More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]Jbolt how in the hell does where Warner worked before he played pro ball relivent what so ever to this conversation? It validates the point that Warner got a later start - due to not having a chance based on 'who ya know'- like Peyton. If you don't see that, your off base TAZ
    What does any of what you had to say play into this conversation? Again, Warner is a downfield passer, more yards attempted per throw. Peyton is a dump off specialist. I get it you dont like Manning, I doubt you hate him more then I do d double doubt it but coming up with retarded ways to justify why you think Warner is better is dumb. If you had just said Manning crummbles under presure and Warner does not then I would have no issue but talking about where warner worked and how everything has been given to manning has nothing to do with the facts.The fact is Warner's style of play, with both Stl & Az, is more Bradyesque. Meaning he goes downfield while Peyton lives off the short game. If you dont see that you're not as observant as once thought[/Quote]

    I despise the Manning clan, MUCH more than you.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    While I can understand disliking Eli or Peyton as an opposing player and Archie as a meddling douchebag . . .

    Despise?

    That's a little harsh, don't you think?

    And the whole clan?

    What did Cooper ever do to you guys?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    UD - got to take the good with the bad. Consider this site has many more non Pats fans who post here with stuff that diminishes the team and its players than Pats fans who post stuff to diminish other teams and their players. Remember, TP was simply bringing up SOMEONE else's opinion in an article.. not his doing.
    PS - the pissing match between the two of you is amusing, to say the least!!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]Manning and Warner have generally played in systems that are kissing cousins. Sure the Colts use the old Ted Marchibroda 4 play calling, but otherwise they are like the Rams and Cards, who all run offensive systems derived from the Air Coryell vein.

    Deep timing and short timing. They stretch the defense vertically and run after. Both teams use modern variants that supplant some power running for short swing passes, and splitting the RB out.

    West coast offense is horizontal and spreads it out across the field. Two seperate systems but both rely on timing. Just like in college QB's who post the most prolific numbers tend to come from these systems. Calling out Warner or Manning is calling out the other.

    Warner does throw a much prettier ball, and reacts better to the blitz. I would say Manning has slightly better footwork. But they are very similar from similar systems. I think the difference between total accumulation between the two comes down to Manning being on one team without the wierd hiatus that Warner took, which allowed him to pile up some numbers that Warner could have had if St. Louis didn't go with a youth movement. And in the playoffs, Warner is better because he is better against a blitz.

    All in all, the way to get to Warner is to knock his team out of its timing. The way to get to Manning is to put a guy in his face, and to disguise the blitz because that is where the K-gun always falls apart, when it's presnap reads are faulty.[/Quote]

    Z - I would agree that the systems in which Warner has played well (STL and AZ) seem to be similar to the one in which manning plays.

    I think Warner throws one of the best balls in Football and he seems very accurate downfield. Manning throws an inconsistent ball. Sometimes it is nice sometimes its a duck. Regardless it generally gets to the target.

    I am surprised to hear you mention manning's footwork. Although it has gotten much better since his early years, he still seems to have happy feet in the pocket.

    As for Warner's team moves, I think most of the confidence in him around the league went way down after his thumb injury. Actually coming back as he has after such an injury I think deserve a lot of accolades. Short of not being able to walk, I am not sure there is much worse for a QB.

    Finally, the blitz, I would agree that manning does not always perform well against the blitz. Some of this i attribute to 1) his expectation that the blocking scheme will pick it up 2) he may have the worst movement in the pocket of any of the top tier quarterbacks. He just cannot get away from a pass rush
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from emilycuba33. Show emilycuba33's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]Bub your first question was who would I rather have in a championship game? meaning that we are skipping the playoffs and Manning is already in the championship if thats teh case i go with Manning. Manning has a hard time getting to teh big game but once he is there he did well. Warner is great im not saying he is not but Manning has been the 2nd best QB for years and just because everyone is on the Kurt Warner bandwagon now does not change the fact that Manni8ng has been one of the best players in the NFL for 10 years. If the question was who would i trust to get me through the playoffs and into teh super bowl I would go with Warner in the playoffs but if we are talking just teh championship game then i go with Manning cause he is teh better QB.[/Quote] Peyton only got there one time!!!!! Would us NE fans be happy making the playoffs each year but coming up short 99% of the time. I don't think so!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    AGC -

    I have no issue with dissenting views, in fact, its at least half the reason for being here. I could sit on an indy site all day, make comments just to have others agree with me. that doesn't do it for me. I'd rather hash out contrasting views. That said, fandom (irrationality) frequently gets in the way. but that's ok.

    As for toilet paper - isn't that his way? For someone who loves squash the pundits for anything anti-pat that is written or said, he certainly loves to use them to discredit anyone else.

    He is allowed. that is his fandom. I just don't care for the masquerade that he is something more rational than a fan. And he has a problem accepting other points of view.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from patswirelessfan. Show patswirelessfan's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Ok,

    sticking with the original topic:
    1. Manning is not over-rated
    2. If I had to pick between Warner or Manning - I take Manning.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]ah - another manning thread started by none other than our friend toilet paper. check the thread see it tp ever concedes a point. never. talk about a complex.

    at any rate its an opinion poll and what I think of manning does not matter. I simply will point out that he has 3 mvps, 1 sb mvp, and his career stats are near the top. at the very least that puts him in the top 10. of course tp would see it differently.

    but the point i have to refute here is jbolts about the colts passing scheme. not sure where you got the underneath route stuff, but I supply the following links for digestion.

