More AH Trial Complications

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    More AH Trial Complications

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20140414/aaron-hernandez-ed-obannon-oscar-pistorious/index.html

    AH's trial is becoming more complex as charges against former accessories, Wallace and Ortiz have been upgraded to Murder.

    SI Legal analyst Michael McCann correctly points out that the main goal of the prosecution is force Wallace, Hern's right hand man to turn against him as the ante is upped to life imprisonment for murder vs. 7 year's for accessory. However, the risk is complicating the trial by either trying 3 at once or 3 separate trials. The possibility with this strategy is no one is found culpable if Wallace does not agree to turn state evidence in return for a deal. 

    Up to this point Wallace has resisted all attempts to squel on Hern. Will the possilbility of life imprisonment be enough to motivate him? I hunch he is a very cool character who is not easily frightened by the DA (who is acting either more smartly or desperately depending on how you view it). Obviously, they are going to make Wallace an "attractive deal" as they did previously with Ortiz but is he too loyal to take it? Furthermore, this trial could get pretty wild if 3 defendants are tried at once and each has vastly different accounts of the events! What would a jury do in that case?

    Furthermore, do not expect any trial to commence until at least Spring 2015 or later if 3 separate trials is the route.   

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    In response to NYC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20140414/aaron-hernandez-ed-obannon-oscar-pistorious/index.html

    AH's trial is becoming more complex as charges against former accessories, Wallace and Ortiz have been upgraded to Murder.

    SI Legal analyst Michael McCann correctly points out that the main goal of the prosecution is force Wallace, Hern's right hand man to turn against him as the ante is upped to life imprisonment for murder vs. 7 year's for accessory. However, the risk is complicating the trial by either trying 3 at once or 3 separate trials. The possibility with this strategy is no one is found culpable if Wallace does not agree to turn state evidence in return for a deal. 

    Up to this point Wallace has resisted all attempts to squel on Hern. Will the possilbility of life imprisonment be enough to motivate him? I hunch he is a very cool character who is not easily frightened by the DA (who is acting either more smartly or desperately depending on how you view it). Obviously, they are going to make Wallace a deal as they did previously with Ortiz but is he too loyal to take it? Furthermore, this trial could get pretty wild if 3 defendants are tried at once and each has vastly different accounts of the events! What would a jury do in that case?

    Furthermore, do not expect any trial to commence until at least Spring 2015 or later if 3 separate trials is the route.   

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yea a 5h*tstorm would be an understatement. Not much to add NYC, you basically covered all the scenarios and I am in agreement. They are desperate to make anything stick at this stage and are in danger of flubbing it up all together and settling on gun charges. Wallace doesnt look the talking type but what do I know...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    The DA overcharged based on the information they had at the time of arraingment...neither guy will testify for the prosecution...AH has deep pockets and is probably bankrolling the whole schmaer, including hush payments and jail canteen for the guys...

    The DA in that county isn't very good...his track record on muder cases is bad...I bet AH walks on the murder 1 charge....the only real trouble will be the gun possession and gun trafficing charges.

    If you want to kill someone in MA, do it in Bristol County!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    by charging the 2 friends, doesnt that mean if one of them is found guilty, they are all guilty?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    From a public relations perspective the prosecution is looking more desperate. First, they tried to make a deal with Ortiz and he changed his story; now they are knocking hard on Wallace's door and if he doesnt' answer they are looking like fools. Trying 3 people at once could be a fiasco if "joint venturing" cannot be proved. McCann asserts it is quite hard to prove "joint venturing" under Mass law if the individuals were taking taking drugs and not capable of proper decisionmaking. And all may claim they were taking drugs. 

    A deeper and more immediate question is what does Wallace value more: his freedom or loyalty? If he is really old school, he may value loyalty to his friends and partners more. We will see.....  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    by charging the 2 friends, doesnt that mean if one of them is found guilty, they are all guilty?

    [/QUOTE]

    Depends on the nature of the charges and if they are involved in "joint venture" which needs beaucoup evidence to prove...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    In response to NYC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    From a public relations perspective the prosecution is looking more desperate. First, they tried to make a deal with Ortiz and he changed his story; now they are knocking hard on Wallace's door and if he doesnt' answer they are looking like fools. Trying 3 people at once could be a fiasco if "joint venturing" cannot be proved. McCann asserts it is quite hard to prove "joint venturing" under Mass law if the individuals were taking taking drugs and not capable of proper decisionmaking. And all may claim they were taking drugs. 

    A deeper and more immediate question is what does Wallace value more: his freedom or loyalty? If he is really old school, he may value loyalty to his friends and partners more. We will see.....  

