Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]Now, I've not searched out any sources but, this radio program I listened to today said that several rumors are going around about the Patriots getting him.  I know, I know, rumors. These guys usually don't talk about them but, they had heard about it several times in the course of the day. Talking about the franchise tag and how teams just have to let certain players go. Talk was going around that Pittsburgh couldn't keep him and that the Patriots would jump on him.  I tell you, maybe it will, maybe it won't happen but, Mike Wallace would be an absolute dream for Brady. Not only that, Steelers fans would grit their teeth down to the gums over it.  Costs? Sure but, we get Wallace and use up some big $$ on him then we could literally spend the whole draft on defense. Trade Hoyer for a pick or 2 as well. Wallace on the team changes everything IMO.  I for one would love to see it happen. Lloyd and others sound nice. Reggie Wayne would be nice but, let's face it, having a younger, faster player like Wallace, to me, is the way to go. Enough with the veteran WR's who have 1/4 of a tank left in them. We need a legit young talented WR that would surely enjoy playing for Brady. Having Gronk and Herandez along with Welker and Wallace? We'd be favorites again. How do you defend that group?
    Posted by mrbungle[/QUOTE]The rumor was started by Wallace himself so the source was reliable! Brandon Lloyd is a fait accompli provided Wallace doesn't sign with the Patriots as he and Josh seem to be connected at the hip...
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Wallace on NFL network indicated he would like to play for teams like the Patriots or the 49 ers. teams that have Super Bowl potential.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    And I would like to work for the Playboy mansion but unless I can live off of invites to parties and martini's that isn't going to happen.

    Wallace wants to get paid as a top WR. Usually getting paid at the top of your position as a FA and being on a SB team doesn't go hand and hand. Although 49ers would be a good destination for him. They do have some cap space to work with and need a WR badly but I can't envision the Pats breaking the bank for a position they historically never spent a large long term contract on. Esp, considering it might upset the chemistry in the locker room when the players find out the Pats spent a ton of money on WR not named Welker.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    I think it's worth mentioning that as Wallace's stats faded late in the season, Ben was progressively getting the sh!t kicked out of him, and the oline was getting more and more hurt.

    That's why stats DO lie, they need the full picture to be taken in context, the offense PIT was puting on the field as the season went along got worse and worse, mostly due to injuries.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    [QUOTE]And I would like to work for the Playboy mansion but unless I can live off of invites to parties and martini's that isn't going to happen. Wallace wants to get paid as a top WR. Usually getting paid at the top of your position as a FA and being on a SB team doesn't go hand and hand. Although 49ers would be a good destination for him. They do have some cap space to work with and need a WR badly but I can't envision the Pats breaking the bank for a position they historically never spent a large long term contract on. Esp, considering it might upset the chemistry in the locker room when the players find out the Pats spent a ton of money on WR not named Welker.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    I'm not saying we should go all in for Wallace, but I do think money needs to be spent this off season. You mention you don't think he'd be a good fit here, but that he would be a good fit for San Fran...why is that? Is it because they aren't afraid to spend the money or because you are convinced that we won't spend it? You say the 49ers have cap space to work with - so do we.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I'm not saying we should go all in for Wallace, but I do think money needs to be spent this off season. You mention you don't think he'd be a good fit here, but that he would be a good fit for San Fran...why is that? Is it because they aren't afraid to spend the money or because you are convinced that we won't spend it? You say the 49ers have cap space to work with - so do we.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    To be fair SF's D is stacked so you could argue that an offensive playmaker like Wallace would be more of a priority for them.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I'm not saying we should go all in for Wallace, but I do think money needs to be spent this off season. You mention you don't think he'd be a good fit here, but that he would be a good fit for San Fran...why is that? Is it because they aren't afraid to spend the money or because you are convinced that we won't spend it? You say the 49ers have cap space to work with - so do we.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    The reason he won't be a good fit is actually a number of reasons and none of them actually relate to his ability as a WR.

