Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:01 PM EDT
- mgraham
- Posts: 625
- First: 4/20/2009
- Last: 5/7/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
There is no way on earth Mike Wallace is on Wes Welker's level. No way. Mike Wallace is like a healty version of Kenny Britt or Miles Austin. These guys aren't top 5 in the league. Jesus. Mike Wallace is on Andre Johnson's level and changes how people play defense? Really?
Posted by BassFishing
Wallace has had the most TDs over 5o yds for 2 years in a row. He is a playmaker! Andre Johnson (inj?), Megatron ,Gronk, 2 more ? Fitsgerald maybe but not Cruz, White, Smith, even Welker, Jennings . Wallace is top 5.
that being said I think with the VJax signing ( and Welker tag) makes this a moot point now. I do not think we spend the $ and #31.
I do hope someone does offer him the cash and force the Steelers to match. SF, an NFC team would be great with either result.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:15 PM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
TDs over 50 yards? Great! Who cares if a WR has the most TDs over 50 yards? It's not surprising since he's really fast, but if Randy Moss never played here, no one here would be babbling about Mike Wallace.
MIke Wallace is better than future HOFer Wes Welker who caught over 100 balls from Brady and Cassel and who is double teamed, with teams changing gameplans for him?
Really???
When did this happen?
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats
posted at 3/13/2012 9:16 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats:
In Response to Mike Wallace to Pats : Tommy Streeter
Posted by kansaspatriot
and could be available at 49
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:21 PM EDT
- sportsbozo1
- Posts: 5163
- First: 4/8/2009
- Last: 5/21/2013
I like Wallace but he doesn't have the knowledge that Lloyd already has in this system. The problem of acquiring a guy from another system is the learning curve in adapting to this one. Lloyd has already been in this system for two seasons and with lesser skilled QB's so his curve is much shorter to reach the required level for success. Ask Ocho how easy the transformation is!
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats
posted at 3/13/2012 9:23 PM EDT
- unclealfie
- Posts: 1812
- First: 2/11/2007
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In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats:
In Response to Mike Wallace to Pats : Tommy Streeter
Posted by kansaspatriot
Can anyone name another player that would cost a first round pick before we even agreed on a salary for him?
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:36 PM EDT
One thing to consider is that the cap is going up next year, reportedly $20-30 million per team. VJ and Garcon got big contracts under this years cap, but salaries are only going up from here. Signing a guy to a 5 year contract this offseason that may seem like a big cap hit this year might actually look like a bargain next year and beyond. Just something to think about
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:39 PM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
I like Wallace but he doesn't have the knowledge that Lloyd already has in this system. The problem of acquiring a guy from another system is the learning curve in adapting to this one. Lloyd has already been in this system for two seasons and with lesser skilled QB's so his curve is much shorter to reach the required level for success. Ask Ocho how easy the transformation is!
Posted by sportsbozo1
Don't tell the video gamers here that.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:40 PM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
One thing to consider is that the cap is going up next year, reportedly $20-30 million per team. VJ and Garcon got big contracts under this years cap, but salaries are only going up from here. Signing a guy to a 5 year contract this offseason that may seem like a big cap hit this year might actually look like a bargain next year and beyond. Just something to think about
Posted by BostonSportsFan111
I believe it's 2014 when it goes up.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:50 PM EDT
- Ender587
- Posts: 288
- First: 9/1/2010
- Last: 8/20/2012
First half of last season, Mike Wallace was a top 3 WR. He trailed at the end of the year, did defenses figure out how to play him or where the steelers just not utalizing him?
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:54 PM EDT
- mgraham
- Posts: 625
- First: 4/20/2009
- Last: 5/7/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
First half of last season, Mike Wallace was a top 3 WR. He trailed at the end of the year, did defenses figure out how to play him or where the steelers just not utalizing him?
Posted by Ender587
healthy Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown !
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 9:57 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : I believe it's 2014 when it goes up.
Posted by BassFishing
You are correct.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/11/as-expected-cap-comes-in-at-120-6-million/
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 10:00 PM EDT
- TexasPat
- Posts: 2371
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In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
First half of last season, Mike Wallace was a top 3 WR. He trailed at the end of the year, did defenses figure out how to play him or where the steelers just not utalizing him?
Posted by Ender587
Or did opposing teams game plan to stop him, by playing their safeties deep, and double-teaming him?
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 10:01 PM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
First half of last season, Mike Wallace was a top 3 WR. He trailed at the end of the year, did defenses figure out how to play him or where the steelers just not utalizing him?
Posted by Ender587
My take? Ben's chemistry with him is directly tied to Ben's ability to move and wait out coverage outside the pocket. Once Ben got hurt and had the limp, this meant more runs and quicker passes, protecting him from being hit.
