MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    Mike Reiss just tweeted that Visanthe Shiancoe will indeed go on IR and be designated to return under the new IR rule , just as many have been predicting .

     My initial thought is to defer to BB 's judgement on the matter , if he thinks it's the best personel move - then it's the best move .

    But then I got to thinkin that it might be foolish to use up such an important one-time tool before the season's even begun .

     There's been times when BB has unwisely used up his challenge flags early in games - only to find himself out of them in the 2nd half  ( and not on game changing calls either ...on occasion they've been real "who cares if it's even overturned " types of head scratchers mixed in )

    Belichick is still the best at what he does , and hopefully this ends up being just another example of why he is who he is  ( and I'm some Pats lovin scrub typin' away in my home )

     I hope I'm wrong ...but I think the season is way too long to use up this new application of the IR rule before the season has even started  , and more importantly to be using it on an unproven / non essential  back-up tight end .
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    How is the rule actually setup? If you have to assign them as the player to return before they are tossed on IR then I think it's a huge mistake to use it on a #4 TE before the season even starts. However, if you don't have to assign the designation until you are ready to pull the player off of the IR then it's a good move
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from thehub. Show thehub's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    What if a player like Mayo goes down in week one or two could they IR and have him back for week 8? Is he out for 8 weeks from the time he is placed on IR? 


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    Depends, who else went on IR do you think 1) can come back in time for the regular season/playoffs and 2) will have an impact or potential impact on the team?

    I guess if Demps has a blown out knee, then, mebbe Shiancoe was the right move. If it were just a bruise, mebbe Demps should have been the one.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    I think it says that they're pretty high on Shiancoe and that's saying something because the guy didn't play/practice more than ten minutes this pre season. On the other hand you had a Fenene that practiced for a week and then they sent him home 2 weeks prior to his release - I think that says something about him too - that he wasn't their type of player.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to anonymis's comment:

    Depends, who else went on IR do you think 1) can come back in time for the regular season/playoffs and 2) will have an impact or potential impact on the team?

    I guess if Demps has a blown out knee, then, mebbe Shiancoe was the right move. If it were just a bruise, mebbe Demps should have been the one.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to anonymis's comment:

    Depends, who else went on IR do you think 1) can come back in time for the regular season/playoffs and 2) will have an impact or potential impact on the team?

    I guess if Demps has a blown out knee, then, mebbe Shiancoe was the right move. If it were just a bruise, mebbe Demps hould have been the one.

    The problem was that Demps needed to be on the 53 man roster to be eligible for the designation which means someone else would have had to have been cut to keep him
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    Yeah, BB is an f'in idiot.  How does he keep his job?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    yes tcal because saying BB might have made a mistake is exactly like calling him a f'in idiot (if you can't tell I'm rolling my eyes)

    BB has made mistakes in the past and has fully admitted to making those mistakes. Saying using the 1 time exemption on a #4 TE on the team before a single snap is taken might be a mistake is a correct statement. What happens if Gronk or Wilfork goes down week 1 and they can't use the exemption then? I'm pretty sure BB would come out and say at the time it seemed like a good idea but hindsight maybe not the brightest move.

    However if you are allowed to chose from a pool of IR'd players and he's just adding him to the pool of potential players that it can be used on then it doesn't really matter at that point
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    The player has to be designated when they go to the IR.  Why would anyone think Shiancoe is the #4 TE?  

    As usual you can't find a reporter to dig deeper than the press release on this new rule so nobody is quite sure but if it follows the same rules as the PUP than there may be a window to bring players back between weeks 6-9 which would make it mostly pointless to designate players during the season.

    There is also an old fashioned way to bring back a player like Mayo who gets injured week one but will be back during the season  and that is to keep him on the roster.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    The player has to be designated when they go to the IR.  Why would anyone think Shiancoe is the #4 TE?  

    As usual you can't find a reporter to dig deeper than the press release on this new rule so nobody is quite sure but if it follows the same rules as the PUP than there may be a window to bring players back between weeks 6-9 which would make it mostly pointless to designate players during the season.

    There is also an old fashioned way to bring back a player like Mayo who gets injured week one but will be back during the season  and that is to keep him on the roster.



    Because on the Pats depth chart throughout the entire preseason it went Gronk, Hern, Fells, and Shia. Not to mention at least Fells practiced with the team for longer then 15mins before he was injured.

