More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Underdogg you are so full of it, Dungy is a defensive coach! You cant praise Dungy and then turn around and say your defense s ucked. Dungy was a defensive coach so if your defense was no good that means your coaching was no good. And if Belichick had to work with that D he would have made it work becuase thats what a good defensive coach does. Can you even name our CBs during those super bowl years? since you are so convinced we were a stacked defense? Tell me how many pro bowlers did we have on those defenses? Will McGinnis was always considered "too old" as was teh rest of our patch work defense. We were known for winning with less then star worthy players so i dont know whwre you get this impression that our D was so great. We did what we could with what we had and we just so happened to have great coaching. If Dungy was not good enough to do what he could with what he had then the blame belongs on him not his D.

    And its not fandom speaking I just happen to think that if Manning had to try and win with out his star WRs he would be lost. He would have never gotten it done with guys like David Givens.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Tas - thats why with the departure of dungy we also got rid of our dc.  But its not just coaching, its personnel too. 

    As for probowlers/all-pros during this decade on defense:

    Seymour, McGinest, Wilfork, Izzo, Vrabel, Bruschi, Law, Harrison, Samuel, Milloy. 

    That is a pretty significant group.   
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]Alfie - Its my opinion that a QB makes a receiver better moreso than a receiver making a QB better.  Regardless of how good the receiver is, he cannot throw the ball to himself.  Additionally, Manning does more at the line re: adjustments and play calling than any QB in the NFL.  The position is more than just throwing the ball.  I really don't think the league MVP trophy is given 3 times to a guy who is good mainly because of his supporting cast.  That suggestion completely detracts from not just Manning, but also those who were considered for the award but did not win.   
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]
    two words; Dan Marino.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    That's 4 words - What's your point?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Underdogg a lot of those guys you named didnt get to teh pro bowl till 2007 and last time i checked we didnt win the super bowl that year and you were talking about our super bowl winning teams.

    Willie McGinnis was not a pro bowler, seymore was I will give you that. Are you really going to try and use Izzo as an example? He was ent as a ST player not defense. Vrabel didnt go to the pro bowl till 2007, Bruschi went to the pro bowl once in his career, Ty Law got a few nods for the pro bowl i will give you that, Rodney Harrison only went to two pro bowls in his entire career and i dont think either came while he was a Pat. asante Samuel was a good player you got me on that one, and Milloy only played on one of our super bowl teams.


    Now lets look at your team, you say you dont have a defense so lets look


    Bob Sanders = hype hype hype. How can you claim he is one of the best in football if you plays for such a bad D as you suggest?

    Dwight Freeny = hype hype hype. So let me get this straight you would probally consider Freeny the best pass rusher in football, so you have super hype Freeny rushing teh passer and super hype Sanders maning the D backs but you D was bad? sounds liek poor coaching to me.

    Mathis = not so much hype but i am sure you would say he is a good player off the edge so thats two good pass rushers. that does not sound so bad to me.

    Gary Bracket = Indy Hype. What i mean is he is not huped by the media liek Freeny and sanders but you guys in Indy seem to hype him up as a top ILB. So thats at least one good middle linebacker. So thats two good DEs and the super hype Bob Sanders plus a good Linebacker and you still claim to have a bad D?

    Indy's CBs = indy hype. You have over the last season talked up your CBs like they are all pro bowlers so if they are so good how is it your D is so bad?

    So thats two good DEs, super hype Bob Sanders, Indy Hype gary Bracket and your CBs who you say are good but yet your D is so bad that it clearly couldnt be Manning fault that you choke every year? Your D does not sound so bad. How many of those guys have made the pro bowl? I know Sanders and Freeny get votes every year.

    Cato June was super hyped when he was with your team as were a few others but yet you sit here and maintane that your D is the reason you lost all the time? give me a break. Dungy was a defensive coach and he had plenty of time to fill that roster out with his players. So all the people you throw under the bus on that D are Dungy players, guys he drafted or got after because he thought they fit his puss puss Tampa Two defense but yet it was the players fault they s ucked? put the blame where it belongs, you had a coach who was super hyped as a defensive coach and then came to town and according to you gave you bad defense so how does that work? I mean if you hire a guy to fix your D and he doesnt fix your D how does he keep his job?

