Mike Wallace a Patriot?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : Yes, paying Holmes 10 million, Cromartie 8 after wasting a draft pick for him, drafting Wilson in a panic move in the 1st rd, and then needing to panic to replace Shaun Ellis with Wilkerson and now possibly Kenrick Ellis at NT with Pouha with Revis to hold out? Umm, yeah, I'd say the Jets have themselves in a massive pickle. And that doens't even count the lack of leadership and the discord in the locker room.  You asking me if I watch the Jets, yet I called their collapse 2 years ago? Really? Outside of Sanchez blowing, even paying D'Bustashaw Fergsuon the most for a Tackle in the NFL after he yet again led the O LIne in sacks allowed, all adds up. You sound just like Phat Rex which is a very, very bad thing as everyone knows here. He's one of the dumber people that every posted here. lol Also, why would Denver needing to cheat the cap to try to cheat and pull one over on 31 other teams not prove the point that balancing a payroll over 53 players, is in fact, very difficult? You're still a moron for trying to take me on. You've never won before, so just quit while you're ahead. lmao
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
    Hahaha! You're off your meds again aren't you? Listen, calm down, and take a pill before you get banned again. I have too won plenty of arguments with you - it's just that those accounts have been deleted/terminated.

    I didn't bring up the Jets, you did...it appears to be your binky - along with bashing Brady. I'll tell you what, you put Brady and Belichick on the Jets right now and they make it to the Super Bowl. Come to think of it you can put Brady and Belichick on most any roster and they make it to the Super Bowl - sorry fiscal responsibility has nothing to do with our success - it's the coach and QB.
     
    The reason they don't spend big every year is financial, it's not because it's the best way to team build. It's a bussiness move, why can't you see that? Do you think it was really necessary to be so fiscal for the "impending doom" from the new collective bargaining agreement now? For Christ's sake we're 20 million under the cap! If we had one more decent guy up front in our front seven or one wide receiver that could run, we would of won it all this year.

    Listen if I owned the Pats I wouldn't hand out huge signing bonus after signing bonus either, but I sure would do my best to convince people that we would get in salary cap hell if we did. What team in the NFL has been ruined by spending too much? I mean a team that spent so much that it absolutely crushed them for more than a season? I'm sure you can find team after team that blew it with top ten picks and thus ruined their team's foundation, but the salary cap is designed to be manipulated. Do you really think the NFL wants teams not to spend and lose every year? It's part of the reason we have so much parity - teams are pretty even right now - they've been for a long time. The teams that make big splashes (and miss) in free agency, are right back at it the following year.

    For God's sake, why do you think guys get cut every single day? Because they aren't performing to their contract and they want to sign someone else (chances are for more money) that will. Are you that much of an idiot?
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]I think it may have been Mike Reiss or maybe Zolak.  Yes, it was stated that Welker was looking for top tier WR money. Yes.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    And you make the assumtion that is Fitz money? Your crazy. Big stretch. Fitz contract dwarfs all others. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]Umm, if they tag Welker, which they probably will, they only have 10.5 which is to resign Carter, Anderson, etc, and then they'll need around 5 million for rookies. You are asking me if I am an idiot on this topic? lol! Didn't you also just say "people restructure" all the time and it "can be done" over a weekend?  LOL!! What if the player or players don't want to restructure? What if they're like Darelle Revis and have all kinds of leverage over the team?  Bozo, I have more of a handle on this than you could ever dream of.  NE was one of the wisest teams going itno the lockout and coming out of it. Period.  It's not a "business decision", it's called having a clue, not being an idiot and wisely planning ahead. It's very rare for any team to have some decent cap room coming out of a SB appearance AND have two 1st rd and two 2nd rd picks.   Forget rare, it's flat out unheard of. I can just see the troll threads around draft time asking how we "cheat" and all this other garbage, as the jealousy continues to rage. You, Babe and Prolate are the ones who need meds. Did you just ask what team has been ruined by spending too much? LOL!!!    Eagles, Jets, Raiders, etc, etc?     That's just in recent years.   Pittsburgh has way too many bloated contracts.   Baltimore has to pay Rice.  Can they? San Diego is another.  Dallas is another. Redskins another. Houston has spent 10 years building into what they have, but are they in trouble with Mario Williams and Foster?    Chicago Bears.  16 million for Peppers and need to pay Forte with an aging Urlacher and Briggs, the latter still whining. Shall I keep going? You're an uneducated rube on this topic.  "Teams who have misses in FA are right back at it the following year".... LMAO!!! Seek help. Please. For the board's sake. Are you Dan Snyder?
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
    I think you're mixing up spending lavishly with just plain old not picking the right players or not having a QB and coach to cover it all up. You just mentioned a boat load of teams that have free agents they will have to sign - most of them will do just that - if the players are worth it. What I'm sure you'll see is teams, cutting players and restructuring contracts...it's already happening.

