Mo Claiborne

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS75. Show RS75's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    I'm not an expert on projecting athlete's performance but here are some observations....

    Wonderlic is but one of many factors to consider in projecting success.  Wonderlic does get at how quickly and accurately you process the information but if the test is administered in a "written" form, those with dyslexia may fare quite poorly.  One might say that this score is more important for Quarterbacks but that's not right either -- if Wonderlic were to be administered in a video/visual format, it may be more relevant.

    Other factors such as physical skill set, instinct, visual acuity, desire, etc are also critical in evaluating potential performance.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne :      Here's an article on the subject: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/ eagles/20120404_Claiborne_s_4_score_a_reason_2_worry_.html
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    The article doesn't mention his reading disability just says he's dumb. There is a huge difference between the two. It kind of half @ss reporting if you ask me.

    Here's an article that cites it:

    http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-draft/2012/4/3/2922913/morris-claiborne-wonderlic-learning-disability


    This is one of my favorite articles and puts it in a better light his situation:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Morris-Claiborne-NFL-draft-LSU-Wonderlic-score-040312

    A kid with such a debilitating disability still performed well in a top end college and worked his butt off to learn. To me that doesn't show a lack of intelligence or that he's dumb. To me it's an incredible positive that he can overcome the disability, that's he's extremely hard working, and that he's more intelligent then most give him credit for (admitting he had the problem and getting as much help as possible is a sign of intelligence imo)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne : The article doesn't mention his reading disability just says he's dumb. There is a huge difference between the two. It kind of half @ss reporting if you ask me. Here's an article that cites it: http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-draft/2012/4/3/2922913/morris-claiborne-wonderlic-learning-disability This is one of my favorite articles and puts it in a better light his situation: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Morris-Claiborne-NFL-draft-LSU-Wonderlic-score-040312 A kid with such a debilitating disability still performed well in a top end college and worked his butt off to learn. To me that doesn't show a lack of intelligence or that he's dumb. To me it's an incredible positive that he can overcome the disability, that's he's extremely hard working, and that he's more intelligent then most give him credit for (admitting he had the problem and getting as much help as possible is a sign of intelligence imo)
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

         You have to wonder where Claiborne's agent, Bus Cooke, was, with all this. Didn't he know about Claiborne's disability? What steps did he take, if any, to have Claiborne "coached" in the intricacies of the Wonderlic? Why did he even allow his client to take the Wonderlic? After all, QBs refuse to throw at The Combine all the time. Would Claiborne have been better being up front about his disability?
     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne :      You have to wonder where Claiborne's agent, Bus Cooke, was, with all this. Didn't he know about Claiborne's disability? What steps did he take, if any, to have Claiborne "coached" in the intricacies of the Wonderlic? Why did he even allow his client to take the Wonderlic? After all, QBs refuse to throw at The Combine all the time. Would Claiborne have been better being up front about his disability?
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Well Texas I see a couple things here.

    1) Everyone in the NFL knows about his disability already. He made it perfectly clear to all colleges recruiting him and actually chose a college that could best help him learn with his disability. I'm taking a wild guess during his interviews he let every NFL know about it too. Really it's not a secret, except to people unfamiliar with his situation and just comment blindly on the Wonderlick test

    2) Wonderlick is a written test. Even if he was coached up on it if he has a reading disability it doesn't matter how much he is coached up, he can't read the questions in the proper time. If he has a form of dyslexia 12 mins isn't a lot of time for him to go through the routine he needs to understand the questions

    3) Actually taking the Wonderlick is a sign of good faith that he's willing to do the full pre-draft process even if he has a disability that hides his true intelligence. With teams knowing that he has this disability then it's only a plus for him that he is willing to even try. It would only be a negative if he wasn't even willing to try and just simply stated he couldn't do it based on the disability. This way it shows he has character, determination, and doesn't let the disability affect his life
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne : You do understand intelligence and reading comprehension are not exclusive to each other. Actually many extremely intelligent people had very poor reading skills (Einstein for one) but don't let that get in your way when commenting on intelligence vs a reading disability or anything
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Reading skills? Most of the questions are about numbers or comparing shapes. Here are some sample questions....

    1. Look at the row of numbers below. What number should come next?

    8421½¼?

    2. Assume the first two statements are true. The boy plays baseball. All baseball players wear hats. Is the final one: The boy wears a hat.

    1. true,2. false,3. not certain?

     

    3. Paper sells for 21 cents per pad. What will four pads cost?

    4. How many of the five pairs of items listed below are exact duplicates? 

    Nieman, K.M.Neiman, K.M.
    Thomas, G.K.Thomas, C.K.
    Hoff, J.P.Hoff, J.P.
    Pino, L.R.Pina, L.R.
    Warner, T.S.Wanner, T.S.

