More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    UD6, I have a question for you. In 2006 when the Colts won it all. They went into the playoffs with one of the worst rush Defenses in the league but in postseason they cleaned it up and did very well on their way to a Sb berth. So it is really that detrimental that our Rush D is bad? I mean lets define bad as well. Anyone watch Dallas on defense last night? Thats a bad D ALL AROUND. They have played 2 games this year where they havent even forced their opponent to Punt!!! Thats an Awful Defense that makes ours look a lot better.

    Chicago  is even worse in Run Defense. Demarco got over hundred yards with ease. Chicago was giving up 8 yards per at one time. People havent counted them out yet.

    My thinking is that as of late, our Pass Defense and lack of pass rush is more concerning to me than the rush defense and here is why. I find it very hard to believe that BB would go into a playoff game and allow his team to be run on up and down the field. Yes in 2009 coincidently, we DID get blown out by Bmore and they ran all over us but that team had NO grit or Heart. I would Imagine if the stakes are Us going home, BB would load up and allow us to compete and we would mininize the damage. What I CAN see is a good QB coming in here and carving up this secondary even with a healthy Talib because of a lack of pass rush.

    So thats why I said, I aint worried about having the 31st rated Run D. The teams that go far like to pass the ball. Seattle is the only one who runs more than pass and if have to worry about them,. thats a good thing cuz we made it to NY where anything can happen.

    Time to do some different things in the next few weeks to try to make that a strenght again. Flacco will pick us apart if we dont pressure him and with Pitta back, Gregory is on watch. Lets hope BB cooks up something nice. I would like for once to see them play agressive in postseason. Weve seen the bend but dont break limit our offensive posessions and we always lose low scoring game. Time to let these guys loose this year.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    The Colts D gave up an average of 162 yards a gm on the ground highlighted by gms where they gave up 191, 214, 227, 249, and even 375.

    They gave up 44, 83, 93, 111 in their 4 postseason games. An average of 82 yards per game. So they essentially cut their reg. season # in half. Even without scheming, you have to factor in a decrease of atleast 25 yards just due to the hightened play of our D in postseason and the fact there is more to play for.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    Good,post TOG.

    we are ranked either 31st or 32nd in run D I thought? It's bad whatever it is, but I am not concerned. 

    I think the pats will get it together for the post season. I am more concerned with our lack of pass rush, as I believe this is the biggest problem causing us to consistently give up 3rd and longs. I think we are ranked near last in 3rd down conversions. That is more troubling to me. 

    reading Reiss mailbag this morning, I am tempering my expectations for the defense. We just can't expect much out of this defense given how it has been decimated with injury. If we can get better on 3rd down, create a turnover every once and a while and try to get some pressure on the Qb, we will be okay. 

    the challenge with all of that is we can't seem to generate pressure with our front 4. It requires us to send 5-6 rushers and then when we do, we expose ourselves downfield and as we have seen, give up 3rd and 20 screens. 

    Honestly, I just don't know if we have the talent left on D to create pressure. We need to find a way.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Colts D gave up an average of 162 yards a gm on the ground highlighted by gms where they gave up 191, 214, 227, 249, and even 375.

    They gave up 44, 83, 93, 111 in their 4 postseason games. An average of 82 yards per game. So they essentially cut their reg. season # in half. Even without scheming, you have to factor in a decrease of atleast 25 yards just due to the hightened play of our D in postseason and the fact there is more to play for.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Did their post season opponents have a strong run game to begin with? Seems odd that they can just cut it in half without doing anything differently. i leave it to UD6 here because I don't follow the colts that closely to know how or if they adjusted their D postseason in that year.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Colts D gave up an average of 162 yards a gm on the ground highlighted by gms where they gave up 191, 214, 227, 249, and even 375.

    They gave up 44, 83, 93, 111 in their 4 postseason games. An average of 82 yards per game. So they essentially cut their reg. season # in half. Even without scheming, you have to factor in a decrease of atleast 25 yards just due to the hightened play of our D in postseason and the fact there is more to play for.

     



    Did their post season opponents have a strong run game to begin with? Seems odd that they can just cut it in half without doing anything differently. i leave it to UD6 here because I don't follow the colts that closely to know how or if they adjusted their D postseason in that year.