    UD, thanks for proving my point,Warner is 4th on the list Manning is 12th, case closed.
    Manning is 4th among active qbs in yds per attempt.
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_per_att_career.htm

    yes behind warner (which is not the point), but it begs the question where does the theory of the colts employng underneath routes come from especially considering that we frequently see colts receivers go down after catches to avoid hits.

    as for warner, here's something else to chew on. this notes that the cards and steelers are top two teams with yards after catch. In other words, short passes padded by yac which pads yds/attempt
    http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e3e682&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

    the colts have never employed a west coast offense. In fact, they have generally been known as a more vertical team. jbolt, I just am curious where your opinion came from.[/Quote]
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    "It also leads people to believe that long passes and medium passes are somehow more difficult throws to make than short passes, and it is more frequently the opposite.

    Most medium length passes are the easiest to make, and long passes require just as much from the receiver as the QB."

    Please explain. Especially since Cassel was ragged on by everyone on this board for throwing too many short passes the first half of this season.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]Manning and Warner have generally played in systems that are kissing cousins. Sure the Colts use the old Ted Marchibroda 4 play calling, but otherwise they are like the Rams and Cards, who all run offensive systems derived from the Air Coryell vein.

    Deep timing and short timing. They stretch the defense vertically and run after. Both teams use modern variants that supplant some power running for short swing passes, and splitting the RB out.

    West coast offense is horizontal and spreads it out across the field. Two seperate systems but both rely on timing. Just like in college QB's who post the most prolific numbers tend to come from these systems. Calling out Warner or Manning is calling out the other.

    Warner does throw a much prettier ball, and reacts better to the blitz. I would say Manning has slightly better footwork. But they are very similar from similar systems. I think the difference between total accumulation between the two comes down to Manning being on one team without the wierd hiatus that Warner took, which allowed him to pile up some numbers that Warner could have had if St. Louis didn't go with a youth movement. And in the playoffs, Warner is better because he is better against a blitz.

    All in all, the way to get to Warner is to knock his team out of its timing. The way to get to Manning is to put a guy in his face, and to disguise the blitz because that is where the K-gun always falls apart, when it's presnap reads are faulty.[/Quote]

    Z- Have to disagree with you and UD. Ted Marchibroda is a George Allen disciple. Martz of StL 'XYZ' passing route system is from Don Coryell, via Sid Gilman. AZ OC Todd Haley has opened up the play book to fit this style as well. Marchibroda's system and Coryell's are way different,sorry.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote][/Quote]

    Jbolt - not necessarily disagreeing with your point just that you assume that the colts employ an "underneath route" system.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]

    Z- Have to disagree with you and UD. Ted Marchibroda is a George Allen disciple. Martz of StL 'XYZ' passing route system is from Don Coryell, via Sid Gilman. AZ OC Todd Haley has opened up the play book to fit this style as well. Marchibroda's system and Coryell's are way different,sorry.[/Quote]

    Not so sure about offensive systems. What I am pretty sure about, however, is that Tom Moore never coached with Marchibroda. His initial entry into the NFL was through the Noll steelers where he spent 10+ years. So I am not sure you can tag him to either of these guys.

    At any rate my point was I think it is incorrect to suggest the colts employ an underneath passing system.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote][/Quote]

    TP - I don't have to convince anyone of anything. I say what I want and let them decide. You just don't like me because you don't like my opinion of you which I have made public. Get over it.

    I never said you said you like to squash pundits. I said that. You demonstrate it in your posts, except when you like to use them to make a point which makes you hypocritical.

    Thank you for calling me your majesty. I agree.

    Expose away - I am shaking in my boots.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote][/Quote]

    Sad sad toilet paper. Please don't generalize things, I really don't agitate others too much. Just you. And you know why.

    I have no problem with others' opinions but I do assume to see some give and take in the discussions which is foreign to you.

    whoops there you go blaming the media who you then like to use when it favors you. exactly the hypocrisy I am talking about. Thank you for doing it again.

    LOL!!! (remind you of anyone)
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote][/Quote]

    Tickles Peyton,

    I am not sure you know what whining is. To remind you, go back to thread you started about the steelers being lucky the pats weren't in the playoffs. That is whining.

    I also don't think you know what lying is, but you do know how to try attach things to me which are not true.

    As for credibility, your interest in my credibility does not matter to me.

    LOL!!! (who am I???) LOL!!!
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    "An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition."

    "No it isn't."

    "Yes it is."
    "It isn't just contradiction."

    "Look, if I argue with you, I have to take up a contrrary position."
    'Yes, but it isn't just saying 'No, it isn't.'"
    "Yes it is."
    "No, it isn't."
    "Yes, it is."
    "No, it isn't. An argument is an intellectual process. Contradiciton is just the automantic gainsaying of anything the other person says."
    'No, it isn't."



    yawn

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    I've never been a fan of Peyton, but from a pure gut level reaction, I get more of a pit in my stomach watching him face my team than watching Warner.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote][/Quote]

    Now you've done it. You've exposed your stubborness and stupidity.

    1) how can you can't define an opinion as fact. That's stupidity.
    2) You are unwilling to accept your opinion as a whine which is exactly what it was. That's stubborn and stupid.
    3) My claim that I say you like to "squash pundits" is my opinion and was related to the words you used about me. As I said before (read this slowly for comprehension) I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SAID YOU LIKED TO SQUASH PUNDITS. I SAID THAT. I CLAIM IT. ITS MY OPINION. NOT YOUR STATEMENT. That is not a lie. That you don't get this is and that I have had to explain it again is plain stupid. You need remedial schooling. I promise you that they teach these kinds of things in jr high or high school. Good luck.

    I'll attempt to give you the last word on this because I am tired of this, you've become boringand predictable and have absolutely zero arguementative skill. Here's your opportunity to make fun of me without retribution. I suggest you take full advantage of it. good luck.
     
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