    5. RESENT RESERVE • Do these words 
    1. have similar meanings, 2. have contradictory meanings, 3. mean neither the same nor opposite?

    6. One of the numbered figures in the following drawing is most different from the others. What is the number in that figure?

    7. A train travels 20 feet in 1/5 second. At this same speed, how many feet will it travel in three seconds?

    8. When rope is selling at $.10 a foot, how many feet can you buy for sixty cents?

    9. The ninth month of the year is

    1. October,2. January,3. June,4. September,5 May.

    10. Which number in the following group of numbers represents the smallest amount? 

    7.831.332
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    So let's clarify...

    A Wonderlic score of 4 means 4 correct out of 50.

    Can we all agree that the above listed 10 questions are gimmies? 8 out of 10 at absolute minimum. Assuming you get 8 of those, you still have 40 more to get a higher score. They do get harder and you have a time limit, but to get a 4 is embarrassing. Just not taking it and getting a zero would be better than trying and getting a 4.

    I'm not sure why people are so quick to jump to his defense...

     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    Football intelligence and the ability to score well on an aptitude test of this kind are not the same thing.  This is the equivalent of giving someone an IQ test before deciding to admit them into a fine arts program.  It is a non-sequitur at best.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    Agreed...I'm not commenting on his football intelligence or ability. He appears to be an outstanding player. I am looking at his score compared to the difficulty of the test and am baffled that anyone could score that low. We are talking basic math and problem solving. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    titletown, why don't you read up on dyslexia and understand how it affects reading comprehension (which includes numbers btw) before assuming anything. Ohh yeah before then, how about removing all the words from the questions and trying to answer them while you are at it, to give you an idea what most dyslexics go through I'll add a new word every 5-15s and you can try to answer 50 questions in 12mins that way. It doesn't matter if the answers are mostly math based if it still takes time for him to read the question in a manner capable to a reading disability.

    Here's some quick knowledge on the disability:

    Dyslexia is a brain-based type of learning disability that specifically impairs a person's ability to read. These individuals typically read at levels significantly lower than expected despite having normal intelligence. Although the disorder varies from person to person, common characteristics among people with dyslexia are difficulty with spelling, phonological processing (the manipulation of sounds), and/or rapid visual-verbal responding.

    At later ages symptoms can include a difficulty identifying or generating rhyming words, or counting syllables in words.[33] (phonological awareness) a difficulty segmenting words into individual sounds, or blending sounds to make words,[34] a difficulty with word retrieval or naming problems,[35][36][37] commonly very poor spelling[38] which has been called dysorthographia (orthographic coding) and tendencies to omit or add letters or words when writing and reading are considered classic signs. Difficulty determining the meaning (idea content) of a simple sentence and learning to recognize written words are also symptoms found at later ages.

    accomplished adult dyslexics may be able to read with good comprehension, but they tend to read more slowly than non-dyslexics and may perform more poorly at nonsense word reading (a measure of phonological awareness) and spelling.[16] Dyslexia is not an intellectual disability, since dyslexia and IQ are not interrelated, as a result of cognition developing independently.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    Thanks for the free lesson.

    So if his dyslexia is so dehabilitating, how was he able to attend classes at Louisiana State and maintain a GPA worthy by NCAA standards of playing himself to a first round pay day?

    Maybe it's just me, but if you cant figure out the 21 cents times 4 is 84 cents, pick out the only shape without 4 sides, or pick out the smallest number in a group, I'm not sure how you could have made it through grade school let alone a college institution.

    You make it seem like when he looks at block of text it's upside down Egyptian hieroglyphics in italicized font for goodness sakes. My college roommate suffered from dyslexia so I have had some experience with it and I'm sorry, I am not buying this. I am sure that he does suffer from a learning disability and there is nothing wrong with that. I think he did poorly, his score was leaked, and his agent/family/whoever put this dyslexia story out there to provide an excuse (for lack of a better term) to ease the PR blow. Not saying he doesn't have some form of learning disorder, but I'm not allowing it to be the sole reason he couldn't get a higher score than 4.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    Titletown:

    I have no idea whether Claiborne has dyslexia or not, but it is easy to explain how people with severe dyslexia could successfully attend college (personally I think a lot of players at power schools don't get much of an education, but that is another issue) while still scoring poorly on a test like that.  They key component in this case is time.  Dyslexia hinders your ability to process information at the speed required to score well on a timed test like Wonderlic.  This is the reason that people with learning disabilities are often given extra time to take tests at many institutions.  I can't comment on Claiborne specifically, but it is at least plausible.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]Thanks for the free lesson. So if his dyslexia is so dehabilitating, how was he able to attend classes at Louisiana State and maintain a GPA worthy by NCAA standards of playing himself to a first round pay day? Maybe it's just me, but if you cant figure out the 21 cents times 4 is 84 cents, pick out the only shape without 4 sides, or pick out the smallest number in a group, I'm not sure how you could have made it through grade school let alone a college institution. You make it seem like when he looks at block of text it's upside down Egyptian hieroglyphics in italicized font for goodness sakes. My college roommate suffered from dyslexia so I have had some experience with it and I'm sorry, I am not buying this. I am sure that he does suffer from a learning disability and there is nothing wrong with that. I think he did poorly, his score was leaked, and his agent/family/whoever put this dyslexia story out there to provide an excuse (for lack of a better term) to ease the PR blow. Not saying he doesn't have some form of learning disorder, but I'm not allowing it to be the sole reason he couldn't get a higher score than 4.
    Posted by TitleTown11[/QUOTE]

    It's not that he can't read it's that it takes him longer to understand what he is reading. Most colleges have programs and assistance to those with this disability. I was a tutor for one such kid and one way to have them learn is visually like putting the actual money on the table and saying the problem. Most teachers are understanding and allow the students to take tests over a greater length of time in their offices or they have assistants read them the questions. There are different levels of dyslexia, some extremely mild others can be debilitating. Dyslexia isn't end all be all and yes for some a book can seem upside down and like hieroglyphics if the case is bad enough

    It takes a tremendous amount of effort and work for these kids to learn from a book so if he was able to maintain grades I have no doubt he was putting in two-three times the amount of work outside the classroom then most kids.

    Again, doesn't affect his ability to learn or his intelligence it affects his ability to comprehend from reading. In a timed test where you only have 12mins if it takes him 2-3mins to read and understand a single sentence then how far do you think he'd get? I bet if you gave it to him over a longer period he would perform better.

    BTW, his learning disability was well know before he even went to college. He made sure that colleges understood this before recruiting him. He picked a college that has a great assistance program for students with learning disabilities. His agent didn't suddenly release it, it was well known.
     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    I don't care what the kid scored. I've seen him play ball many times and he can play. I'd be far more worried about Janoris Jenkins decision making w/ everyday life before I would Claiborne's decisions on a combine test.
     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne : Thank you for saying this. I thought having a server reading disability would hint that he would not perform well on a written test. I mean it's like asking a far sighted person to put a puzzle together without their glasses. Not the best measure of intelligence for someone with a reading disability
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    If he has a reading disability it doesn't mean he can't read or write, it means he reads and processes slowly.  He probably needs twice the amount of time to read and complete the exam which he should of asked for and should have been granted.  Reports are that he was diagnosed in high school and therefore should have been using accomodations throughout his studies at college.  Of course the big question is: If he had accommodations in college, did he ask for and did he receive the accomodations taking the Wonderlic?  If he truly can't read, then he should have never made it out of elementary school, nevermind college.
     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne : If he has a reading disability it doesn't mean he can't read or write, it means he reads and processes slowly.  He probably needs twice the amount of time to read and complete the exam which he should of asked for and should have been granted.  Reports are that he was diagnosed in high school and therefore should have been using accomodations throughout his studies at college.  Of course the big question is: If he had accommodations in college, did he ask for and did he receive the accomodations taking the Wonderlic?  If he truly can't read, then he should have never made it out of elementary school, nevermind college.
    Posted by jrcahill[/QUOTE]

    Wonderlick is a strict 12mins no exceptions have ever been reported. Most players admit they don't finish the 50 questions in 12mins but lets say they do then if he takes a little over twice as long to read as the other guys on average just to read the questions he only has 30-40s just to read each question. I know the test isn't hard but if he only takes 30-40s to read the question then he can only read through 18-24 questions total (not including taking time to think about the question in order to answer it). And, that's if you think he's only mildly dyslexic.

    The kid I tutored could take 2-4mins to read a single sentence depending on the size of the sentence. He graduated college but if he was given the wonderlick he'd only be able to read 3-6 questions in the 12mins yet alone answer them. He didn't even have the most server form either. 

    There are plenty of kids with this learning disability who graduate college, so yes it is possible to get through school barely being able to read with assistance and the right intelligence

     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    envy is just a killer isn't it? many of us here have advanced degrees but would rather have a shot at a career where you earn gazillions of dollars playing a sport you love. and because he has that opportunity and we don't, we have to press on an imperfection he has. bottomline the 4 does not matter, whether it's dyslexia or he's dumb, because he's proven he ca play.
     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    TitleTown11-
    Your accusation that Mo is unintelligent and only role in life is a football player is direct assault of the man's character and frankly racist. If Matt Kalil scored a 4 on the Wonderlic Test, it would not even be break the news. Therefore i believe you are A RACIST!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]TitleTown11- Your accusation that Mo is unintelligent and only role in life is a football player is direct assault of the man's character and frankly racist. If Matt Kalil scored a 4 on the Wonderlic Test, it would not even be break the news. Therefore i believe you are A RACIST!!
    Posted by Ball Dont Lie[/QUOTE]

    Umm okay Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson/Stephen A/Jemele Hill/Jason Whitlock!