    Going down the list is Shia better then Gronk? Is Shia better then Hern? At best it makes him the #3 TE but then you look at Fells you can make a very good argument that Fells is the primary backup for Gronk which makes Shia #4 on the roster
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    The IR Player designation is not a factor as I see it.  If a player gets injured and will be out a short period of time, they can be designated inactive for a few games.  The team can only dress 45 players for a game.  The roster has 53 slots.  This allows for 8 players to be inactive.  As with Spkies, mayo and others in the past, the team can use the inactive roster to let these players heal.  Once healed they are able to return to the active roster.  There is no need to play this IR game.  The Patriots are a deep roster team.  Most teams are not as deep. Most teams have about 35 players that are "critical".  I believe that the patriots are more on the 40 plus side.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In baseball you have 15 day disabled list, 30 day, and presumably ir.  I don't know if the lists have limits ...

    Can someone explain the spirit of this football ir rule since I never understood why players were automatically gone for the year . Now you have 1 designated player, why not 5 or 3...?  Then you have the PUP list...  Yeeesh

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to coolade2 comment:

     

    In baseball you have 15 day disabled list, 30 day, and presumably ir.  I don't know if the lists have limits ...

    Can someone explain the spirit of this football ir rule since I never understood why players were automatically gone for the year . Now you have 1 designated player, why not 5 or 3...?  Then you have the PUP list...  Yeeesh

     



    It's mainly to prevent teams (like the Pats) from abusing the system and artifically expanding the roster. If they unlimited 15day and 30day DL then you know BB would just have a constent rotation of 22 men going on and off the roster with random "injures". This might not sound bad but then think about how many teams fill out their 53 man squad from other teams castoffs not to mention the lower ranked teams who have no chance of attracting players unless the player basically has no choice but to sign or not play the year. If BB could tell a vet that he could give them a chance to win a ring and they only have to play in a 1/3rd of the games this year, just have an "injury" the rest of the time it would give the Pats and other winning teams a tremendous advantage. This would go against the leagues "anyone can win" mentality that was suppose to be developed with FA

    With the PuP, it can only be used if a player hasn't previously practiced so it's to protect a players spot while coming back from an injury sustained prior to the preseason or from the previous year.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    Unfortunately , there's still unanswered questions regarding the new rule .


    Here's what we do know about  the new IR rule :

    1. Only players with a "major injury" who are placed on Reserve/Injured after September 4, or thereafter during the season, will be eligible to be reactivated at a later time.

    2. A "major injury" is defined as an injury that renders the player unable to practice or play football for at least six weeks (42 calendar days) from the date of injury.

    3. Each team may reactivate only one player placed on Reserve/Injured List. That player must be "designated for return" at the time the club places him on Reserve/Injured, and such designation shall appear on that day's Personnel Notice.

    4. Such player is eligible to return to practice if he has been on Reserve/Injured for at least six weeks from the date he is placed on Reserve. He is eligible to return to the Active List if he has been on Reserve/Injured for at least eight weeks from the date he is placed on Reserve.

    Unanswered Questions :

    1) Can a team classify more than one injured player as "designated for return"?

    2) If not  , can they then remove the designation from that original player ( placing them on permanent IR ) and then re-asign the designation to a different player ?



    Lot's of speculation out on the web but I can't find any concrete answers ...surprised that the "paid" inquirers have yet to dig deeper .

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    The player has to be designated when they go to the IR.  Why would anyone think Shiancoe is the #4 TE?  

    As usual you can't find a reporter to dig deeper than the press release on this new rule so nobody is quite sure but if it follows the same rules as the PUP than there may be a window to bring players back between weeks 6-9 which would make it mostly pointless to designate players during the season.

    There is also an old fashioned way to bring back a player like Mayo who gets injured week one but will be back during the season  and that is to keep him on the roster.



    Because on the Pats depth chart throughout the entire preseason it went Gronk, Hern, Fells, and Shia. Not to mention at least Fells practiced with the team for longer then 15mins before he was injured.

    Going down the list is Shia better then Gronk? Is Shia better then Hern? At best it makes him the #3 TE but then you look at Fells you can make a very good argument that Fells is the primary backup for Gronk which makes Shia #4 on the roster

     



    Is that depth chart put out by BB or is it just the opinion of some media people, because I'm pretty sure it's just an opinion.  Call him what you want but it just sounds like you're trying to get yourself all upset.  

    I look at it like this- BB designated him to be the guy to come back- BB is not stupid- therefore BB must think he will be an important part of the team and not a benchwarmer.  Time will tell if that's true, but that has to be what he thinks.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    That came across more dickish than I wanted but I can't delete or edit.  Damn you Boston.com and your cheepo forum.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to anonymis's comment:

    Depends, who else went on IR do you think 1) can come back in time for the regular season/playoffs and 2) will have an impact or potential impact on the team?

    I guess if Demps has a blown out knee, then, mebbe Shiancoe was the right move. If it were just a bruise, mebbe Demps should have been the one.



    Demps was "redshirted" They had no intention of having him on the 53 man roster unless they had to. He had no training camp. He had almost no preseason. He is a raw rookie.

