Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CAPITALIST_AVENGER. Show CAPITALIST_AVENGER's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    Avenger already said lloyd's a loser and wallace is worth the first round pick. y go after gafney when we could just re-sign branch? its pretty equal there.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
     Bass, I do agree with you regarding the complexity of the Patriots offense, and I've taken that into consideration. I'm confident that he would adjust well in our system (timing routes). Where I disagree with you, respectfully, is that he's one dimensional. Ben is elusive for a big guy, but he has connected many times with Wallace on short and intermediate routes without ever leaving the pocket and under no pressure. You make great points and thought provoking ones, I just really like this guy and feel he makes us much better. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out. Thanks for the lively debate, Joel
    Posted by Joel63



    Cool, fair enough. I can tell you like his skill set. I don't really consider slants to Wallace that great of a thing.  Moss did that for us.  I think it's more important the chemistry is there, the football IQ, the route running element, v.s. the limited routes a Wallace runs.  Moss ran limited routes, but it didnt matter because he wa Moss in his prime with a top notch QB.

    I just feel we can get a Wallace in the draft at #31 for example and get someone with the speed we want and the on field football IQ level we need.

    In fact, if that is the route they go, I'd like to see one WR taken at #31 (Sanu might be a reach there, so maybe trade back) one in the 3rd (Joe Adams Arkansas?) or 4th after they get their needs at #27 and the other 2nd rd pick.

    I'd much rather go a Lloyd (fair market deal) or Gaffney for that matter and add in a Sanu and Joe Adams in the draft than just go after Wallace.

    You hit on the system fit with Lloyd and then you bring in two targeted guys from systems in college you think may translate. Schiano and Rutgers with Sanu and Mallett played with Joe Adams.

    Bridge the gap with Lloyd, develop a Sanu and an Adams for example, and then see if Ochocino can be better, keeping an eye on Branch as well. If no Lloyd, then go sign Gaffney.

    That still leaves you with projects like Dorin Dickerson and Underwood on the back end.







     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    Forget Wallace!  It's never gonna happen.  Have you guys been paying attention to what these FA wide receivers are getting?  Not to mention what the Lions just did with Johnson.

    No way the Patriots give up a their first round pick AND pay a wr that kind of money.  It's probably killing them that they have to pay Welker over 9 mil this year.  I love Wes but I don't think wide receivers are worth that kind of hit on the Cap.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    Wallace and Lloyd are too expensive IMO. If Lloyd really wanted to come here with Joshy and we wanted him and were gonna pay him what he wanted, why isnt he here already?  I mean why even visit another team right?

    The reason is Lloyds agent is no fool and is playing hard ball to get his client money like any free agent would and this talk of following Joshy was ubsurd to begin with. I also heard Wayne was following Manning...lol - how did that work out.


    DO the math Guys!  Wes is on the Tag. Underwood was signed the day after the SB so he is here. Slater just got signed. Edleman is under contract I believe. Ocho is under contract and a candidate to be restructured. We also have the draft.


    What makes you guys think the Pats will break the bank on ONE WR when our offense was  still potent last year with the same guys and our defense has plenty of holes?


    Danny Amedola is on their radar. Far from a Lloyd type signing...sorry to burst anyones bubble.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    But, if Lloyd visits NE first gets a bid and then shops it uo against another team like SFS and theirs is less or close, there's nothing wrong with him doing that.. I would do the same thing to see if what NE is offering is market value. It may be it may not be.

    Again, it just depends on what ther player wants. If I am Lloyd I want stability, a HOF QB and a better chance at a ring.