Wallace isn't a fit here. He's an open field route runner with routes 10+ yards and up. BB wants router runners here to do it all from different spots. They made an exception for Moss because the offense with he and Welker was NEW and no one had seen it. Plus, Wallace ain't Randy Moss.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 10:02 PM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : Or did opposing teams game plan to stop him, by playing their safeties deep, and double-teaming him?
Posted by TexasPat
No.
Most of his receptions come when Ben is outside the pocket, improvising.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 10:02 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : Or did opposing teams game plan to stop him, by playing their safeties deep, and double-teaming him?
Posted by TexasPat
Which leaves lots of room for Gronk, Welker and Hernandez...
This post has been removed.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 11:48 PM EDT
- SUZUKIGSXR
- Posts: 557
- First: 6/15/2008
- Last: 3/28/2013
Belichick will probably bring in Hines Ward instead!
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/13/2012 11:58 PM EDT
- DaBlade
- Posts: 1618
- First: 6/29/2009
- Last: 9/16/2012
If they designate Herny as a WR that means they are going to trade Welker in my opinion. Because they both would be taking up the same roster spot at that point which is why I say trade Welker unless he goes for the 3 yr 22 mil deal 18 guaranteed. ANd I would do that by the draft so they can take the pick this year or a package of picks for this or next years draft.
This post has been removed.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/14/2012 6:29 AM EDT
- BabeParilli
- Posts: 12277
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In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : "now you're getting it" jesus what an arrogant tool
Posted by JintsFan
It takes much study and meditation to climb to the lofty pinnacle of stupidity where dwells Rusty. Normal people just can't do it overnight. But we have a few here that did it in a few seconds.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/14/2012 10:58 AM EDT
- Joel63
- Posts: 146
- First: 3/8/2009
- Last: 8/12/2012
BassFishing,
A little relevant info and facts regarding WR rankings for 2011. Effective through January 2, 2011.
WR are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the "performance" on plays where this WR caught the ball, compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage. Wallace is ranked 5th. The WR's ahead of him are as follows.
1 C. Johnson
2 J. Nelson (bet that surprised you)
3 Welker
4 V. Cruz
5 Wallace
It's not rhetorical, my friend. This guy is simply worth it. Here's where a few of the guys you named are ranked.
Jennings 12th
Fitz 11th
V. Jax 14th
H. Nicks 9th
B. Marshall 16th.
Not trying to argue with you, just trying to convince you of his value.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/14/2012 11:14 AM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
That's cool. Good refernece stats to introduce into the discussion, but I am not a big formula guy when it comes to this Patriots system.
Pittsburgh doesn't run a Pats type system.
As stated MANY times here, Wallace's production comes mostly from when Ben leaves the pocket, so it allows Wallace and he to improvise, taking advantage of time and Wallace's speed. I don't see Tom Brady rolling out or breaking out of the pocket for half his pass attempts during a game so Wallace can run a 10 yard+ route. Sorry. I want LESS of that, because right now everyone and their mother knows we want to pass and every defensive player int he NFL wants to kill Tom Brady so they can be a hero and get on Sportscenter to say they tackled Tom Brady.
So, you show Jennings ranked lower in that formula, but Greg Jennings would blow away Mike Wallace in our system here. Blow him away. Better route runner, shorter legs which means he's quicker, better hands, etc.
Get it? It's about fit. This offense is probably the most complex offense in the NFL.
Mike Wallace, while with great speed and range, is one dimensional.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/14/2012 11:16 AM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : "now you're getting it" jesus what an arrogant tool
Posted by JintsFan
Yes, it's a real shame humans learn things as opposed to not learning and being arrogant mocking the ones who know more than you do. I can tell you haven't gotten very far in life, because you won't with that attitude. Enjoy 7-11.
You'd probably lecture a rocket scientist. I wouldn't.
The only people who are arrogant here are trolls and insecure irrationals, who literally contribute nothing to the discussions and ruin the threads. That's you.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/14/2012 11:17 AM EDT
- BassFishing
- Posts: 1616
- First: 2/27/2012
- Last: 4/29/2013
In Response to
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
no dice on wallace. Ne will sign Lloyd and then draft Nick Toon. take it to the bank!
Posted by ricky12684
If Lloyd is reasonable, I'd much rather do this than chase down Wallace.
Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up
posted at 3/14/2012 11:33 AM EDT
- Joel63
- Posts: 146
- First: 3/8/2009
- Last: 8/12/2012
Bass,
I do agree with you regarding the complexity of the Patriots offense, and I've taken that into consideration. I'm confident that he would adjust well in our system (timing routes). Where I disagree with you, respectfully, is that he's one dimensional. Ben is elusive for a big guy, but he has connected many times with Wallace on short and intermediate routes without ever leaving the pocket and under no pressure. You make great points and thought provoking ones, I just really like this guy and feel he makes us much better. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out. Thanks for the lively debate, Joel