    With all the guys I have mentioned from your D I would say Belichick would have put together a good enough D for Brady to win with. That is not fandome that is me being straight with you, Belichick is known for working good with what he has and with all those guys i just named from your team that I am sure you would say are good enough players Belichick would have put together a squad good enough for Brady to win. So with that said I dont think the same can be said for Manning. I dont think if you gave him the Pats old WRs he could win, i think he would fold like a chair with our old WRs how ever with your old defense i think Belichick would have still won ball games. But then agin Belichick is a good coach and Dungy is a sh*tty coach.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]That's 4 words - What's your point?
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]
    OK, I'll walk you through it. If, as you say, its the QB who makes hs supporting cast better, as opposed to the supporting cast making the QB better, as I say, then dan marino (two words; count them again), an all-time top-10 QB on anyone's list, should have won a half dozen superbowls. QED.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Maybe the Colts have good DBs.  Honestly, I haven't looked into their roster. 

    Historically, the Colts DL got them in trouble with the Patriots.  BB would call 15 running plays in a row up Indy's gut because that's what you do to a flyweight but fast pass-oriented defense.  (BB once called zero running plays in the first half against the Minnesota Vikings, and that worked out well also.)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]Underdogg a lot of those guys you named didnt get to teh pro bowl till 2007 and last time i checked we didnt win the super bowl that year and you were talking about our super bowl winning teams. Willie McGinnis was not a pro bowler, seymore was I will give you that. Are you really going to try and use Izzo as an example? He was ent as a ST player not defense. Vrabel didnt go to the pro bowl till 2007, Bruschi went to the pro bowl once in his career, Ty Law got a few nods for the pro bowl i will give you that, Rodney Harrison only went to two pro bowls in his entire career and i dont think either came while he was a Pat. asante Samuel was a good player you got me on that one, and Milloy only played on one of our super bowl teams. Now lets look at your team, you say you dont have a defense so lets look Bob Sanders = hype hype hype. How can you claim he is one of the best in football if you plays for such a bad D as you suggest? Dwight Freeny = hype hype hype. So let me get this straight you would probally consider Freeny the best pass rusher in football, so you have super hype Freeny rushing teh passer and super hype Sanders maning the D backs but you D was bad? sounds liek poor coaching to me. Mathis = not so much hype but i am sure you would say he is a good player off the edge so thats two good pass rushers. that does not sound so bad to me. Gary Bracket = Indy Hype. What i mean is he is not huped by the media liek Freeny and sanders but you guys in Indy seem to hype him up as a top ILB. So thats at least one good middle linebacker. So thats two good DEs and the super hype Bob Sanders plus a good Linebacker and you still claim to have a bad D? Indy's CBs = indy hype. You have over the last season talked up your CBs like they are all pro bowlers so if they are so good how is it your D is so bad? So thats two good DEs, super hype Bob Sanders, Indy Hype gary Bracket and your CBs who you say are good but yet your D is so bad that it clearly couldnt be Manning fault that you choke every year? Your D does not sound so bad. How many of those guys have made the pro bowl? I know Sanders and Freeny get votes every year. Cato June was super hyped when he was with your team as were a few others but yet you sit here and maintane that your D is the reason you lost all the time? give me a break. Dungy was a defensive coach and he had plenty of time to fill that roster out with his players. So all the people you throw under the bus on that D are Dungy players, guys he drafted or got after because he thought they fit his puss puss Tampa Two defense but yet it was the players fault they s ucked? put the blame where it belongs, you had a coach who was super hyped as a defensive coach and then came to town and according to you gave you bad defense so how does that work? I mean if you hire a guy to fix your D and he doesnt fix your D how does he keep his job? With all the guys I have mentioned from your D I would say Belichick would have put together a good enough D for Brady to win with. That is not fandome that is me being straight with you, Belichick is known for working good with what he has and with all those guys i just named from your team that I am sure you would say are good enough players Belichick would have put together a squad good enough for Brady to win. So with that said I dont think the same can be said for Manning. I dont think if you gave him the Pats old WRs he could win, i think he would fold like a chair with our old WRs how ever with your old defense i think Belichick would have still won ball games. But then agin Belichick is a good coach and Dungy is a sh*tty coach.
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    Nice break down.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Tas, I understand, but the fact that these guys didn't make it until 07 doesn't mean they were crappy players in 2004.  Look, I included Bethea who made it in 07 and Mathis who made it in 08 for the colts.  The point that I was trying to make was that Tom Brady has benefitted from the defenses he has had while Manning has suffered somewhat due to the D's he has had. 