    BUt, he may just want more money and if SF can deliver, then good luck in SF lobbying for balls with Moss, Crabtree and Vernon Davis.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    Wallace and Lloyd are too expensive IMO. If Lloyd really wanted to come here with Joshy and we wanted him and were gonna pay him what he wanted, why isnt he here already?  I mean why even visit another team right? The reason is Lloyds agent is no fool and is playing hard ball to get his client money like any free agent would and this talk of following Joshy was ubsurd to begin with. I also heard Wayne was following Manning...lol - how did that work out. DO the math Guys!  Wes is on the Tag. Underwood was signed the day after the SB so he is here. Slater just got signed. Edleman is under contract I believe. Ocho is under contract and a candidate to be restructured. We also have the draft. What makes you guys think the Pats will break the bank on ONE WR when our offense was  still potent last year with the same guys and our defense has plenty of holes? Danny Amedola is on their radar. Far from a Lloyd type signing...sorry to burst anyones bubble.
    Posted by JayShizzle45


    Right about Lloyd. If it were gonna happen then it probably already would have happened. If it does I will be mildly surprised.

    Maybe with a full offseason Ocho finally becomes the guy they envisioned.  Maybe not.

    Maybe Underwood becomes the deep threat they need.  Maybe not. 

    Atleast those guys are already here and under contract.

    There's alot of value in the picks the Pats have and maybe like in '07 a trade is made.

    I'm pretty set that the Pats will indeed trade one of the first round picks like always and I for one am OK with that.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    Rusty, you keep thinking like every player wants a ring and never think that maybe San Fran has just a good a chance to go the SB then we do?  They DO have a dominating defense and an offensive player would be excited to go there and possibly be the missing piece.(Moss)

    Take your emotions out of it for a second and think about what u are saying.

    Good luck to Lloyd and him tying to get balls with V.Davis and his 67 cathes and Crabtree and all of his 72 catches and why doenst he come here where we only have Gronk(90 catches) and Hernandez(70) catches and Welker(122) catches.

    Does that even make sense???  Cmon on, this is what I mean. Speak on something without being a homer. You think the pats are the only team with a chance to win?  You think LLoyd is loyal to Joshy and would take a discount to play with the great Tom Brady???
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    Rusty, you keep thinking like every player wants a ring and never think that maybe San Fran has just a good a chance to go the SB then we do?  They DO have a dominating defense and an offensive player would be excited to go there and possibly be the missing piece.(Moss) Take your emotions out of it for a second and think about what u are saying. Good luck to Lloyd and him tying to get balls with V.Davis and his 67 cathes and Crabtree and all of his 72 catches and why doenst he come here where we only have Gronk(90 catches) and Hernandez(70) catches and Welker(122) catches. Does that even make sense???  Cmon on, this is what I mean. Speak on something without being a homer. You think the pats are the only team with a chance to win?  You think LLoyd is loyal to Joshy and would take a discount to play with the great Tom Brady???
    Posted by JayShizzle45

    Really.  If you're a FA and want to go to a team and be a #1/2 wide receiver then NE is not the place for you when you have Welker, Gronk and Hern ahead of you.  Good luck trying to get 70/80 catches a season.

    If you just want the money then go for the money.  I can understand that. 

    Not all guys care about winning championships.  Besides, SF is a team that has a great shot at getting to the Super Bowl this year.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OscarGamble. Show OscarGamble's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    -- Use the #31 pick to sign RFA Ladarius Webb.
    (not sure Balt. won't do anything and everything to match their offer, though).
    -- sign FA Brandon Lloyd
    -- sign FA Michael Bush

    My other fear is that after yesterday, the cost of signing the remaining free agent WR's is now thru the roof.
    $42M for Pierre Garcon? Gotta be kidding.
    Can't fault Lloyd is he takes an offer that's $3-5 million more per year than N.E.'s.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    Jumping back in.  I'm not saying the Pats are even considering Wallace but I am saying he's worth pick 31 and a healthy contract.  The timing is also perfect.  Brady has 2, maybe 3 years left performing at a high level, barring injury.  The same could be said about Welker.  Welker turns 31 soon.  He's been given the tag but no long term deal.  We know the Pats offered him a 2 year deal and he turned it down.  How many more years are the Pats willing to give Welker?  IDK but the time is ripe to bring in a young stud WR.

