More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    TP - I agree and disagree with you.  A healthy, committed Sanders is a beast.  The problem is that the destruction that a healthy, committed Sanders creates also seems to destroy him as well. 

    I frequently think that his "in and out of the lineup" ways cause the colts as many problems as committing to someone else for an entire year.  Melvin Bullitt was fantastic last year, and I believe, could effectively fill that role as a #1.   
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]The meaning of life is the Colts s uck balls! lol here doggy doggy doggy lol
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    sometimes you are an idiot.  lol
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         Heres' a "report card", sort of speak, from the Indy Star's Bob Kravitz...which chastises the Colts for horrific tackling and poor OL play...and praises the new Indy punter, and RBs Joe Addai and, especially, Donald Brown: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090815/SPORTS15/908150436/1058/SPORTS03/Kravitz++Some+things+never+change.

         One other thing...DT Raheem Brock suffered a hand injury...which may be more serious than initially thought. The Colts injury list continues to grow: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090816/SPORTS03/908160362/1058/
    SPORTS03/Brock+wearing+cast++Colts+vague+on+injury
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    I haven't paid this much attention to a colts preseason ever, so I cannot really comment if all of this is par for the course or not. 

    My observation at this time is that with the exception of the Ugoh issue, I really saw very poisitive things from the colts in their first week or so of camp, until the game. 

    Now it cannot be discounted that 10 regular starters missed the game including 2 of 5 on the O-line, but I am not really sure that even the most avid colts fan can explain away the poor performance.  I did not see the game, but it did not sound great.  

    Regardless of the few snaps that Manning and the rest of the dressed and playing first string got, when they were on the field they needed to be better. 

    The injuries (and again I don't know if this is par) seem excessive.  Bob Sanders does not count, because he is always out.  The good news is that none of these (yet) have been season ending. 

    I will still err on the side of cautious optimism and 3 more weeks to work these things out, but I don't think the best colts fans can say this has been a positiove start. 
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Underdogg le tme ask you this, if you could get rid of Bob Sanders right now for a more reliable safety would you do it?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Tas - Its a good question, but not yet.    

    in 05 and 07 sanders played almost a full year and was a first team all-pro both years and DPOY in 07.  I think missing 10 games last year after signing his big contract has turned the spotlight on him a bit, but I don't think that means you give up on a guy.  Brady was the MVP in 07, is paid a ton of money, and missed the entire year.  I know its not apples to apples but the comparison still stands, and I don't think the pats are giving up on Brady. 

    I don't think Indy can give up on Sanders.  Yet.

    One other thing - Sanders issue currently is his knee.  When I think about the negatives that people cite - too small for the way he plays and hits - its not the knees I worry about.  Its the shoulders or the concussions, ripped biceps, etc.  A knee injury can happen to anyone and in a variety of ways that is both unexpected and sometimes unavoidable.  

    If sanders continues to breakdown from the waist up, then I think the colts have an issue.  If he comes back healthy from his knee issue and plays well, then he a player worth his salary. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Well no one is saying that when healthy he is not worth the cash cause when he is healthy he is worth every peny but the problem is he is not healthy enough. You bring up Brady but it does not really relate, before Brady's one injury he was an iron man who never missed a game. Behind only Manning and farve for consecutive games played so he has only been hurt once but Sanders get hurt almost every season.

    I asked you teh question and you gave me your anwser and that is perfectly exceptble but for me I would rather draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round to play behind him and if that person can be a little more stable then Sanders i might even trade Sanders and see what I can get for him.

    And if i was you I would be worried about the knee, i know what you mean by syaing that his knees have never been the issue but the way he plays he needs his knees to be 100%. He cant mak ethe hits or the plays he makes if he cant put the rightkind of leverage on his knee. The fact that he has had issues with his upper body and now his lower body is a scarey thought. If Sanders was a Pat I would want them to start shopping him around, I mean if this guy was in his 30s like Rodney Harrison was when he started getting hurt i would be ok with it but he is a young player and he does not live up to his end of the bargan.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Tas - I agree with you.  We do have a quality back up in Bullitt.  The question is would anyone pay for Bob Sanders.  With an injury, no one is worth their contract, including Tom Brady.  After their injury, it is a different question. 

    I am hopeful the knee is ok.  We will see. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         Heres' more on whats' going on in Indy...with the primary focus on the Colts' OL: http://www.examiner.com/x-4450-Indianapolis-Colts-Examiner~y2009m8d18-This-weeks-Magnificent-Seven-On-a-pair-of-running-backs-and-the-Indianapolis-Colts-offensive-line
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009 : That's the problem with small players like BobZilla.  They play hard, do well and really smack into people, but then they usually break down quickly because they aren't 300 pound linemen and the chaps they hit are sometimes 300 pounders.  Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]
    Good Point about the matchups. BB has bucked the trend for more bulk at CB, preferring, smaller, faster more athletic types over the bigger guys that have been coming out of college over the past several years.
    Bobzilla is the key player in the Colts defense, though. With our re-stocked D- backfield, no one guy is unreplacable. For the Colts defense to loose BobZilla would be like our offense loosing Tommy.  
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Alfie - we missed Bob for 10 games last year, Marlin Jackson for 9, and Kelvin Hayden for 6, yet we still went 12-4.  Not bad if you ask me.

    Second - Sanders is a safety not CB

    Finally, As for Sanders size, I would imagine that most fans wouldn't have a problem with a 6'1" 221# SS.  If not, then why have an issue with Sanders?  He is 5'8" 206# which equates to the above number. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    I bet you could get a 1st and a 2nd round pick for Sanders from a team like Dallas.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         Still more concerns expressed about the Indy OL: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-08-18/poor-game-has-colts-linemen-seeking-improvement
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Does Ryan Diem still play for Indy?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    TP - its an AP story.  You could probably find multiple outlets with this.  Just because it is reported more than once doesn't mean it is a different story. 

