Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    To wit, legendary QB Sammy Baugh, also punted, and with a then goofy ball, held the single season record (51.4 yd average in 1940, as detailed by BB on NFL.com), in punting. And despite the improvement in kickers over the decades, this record still stands.



    Baugh was a spectacular athelete. There is no way to measure what he could have accomplished in this day and age.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    To wit, legendary QB Sammy Baugh, also punted, and with a then goofy ball, held the single season record (51.4 yd average in 1940, as detailed by BB on NFL.com), in punting. And despite the improvement in kickers over the decades, this record still stands.

     



    Baugh was a spectacular athelete. There is no way to measure what he could have accomplished in this day and age.

     

     

     



    As a side note, Baugh also held the season completion % record for decades (70.3%, in 1945, when the league average at the time was in the mid 40s).  

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

     

    If you folks want to go purely by stats please read the following:

    First about Otto Graham with the Browns.

    In fact, they'd go on to set a record that still stands, appearing in six straight NFL championship games from 1950 to 1955, winning three of them. Bottom line: Graham played in a pro football championship game every single season of his 10-year career, winning seven of them in two different leagues.

    Bart Starr: 9-1 in playoff history with 5, count em 5 NFL titles in six seasons.

    One could make the argument that league talent wasn't as good in the Graham or Starr days in the NFL but the same argument could be made saying the NFL talent is much better now than in Montana's day. Bottom line for me is who was the best QB of their generation and not all-time. Because just based on stats of winning Championships both Graham and Starr stand out as the best. Starr 9-1 in post season is mind boggling.  

    Hetch

     



    Yeah, and I'm about tick of the locals but that accomplishment is much like Bill Russell's 11 championships at a time when the NBA had 8 teams.  We're talking about a league at that time who had about a third of the teams (12).  Not only were athletes smaller but the NFL simply couldn't attract top athletes at that time.  

     

    People would get drafted and choose to go work in the family business because they could make more money.  They would have second jobs while playing.   NFL team probably only had a handful of guys who were truly "professional" caliber athletes. The NFL didn't really become what we know to day in terms of popularity and salary until the 70's and even then major rule changes in the late 70's make a completely different sport where old records and statistics should really be kept separate.  

    In Montana's day there were still 28 teams and athletes were making millions so the best athletes were playing, but the 50 and 60's... Those guys may have been great by today's standards but there's no way to know.  

    I mean do you really think some guy could come in and play QB/RB/LB like back in the day or was it just a case of a "professional" athlete by today's standards playing with guys who would be amateurs by today's standards.

     



    You could say that about all sports. Using this reasoning. perhaps today Babe Ruth wouldn't be that good.  And what if those guys had the preparation , training & coaching (In part,  due to their predecessors) they have now? 

    To wit, legendary QB Sammy Baugh, also punted, and with a then goofy ball, held the single season record (51.4 yd average in 1940, as detailed by BB on NFL.com). And despite the improvement in kickers over the decades (Punting averages are about 7 yards longer now than even in the 70s), this record still stands.

    As a side note, Baugh also held the completion % record for decades (70.3%, in 1945, when the league average at the time was in the mid 40s).  



    I would say that about all sports, but different sports reached their peak at different times.  As I recall Ruth made $100,000 and baseball was at its most popular in Ruth's time so it was attracting the best athletes, but at some point I'm sure it wasn't.  The NBA is the same.

    I'm not saying Baugh wasn't great but come on. What did he do punt seven times.  He threw 182 passes for the completion record, today's QBs are throwing 400-600 passes.  It's just a completely different sport.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

     

    If you folks want to go purely by stats please read the following:

    First about Otto Graham with the Browns.

    In fact, they'd go on to set a record that still stands, appearing in six straight NFL championship games from 1950 to 1955, winning three of them. Bottom line: Graham played in a pro football championship game every single season of his 10-year career, winning seven of them in two different leagues.

    Bart Starr: 9-1 in playoff history with 5, count em 5 NFL titles in six seasons.

    One could make the argument that league talent wasn't as good in the Graham or Starr days in the NFL but the same argument could be made saying the NFL talent is much better now than in Montana's day. Bottom line for me is who was the best QB of their generation and not all-time. Because just based on stats of winning Championships both Graham and Starr stand out as the best. Starr 9-1 in post season is mind boggling.  