    When Brady and Belichick leave we'll see exactly how effective frugal spending works out for us. I imagine we'll be spending money all over the place to make up for QB's that won't be able to single handily win games for us, or coaches that won't get the upper hand against other teams.

    I'm just so scared of this high spending salary cap wasteland you prophesize and warn us all about...I'm going to watch the games with the light on! LOL. 

    PS. Do you understand just how arrogant and conceded you sound on a regular basis?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Welker and his contract expectations:

    Of COURSE he's going to say he wants top money! He has more receptions than anyone over the past 4 seasons. It's negotiating 101, ask for the top, and work from there. Why start at saying "I think I'm worth 7 per year", then you've given up negotiating room. Now, what he actually BELIEVES will determine a lot.

    Brady and WRs not "getting on the same page":

    I can only think of two examples: Ocho and Galloway. Pretty much any other WR (other than rookies) to come in here have had little trouble assimilating: Welker, Moss, Branch, Gaffney, Stallworth, even Caldwell. The WR corps has actually had surprisingly little turnover considering the lack of top end talent. So, that being said, Ocho has made people gunshy, but in reality, few have problems getting on the same page, even extend that to TEs like Baker and Crumpler.

    Compensation for signing him:

    1st rounder, #31. Not open to debate. If the Pats and PIT work out a deal seperately from that, that's a different conversation.

    ------

    I would love to see an aggressive play and force PITs hand for many reasons. As a somewhat relevant side note, I wonder what happens with Matt Light, and his 8 million dollar cap hit? I could see him restructure to cut that in half or so, that money alone could account for the rookies to be signed.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Pats have space to make it front-heavy. If those numbers end up being correct, I would sign him in an instant (5/47ish).

    15 signing, 5mil roster bonus, 5mil 1st year salary would price him well out of PIT at a 13mil cap hit, but it would get less after that. Structuring anything close to the franchise tag number could open the door for PIT to match.

    For a change, it would be nice to get a known commodity for a NE first round pick. When was the last time that happened? Mayo? Well, we don't have a top 10 pick this year.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]Pats have space to make it front-heavy. If those numbers end up being correct, I would sign him in an instant (5/47ish). 15 signing, 5mil roster bonus, 5mil 1st year salary would price him well out of PIT at a 13mil cap hit, but it would get less after that. Structuring anything close to the franchise tag number could open the door for PIT to match. For a change, it would be nice to get a known commodity for a NE first round pick. When was the last time that happened? Mayo? Well, we don't have a top 10 pick this year.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    The problem is Wallace isn't a known commodity in NE's system.

    There was a reason why Wallace wasn't taken and Tate was. I don't know what it was that made them choose Tate over Wallace but maybe they felt Wallace wouldn't fit the system or understand the system.