    Wallace turns 26 this summer.  I'd rather be giving big bucks and a long term deal to a proven guy like Wallace than 31 year old Welker.  I also see Wallace as a system fit.  Yes he can get verticle and stretch the field, something we haven't had since Moss, but most of his big plays come from underneath passes that he turns into big plays.  Both fit our style and Brady's strengths.  Brady is a much more accurate deep passer than people give him credit for.  Remember all the deep balls to Moss?  Lately he hasn't looked good because the coverage could keep up and make plays.  Nobody can stay with Wallace deep, not even Revis.

    The addition of Wallace would open up the middle for Gronk, Hern and Welker too.  He would make our offense clearly the best in the NFL.

    If there were a stud F/A defender that we could get instead, I'd prefer that but the good ones are mostly gone, especially the top DBs.  At this point we should approach free agency by asking the question, "Who can we sign that would make our team better?"  Wallace would be possible answer.

     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    Faucet, for the record, if we are talking about signing Wallace longterm INSTEAD of signing Wes, than thats different and I think they should find out what they can, but not really in favor of breaking the bank on anyone at that position honestly, but if gave him less than 20mill garaunteed, maybe..

    I just cant see him not cashing in when everyone else is. I think he is better Lloyd and even he seems to be out our price range.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    Faucet, for the record, if we are talking about signing Wallace longterm INSTEAD of signing Wes, than thats different and I think they should find out what they can, but not really in favor of breaking the bank on anyone at that position honestly, but if gave him less than 20mill garaunteed, maybe.. I just cant see him not cashing in when everyone else is. I think he is better Lloyd and even he seems to be out our price range.
    Posted by JayShizzle45

    I don't really mean instead of Welker per se.  I'm saying we shouldn't be viewing Welker for big bucks for longer than 2 years, 3 max.  I think we could go 5-6 on Wallace given his age and that he is still improving.  Welker could be tagged twice for less money than a lot of these F/A WRs are getting.

    The NFL Network boys seem to think the Pats and Ravens would have no problems giving up the pick but they need to structure a deal that is front loaded that the Steelers can't match.  I think we could do it but it would take cutting Matt Light and it seems we are committed to Light for one more year.  I still think we should make an offer. 

    So what if the Steelers match, we forced them to burn cap then later when they start signing draft picks they'll have to release other players.  There is no penalty I'm aware of for attempting to sign a RFA and no succeeding, is there?  So where's the harm?  Make an offer we're comfortable with and if the Steelers match, they match.  We move on and we hurt a top AFC rival.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joel63. Show Joel63's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

     You're correct Faucet. There is no penalty for signing him to an offer sheet. If they match it (and I believe they won't) they keep him. They are already in cap hell and Antonio Brown is up next year. They want him too.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : Joel: please realize two important things before you go forward first, there is no "respectfully" disagreeing with Bass/Queenie...if you don't bow to his "superiority" you are a troll, irrational, work at 7-11, etc...so that's out second, you are debating with a man who thinks Matt Cassel is comparable to Aaron Rogers...just so you know who you are dealing with
    Posted by JintsFan



    Queenie is much like Rexy. Rexy thinks Sanchez is better than Brady. Rusty thinks Cassel is as good as Rodgers.

    (Shhh, don't tell him this but he is trying in his underhanded way to say Cassel is as good as Brady. Because Rodgers is arguably as good as Brady. See how sneaky he is?)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : I don't really mean instead of Welker per se.  I'm saying we shouldn't be viewing Welker for big bucks for longer than 2 years, 3 max.  I think we could go 5-6 on Wallace given his age and that he is still improving.  Welker could be tagged twice for less money than a lot of these F/A WRs are getting. The NFL Network boys seem to think the Pats and Ravens would have no problems giving up the pick but they need to structure a deal that is front loaded that the Steelers can't match.  I think we could do it but it would take cutting Matt Light and it seems we are committed to Light for one more year.  I still think we should make an offer.  So what if the Steelers match, we forced them to burn cap then later when they start signing draft picks they'll have to release other players.  There is no penalty I'm aware of for attempting to sign a RFA and no succeeding, is there?  So where's the harm?  Make an offer we're comfortable with and if the Steelers match, they match.  We move on and we hurt a top AFC rival.
    Posted by Faucetman


         Faucetman and All:

         Isn't it curious that the Patriots are taking a look at several slot receivers? Could it be that the Pats are planning to trade Wes Welker for, say, a high second rounder? Then, they could take that cap money allotted to Wes and use it to make a pitch for the Steelers' Mike Wallace. The 31st overall pick given up would be negated by the high second rounder they got in return for Wes.