    Hetch

     



    Yeah, and I'm about tick of the locals but that accomplishment is much like Bill Russell's 11 championships at a time when the NBA had 8 teams.  We're talking about a league at that time who had about a third of the teams (12).  Not only were athletes smaller but the NFL simply couldn't attract top athletes at that time.  

     

    People would get drafted and choose to go work in the family business because they could make more money.  They would have second jobs while playing.   NFL team probably only had a handful of guys who were truly "professional" caliber athletes. The NFL didn't really become what we know to day in terms of popularity and salary until the 70's and even then major rule changes in the late 70's make a completely different sport where old records and statistics should really be kept separate.  

    In Montana's day there were still 28 teams and athletes were making millions so the best athletes were playing, but the 50 and 60's... Those guys may have been great by today's standards but there's no way to know.  

    I mean do you really think some guy could come in and play QB/RB/LB like back in the day or was it just a case of a "professional" athlete by today's standards playing with guys who would be amateurs by today's standards.

     



    You could say that about all sports. Using this reasoning. perhaps today Babe Ruth wouldn't be that good.  And what if those guys had the preparation , training & coaching (In part,  due to their predecessors) they have now? 

    To wit, legendary QB Sammy Baugh, also punted, and with a then goofy ball, held the single season record (51.4 yd average in 1940, as detailed by BB on NFL.com). And despite the improvement in kickers over the decades (Punting averages are about 7 yards longer now than even in the 70s), this record still stands.

    As a side note, Baugh also held the completion % record for decades (70.3%, in 1945, when the league average at the time was in the mid 40s).  

     



    I would say that about all sports, but different sports reached their peak at different times.  As I recall Ruth made $100,000 and baseball was at its most popular in Ruth's time so it was attracting the best athletes, but at some point I'm sure it wasn't.  The NBA is the same.

     

    I'm not saying Baugh wasn't great but come on. What did he do punt seven times.  He threw 182 passes for the completion record, today's QBs are throwing 400-600 passes.  It's just a completely different sport.  

     



    He punted 35x that yr in a 12 game season; he also had a lifetime 45.1 average (338 punts). You must have known it wasn't 7 punts, just like you knew how many passes he threw. 

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

     

     



    He punted 35x in a 12 game season; he also had a lifetime 45.1 average (338 punts). You must have known it wasn't 7 punts, like you knew how many passes he threw. Weak.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't know how many punts, don't be so sensitive.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    Good stuff folks!  I normally don't engage in debating "eras," especially ones I didn't see.  Take Johnny Unitas - by the time I was cognizant of football, he was at the end of his career (same with Willie Mays in baseball).  But as some have mentioned, if the all-time greats of other eras had our era's resources (workout regimens/full-time coaching, etc.) would they be just as good?  Perhaps.  Also, "back-in-the-day" the overwhelming majority of professional football (and baseball) players had jobs in the off-season because the pay was not where near what it is now.  And what about the aging process - given what we know now about diets, working out, exercise - who's to say that Slingin' Sammy wouldn't have played longer?  It's fun to toss these ideas around - but I'm content to say that our TB, at the end of his career and for as long as football is played, will be universally recognized as one of the very, very best to have played his position.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    nobody talks about that though....  

    i'll take brady over montana any day.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)




    Montana in the SB:

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

     



    He punted 35x in a 12 game season; he also had a lifetime 45.1 average (338 punts). You must have known it wasn't 7 punts, like you knew how many passes he threw. Weak.

     



    I didn't know how many punts, don't be so sensitive.  

    [/QUOTE]

    OK

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.



    no i didnt nh...my point is who montana had to play and/or beat to get there

    the teams he lost to like the giants were superior to what brady has faced

    look at the last two years: last year an 8-8 Denver team at home and the Ravens at home-who are legit and tough and could have won but one tough game at home to get to the sb and this year? texans better than last years denver team certainly but still crashing to earth and exposed and at home and again the ravens, who again are legit and tough and could win-i cannot put that competition in the class of what montana faced, nor can i put the 00's AFC in the clas of the 80's NFC

    my point is montana's NFC was a tougher fight than Brady's AFC (or to be fair Bradshaw and Staubach's 70's Conferences) and the teams he had to play was stiffer competition-

    but as I said i think the greats of the 60's and 70's had it easier too...i think the 80s and 90's NFC was the hardest to play thru to the sb

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     




     