    47mil/5yr is a huge risk to take if he doesn't pan out. Not to mention if the Ravens offer him that we might have to offer more to get him here. That much cash would surely mean that Welker would not be back or if they bring him back for 1 year under the tag it really limits who else you could get in FA
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    The reason that Wallace went where he did in the draft was that he was considered raw.  He had 101 catches in his college career with 39 in his senior season.  It wasn't that he couldn't pick up the system.  I think it was also because they were looking for a receiver who could produce after the catch and improve the return game.  Tate was a very good return man in college on both punts and kicks (Wallace only did kicks).  It could also be that they had them closely rated and Tate's special teams play gave him a slight edge as he could contribute something right away while developing as a receiver.

    The players who haven't succeeded in "the system" have been rookies who have never done anything anywhere (Bethel, C. Jackson, and Tate) or players who had nothing left in the tank (Ocho, Galloway).  Mediocre guys who could play have done well (Caldwell, Gaffney, WELKER).  Guys who played well in it haven't done worse elsewhere (Branch, Givens).  One very good receiver thrived in it (Moss).  The problem isn't necessarily players not understanding the system or the playbook , although Rhodes scholar Ochocinco struggled with it.  Ask Brandon Lloyd about this offense - he's gonna make milllions off it.

    All I'm really trying to say through all this is that I don't think a talented receiver like Mike Wallace would struggle at all in this system.  I said in a previous post that his presnap and sight reads are easier than some other guys because the defenses really have to show their hand due to his speed.  I still don't know if I would make the deal to get Wallace, I'm just saying that wondering if he can grasp the system wouldn't seem to be an issue.

    Looking at free agent receivers that might be available, some names have been thrown around.  Reggie Wayne scares me.  He is the exact type of player who has struggled here - a guy toward the end of his career who has trouble getting separation.  His play had declined somewhat when Peyton was playing and the wheels came off this past year.  Some of that can be attributed to poor QB play, but it makes it that much harder to see where the decline really stands right now.  Brandon Lloyd would make sense on a short term deal if he would be willing to do it.  I know he's not a "vertical threat" to take the top off the defense, but he runs good routes and gets open on the outside.  Laurent Robinson had a breakout year last year but had been invisible and hurt in St Louis and Atlanta.  Colston is a gamer who will probably be too expensive.  Vincent Jackson is also a good player but will probably command more in salary than the Patriots would be comfortable with.  He's one bad move away from a serious suspension.  Meachem seems a lot like Donte Stallworth to me.  A deep threat high draft choice who's been given the opportunity and never really put it all together.  Manningham will get too much money for a great catch.  He can make some good plays but has drawn the ire of Eli for running incorrect routes and dropping balls.  His inconsistent play is what got Victor Cruz on the field initially.  Josh Morgan and Andre Caldwell could be two low money guys who the Pats could take a shot on.  Other guys like Stevie Johnson, Desean Jackson, and Dwayne Bowe I assume will get signed by their own teams or franchised.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbungle. Show mrbungle's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    http://goo.gl/lxjNA
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from crankeeyankee3. Show crankeeyankee3's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    I agree the Patriots need a legitimate deep threat and Wallace would certainly be that, but as Brady gets older he's going to want to get rid of the ball faster and faster not later and later.  So if a guy like Wallace is in the team's plans, get ready for a draft full of offensive lineman.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joel63. Show Joel63's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

     I've been lobbying for this from the moment Pittsburgh took him with the pick right after we took Brandon Tate. Ugh!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    There's a lot of talk about how we shouldn't be focusing on a wideout that will be a deep threat because of the risk to Brady staying in the pocket longer than he should, etc. To me these are all good points, but I think what a young explosive receiver also will bring is separation on ALL the routes he runs - therefore making throws easier to complete against good secondaries.
     
    When you watch the game against the Ravens it was clear that no one was open for much of that game - if you add a guy with some explosiveness to his legs there would be some separation. Just because you have a receiver with deep speed doesn't mean that is the only way he can help you (never mind how much guys like this open up things for others).