    [/QUOTE]

    They Buckled down. KC and Bmore were both dominant run teams and they put in the work to get it done. I think its just a matter of emphasis. Right now situationally weve been ran on, but I dont think a team will just gash us down the field with Siliga and Soap available now.

    Where we disagree is that we dont have the talent to rush. Weve seen Buchanan show flashes early but no playing time lately. Collins can be an effective rusher from edge or blitz inside. Its about give and take and making a commitment. Matty P knows BB stresses not giving up the big play and no you cant blitz all the time but sometime you gotta guess right. In redzone for example. Stopping the run, you have to sellout. BB trys to cover everything sometimes and we still get burnt. BB and Matty P need to trust the defense to get there and decide when its only pass situation and bring it. Every team blitzes at some point. BB needs to ask himself, is this bend but dont break gonna work in postseason. I dont think it is. Use timely blitzes to allow your D to get off the field. Errant passes lead to turnovers. Its no wonder we never get t/o's cuz teams run more, Qb protect the ball better. You have to force the issue, or risk your D being bled to death

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    Makes sense. My point was we ain't getting pressure with the front 4, requiring us to send 5-6 like Collins, Hightower,mspikes, etc. 

    buchanon has been alright, but there is a reason bb is playing more of carter now, he obviously doesn't trust him to hold the edge. 

    I personally would like to see Collins more as a blitzer. And, I want us to blitz more. The only thing the 4 man rush is doing,is giving up yards and clock. no rush means the secondary and lbs have to cover longer. So, why not help them and roll the dice with a blitz? If we get to the QB fast, the only outlets are going to be short and over the middle stuff. Flacco for example won't have time to let Tory smith run 40 yards downfield if we can get there faster. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    I personally would like to see Collins more as a blitzer. And, I want us to blitz more. The only thing the 4 man rush is doing,is giving up yards and clock. no rush means the secondary and lbs have to cover longer. So, why not help them and roll the dice with a blitz? If we get to the QB fast, the only outlets are going to be short and over the middle stuff. Flacco for example won't have time to let Tory smith run 40 yards downfield if we can get there faster. 



    From what I can tell last week when we rolled the dice we got burned.  Gordon's 80 yard TD came on a blitz.

    ESPN seems to agree:

    "Jason Campbell torched the Patriots defense, especially when New England sent at least five rushers. Campbell was 9-of-11 for 205 yards and three touchdowns against the blitz, including 4-of-5 for 122 yards and an 80-yard touchdown targeting Josh Gordon."

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    Late in the game when the opponent needs to score would you rather have a weak run D or a weak pass D?  To me that answers the question.  A weak run D can be hidden by game situation.  A weak pass D cannot.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    "torched". lol

    Guy made one slant pass to Gordon for  TD.  NE was hosed on 5 egregiously bad calls which allowed Cleveland to keep the ball for longer drives.  See the "Officiating" thread for confirmation on that.

    There should be more consternation about officiating at this point.




    Taking that play out if these numbers are correct Campbell was 8-10 for 125 and 2 TDs against the blitz.  That still qualifies as torched in my book.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Makes sense. My point was we ain't getting pressure with the front 4, requiring us to send 5-6 like Collins, Hightower,mspikes, etc. 

    buchanon has been alright, but there is a reason bb is playing more of carter now, he obviously doesn't trust him to hold the edge. 

    I personally would like to see Collins more as a blitzer. And, I want us to blitz more. The only thing the 4 man rush is doing,is giving up yards and clock. no rush means the secondary and lbs have to cover longer. So, why not help them and roll the dice with a blitz? If we get to the QB fast, the only outlets are going to be short and over the middle stuff. Flacco for example won't have time to let Tory smith run 40 yards downfield if we can get there faster. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Precisely Lifer. We are in agreement here. Ive said it since Tedy was flying around in 2002. We are a better defense when we attack. Its ok to read and react some times but letting the offense dictate is bad news  in postseason. Force the issue,make them play your way. Look at how teams come at Brady in playoffs like mad dogs and he cant pull through, yet we allow a bum QB on the other end to light us up?!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    What this discussion means is the Pats, in spite of their D, can make a SB run and win it.  The glass IS half FULL!!!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I personally would like to see Collins more as a blitzer. And, I want us to blitz more. The only thing the 4 man rush is doing,is giving up yards and clock. no rush means the secondary and lbs have to cover longer. So, why not help them and roll the dice with a blitz? If we get to the QB fast, the only outlets are going to be short and over the middle stuff. Flacco for example won't have time to let Tory smith run 40 yards downfield if we can get there faster. 