    Don't agree. And why all the names here for other great QBs? I'm no martyr, but I have great respect for Brady, for example, and wouldn't resort to such a thing. Generating this juvenilia for an opponent is actually unflattering for the protagonists. I doubt Brady calls PM "Gomer" behind closed doors. Ditto in referring to Eli (although his greatness, as a result of 2012, can now be questioned again), Rodgers, and others with similar nicknames.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     



    no i didnt nh...my point is who montana had to play and/or beat to get there

     

    the teams he lost to like the giants were superior to what brady has faced

    look at the last two years: last year an 8-8 Denver team at home and the Ravens at home-who are legit and tough and could have won but one tough game at home to get to the sb and this year? texans better than last years denver team certainly but still crashing to earth and exposed and at home and again the ravens, who again are legit and tough and could win-i cannot put that competition in the class of what montana faced, nor can i put the 00's AFC in the clas of the 80's NFC

    my point is montana's NFC was a tougher fight than Brady's AFC (or to be fair Bradshaw and Staubach's 70's Conferences) and the teams he had to play was stiffer competition-

    but as I said i think the greats of the 60's and 70's had it easier too...i think the 80s and 90's NFC was the hardest to play thru to the sb

     




    i said NH i meant Babe

    lol...i need more coffee!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to sporter81's comment:

    nobody talks about that though....  

    i'll take brady over montana any day.




    "any day"? now thats just homerism and downright silly

    u can take brady and make a cogent argument but montana was too great for u to take anyone over him "any day"

    the greats dont haveall that much separating them and to say brady would be that superior to montana is ridiculous

    come one you think brady is running roughshod over the nfc of he 1980's with the jints, skins, 85 bears, buddy ryan's eagles?

    and  u think Montana could ring up 4 rings with bellichick and the pats d/vinitieri?

    they are BOTH all timers so u can argue for either effectively but "any day"? u r smarter than that sporter

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     




     

    Don't agree. And why all the names here for other great QBs? I'm no martyr, but I have great respect for Brady, for example, and wouldn't resort to such a thing. Generating this juvenilia for an opponent is actually unflattering for the protagonists. I doubt Brady calls PM "Gomer" behind closed doors. Ditto in referring to Eli (although his greatness, as a result of 2012, can now be questioned again), Rodgers, and others with similar nicknames.




    What are these "names" you claim I have called other great QBs than the college prankster?

    You're seriously giving me a hard time because I call P Manning Fetus Head on a Patriots' board? Talk about juvenile. REALLY - get over yourself.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to sporter81's comment:

     

    nobody talks about that though....  

    i'll take brady over montana any day.

     




    "any day"? now thats just homerism and downright silly

     

    u can take brady and make a cogent argument but montana was too great for u to take anyone over him "any day"

    the greats dont haveall that much separating them and to say brady would be that superior to montana is ridiculous

    come one you think brady is running roughshod over the nfc of he 1980's with the jints, skins, 85 bears, buddy ryan's eagles?

    and  u think Montana could ring up 4 rings with bellichick and the pats d/vinitieri?

    they are BOTH all timers so u can argue for either effectively but "any day"? u r smarter than that sporter

     



    I'll take Rembrandt over Van Gogh any day. Schopenhauer over Aristotle too.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     




     

    Don't agree. And why all the names here for other great QBs? I'm no martyr, but I have great respect for Brady, for example, and wouldn't resort to such a thing. Generating this juvenilia for an opponent is actually unflattering for the protagonists. I doubt Brady calls PM "Gomer" behind closed doors. Ditto in referring to Eli (although his greatness, as a result of 2012, can now be questioned again), Rodgers, and others with similar nicknames.

     




     

    What are these "names" you claim I have called other great QBs than the college prankster?

    You're seriously giving me a hard time because I call P Manning Fetus Head on a Patriots' board? Talk about juvenile. REALLY - get over yourself.



    hi babe!

    as an old time fan i think u will agree with me here-and i have felt this way since i was a youngster:

    if u were an all-time great talent u would have been great in ANY era...it's impossible to compare eras and games change and athletes evolved and we over-glorify the past and under-appreciate the present, etc...

    to me, ty cobb would have been great today and albert pujols would have been great in the 20's and 30's...to keep it in Boston Ted Williams could hit in any era, Pedro could pitvch in any era, Orr would be a top 3 D in any era

    that type of talent transcends time...Heaven for us sports fans would be the match-ups we won't see in this world...how much would u pay to see the 67 Packers play the 85 Bears? how about koufax pitching to Ruth? Randy Johnson pitching to Willie Mays? Bonds vs Gibson? Russell vs Shaq?