    Mighty - Yes.  Diem was out the entire year last year with a knee injury.  He is back. 
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         According to that "AP" article, Diem missed the Minnesota game with back problems:


         "Right tackle Ryan Diem sat out with a back injury and new left tackle Charlie Johnson was held out after having offseason shoulder surgery. Diem's replacement, Tony Ugoh, was playing in his first NFL game on the right side and most of the regulars left after the first series."

         It appears that the Indy OL has lots of nicks. This spells potential trouble for Peyton...as we saw in the Viking game. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    TP - The entire team seems to be nicked up - more on D than O. 

    Diem hurt his back more than a week ago.  There was serious concern at the time, but it turned out to not be that serious.  Diem practiced yesterday and intends to play against Philly on Thurs.

    Additionally, I think the story ultimately got it wrong.  With both Diem and Johnson out, Ugoh started at his old position of LT and Corey Hilliard was a RT.  Hilliard gave up 2 of the sacks on Manning and the 3rd came through the middle. 

    Charlie Johnson is recovering from an offseason torn pec muscle, but will be fine and has practiced. 

    This is exactly what preseason games are for - evaluation.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         After having suffered 4 concussions in 5 years...the latest on Aug 8th...one has to wonder about the health of Indy's star TE, Dallas Clark: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090819/SPORTS03/908190385/1058/SPORTS03/Colts++Clark+ready+to+go+after+latest+concussion
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    TP - the colts cut the player that gave up 2 sacks at RT.  That was quick.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

              Bill Polian is one of the best personnel men in the game today. He has built the Indianapolis Colts into a perrenial contender, through the draft. But, did he make a mistake in 2007, when he traded his 4th round pick, plus his #1 pick in 2008, for OT Tony Ugoh? Is Ugoh a bust? http://www.indystar.com/article/20090812/SPORTS15/908120380/1058/SPORTS03/Is+Ugoh+a+bust+at+left+tackle?+That+s+up+to+him
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]          Bill Polian is one of the best personnel men in the game today. He has built the Indianapolis Colts into a perrenial contender, through the draft. But, did he make a mistake in 2007, when he traded his 4th round pick, plus his #1 pick in 2008, for OT Tony Ugoh? Is Ugoh a bust? http://www.indystar.com/article/20090812/SPORTS15/908120380/1058/SPORTS03/Is+Ugoh+a+bust+at+left+tackle?+That+s+up+to+him
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, but who really cares?  As you said, he is one of the best.  Even he would tell you that the hits vs. miss ratio is not 100% hits.  If Ugoh does not re-earn his spot, he will have started 2 years and be the #1 back up.  Not what you want out of a 2nd rd pick that you took by giving up a first. 

    But even if this happens, Ugoh, with 23 starts in 32 games missing 6 to injury has been more effective in his first 2 years than Brandon Merriweather, Laurence Maroney, Daniel Graham, and maybe even Ben Watson. 
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]     As is the case with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning needs solid protection to be at his best. That said, there may be a problem for the Colts at the all important LT spot. OG Charlie Johnson is being moved to LT, to replace the disappointing incumbent, Tony Ugoh: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090810/SPORTS03/90810037/1100/Johnson+returns+to+practice++replaces+Ugoh+on+starting+line      You may remember that Ugoh was acquired in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft to replace the then retiring Tarik Glenn. Bill Polian traded his #1 draft choice in 2008, plus a 4th rounder, to get him. If Ugoh isn't the player that Indy hoped he'd be, this would be a major blow to the Colts'...and could speed along a possible decline in the AFC South: http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/2009/08/now_starting_at_lt.html        Expect the Colts to run the ball and screen more often in 2009, with RBs Donald Brown and Joseph Addai. Perhaps this may help to keep defenses honest, and take some pressure off their OL.  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    The strength of the Indy O line has always been getting away with holding. Once they start clamping down on their sticky fingers the way they've clamped down on touching receivers Indy is done. I'm sorry but they're just not that good that Peyton should have any time to throw in a completely one-dimensional offense.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    "But even if this happens, Ugoh, with 23 starts in 32 games missing 6 to injury has been more effective in his first 2 years than Brandon Merriweather, Laurence Maroney, Daniel Graham, and maybe even Ben Watson. " - Underdogg


    WRONG!

    This is so bogus. Merriwhether had 84 tackles last season, 4 INTs, 2 sacks, and 2 forced fumbles. That is a very good season for a second year player and that is a heck of a alot more production then you got out of Ugoh. Maroney had almost 800 yards in his first season with the team and in 2007 he ran like a pro bowler so again that is way more production then you got out of Ugoh. Dan Graham won two super bowls with this team and was a starter for like 3 or 4 years so again he gave us way more production then Ugoh. And Ben Watson might be a let down but he has been a starter for a very long time and has started more games then Ugoh so if you want to talk about games started he has you beat. So none of teh guys you listed are worse off then Ugoh is right now.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]In Response to More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009 : The strength of the Indy O line has always been getting away with holding. Once they start clamping down on their sticky fingers the way they've clamped down on touching receivers Indy is done. I'm sorry but they're just not that good that Peyton should have any time to throw in a completely one-dimensional offense.
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely outlandish comment.  Nothing more to say.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009 : Absolutely outstanding comment.  Nothing more to say.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]
     

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