         It's easier to find a good slot receiver than a legitimate deep threat. Hey...I really like Wes, and would hate to see him leave. But, I like the Pats' franchise more. There's no doubt in my mind that the Patriots are not going to pay Wes huge money. If he stays, this will likely be his last year as a Pat.   

         Any thoughts on this?
              
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    Tex, I wouldnt that at all. Def. something to keep an eye on. Depends on how quickly things move going forward.

    I think the Pats are much more comfortable making deals on draft day when things start to become clearer and they see whats available via draft.

    Its something I would welcome. Wallace on the outside with Amendola in the slot and ocho on the other side. Grnk and hernandez also work the middle of the field. We arent gonna have Gronk, Hernandez, Wes, Amdendola, Edleman all working the middle w/out a deep presence, so I think its a very big possibility.

    Why wouldnt we want to get better and make Pittsburgh worse at the same time?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up :      Faucetman and All:      Isn't it curious that the Patriots are taking a look at several slot receivers? Could it be that the Pats are planning to trade Wes Welker for, say, a high second rounder? Then, they could take that cap money allotted to Wes and use it to make a pitch for the Steelers' Mike Wallace. The 31st overall pick given up would be negated by the high second rounder they got in return for Wes.      It's easier to find a good slot receiver than a legitimate deep threat. Hey...I really like Wes, and would hate to see him leave. But, I like the Pats' franchise more. There's no doubt in my mind that the Patriots are not going to pay Wes huge money. If he stays, this will likely be his last year as a Pat.         Any thoughts on this?           
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Do you think there's a team that's going to want to trade a pick for him given that they are also going to have to pay him the tag amount or negotiate a deal that he'll be willing to sign?  Put another way, the team that picks him up will be in the same position the Pats are in now . . . but short a draft pick.  It doesn't seem very desirable.  If Welker were  a QB, so-called tag and trade might be feasible, but I'm not sure it's very feasible for an aging slot receiver.

    I suspect the Pats are looking at all their options at receiver.  Another slot might work if he's bigger than Welker and can be more of a presence in traffic or along the sidelines.  He might be more a Branch replacement than a Welker replacement. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if they look for a bigger/faster flanker type in the draft (maybe second round) if they don't get one in free agency. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    My take is you can't pay huge $ to anyone unless your name is Brady or you play HOF caliber QB.

    We will continue to pay 3 or 4 guys top dollar on the team and with Gronk coming due soon enough, it wont be Wes or any other non TE reciever. I think we Draft 2 WR this year high, or maybe one this then one next. If we keep Wes around he will be a tagged guy only.

    Part of BB plan on stockpiling picks in Rd 2 has to be that we can add alot of top talent on the team for rookie wages. Then when we lock them down on second contracts for big $ we know everything about the player and reduce risk.

    Any large $ spent on WR has to be with a two year window in mind I think. So I think Wallace is out but Amendola is an option to lock up for a lower salary for multi years like Wes was.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    welker is quite the player and could demand quite a few picks. if marshall after an off field incident is worth 2 3rd round picks then welker is worth at least a 1st and a 2nd.  That would be interesting to see BB trade welker for a 1st and a 2nd, sign wallace and bring in amendola and net a 2nd round pick.  who knows what sort of drop off we would have at the WR position if any.  While i would hate to see him go, if welker isn't in the long term plans of this team then i would like to maximize his value to the organization.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    welker is quite the player and could demand quite a few picks. if marshall after an off field incident is worth 2 3rd round picks then welker is worth at least a 1st and a 2nd.  That would be interesting to see BB trade welker for a 1st and a 2nd, sign wallace and bring in amendola and net a 2nd round pick.  who knows what sort of drop off we would have at the WR position if any.  While i would hate to see him go, if welker isn't in the long term plans of this team then i would like to maximize his value to the organization.
    Posted by natesubs


