More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    Thanks Rusty but I don't need anymore proof.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    The big difference Rusty is that GB has a couple other FA's they don't want to lose (namely a pro-bowl caliber TE and a top end C) while after 08' Cassel was the only big name FA the Pats had. The Pats also had more cap room to spare and even then they took a lesser deal then they might have gotten closer to the draft just for the extra cap space.

    It was a great and ballsy move by BB but GB can't risk both Finley and Wells hitting the FA market and chewing up a ton of cap space with a franchise tagged QB.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Bill we Trust.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    The big difference Rusty is that GB has a couple other FA's they don't want to lose (namely a pro-bowl caliber TE and a top end C) while after 08' Cassel was the only big name FA the Pats had. The Pats also had more cap room to spare and even then they took a lesser deal then they might have gotten closer to the draft just for the extra cap space. It was a great and ballsy move by BB but GB can't risk both Finley and Wells hitting the FA market and chewing up a ton of cap space with a franchise tagged QB.
    Posted by PatsEng


    That's what proves that BB is the best with the salary cap.  Apparently the genius Ted Thompson doesn't have the same leverage.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    But if NE had drafted Mike Wallace and Carlos Dunlap and Clay Matthews and a Pro bowler with every pick then they would have made every SB every year instead of a pathetic 5 out of 11.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    Proof = Next year we have more cap space then most teams in the league at 20 million, with 2 1st and 2 2nd rd picks. Oh yeah and we're playing in the SB in 3 days.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    PatsEng, You're missing the point. There is no real difference.  NE was trying to sign Seymour and had to make a tough decision on him.  If you ask Tony Mazz, BB was a moron for dealing Seymour, when in reality, Julius Pepper's situation was settting Serymour's market.  A 1st rd pick? Thanks very much! Carolina stupidly wanted 2 1sts, and look at them now. That's what is moronic. Finley has Thompson by the balls. It's not just the compensation in a trade, but what the player's value is. It's why BB couldnt' deal Mankins.  I am not comparing Finley's value to Seymour's, but with NE tagging Cassel, this meant BB had no leverage, so he was either in on a deal with Pioli with confident to do that, or he was taking a major risk not knowing of the market for a situation like that. Again, no one has ever tagged a back up QB before in the NFL. Even if NE had a ton of cap room like you claim (which is not true due to Brady's, Wilfork and Mankins's deals pending), it's still a ballsy move he pulled off. GB won't even roll the dice here, #1 because they aren't in as good  shape as the media heads claimed, calling them "set up for years to come and a possible dynasty" and because they know they'd have no leverage in a deal anyway. As if NE didn't have FAs they didn't want to lose in Seymour in 2009 or Vrabel? They had to make a decision.  This is the point.  We turned over a QB we had no intention of keeping for Pat Chung, the latter a guy who may be a SS here for the next 8 years. No GMs really are this creative, and this is more proof of that.  This is another classic case of BB being a trailblazer in the cap era as GM. Somewhere, ol Babe Parilli cringes. lol
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Rusty Wilforks, Mankins, and Brady's deals didn't come until 10', Cassel's 1 year tag was in 09' so it had no barring on the deal.

    Seymour being traded was a great move by BB knowing that he couldn't sign both him and Wilfork but it was made prior to the season. Trading Flynn at the beginning of the season would have been moronic.

    BB made some gutsy moves and it paid off

    GB's situation is completely different in this case

    It's just a bad comparison
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    Right, so to deal Seymour and a small piece in Vrabel, it puts into a position to give out 3 MASSIVE CONTRACTS. And by tagging Cassel, you risk all teams saying "let him eat his 16 million so he can't pay Brady, Wiflork and Mankins. Don't you get this?  BB had no leverage once he tagged Cassel. This is the fear of Ted Thomspon right now. It's not a bad comparison whatsoever. It's almost the same thing. Flynn clearly looks very good and was a 7th rd pick, just like Cassel. If Thompson makes a mistake here, it throws his formula compeltely off. His planning ahead right now to sign all his superstars.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    I agree with you, but I think he might have had a little more leverage because at the time there were still rumors about TB's health for the coming season.  Also Cassel was more of a proven commodity than Flynn having started for a whole year.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era : That's what proves that BB is the best with the salary cap.  Apparently the genius Ted Thompson doesn't have the same leverage.
    Posted by DoNotSleepOnThePats


    It doesn't prove much as after the 07' season BB had a lot of Vets and JAGs leaving (over 15 players left that year I believe). He had a lot of money coming off the books after the 08' season anyways so the money was there. There is zero chance BB planned for Brady to get injured have Cassel perform and then get value for a trade for him. If he did that would be the most amazing thing ever but I doubt he planned it that way, it just happened to fall that way. There was a little luck involved that Brady was injured in a year where no major FA's contracts were up, he had a lot of the older vet money coming off the books from 07' and 08' and there was a willing buyer already set up in KC.