    He needs time to learn the offense. This gives them the time to give him. His chance will come next year.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    The player has to be designated when they go to the IR.  Why would anyone think Shiancoe is the #4 TE?  

    As usual you can't find a reporter to dig deeper than the press release on this new rule so nobody is quite sure but if it follows the same rules as the PUP than there may be a window to bring players back between weeks 6-9 which would make it mostly pointless to designate players during the season.

    There is also an old fashioned way to bring back a player like Mayo who gets injured week one but will be back during the season  and that is to keep him on the roster.



    Shianco is #4 TE if you look at TE as one position. But here it is two: you have Gronk and Fells at one spot. You ahve Hern and Shianco at the Hback type spot. I think he backs up Hern not Gronk or Fells. Bottom line, I agree with you that Shianco is not #4 but #2 in his "position".

    I also agree on the Mayo example. Some guys you just keep a spot for unless you are sure they can not make it back by the AFC championship game or the game before.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to portfolio1 comment:

    In response to anonymis's comment:

    Depends, who else went on IR do you think 1) can come back in time for the regular season/playoffs and 2) will have an impact or potential impact on the team?

    I guess if Demps has a blown out knee, then, mebbe Shiancoe was the right move. If it were just a bruise, mebbe Demps should have been the one.



    Demps was "redshirted" They had no intention of having him on the 53 man roster unless they had to. He had no training camp. He had almost no preseason. He is a raw rookie.

    He needs time to learn the offense. This gives them the time to give him. His chance will come next year.

     



    That could very well be. It allowed them to keep him without  having to tie up a roster spot for him this year.  He never would have cleared waivers so the practice squad would have been out. He hasn't touched a football in a year and just signed on. Demps needs to put on a little weight and get into football shape. I was hoping that he would be put on the new IR and return but BB probably wants more tight ends this year. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    The player has to be designated when they go to the IR.  Why would anyone think Shiancoe is the #4 TE?  

    As usual you can't find a reporter to dig deeper than the press release on this new rule so nobody is quite sure but if it follows the same rules as the PUP than there may be a window to bring players back between weeks 6-9 which would make it mostly pointless to designate players during the season.

    There is also an old fashioned way to bring back a player like Mayo who gets injured week one but will be back during the season  and that is to keep him on the roster.



    Because on the Pats depth chart throughout the entire preseason it went Gronk, Hern, Fells, and Shia. Not to mention at least Fells practiced with the team for longer then 15mins before he was injured.

    Going down the list is Shia better then Gronk? Is Shia better then Hern? At best it makes him the #3 TE but then you look at Fells you can make a very good argument that Fells is the primary backup for Gronk which makes Shia #4 on the roster

     



    Is that depth chart put out by BB or is it just the opinion of some media people, because I'm pretty sure it's just an opinion.  Call him what you want but it just sounds like you're trying to get yourself all upset.  

    I look at it like this- BB designated him to be the guy to come back- BB is not stupid- therefore BB must think he will be an important part of the team and not a benchwarmer.  Time will tell if that's true, but that has to be what he thinks.

     



    It came from the patriots website patriots.com so I hoe that it is not just some media thought
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    also agree on the Mayo example. Some guys you just keep a spot for unless you are sure they can not make it back by the AFC championship game or the game before.


    Wow the Colts took that to an exteme last year, you'd thought by game 6 they would have known they wern't getting to the AFCG lol.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return


    No mistake in my mind. Shiancoe if healthy can still produce. Look at his numbers up in Minny with nobody playing QB. He adds a nice compliment + depth to this TE corps. I see him better than Fells & Oh Man as a receiving TE, and is an adequate blocker. If he was healthy, he would easily be the #2/3 TE on the roster....assuming for a second Hern's TE designation is really only in name. Having he & gronk on the field at the same time wtih Hern in the slot, backfield or split out wide will cause concern for defenses. BB knows what he is doing here. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

    In baseball you have 15 day disabled list, 30 day, and presumably ir.  I don't know if the lists have limits ...

    Can someone explain the spirit of this football ir rule since I never understood why players were automatically gone for the year . Now you have 1 designated player, why not 5 or 3...?  Then you have the PUP list...  Yeeesh

     


    Baseball has a 15 day DL, 60 day DL(which takes a player off the 40 man roster), and a 7 day DL for concussions. The 60 day DL is closest to the IR because you get an extra roster spot on the 53 man. 15 day DL and 7 day are not needed in football because you simple make a player inactive for a game with out have to worry about waivers, options, or required time spent in the minors.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: MISTAKE ? Visanthe Shiancoe designated as the IR Player to Return

    I haven't seen anything on any transactions reports by the Pats or the NFL.
     
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