    [/QUOTE]

    I think normally, Wallace would have no problem telling on a punk like Hern but its the connection to his deceased father that would make him loyal IMO. Look at the age of Wallace. This is a guy who ran with his pops and was most likely mentoring/protecting AH for years so I dont see him giving him up, esp. when there is potential for them all to get off on gun charges.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fanonymost. Show fanonymost's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    these guys are in deep with some very bad folks in a culture where "rats" are exterminated on a daily basis ... I don't see any of them blinking no matter how high the heat is turned up by the feds

    on the other hand, given how self-destructive these types can get, they'll likely be dead way before their time whether behind bars or on the street

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    Media (Comcast, Fox etc.) have painted this as a negative to Hern because they see that the prosecution only needs to prove 1 person did the crime, not which one. 

    What is not seen is the PR implication of inducing 2 guys to turn state's evidence and to potentially fail with both. Ortiz because he is a liar and can't be trusted and Wallace because he may too loyal to turn. If these inducements somehow come out at trial it could put the prosecution in a bad moral light as trying to buy a verdict and failed twice. Furthermore, "joint venturing" is a very difficult verdict to pull off. Sure, the prosecution has video of them going into and out of the murder scene and lots of suspicious behavior like AH destroying the home surveilance system but there is no video of a murder nor a witness. If they each assert  they were taking drugs and thus operating under impaired judgement it will be difficult to prove common knowledge of a plot or not having taken steps to stop it. What could result is chaos in the court room and only 1 juror of 12 needs to have reasonable doubt for all to go free. 

    I am not in position to judge the efficacy of the Bristol County DA's office but they may be unwittingly opening the door to AH's freedom rather than closing it. Unfortunately, we will need to wait a year or so to see what a jury will decide....

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    I don't understand how he was over charged in the beginning based upon the evidence?

    Doesnt it have to be murder 1 if someone pulls out a gun and shoots someone??

    I would think the tapes , the destruction of the tape machine, and the wielding of the gun, the victim being with him and that whole context? The car being in herns name? Doesn't there have to be physical evidence?

    i didn't think it was imperative that they have the gun?

    One would think that the da has cell found records of where everyone was? 

    But with the history of celebrities getting off, that wouldn't surprise me

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    How are these "complications"?  It's fairly obvious these guys were in a gang. The question is, how many murders and how big was the syndicate which ran from Florida to New England.

    This is just a situation where enough evidence is there to charge each in conjunction with what they have on Hernadez.  One or both will plea to divulge more details and Hernandez will end up serving the most time.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't understand how he was over charged in the beginning based upon the evidence?

    Doesnt it have to be murder 1 if someone pulls out a gun and shoots someone??

    I would think the tapes , the destruction of the tape machine, and the wielding of the gun, the victim being with him and that whole context? The car being in herns name? Doesn't there have to be physical evidence?

    i didn't think it was imperative that they have the gun?

    One would think that the da has cell found records of where everyone was? 

    But with the history of celebrities getting off, that wouldn't surprise me

    [/QUOTE]

    AH has great attorney's...the Bristol County DA is the worst in all of MA...everything out of that office is politically motivated...he wants to be the MA AG...he's not very good at his job....trust me, this case was no slam dunk to begin with..all evidence must be known to both sides and all of it can be argued as to efficacy an/or constitutionality and submissability...it ain't over till it's over...the only charges that are a gaurenteed knockout are the weapons charges...watch...if the two "associates" stay with their non statements and only AH is seen as pulling the trigger it could be claimed it's an accidental shooting...is there any visual evidence to say otherwise? None that's been cited yet!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: More AH Trial Complications

    In response to mellymel3's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I don't understand how he was over charged in the beginning based upon the evidence?


    Doesnt it have to be murder 1 if someone pulls out a gun and shoots someone??


    I would think the tapes , the destruction of the tape machine, and the wielding of the gun, the victim being with him and that whole context? The car being in herns name? Doesn't there have to be physical evidence?


    i didn't think it was imperative that they have the gun?


    One would think that the da has cell found records of where everyone was? 


    But with the history of celebrities getting off, that wouldn't surprise me


    [/QUOTE]

    AH has great attorney's...the Bristol County DA is the worst in all of MA...everything out of that office is politically motivated...he wants to be the MA AG...he's not very good at his job....trust me, this case was no slam dunk to begin with..all evidence must be known to both sides and all of it can be argued as to efficacy an/or constitutionality and submissability...it ain't over till it's over...the only charges that are a gaurenteed knockout are the weapons charges...watch...if the two "associates" stay with their non statements and only AH is seen as pulling the trigger it could be claimed it's an accidental shooting...is there any visual evidence to say otherwise? None that's been cited yet!


    [/QUOTE]

    our government at work  lol


    I was thinking about an accidental claim?/ that is why all must be charged with murder ?


    Thanks for your ideas on this


    I am not following this close;ly , but the tape of him right after the shooting in his house seems


    to be very damming and then him trying to destroy his video machine.


    I dont understand the weapons charge - waht is that base upon?


    And if by chance he ,has a registered gun, has he produced it? if he cannot that would be damning,


     


    I cna wait for the trial - it will be interesting


     


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
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