    1) Welkers contract. Welker is due a payday. He is a team and fan favorite so if you sign Wallace to a big contract a couple things would happen. Either you would have to give more money to Welker to prevent ticking him off or showing a bad image to your players. The Pats have worked long and hard to build up a reputation that they take care of their own guys if they work hard for it. Signing Wallace to big time money contradicts that image unless Welker gets paid more. If Welker isn't resigned or doesn't get a long term deal because they signed Wallace then you are risking a fracture in the clubhouse from guys who support Welker and might see Wallace as the guy who took Welkers payday after all the good Welker did for the team

    2) Other areas of need. Yes the Pats could use an outside the numbers threat but the O wasn't horrible last year. The D however, was inconsistent. One of the most glaring areas of concern is in the secondary. Rooks usually never have a lot of effect in the secondary their first year so given the youth the best way to improve to the secondary is to add some top tier talent in the DB core. What you would give Wallace could actually get you a top end FS and a solid starting CB.

    3) Past history. The contract Wallace is most likely to command will be the largest BB would have given to a FA from another team in his history. There is a good reason BB doesn't give out contracts like that. For one odd reason or another it's hard for players to work into the Pats system. Whether that is because they are use to certain systems and unless they can breakdown and start from scratch most top end players don't play up to the same level when they come to the Pats. The few times the Pats gave out relatively large contracts they have been burnt (Colvin due to injury, Thomas). The Pats seem to prefer lower risk prove it type of contracts before committing longer term to outside the organization FA's. I doubt Wallace would take a smaller signing bonus with a back loaded deal to protect the Pats if he doesn't workout

    The reason he'd fit better for the 49ers is because they have the greater need at WR and don't need to worry about POing the players in the locker room if they sign Wallace to a larger deal.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    [QUOTE]I don't think SF has the cap room to accomodate Wallace.  I don't know why this thread exists.  Wallace ain't coming to NE.  Maybe GB clips James Jones and Brandon Lloyd doesn't want too much money.   That would allow NE to waive goodbye to Ochocinco, save some money, keep Welker for one more year and then turn to a future of Lloyd and James Jones on the flanks. Once NE tags Welker, assuming that's what happens, NE won't have as much to spend as everyone thinks.  They'll have some, but that extra 10 mill (approx) would go real quick, including signing rookies after the draft. Good news is, the rookie cap should defray some costs a bit, as will some potential retirees like Light and Faulk.  With Wright being released, that helps too. Should be interesting to see how BB does it yet again. No one is better using the draft and FA together.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    Russ,

    if you are thinking the $20mil was all they had well it's actually is the wrong number.

    They can carry over unspent cap from last year so that's and extra 5mil (estimate from reports true left over value unknown currently), plus the 3mil they saved from Wright and Ohrn being released. They are also allowed to burrow 1.5mil for a vet salary into next years cap.

    For other potential releases/retires/trades:

    Ocho after June 1st they save 3mil in cap this year and 3 mil next year (or if before June 1st 1.5mil this year 4.5mil next year)
    Light 5mil
    Barrett 1mil
    Waters 2.5mil
    Brace .75mil
    Brown .5mil
    Polite .7mil
    Arrington 2mil

    Then there are a whole host of .5mil contracts that could stay or go.

    So as of right now they could have anywhere from 25-38mil in cap space without restructuring a single player. Even tagging Welker and signing the draft picks they should have 15+mil to work with when all is said and done. They will also have 10.5mil in dead money coming off the books after the 2012 season so partially back loading contract into 13' is possible with that extra room.

    There is plenty of money to tag Welker and get 2-3 top end players and still fill a roster with the reclamation projects and vets from other teams. Or then can get dozens of mid tier players and still be fairly safe in cap space.

    They've set themselves up well however, putting 2 max contract signing together (Welker tag and contracts with a 9+mil cap hit) would limit there ability to get higher talent players. They'd be signing more scrap heap type players instead of higher quality players.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Funny, I was railing for James Jones last year when he was acutually available.  I don't think GB is getting rid of him, they just re-signed him last year.  The more likely guy to walk is Driver, but I wouldn't be surprised if he came back for cheap since he's been there so long.  I've thought from the start that getting Mike Wallace was a pipe dream and I still think it is.  

    I keep reading comments about BB historically does this or that, but one thing about him is that he generally doesn't do what we think he's going to do.  Before he traded for Welker and Moss he had never done that.  Before he drafted Mankins in the first round he had never drafted an offensive lineman in the first.  Before he picked Mayo he had never picked a LB in the first.  BB seems to approach each offseason with the thought of improving the team however possible.  He looks for value.  That's what I got out of the Haynesworth deal.  If he came here and played like he did in Tennesee we get a steal, if not, we gave up very little to take a look.  The Moss deal in 07 was the same thing.  One obviously worked the other did not.  