     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    Jemele Hill is an honest working african american woman who provides daily(non racial) opinions on the everyday sports world. All the others i agree are racists.
     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    There's only 2 "Mo's" worth knowing...  The first is Mo the Bartender on "The Simpsons" (easily the best character on there).  The second one, is the "Mo" who thought that by knocking out Drew Bledsoe, it would actually be a negative for The Pats...Mo Lewis, or Saint Mo Lewis, as I like to refer to him. 
     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    true there is no direct correlation between the wonderlic test and football ability, but thats not what its for.  its a measure of basic human intelligence.  this is a person who someone may be considering paying millions of dollars to do basic human things like showing up to work.  working and communicating with both peers and press.  being a handsomely paid professional. being a person who represents your billion dollar organization.  i don't care who you are, if you score a 4 on that test you are a meat puppet.


    being a professional football player involves a lot more than just playing football.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    Jemele Hill might not be a racist but she is an awful reporter. It's laughable that she's on TV. Her articles are terrible and her insight on espn is awful.

     
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    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne : Do you understand correlation ? This test is not a predictor of anything with respect to NFL performance.  Not at all.  Some players have scored poorly and excelled in the NFL, and some have scored extremely well and been NFL busts.
    Posted by nyjoseph[/QUOTE]

    Ben Watson ... for one. 

    A reading disability certainly negates any results from a written test like the Wonderlic. This is really just academic, one would think.

    I've had a dyslexic student who might not have gotten a four on this test, but was one of the top students in the chemistry, focusing on petro-chemistry. 

    It's really apples and oranges comparing non-RD kids and the wonderlic, and RD kids and the wonderlic. 

    I mean, Rex Ryan, one of the top defensive minds (terrible GM though) in the game, is dyslexic and can't read anything. 

    I works out for him, and he would probably flunk the wonderlic as well. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mo Claiborne : Reading skills? Most of the questions are about numbers or comparing shapes. Here are some sample questions.... 1. Look at the row of numbers below. What number should come next? 8 4 2 1 ½ ¼ ? 2. Assume the first two statements are true.  The boy plays baseball. All baseball players wear hats.  Is the final one:  The boy wears a hat. 1. true, 2. false, 3. not certain?   3. Paper sells for 21 cents per pad. What will four pads cost? 4. How many of the five pairs of items listed below are exact duplicates?  Nieman, K.M. Neiman, K.M. Thomas, G.K. Thomas, C.K. Hoff, J.P. Hoff, J.P. Pino, L.R. Pina, L.R. Warner, T.S. Wanner, T.S. 5. RESENT RESERVE • Do these words  1. have similar meanings, 2. have contradictory meanings, 3. mean neither the same nor opposite? 6. One of the numbered figures in the following drawing is most different from the others. What is the number in that figure? 7. A train travels 20 feet in 1/5 second. At this same speed, how many feet will it travel in three seconds? 8. When rope is selling at $.10 a foot, how many feet can you buy for sixty cents? 9. The ninth month of the year is 1. October, 2. January, 3. June, 4. September, 5 May. 10. Which number in the following group of numbers represents the smallest amount?  7 .8 31 .33 2
    Posted by TitleTown11[/QUOTE]



    People with reading disabilities most often don't acquire shapes either. There is little difference to the brain between a shape and a letter, a letter is a shape after all. Also, it usually impacts auditory imputs based on shapes and numbers, so just barking those same figures at the person doesn't help at all.

    People with visual-spatial LD would need an entirely different test to gauge. You are pointing at it and saying ... look how easy these are .... when your brain doesn't recognize shapes and letters it can be impossible. 

    Furthermore, any multiple choice test is the kiss of death for a person with LD. When trying to decipher written words, numbers, shapes, they are taught from a young age to use contextual clues, i.e., what other shapes/letters.etc are around it that clue you into its meaning. 

    Multiple choice absolutely destroys contextual relationships, which is (of course) the point of the test and why they are so easy for people who don't rely on contextual layout to derive meaning from a set of symbols. 



     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Mo Claiborne

    Wonderlic is also not an accurate bellwether of a players' performance. 

    Wonderlic scores of recent Pats corners ...

    Darius Butler was a 25, Devin McCourty was a 28.

    Asante Samuel was a 9. A 9. 

    We know Butler was a bust. What are the chances that DMC has a career as good as Samuel's?

    Even without that context, Samuel's 9 score was only fractionally better than Claiborne ... Samuel doesn't even have a reading disability, and he worked out just fine. 
     
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