    Per your request, you asked for the probowlers.  I named them and all-pros since Brady has been around and they are twice as many as Manning.  Here's the link:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/all-pros.htm

    My apologies on Izzo.  I was just taking from the info provided.  Rodney Harrison was a 1st team all pro - did not make probowl.  All these players would rather be 1st team all pro than pro bowler.  

    When Bob Sanders is healthy he is one of the best, but he is injured too frequently.  He did win NFL Defensive MVP.  Don't know how you can be much better than that, but again, injured too frequently the last couple of year to be enough of an impact for the team.  

    Again, remember, I am saying that Brady had the benefit of a great d while Manning did not.

    I think you are wrong about Freeney.  

    By the way, if the players sck (as you say) how is that the coaches fault?
     
    Mathis is not nearly as good as Freeney.

    Tas - you are making my arguement for me.  The colts have not been great on D in this decade.  They are getting better.  I like how our D tackles look now.  D ends good.  Linebackers - weakness.  DB's very good.

    June lucked into a probowl, he was not as good as advertised. 

    Dungy is a defensive coach, but he is head coach.  He had to rely on his DC.  I think Dungy had flaws.  He very rarely made adjustments.  If his system is working the way it should, then it is not necessary, but that was not always the case.

    I am excited for the new HC and DC.  We will see how things change this year.  I do think Belichick is an excellent coach.  Probably the best.  I don't care for him because of some of his antics, cheating, etc.  but that has nothing to do with coaching.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009 : OK, I'll walk you through it. If, as you say, its the QB who makes hs supporting cast better, as opposed to the supporting cast making the QB better, as I say, then dan marino (two words; count them again), an all-time top-10 QB on anyone's list, should have won a half dozen superbowls. QED.
    Posted by unclealfie[/QUOTE]

    alfie - my response is that football is a team game.  If Tom Brady is the best player in the NFL (as many of you say) how come he has not won the Superbowl every year.  The answer is because (just like Marino) he doesn't make interceptions, he does not participate in goal line stands or kick field goals or rush the quarterback, tackle running backs, etc.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bchan89. Show bchan89's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Who cares about the Colts, it has been sweet not hearing about Peyton so far this year. ESPN now has his brother, cassel and the dufoos in Chicago to follow around and give us updates on every meal and how many times he poopped today.  This is Boston.COM not Indy.com
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Not worried about the OL, regardless of the fact that Ugoh was (temporarily?) demoted.  Howard Mudd is the best OL coach in football and he always puts together good lines.  A lot of depth on the line this year, too.  (And they may need it, as we hear Diem goot hurt today!)  It'll take a lot of injuries to put them in as bad a situation on the OL as they were last year.  (And if you didn't notice, the Colts still won 12 games!)
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]In Response to More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009 : TEX: I agree with your stance on the colts. Tony Yugo will be considered a bust for sure if he remains a second stringer. I look for the Colts to be competitive, but, by no means dominant. I'm not so sure this years top pick,RB Donald Brown will pan out either. I don't think their team is quick enough or tough enough upfront on both sides of the ball to contend for a title. That and a rookie head coach will be the demise of the Colts this season.  How I see it: JAX -W (barely) @MIA- L @AZ- L SEA -W @TEN-L @STL-W SF-W HOU-W NE-L @BAL-W, might lose this too @HOU-L TEN-L DEN-W @JAX-L NYJ-W BUF-W 9-7 outside looking in , no postseason
    Posted by jbolted[/QUOTE]