    When I watch guys like Brees and Rogers play, it amazes me how much easier their lives are because the guys they are throwing to are younger/faster...the windows those guys throw into are much larger because of it.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]There's a lot of talk about how we shouldn't be focusing on a wideout that will be a deep threat because of the risk to Brady staying in the pocket longer than he should, etc. To me these are all good points, but I think what a young explosive receiver also will bring is separation on ALL the routes he runs - therefore making throws easier to complete against good secondaries.   When you watch the game against the Ravens it was clear that no one was open for much of that game - if you add a guy with some explosiveness to his legs there would be some separation. Just because you have a receiver with deep speed doesn't mean that is the only way he can help you (never mind how much guys like this open up things for others). When I watch guys like Brees and Rogers play, it amazes me how much easier their lives are because the guys they are throwing to are younger/faster...the windows those guys throw into are much larger because of it.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you even though I have been a against bringing in a big name "field stretcher" I wouldn't want a one dimensional talent like V-Jax or Wallace(Wallace may have improved I'm not sure) If we get a receiver I would prefer a guy that can catch a ball over the middle and get separation. Steal Marques Colston from N.O!!! The guy lead the NFL in % of targets caught at 75% That is impressive.

    I just wonder if we can sign WW AND that type of impact player/ or if we really need both of them. I would prefer WW and then sign a lower end burner who can take the top off the defense. Reason being WW and Brady together is more valuable then any big name with no chemistry. Factor in the amount of money it would take to pay both of them and to me the choice is clear.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    I'm on the opposite theory than you Truechamp. You figure they would sign WW and another wide out. I'd rather let Welker walk and use his money on a top tier outside WR and another wide out vs Welker and X outside receiver. They already have Gronk and Hernandez to work the middle area  and Edelman can go right back in the slot and work that area too. He's done it before. The top tier outside WR also gets Edelman Gronk and Hernandez more single coverages. A good outside threat also makes it more difficult for teams to move safties up to stop the run as well.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1guy1sharp. Show 1guy1sharp's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Sorry champ , but if you don't if he's improved or not why comment. Saying the guy is a one trick pony makes you look like an uneducated fan. Wallace was a top ten Wr last year and top five Wr this year. I mean how does someone spend all day and all night in a football forum , but not know football? Just the other day I.heard some genius say his catches come off Ben running around , playground style. Not surprising that guy has been wrong about him for the last three years. Along with many other things. The guy would be a great fit in any system. He can run reverses , quick outs , slugo's , post , go's etc. He's threat to put up 6 anytime you can get the ball in his hands.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

         It looks like Wallace will be available for a #1 pick: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_782952.html

         The Steelers are working feverishly to establish some cap room. Currently, they are about $5mil. over the cap: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_782837.html
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]Sorry champ , but if you don't if he's improved or not why comment. Saying the guy is a one trick pony makes you look like an uneducated fan. Wallace was a top ten Wr last year and top five Wr this year. I mean how does someone spend all day and all night in a football forum , but not know football? Just the other day I.heard some genius say his catches come off Ben running around , playground style. Not surprising that guy has been wrong about him for the last three years. Along with many other things. The guy would be a great fit in any system. He can run reverses , quick outs , slugo's , post , go's etc. He's threat to put up 6 anytime you can get the ball in his hands.
    Posted by 1guy1sharp[/QUOTE]

    Sorry I guess I looked at what he has done in his career and based my opinion on that. He was also on my FF team( I have a feeling you know FF!) the last 2 years so I payed a bit of attention to him and watched his production tail off after mid season.

    I also pay attention to his growth from year to year.

    2009163975619.46062811
    201016601,25721.056104810
    201116721,19316.69585411



    Looks to me that despite catching 12 more balls he was a bit more productive in 2010. Perhaps he was involved more in running routes this season as opposed to primarily going deep in 2010? In either case I would not put him in the "elite" status as you apparently think with your glowing endorsement. What makes you say he can run the entire route tree? Are you his cousin or something?

