 53 man roster.

    They have a LOOOOOOOONG way to go.

    Resigning Wallace may set the rest of the team back a year or two. Decision making time.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : At the beginning of the season they are usually 5-10mil under the cap but they use that money to extend their players and sign players through the year. Usually by the end of the year they are close to the cap. This year they ended up 5-7mil under but that money can be used against this years cap so it was a special case. Usually though the Pats are always close to the cap every year. Though I do want some bigger names in FA I also don't think you need to go crazy and sign the biggest names in the FA market. Mid-Tier moves can be just as affective with BB as coach but they don't even do that most of the time, preferring to go more towards the aging vets and reclamation projects. What I want is players closer to their prime and less players over their prime or need to be greatly coached up. Truthfully I think the majority of the money so go to the players already on the team who are proven to work in the systems. I don't want to overpay for them and you have to know when to let them walk but I'd rather they spend the cash resigning Welker and extending Gronk and Hern sometime in the middle of next year locking them up long term before they even get the thought of hitting FA in the same year the cap is expected to rise quickly. Trying to get them for $.80 on the $1 some point next season then after 13'. That's why when I try to plan out how much cap space they might have to work with I try to plan on 3-5mil be spent during the season to extend players and sign players off the street
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I agree that building with mid level players that are in their prime or are heading towards their prime is a great way to build or improve your team during free agency. In my opinion they didn't do that the past couple of seasons, weather that was because of price or just a plain lack of availability of these type of players I'm not sure.
     
    I remember in 96 (Belichick was a secondary coach) they dramatically improved that team during the off season with mid level guys...Shawn Jefferson, Wille Clay and they did it again in 03...Rodney Harrison, Ted Washington. We need that this off season. 
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I agree that building with mid level players that are in their prime or are heading towards their prime is a great way to build or improve your team during free agency. In my opinion they didn't do that the past couple of seasons, weather that was because of price or just a plain lack of availability of these type of players I'm not sure.   I remember in 96 (Belichick was a secondary coach) they dramatically improved that team during the off season with mid level guys...Shawn Jefferson, Wille Clay and they did it again in 03...Rodney Harrison, Ted Washington. We need that this off season. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    I agree that's why I'm looking at players like Langford, R Marshall (CB from Ari), maybe Robinson (WR from Dal). They are younger players who should be entering their prime that won't get top 10 money but will still add talent to the team. You can still then add some upper talent too. Lloyd won't cost top 5 WR money but more then a Robinson, Griffin at FS will be a higher paid S, Amhand Brooks OLB might not get top 5 money but he will get top 10.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : And their cap number now does not include anything for Wallace, nevermind 9-10 million. Then their rookies. Then filling out a 53 man roster. They have a LOOOOOOOONG way to go. Resigning Wallace may set the rest of the team back a year or two. Decision making time.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

         The Steelers have just restructured Ben Roethlisberger's contract, clearing $8mil. in cap space. They are doing everything in their power to keep Wallace: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_783301.html  
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]This is the most overblown story of the offseason. 1. Pitt is in deep crap wherther or not they get players to "restructure". 2. Pitt needs Wallace more than we do. 3. Wallace is not leaving Pitt. Pitt is in trouble, as is Baltimore.  Cincy has a chance to leapfrog past both with good cap room, a younger team, and an ascending young QB. Each Pitt and Balt bettter hope their older players on D hanging on, play lights out for 16 games next year and don't have any injuries.   Slightly delusional.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]


    Agree 100%. The Ravens and Steelers  have to be looking over the shoulder to an improving Bengels team that has two firsts. They could draft an RB that replaces Benson and another impact player on the O or D. The Bengals could also manipulate the draft for better picks. Farrior and Foote could be gone in PITT. Will guys like Harrison and Woodley restructure ? Maybe one of those two, but I doubt both. And there could easily be a team that pushes up the contract value of Wallace by dangling a first. Both PITT and BALT seem to be getting older and the Bengels seem very young (Rivers, Dalton, Green, all their young players are reasonably good).

    Wallace will want to get paid. Could be anyone giving him the money. It seems like Wallace only runs 2 or 3 patterns and the Pats brass generally like WRs that can run the route tree. Every WR wants to play with Brady that doesn;t mean he's a good fit schematically.

     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Saying the guy only runs 2-3 routes is just wrong. Is he a great route runner , no , but he's improved tons since his rookie year. Not sure if you have the ticket , but it allows you to do some homework on other teams. I was fortunate enough to see about 12-13 games this year. The guy can and does run about 5-6 routes. I'm not even saying the pats should break the bank to get him , but too many people here have no idea what their talking about. As for what you said about the Pats brass and wrs etc. , that's wrong as well. Every team wants their wrs to be versatile etc. , but that's not the case with our wrs , at all. Please tell how many routes Welker runs? What about Branch , ocho etc? The most versatile Wrs we have are TE's. We have three wrs that basically do the same thing. In fact , all of TE's , Wrs , basically do the same thing.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Big ben restructred his deal...to keep him kill the talk
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Though he's not as tall as I would like his speed makes up for it. he could work for the right price.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]Saying the guy only runs 2-3 routes is just wrong. Is he a great route runner , no , but he's improved tons since his rookie year. Not sure if you have the ticket , but it allows you to do some homework on other teams. I was fortunate enough to see about 12-13 games this year. The guy can and does run about 5-6 routes. I'm not even saying the pats should break the bank to get him , but too many people here have no idea what their talking about. As for what you said about the Pats brass and wrs etc. , that's wrong as well. Every team wants their wrs to be versatile etc. , but that's not the case with our wrs , at all. Please tell how many routes Welker runs? What about Branch , ocho etc? The most versatile Wrs we have are TE's. We have three wrs that basically do the same thing. In fact , all of TE's , Wrs , basically do the same thing.
    Posted by 1guy1sharp[/QUOTE]
    First of all it's tough to see a receiver's route tree from the television set - which is why it cracks me up when people say stuff about coverages and routes...how can you see that if you're not at the game? I'm not picking on you, just the people that say this guy only runs three routes. For a guy that runs three routes, he dictated how we defended the Steeler's offense this year and it turned out to not be pretty. This guy scared the crap out of me in that game, I can't believe how explosive he is.

    How many routes are there? There's the in and out cuts (deep and shallow), the curls (deep and shallow), the fly and posts, cross, drags, slants and a boat load of screens. The part of our offense's routes is the sight adjustments our receivers make based on coverage/blitzes, etc. I do think a guy like Wallace could possibly struggle in something like this. You watch Brady work with Welker and Branch and it's obvious that there is more than just slants going on out there.

    I'll tell you what though, you don't see too many deep outs in this offense, I don't think Brady is all that good at those passes. Bledsoe used to hit those in his sleep - he couldn't hit a slant to save his life, but man did he have the arm to hit deep outs.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    I would love to see the pats resign welker and get Wallace... I heard on a website that the pats will have a little more than 20m dollars in cap space... I respectfully disagree with some people who say they should let welker walk and sign Wallace, the more weapons the merrier
     

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