    Ali vs Marciano? Tyson vs Louis? Sugar ray vs Sugar Ray?!

    this is why i say montana and brady are both in the pantheon

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     



    my point is montana's NFC was a tougher fight than Brady's AFC (or to be fair Bradshaw and Staubach's 70's Conferences) and the teams he had to play was stiffer competition-

    but as I said i think the greats of the 60's and 70's had it easier too...i think the 80s and 90's NFC was the hardest to play thru to the sb

     



    So the NFCCG was the tougher contest then and the SB is the tougher contest now.

    So Montana is 4-3 in NFCCGs and Brady is 3-2 in SBs, and Montana is 4-0 in SBs and Brady is 5-1 in AFCCGs. They both have superlative records in the less tough contests and not so spectacular records in the tougher ones.

    You're still defeating your own argument jints.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     




     

    Don't agree. And why all the names here for other great QBs? I'm no martyr, but I have great respect for Brady, for example, and wouldn't resort to such a thing. Generating this juvenilia for an opponent is actually unflattering for the protagonists. I doubt Brady calls PM "Gomer" behind closed doors. Ditto in referring to Eli (although his greatness, as a result of 2012, can now be questioned again), Rodgers, and others with similar nicknames.

     




     

    What are these "names" you claim I have called other great QBs than the college prankster?

    You're seriously giving me a hard time because I call P Manning Fetus Head on a Patriots' board? Talk about juvenile. REALLY - get over yourself.

     



    hi babe!

     

    as an old time fan i think u will agree with me here-and i have felt this way since i was a youngster:

    if u were an all-time great talent u would have been great in ANY era...it's impossible to compare eras and games change and athletes evolved and we over-glorify the past and under-appreciate the present, etc...

    to me, ty cobb would have been great today and albert pujols would have been great in the 20's and 30's...to keep it in Boston Ted Williams could hit in any era, Pedro could pitvch in any era, Orr would be a top 3 D in any era

    that type of talent transcends time...Heaven for us sports fans would be the match-ups we won't see in this world...how much would u pay to see the 67 Packers play the 85 Bears? how about koufax pitching to Ruth? Randy Johnson pitching to Willie Mays? Bonds vs Gibson? Russell vs Shaq?

    Ali vs Marciano? Tyson vs Louis? Sugar ray vs Sugar Ray?!

    this is why i say montana and brady are both in the pantheon




    I agree the oldtimers were great, and they probably would have been great in any era. But if you're going to try and define the best ever you have to look at it all and come to some conclusion that you can make a compelling case for.

    I believe if you account for ALL factors that one could judge a QB for, only Brady is rated so high in every one of them except running. Montana is arguably right there with him, But the rest ALL have areas of criteria where they aren't in the mix among the top performers who ever played the game.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     




     

    Don't agree. And why all the names here for other great QBs? I'm no martyr, but I have great respect for Brady, for example, and wouldn't resort to such a thing. Generating this juvenilia for an opponent is actually unflattering for the protagonists. I doubt Brady calls PM "Gomer" behind closed doors. Ditto in referring to Eli (although his greatness, as a result of 2012, can now be questioned again), Rodgers, and others with similar nicknames.

     




     

    What are these "names" you claim I have called other great QBs than the college prankster?

    You're seriously giving me a hard time because I call P Manning Fetus Head on a Patriots' board? Talk about juvenile. REALLY - get over yourself.



    Peyton Manning - Gomer, Horsehead

    Eli - Opie

    Rodgers - (I forget now)

    Personally, I think Montana looks a little more like ET, but I guess that wasn't unflattering enough.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     




     

    Don't agree. And why all the names here for other great QBs? I'm no martyr, but I have great respect for Brady, for example, and wouldn't resort to such a thing. Generating this juvenilia for an opponent is actually unflattering for the protagonists. I doubt Brady calls PM "Gomer" behind closed doors. Ditto in referring to Eli (although his greatness, as a result of 2012, can now be questioned again), Rodgers, and others with similar nicknames.

     




     

    What are these "names" you claim I have called other great QBs than the college prankster?

    You're seriously giving me a hard time because I call P Manning Fetus Head on a Patriots' board? Talk about juvenile. REALLY - get over yourself.

     



    hi babe!