    This Mike Wallace situation is something new.  There is no 1st and 3rd compensation level this year and Pittsburg is so strapped it can't use the franchise tag on Wallace. Half the league is out on this deal because they have high picks and would rather take their chances on their first round picks.  Another segment of the remaining group doesn't have the cap space or the need for a receiver.  This means that Wallace's contract may not get as outrageous as some of the players on the free market.  Does BB find value in getting a proven young WR for a 1st round pick and a large contract?   I think, financially, that it won't work.  It seems like if you sign him and Welker to long term contracts to go along with Brady and Mankins you may get into trouble when Gronk, Hernandez, Vollmer, and Solder need to get paid.

    On an unrelated note, did anyone see that the Jets decided to kick the can down the road with Ferguson.  Added an extra 3 million per to his cap number.  Anyone still wishing the Patriots were run the same as the Jets?
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    It's funny they guaranteed his 9mil this year in the form of the bonus so it only adds 1.16mil per a year for the remaining 6 years of the deal which saves them 7.5mil on the cap (they were hard against it before this restructure) but they only made it harder to cut Ferguson down the road. It's another game of kick the can in which they've already lost depth for it and can't get out from some bad contracts.

    BTW just found out that as of right now Sanchez will be the highest paid QB in 12' because of the restructure last year lol
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]Wallace on NFL network indicated he would like to play for teams like the Patriots or the 49 ers. teams that have Super Bowl potential.
    Posted by NEGAME2[/QUOTE]

         The Steelers realize how valuable a guy like Wallace is, and will likely find a way to keep him: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/colbert-we-want-mike-wallace-to-finish-career-in-pittsburgh/
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Well, the way I see it is if they don't get Wallace, they should draft a WR and use FA money on a Mario Wiliams. 

    OK, maybe wishful thinking but, both players are young and proven. MW would be expensive but, what if he takes less to come to NE? 

    I could live with that. ;-)
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    [QUOTE]I don't think SF has the cap room to accomodate Wallace.  I don't know why this thread exists.  Wallace ain't coming to NE.  Maybe GB clips James Jones and Brandon Lloyd doesn't want too much money.   That would allow NE to waive goodbye to Ochocinco, save some money, keep Welker for one more year and then turn to a future of Lloyd and James Jones on the flanks. Once NE tags Welker, assuming that's what happens, NE won't have as much to spend as everyone thinks.  They'll have some, but that extra 10 mill (approx) would go real quick, including signing rookies after the draft. Good news is, the rookie cap should defray some costs a bit, as will some potential retirees like Light and Faulk.  With Wright being released, that helps too. Should be interesting to see how BB does it yet again. No one is better using the draft and FA together.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    Yeah you're right I don't know why this thread exists too, we should go back to talking about the immortal Matt Roth and Leigh Bodden. Maybe we should also concentrate on the impending doom of the labor strike and how 32 guys that own the league are going to sign an agreement in which they'll all be put into "salary cap hell". I just pissed myself:) 
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In response to "Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?": [QUOTE]I love how this 1guy1sharp character refers to Wallace's bloated stats and averages as top 5 production and then clearly has no idea how Pitt's system is night and day compared to NE's. We don't need low IQ WRs who run 5 routes running around waiting to get open on fly patterns for a 35 year old Brady with a severe passing addiction. Stick to fantasy football, kidlings. Leave the big boy football talk up to the big boys. Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE] I love how you called him a one trick pony. You couldn't be more wrong and now you look foolish. I love how a few months ago you said he only ran two routes , now its five. I love how you get banned , have no life , job , girl etc. and keep coming back. How sad is your life that bdc is like air to you. When's the last time you saw sunlight pal?
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : That doesn't surprise anyone here. You morons who are in love with every flashy player in everuy other city think that the cap does't affect why that player (Wallace) is even potentially available. Oh, the irony.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    Why he's available? Have you seen Pittsburgh's roster? Lol....it's not like they're void of talent. They have talent at every conceivable position - that costs money dufus! God you are dumb.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : I don't care if he runs 3 routes, or 5 or 6, they're all the same kind of route. He's also mentally challenged like DeSean Jackson, so they aren't fits here.  I see sunlight right now. I am off to the gym shortly with the top down in this nice 75 degree weather, and I'll retreat home to make a nice dinner for my gf after that.  You'll be eating a frozen pizza in the basement reading Mel Kiper's draft board. You couldn't be more of a moron.  Just because people are smarter than yourself, it doesn't give you the right to start lashing out. Back to the Madden video games, son.   Your types are the biggest geeks.  Ignore cost, the cap, the market and just drool over some really fast guy with bloated stats in a rudimentary style Pitt offense because he makes a big play once in a while.  Most of all his plays come with Roethlisberger breaking out the pocket. We don't have that luxury here.  Anyone who thinks Mike Wallace becomes a great route runner overnight is a moron.  Antonio Brown is more impressive than Wallace.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    Hahaha! Dude I just got this vision of you cruising down the Jersey Turnpike in a 97 chevy cavalier convertible, then getting home to the ol GF - making her a delicious lasagna.