    Now that said BB is a great cap manager but there are times where he's to reluctant to give a little more money (Branch, Goldson, Roth, heck you can even say Mankins wouldn't have cost as much if he signed him 1 year sooner)
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    Right, so to deal Seymour and a small piece in Vrabel, it puts into a position to give out 3 MASSIVE CONTRACTS. When Seymour was dealt, I wasn't shocked at all. I was happy they got a 1st rd pick for him because I knew he'd be in that Pepper's range which is why Carolina didn't get jack squat for him due to their outlandish (two 1st rd pick demands). And by tagging Cassel, you risk all teams saying "let him eat his 16 million so he can't pay Brady, Wiflork and Mankins. Don't you get this?  BB had no leverage once he tagged Cassel. This is the point and why Thompson won't risk it. This is the fear of Ted Thomspon right now. It's not a bad comparison whatsoever. It's almost the same thing. Flynn clearly looks very good and was a 7th rd pick, just like Cassel. If Thompson makes a mistake here, it throws his formula compeletely off. His planning ahead right now to sign all his superstars.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Rusty again Brady's, Wilfork's and Mankin's contract weren't up until after the 09' season. Cassel tag would have been for the 09' season so it would not have affected whether they could resign any of the 3 or not
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    Proof = Next year we have more cap space then most teams in the league at 20 million, with 2 1st and 2 2nd rd picks. Oh yeah and we're playing in the SB in 3 days.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    This is better proof, thanks True
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    Dude, there was a lockout after 2010. I think you're not giving him enough credit for planning this thing out. Seriously. BB had no idea what the new CBA would look like. I am sure he knew what Kraft wanted, what the owners, wanted, but there were no guarantees, so this made planning for all these deals REALLY tough. Why do you think it took so long to get them signed? Brady, Wilfork, Mankins, Mayo, etc, are pretty much all the highest paid at their positions in the league, but all Tony Mazz and Gasper told us is that "Kraft and BB are cheap". No, they just weren't morons. It's about how you structure the deals. That's the issue. BB did clear out as much room as possible, but it took balls to tag Cassel. That's the whole point!
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Wilfork and Brady were signed in 10' before the lockout. Mankins was signed after the lockout. Trading Seymour had an affect on this happening but Cassel's tag in 09' had no affect since they signed after the 09' season not that hard to understand Rusty.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    In Response to Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era : "It's better"? I posted a thread about what True posted like 3 weeks ago. Pitt is also 22 million over the cap. Oh my.  Why play contrarian when the point holds?  Ted Thompson doesn't have the balls to use a chip. End of story.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Congrats I didn't see it otherwise I would have said that was right too.

    Rusty I'm saying that it's a bad comparison not that BB isn't a great cap manager. GM we can have a debate about but cap manager he is one of the best. Although I think he needs to spend the extra mil or two sometimes to get slightly better players
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    This is also proof that Bill O'Brien is the best offensive coordinator of the cap era.
     
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    Re: More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era

    In Response to More Proof BB = Best GM of Cap Era:
    GB will not tag QB, Matt Flynn.  Just makes one appreciate BB having the stones to tag Cassel at 16 million, with no leverage whatsoever, to turn over a high 2nd rd pick. NE takes a 7th rd pick in 2005 and gets Pat Chung in the 2009 draft. GB develops Matt Flynn, also a 7th rd pick, and gets absoutely nothing for a very attractive trade chip (arguably more so than Cassel), simply because they're over-budget, needing to sign Jermichael Finley and impressive Center, Scott Wells. Everyone mocked BB for doing what he was doing, not getting enough supposedly for Cassel with absolutely ZERO leverage, and then he dealt Seymour as the start of his masterful rebuilding plan. Absolute genius. BBAO: Matt Flynn and Packers cap space February, 2, 2012 Feb 2 8:30 AM ET Email Print Comments 527 By Kevin Seifert We're Black and Blue All Over: Tom Silverstein of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel provides the hard numbers that will make it so difficult for the Green Bay Packers to use their franchise tag on quarterback Matt Flynn, with the purposes of trading him, rather than simply allowing him to leave via free agency. The basics: The Packers have about $113.3 million already allocated for a 2012 cap expected to remain around $120 million. That means they have around $7 million in wiggle room. But using their tag on Flynn would require a $14 million commitment, requiring them to clear at least another $7 million -- and that's if they don't do any other contracts all offseason. Tight end Jermichael Finley and center Scott Wells, among others, are pending free agents. The Packers probably want to keep both, but it would be tough to squeeze in the 2012 cap numbers of their presumptive new contracts while also leaving Flynn's $14 million on the books even in a temporary situation. A more likely scenario would be to let Flynn depart and use the remaining space on a deal for Wells, and perhaps a much-cheaper franchise tag on Finley. Teams can do any single move they want in the cap era if they're willing to sacrifice in other areas. In this case, would it be worth it to get an extra draft pick or two for Flynn if it means losing Finley and/or Wells in the process? I'm guessing no.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Ah Rusty, don't let those nasty Facts get in the way of another of your rants.  I love how it's an article from a beat writer saying how "it will be hard" for GB to franchise Flynn yet your post starts GB WILL NOT franchise Flynn.  That way you can start right in on your rant of how NE could do something GB cannot.

    Of course lets ignore the fact GB could ask players to restructure contracts, trade other players, cut someone, umm you know those GM moves teams make in the off-season to make cap room. (the same thing NE did to have the cap space to franchise Cassel).  But you already have seen the future so no need to wait and see....
     
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