    That season ending game in Buffalo maybe interesting. Especially if it's anything like last year Pats finale it will be up to the running games to win that game. Passing will be no factor.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]Not worried about the OL, regardless of the fact that Ugoh was (temporarily?) demoted.  Howard Mudd is the best OL coach in football and he always puts together good lines.  A lot of depth on the line this year, too.  (And they may need it, as we hear Diem goot hurt today!)  It'll take a lot of injuries to put them in as bad a situation on the OL as they were last year.  (And if you didn't notice, the Colts still won 12 games!)
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    Jules - You are right about Mudd, but Ugoh has not yet lived up to his draft place.  The Oline is and has been a good pass blocking team, plus Manning's awareness keeps him from sacks.  Polluck and Richard earned valuable experience last year.  Lets hope it shows.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Speaking of Colts O-Line saw this on Rotoworld tonight.

    www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif" alt="" width="400" height="1" />
    Colts RT Ryan Diem "could be out a while" after suffering a back injury in Tuesday's training camp practice.
    Tony Ugoh is a starter again, one day after being demoted. Diem, 30, started all 16 games last season, although he was frequently injured before then.

     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]Not worried about the OL, regardless of the fact that Ugoh was (temporarily?) demoted.  Howard Mudd is the best OL coach in football and he always puts together good lines.  A lot of depth on the line this year, too.  (And they may need it, as we hear Diem goot hurt today!)  It'll take a lot of injuries to put them in as bad a situation on the OL as they were last year.  (And if you didn't notice, the Colts still won 12 games!)
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE] 
     
    Your stellar Oline rushed 22 times for 64 yards in the playoffs. On the defensive side of the ball they gave up 3 TDs on the ground. Basically, the guys upfront on both sides of the ball for Indy are soft.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Jbolt - you are right about the line last year.  injuries really hurt us.  We started 5 different line combinations due to injury last year and then a 6th different combination for our playoff game against your team last year. A lot of musical chairs and it hurt us, particularly in the playoffs.  Addai's injury did not help either.  There is certainly hope for better outcomes this year, but I would say that OL and LB are our area's of biggest concern.  Hopefully, DT improvements help the LB's.

    Our DT situation was a mess, lb was musical chairs.  We have to do better.  We held your team to 120 yds in our win at your place during the RS, but just could not hold up sproles in the PO game. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    "Howard Mudd is the best OL coach in football" - Jules

    Well that is not possible because the Pats have the best O Line coach in football in Daunte Scarnetchia (or how ever it is spelt) so clearly you are mistaken.

    Russ Grimm is one h ell of an O line coach as well.

    And Andy Reed used to be a pretty good O line coach as well.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    spoken like the Tas we all know. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    LOL thank you I try
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    So a few bad things have happened to the colts already:

    Clark - concussion
    Sorgi - on crutches
    Sanders - not yet healthy
    Bethea - broken hand
    Diem - back strain
    Ugoh - demoted

    tough, but I think the colts will find a way to be ok.  Lets all hope there aren't more injuries.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]So a few bad things have happened to the colts already: Clark - concussion Sorgi - on crutches Sanders - not yet healthy Bethea - broken hand Diem - back strain Ugoh - demoted tough, but I think the colts will find a way to be ok.  Lets all hope there aren't more injuries.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    There's always more injuries. That's the wildcard in the NFL, who will end up injured, how long, what will be the impact of injuries. That's why team depth is always important.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         With all due respect to our Indy friends, if Bob Sanders isn't 100% and ready to go, the Colts are in trouble in 2009. Never has such a little man (relatively speaking) had such a big impact on a defense, as Sanders has had in Indy. 

         Sanders is recovering from surgery on his right knee. Though his knee appears to be sound, the muscles in the leg need to be strengthened, before he will be able to once again take the field. This process could reportedly take anywhere from 4-6 weeks.

         Not good: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090813/SPORTS03/908130417/1058/SPORTS03/When+will+Sanders+play?+Colts+can+t+say
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Who cares what's going on in Colts camp? I'll pay attention to them when we play them. Can't we go back to talking about the meaning of life?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    The meaning of life is the Colts s uck balls! lol


    here doggy doggy doggy lol
     

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