    It will go like this....table is set, candles flickering shadows of hope, the smell of home cooked delight is in the air...you both look into eachother's eyes as you take the first bite (it's delicious, perfect).
     
    Then she asks, so honey how was your day? You say, "there is this impending doom (black cloud like) that is hovering over NFL owners and teams...I've made projections of why owners can't spend money on free agents. I also think I have this whole zone defense strategy thing down pat! Tomorrow I'm going to tell everyone that thinks Tom Brady is the reason why the pats win, just how dumb and pathetic they are!! I'm also going to ask everyone if they went to college and what they do for a living".

    "How was your day sugar bum?"
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : Why he's available? Have you seen Pittsburgh's roster? Lol....it's not like they're void of talent. They have talent at every conceivable position - that costs money dufus! God you are dumb.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    mthurl -

    They are desperately and I do mean desperately trying everything they can to keep their #1 receiver. Even after 5 major contract restructures they are still 5mil over. If they had so much talent then why are they so desperate to make as much room as possible to try to squeeze in a single WR?

    Not to mention that they won't be able to retain a number of their FA's and will still have to release players in order to clear enough cap to sign draft picks.

    Just like the Jets this past year Pit is going to have to sacrifice depth to keep some of their top players. You saw the lack of depth with both Pit and the Jets last year due to cap casualties from the year before. Both teams might have talent up front but no depth behind them and that's the effect of poor cap management.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    Wallace is my first choice of WR's and will be a little bummed out if he goes somewhere else.  With that said, I really see the Steelers doing everything the can to keep him. I won't be very surprised to see him stay with the Steelers.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    The comparison between the Jets and the Steelers is a little off base as far as I see it.  The Jets have traded up into the top of the draft taking on high salaries for big risks (Sanchez, Gholston) and these players (some, not all Ferguson) have not really panned out.  They signed some big name free agents and made trades to get Holmes, Pace, Scott, Burress, Jenkins, Edwards, Tomlinson, and Cromartie.  They've had to pay all these guys.  The Steelers on the other hand pretty much build through the draft.  They haven't brought in many free agents but just have had to pay their own guys.  Their mistakes have been made more in the structure of the contracts and some is just trying to keep the talent that they've drafted.

    This is why I worry about the Patriots signing high price free agents this year.  I look two and three years down the road and think that they are going to have trouble signing their own guys, let alone free agents with big contracts.  The reason they ended up trading Seymour is because they basically could only afford to keep him or Wilfork and with Seymour's injuries the two years before they could not justify spending big on him.
     
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    Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mike Wallace a Patriot? : Wallace means more to Pitt than he does to us. Period.  All his big plays are on broken plays, way down field. Our QB throws INTs in SBs when he runs out of the pocket on 1st down. lol
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

         Again...you fail to take into account how his very existence on the field forces a defense to play honest. No more 8 in the box...as they must keep their safeties deep. This opens things up for the running game, and the short and intermediate passing routes...that Tom Brady excels at throwing.

         Be it Wallace or someone else, the Pats must find a legitimate deep threat to prevent the better defenses from choking off their short passing attack.
     

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