    I am not sure how saying {he may have improved} means I don't know football? I guess you must know more because you said so?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    I'll take Belichicks words over yours TrueChamp

    "He's a big play receiver. He's really fast. Nobody is going to catch him, so you have to be careful about how much space he gets when he catches the ball," Belichick said. "I think he's improved a lot from when we played them last year, just as a football player, his patience and route technique. He has great speed but he also is getting better at route technique, setting up routes, using his speed, changing his pace. He's good after the catch with the ball in his hands. He breaks tackles and eludes people, does a nice job of going up and getting the ball in the deep part of the field, he's taken it away from some defensive backs. I'd say overall [he] improved his route running in the red area where there's less space. He still is a key guy down there. He did a lot of things well last year, doing them well this year and even better. [He's made] plays in just about every game. He stretches the field but he can also take a short pass and turn it into a long run, so you have to defend him from the line of scrimmage to the back of the end zone and from sideline to sideline. He's a tough guy to match up on. He's done a good job. Obviously he's worked hard and he's being well coached and he's got a good quarterback and other good receivers to complement him. He's part of their very productive offense." 

    His impact would be obvious or did you not see the defense the Pats played against him gving him huge cushions leaving the middle wide open again and again. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Yeah, I never said he was a bad player, btw when is the last time BB said anything bad about a player he was going up against?


    I pay attention to facts like what 60 minutes did in the money part of the season....the last 8 games.

    Sun 11/6L 20-2346817.0251000.00011
    Sun 11/13W 24-176549.013023115.516000
    Sun 11/27W 13-92178.590000.00000
    Sun 12/4W 35-733812.71921-3-3.0-3000
    Thu 12/8W 14-345714.322012121.021000
    Mon 12/19L 3-2056613.2360000.00000
    Sat 12/24W 27-048220.5460000.00000
    Sun 1/1W 13-911111.0110000.0000 


    29 receptions for 393 yards and 3 tds. 6 scoreless games. Plus his 3 catches in the playoffs against the team Brady threw 6 tds against a week later wasn't a glowing endorsement of his clutch play.

    Anyway, I am not saying Wallace is a bad player by any means, but personally if we are going to invest 20-30 million dollars on 1 player or the other, I would rather have the guy who has led the league in receiving for the past 4 years despite playing with 2 different QB's.

    Not too mention the 1st rd pick the Steelers are trying to finagle,

    Just my opinion.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]Sorry champ , but if you don't if he's improved or not why comment. Saying the guy is a one trick pony makes you look like an uneducated fan. Wallace was a top ten Wr last year and top five Wr this year. I mean how does someone spend all day and all night in a football forum , but not know football? Just the other day I.heard some genius say his catches come off Ben running around , playground style. Not surprising that guy has been wrong about him for the last three years. Along with many other things. The guy would be a great fit in any system. He can run reverses , quick outs , slugo's , post , go's etc. He's threat to put up 6 anytime you can get the ball in his hands.
    Posted by 1guy1sharp[/QUOTE]

         They ignore the point that just the threat of a speedster like Wallace or DeSean Jackson would force the defense to drop the SS out of the box. This would make it easier to run the ball...and would free up the short to intermediate routes in the middle of the field that Brady is so good at, for the likes of Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker. 
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I agree with you even though I have been a against bringing in a big name "field stretcher" I wouldn't want a one dimensional talent like V-Jax or Wallace(Wallace may have improved I'm not sure) If we get a receiver I would prefer a guy that can catch a ball over the middle and get separation. Steal Marques Colston from N.O!!! The guy lead the NFL in % of targets caught at 75% That is impressive. I just wonder if we can sign WW AND that type of impact player/ or if we really need both of them. I would prefer WW and then sign a lower end burner who can take the top off the defense. Reason being WW and Brady together is more valuable then any big name with no chemistry. Factor in the amount of money it would take to pay both of them and to me the choice is clear.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
    Yeah I agree, it doesn't have to be Wallace or Jackson or Lloyd...it just has to be someone that can create separation...anyone that can shake coverage. It would be nice if the guy had some long speed and size, but I'm being picky here - in reality with our two tight ends and Welker we just need someone who can do more than Branch.
     
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