    Do you think other teams are going to see Welker's skills translating well into their systems?  I think a lot of teams are going to see Welker as a guy who can succeed with the Pats and Brady but may not succeed as well with their QBs and systems. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    welker is quite the player and could demand quite a few picks. if marshall after an off field incident is worth 2 3rd round picks then welker is worth at least a 1st and a 2nd.  That would be interesting to see BB trade welker for a 1st and a 2nd, sign wallace and bring in amendola and net a 2nd round pick.  who knows what sort of drop off we would have at the WR position if any.  While i would hate to see him go, if welker isn't in the long term plans of this team then i would like to maximize his value to the organization.
    Posted by natesubs


    I would support this idea but still think the Pats don't want to give any reciever a 10M deal.

    Also doubt we get a 1st from any team for Wes, maybe 2nd this year, 3rd next at most. Not many teams out there who want to give 10M to an aging slot rec while also losing picks. Someone will tho.

    If we bring in Wallace for more $ than we offered Wes I think that is a bad message. Pats are tuff but do try to minimize the public fallout some. If they play hardball, we as fans seem to always have the majority side with the front office. This one would be a tough sell.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up :      Faucetman and All:      Isn't it curious that the Patriots are taking a look at several slot receivers? Could it be that the Pats are planning to trade Wes Welker for, say, a high second rounder? Then, they could take that cap money allotted to Wes and use it to make a pitch for the Steelers' Mike Wallace. The 31st overall pick given up would be negated by the high second rounder they got in return for Wes.      It's easier to find a good slot receiver than a legitimate deep threat. Hey...I really like Wes, and would hate to see him leave. But, I like the Pats' franchise more. There's no doubt in my mind that the Patriots are not going to pay Wes huge money. If he stays, this will likely be his last year as a Pat.         Any thoughts on this?           
    Posted by TexasPat3

    I do think Welker owes much of his success to Brady and the Pats' system.  Would another slot WR haul in 120+ passes a year?  I don't know about that.  But we should be talking to Eddie Royal instead of Gonzales who hasn't been healthy for 3 years.

    You make an interesting point.  Assuming Welker signs the tag, which he hasn't and doesn't really have to until Week 10, we could trade him.  Otherwise we'd need to bring him into the plan and allow him to negotiate his new deal somewhere else.  I think he would get us more than a 2nd.  We're talking about the most prolific receiver in the past 5 years who is only 30.  We could get a pair of 2nds.  But I love the idea if we got Wallace with that pick 31 then came back to use our new 2nd this year to get who we wanted at 31 anyway.  The Welker money would go nicely towards the younger Welker.

    Texas, this is a brilliant idea.  It really is.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up

    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up:
    In Response to Re: Mike Wallace to Pats? talk heating up : Do you think other teams are going to see Welker's skills translating well into their systems?  I think a lot of teams are going to see Welker as a guy who can succeed with the Pats and Brady but may not succeed as well with their QBs and systems. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid

    I think Welker would succeed anywhere.  He caught 67 balls his last year in Miami then of course his production nearly doubled with Brady.  But Brady even made Reche Caldwell look good.  Caldwell caught 67 balls in 2006 from Brady and never managed more than 28 in his other 5 seasons.

    Wallace would tear it up in NE.  We don't need to distribute 120 balls to the slot anyway.  70-80 is more than enough with our TEs and Wallace. 

    As for Welker's value, seeing what Mega Tron got and Welker's numbers are better, he damn sure would net us a 1st and 2nd or a pair of 2nds.  Maybe a 2nd this year, 1st next year.

    It sure has been quiet.  The Pats are planning something and it's usually brilliant that nobody saw coming, except maybe TexasPat.
     
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