More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]"But even if this happens, Ugoh, with 23 starts in 32 games missing 6 to injury has been more effective in his first 2 years than Brandon Merriweather, Laurence Maroney, Daniel Graham, and maybe even Ben Watson. " - Underdogg WRONG! This is so bogus. Merriwhether had 84 tackles last season, 4 INTs, 2 sacks, and 2 forced fumbles. That is a very good season for a second year player and that is a heck of a alot more production then you got out of Ugoh. Maroney had almost 800 yards in his first season with the team and in 2007 he ran like a pro bowler so again that is way more production then you got out of Ugoh. Dan Graham won two super bowls with this team and was a starter for like 3 or 4 years so again he gave us way more production then Ugoh. And Ben Watson might be a let down but he has been a starter for a very long time and has started more games then Ugoh so if you want to talk about games started he has you beat. So none of teh guys you listed are worse off then Ugoh is right now.
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    Merriweather may be better, but as of this writing there is no logical way to say that.  Merriweather could not beat out an injury prone has been of a 15 year veteran in Rodney Harrison.  Maroney can't stay healthy and is a skittish runner.  Ben Watson is on the cutting block, Daniel Graham caught 38 balls in his most productive season with a poor set of receivers (at least that is what most pats fans say) and the best QB in the world (another patriotism).   
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009 :
    Posted by prairiemike[/QUOTE]

    sneakyInnocent
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    "Merriweather may be better, but as of this writing there is no logical way to say that.  Merriweather could not beat out an injury prone has been of a 15 year veteran in Rodney Harrison.  Maroney can't stay healthy and is a skittish runner.  Ben Watson is on the cutting block, Daniel Graham caught 38 balls in his most productive season with a poor set of receivers (at least that is what most pats fans say) and the best QB in the world (another patriotism). "  - Underdogg

    Sometimes Undy you truely dont know what you are talking about. Its not that Merriwhether couldnt beat out Rodney for teh starting job, the Pats do things differently then your team. We dont have a single starter. We found ways to work him in and keep Rodney as well. They both added something valued to teh team so they were both given playing time.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009 : sneaky
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    I'm trying to find some stats on the lack of offensive holding calls by the Colts but I understand why you're so sensitive, http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2759_You'd_be_ornery_if_you_were_a_Colts_fan,_too.html. This is a great article summing up a pretty ugly history of serial underachieving frachise. I'll keep looking..
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Tas - Harrison was washed up, just like the colts Harrison was.  Each of our teams kept the historically great player playing only because there was not a better option. 

    Baron - You must be just like the pundits.  You expect great things from the colts every year too.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    The following link is a terrific article on how a few statistical categories or in this case one category has a great effect on the outcome of games. The stat is Offensive Holding Penalties Against or OHPA, http://www.armchairanalysis.com/nfl-situational-trend-109.html.
    We have all seen Peyton play and ALWAYS gets the ball away legally right? He ALWAYS gets the ball away even when his best offensive lineman are injured right? I guess with a sub-standard, injury-riddled pass blocking line in a one-dimensional pass offense he ALWAYS gets the ball away legally, NEVER gets sacked or penalized for holding. Hmmm...

     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]Tas - Harrison was washed up, just like the colts Harrison was.  Each of our teams kept the historically great player playing only because there was not a better option.  Baron - You must be just like the pundits.  You expect great things from the colts every year too.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    Its all good. I do have irrational superstitions concerning the NFL and their application of the rules from team to team. I do believe that Indy doesn't get called for enough offensive holding. I'll take your O-line coach though he must really coach them up well.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    He's a good one.  Happy to have him one more year.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    well if you didnt have him for one more year Peyton might cry and stomp his feet. Never has there been a pro in this game who hates change as much as Peyton Manning. We lose coachs all the time, thats what happens when your team is good and we roll with the punches and keep on winning. Thats how a pro handles things. But not Peyton god forbid he have to work with a new OC and a new Oline coach.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Apparently Tas you are just jealous.  None of your coaches should have left because they have proven they cannot handle the big job.  One of your great ones is severely tarnishing one of the finest football reputations in college history right here in my fine home state.  Its a shame.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         Despite the Indy win last night, there are still serious concerns about the all-important LT spot: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090821/SPORTS15/908210385/1058/SPORTS03/Kravitz++Still+vexing+questions+on+offense
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    TP and all - color me officially concerned about the LT spot. 