     



    From what I can tell last week when we rolled the dice we got burned.  Gordon's 80 yard TD came on a blitz.

     

    ESPN seems to agree:

    "Jason Campbell torched the Patriots defense, especially when New England sent at least five rushers. Campbell was 9-of-11 for 205 yards and three touchdowns against the blitz, including 4-of-5 for 122 yards and an 80-yard touchdown targeting Josh Gordon."

    [/QUOTE]


    Yea but that was late in the game on a run blitz which we hardly run cuz BB assumed Norv would be conservative and kill clock. He went for the kill but it still should not have been a score. Thats not what Im talking about. Im talking in game, not end of games but I see your point. We dont send many extra guys. Its about mixing it up at right time. 3 and 10 seems like a good time. 3rd and very long, you have to be careful not to get burnt on a screen.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Late in the game when the opponent needs to score would you rather have a weak run D or a weak pass D?  To me that answers the question.  A weak run D can be hidden by game situation.  A weak pass D cannot.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yep!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

     

    "torched". lol

    Guy made one slant pass to Gordon for  TD.  NE was hosed on 5 egregiously bad calls which allowed Cleveland to keep the ball for longer drives.  See the "Officiating" thread for confirmation on that.

    There should be more consternation about officiating at this point.

     




    Taking that play out if these numbers are correct Campbell was 8-10 for 125 and 2 TDs against the blitz.  That still qualifies as torched in my book.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    didnt realize that but Campbell is not a slouch in terms of passing but I imagine they only sent 5. Like I used to say with Manning. Either bring it or stay back. 5 man rush dont work unless the Offense doesnt expect it. We dont see many well timed blitzes like we did with Rodney here and Vrable..,,but still gotta time it up and come a few times a game. The 3-4 is supposed to allow that unkown rusher but we have been playin simple in your face D with no wrinkles lately. We arent talented enough to say here we are, now try to move the ball. We need creativity

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    THe Colts D upped its game when their S Sanders came back (I believe he had been out for a while). They also gambled some.

    The Pats could gamble on some plays and have some guys like Highhtower and Spikes and a safety or two who are not bad that way. But the risk is in giving up the pass and against guys like Manning that is a huge risk that might not be worth it.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    I believe a bad pass D is more detrimental than a bad run D. While it would be great to be good in both areas, I think even a bad run D can step up and make stops when needed more than a bad pass D (since you are more unikely to get off the field on 3rd down).

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I believe a bad pass D is more detrimental than a bad run D. While it would be great to be good in both areas, I think even a bad run D can step up and make stops when needed more than a bad pass D (since you are more unikely to get off the field on 3rd down).

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. Gald we are all in agreement. My feeling is 9 men can stack the box for the run. How do you protect arrington on the outside if he is there by himself. Its not a team game outside on the island. RUn D can be all hands on Deck. Time to crank up the pass rush!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    In response to melswitt's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Having both being bad is truly a losing proposition...how it's attacked depends entirely on the opposition's offensive strengths....gameplan will try to set up the run to put the passing game in good position, draw up the safties to help stop the run in the box, then WAM, go deep  if you can in the passing game...a team with decent TE's could also have a field day in this scenario...like Baltimore...Miami with decent RB's and Wallace and Hartline...even Buffalo with good RB's and decent WR's and TE...that game's at home, I expect we'll win here in the last game of the season where Buffalo has nothing but pride (HA!) and jobs to play for...all three are an issue as far as I can see...

    Run d sucking will kill us in the playoffs because just about every team we'll see should have a good Oline and runners....they'll be able to pass after running on us because we'll have to bring up the safeties into the box to help stop them on 3rd down.....lord help us....

    [/QUOTE]


    Damn Mell dont kill my Vibe!?!?   LOL

    Sobering post but unfortunately a realistic possibility

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D

    It is all matchups.

    You can have a weakness and the other team knows what it is but if they don't have a strength to exploit that weakness then it doesn't matter.

    If they have a strength to exploit that weakness but not a stregth in other areas to prevent you from using more resources to help that weakness then it doesn't matter.

    Hence the importance of trying to build the most complete or balanced team possible.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: More Detrimental for Postseason - Weak Run D or Weak Pass D


    Not worried, we will outscore any body we play

     

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