     

    as an old time fan i think u will agree with me here-and i have felt this way since i was a youngster:

    if u were an all-time great talent u would have been great in ANY era...it's impossible to compare eras and games change and athletes evolved and we over-glorify the past and under-appreciate the present, etc...

    to me, ty cobb would have been great today and albert pujols would have been great in the 20's and 30's...to keep it in Boston Ted Williams could hit in any era, Pedro could pitvch in any era, Orr would be a top 3 D in any era

    that type of talent transcends time...Heaven for us sports fans would be the match-ups we won't see in this world...how much would u pay to see the 67 Packers play the 85 Bears? how about koufax pitching to Ruth? Randy Johnson pitching to Willie Mays? Bonds vs Gibson? Russell vs Shaq?

    Ali vs Marciano? Tyson vs Louis? Sugar ray vs Sugar Ray?!

    this is why i say montana and brady are both in the pantheon

     




    I agree the oldtimers were great, and they probably would have been great in any era. But if you're going to try and define the best ever you have to look at it all and come to some conclusion that you can make a compelling case for.

     

    I believe if you account for ALL factors that one could judge a QB for, only Brady is rated so high in every one of them except running. Montana is arguably right there with him, But the rest ALL have areas of criteria where they aren't in the mix among the top performers who ever played the game.

     



    And, of course, Unitas is overlooked. 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    Even among those in the know, IE - the experts, this is a type of argument that will never get resolved.  For as many stats you can give to support a Starr, you have many for Montana and then Brady and whoever else you want to throw in the mix.  One thing we can ALL agree on, each of the QBs being mentioned in this discussion are worthy of "best of all time" and may depend on the "time" in which they played.  I am very glad we, as Pats' fans, happen to have had the pleasure of rooting for one of the greatest, TB who played for our team!!  GO PATS!!!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    like ot see 2 more sb obviously for brady.

    but montana's 4-0 super bowl record needs to have parenthesis 

    (not counting the no cap, eddie d gangster $ era)

     




    Montana in the SB:

     

    11 tds  0 ints  4-0

    and he played in an era where his conference won 8 sb's in 10 years and contained the 85 bears and the NFC east with 2 jints sb, 3 redskins sb and the eagles of buddy ryan  in the 2nd half of that decade as well as the 80-82 cowboys who went to 3 straight NFCCG with a host of (old) hall of famers

    brady is an all time great, probably top 5 and i have reluctant but great respect for him-always feared what he can do when playing the pats

    but montana had much stiffer competition and was the best sb qb ever-brady is fabulous he is not montana

     

     


    You just defeated your own argument when you noted the NFC SB dominance of his era. So it seems the NFCCG was the real SB. He was 4-3 in those with 13 TDs and 7 INTs.


    Also, if SBs were all a QB was judged on then Joe would be the man hands down. But there is a whole hell of a lot more to it than that. Otherwise Fetus Head wouldn't even be top 10.

     




     

    Don't agree. And why all the names here for other great QBs? I'm no martyr, but I have great respect for Brady, for example, and wouldn't resort to such a thing. Generating this juvenilia for an opponent is actually unflattering for the protagonists. I doubt Brady calls PM "Gomer" behind closed doors. Ditto in referring to Eli (although his greatness, as a result of 2012, can now be questioned again), Rodgers, and others with similar nicknames.

     




     

    What are these "names" you claim I have called other great QBs than the college prankster?

    You're seriously giving me a hard time because I call P Manning Fetus Head on a Patriots' board? Talk about juvenile. REALLY - get over yourself.

     



    Peyton Manning - Gomer, Horsehead

     

    Eli - Opie

    Rodgers - (I forget now)

    Personally, I think Montana looks a little more like ET, but I guess that wasn't unflattering enough.




    The only one I have called anything here is Fetus Head. And I will mock him until the day he comes clean on his dastardly behavior in college.

     

    Don't confuse me with other people. And they call Eli Goober, not Opie.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Even among those in the know, IE - the experts, this is a type of argument that will never get resolved.  For as many stats you can give to support a Starr, you have many for Montana and then Brady and whoever else you want to throw in the mix.  One thing we can ALL agree on, each of the QBs being mentioned in this discussion are worthy of "best of all time" and may depend on the "time" in which they played.  I am very glad we, as Pats' fans, happen to have had the pleasure of rooting for one of the greatest, TB who played for our team!!  GO PATS!!!

     

    Finally. the voice of reason appears

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Montana 4-3 in Champ Game, 4 one and done's; Brady 5-1 in ch game, 2 one and done in playoffs

    As the King would say...   " Thahnk you very muhhch!!!  (-;

     

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