    Bottom line here is that:
     
    Ugoh appears to be good enough with all the tools and maybe half the heart. 
    Johnson appears to have 1/2 to 3/4 the tools and all the heart. 

    I guess the silver lining (I've had to dig a little) to all of this is that Ugoh has started the last two years and played effectively enough (if not quite worthy of his draft position).  If the coaches think that Johnson's heart makes up for what he lacks in skill and makes him as good as Ugoh, then we have to accept that. 

    In all, however, it would be better if the position was solidified and confidence demonstrated.  Unfortunately, neither is currently the case.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         Rookie Austin Collie, Indy's 4th round pick (#127 overall) out of Brigham Young, is rumored to have the inside track to the 3rd WR job: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090822/SPORTS03/908220350/1058/SPORTS03/Rookie+Collie+s+strong+preseason+helps+him+make+his+case+for+Colts++No.+3+receiver+job
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    MVP - That's a hysterical take on Howard Mudd's "retirement" that I've only heard on this forum.  Pretty absurd notion that an OL coach would nix his retirement because Peyton whinged about it.  In reality, the guy didn't want to retire yet, but NFL pention rules were forcing him to.  I assure you he's back voluntarily...
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    In Response to Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009:
    [QUOTE]TP and all - color me officially concerned about the LT spot.  Bottom line here is that:   Ugoh appears to be good enough with all the tools and maybe half the heart.  Johnson appears to have 1/2 to 3/4 the tools and all the heart.  I guess the silver lining (I've had to dig a little) to all of this is that Ugoh has started the last two years and played effectively enough (if not quite worthy of his draft position).  If the coaches think that Johnson's heart makes up for what he lacks in skill and makes him as good as Ugoh, then we have to accept that.  In all, however, it would be better if the position was solidified and confidence demonstrated.  Unfortunately, neither is currently the case.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]
     
    Ugoh is just average. ANd that`s a big drop from Tarik Glenn who was pro bowl material. Johnson is a little inexperienced; I am not sure I want him against dudes like MArio Williams. So yeah it is a concern. I see it like the Pats secondary: there are decent players present(Bodden, Springs, Meriweather, Sanders), but I have yet to see them perform well enough to inspire huge confidence. I see rookie LTs (that aren`t Glenn or Ogden) having a tough time with quick bull rushers and getting picked on. That`s just how it is in the NFL; if a team has a weakness the opposition`s job is to totally exploit that weakness whether it`s the secondary or the O Line. In both cases there is obvious room for improvement.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Hannah - Ugoh and Johnson have enough experience and will hold their own.  You are correct, however, they are not Tarik Glenn.  That was the hope at least with Ugoh. 

    I think what is really taking place now is to determine if Johnson can hold up at the position while determining if Ugoh can be better at other places on the line.  Not being a great LT does not mean you have to be bad at the other positions.  

    This is the great experiment of the year.  At the very least, it creates depth.  Ugoh as a back up LT may be the best in the league.

    Wish he were at least top 10 starting LT in the league.

     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

         The Colts have a big decision to make regarding star safety Bob Sanders. Do they place him on the PUP list, whereby he'll misss  the first 6 weeks of the season (actually...5 games, because the Colts get their bye week early this season)? Or, do they keep him on their 53 man roster, even though he's nowhere near ready to play? http://www.indystar.com/article/20090827/SPORTS03/908270451/1058/SPORTS03/Foster+shows+his+versatility
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Jules he might be back cause he wants to be back but if you are going to try and say that Peyton didnt make some noise about teh coaching changes you are just drinking the Indy coolaide. Everyone knows Peyton hates change and does not like changing his team. I agree that Mudd came back cause he wanted to but Peyton deffently didnt like what was going on.
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Tas

    Well if the coaches came back of their own volition, then what does it matter if Manning had something to say?
     
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    Re: More From Colts' Camp: OL Could Be A Problem in 2009

    Yeah, I'm a little unsure if you have any kind of point or not, Killa.
     

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