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More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Umie79. Show Umie79's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Troy Aikman needs to be on any top 10 list.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Pretty entertaining thread guys! Things got more interesting around here once the administrators stopped deleting all coherent threads from opposing team fans. Now idiot and genius alike can post! Here's my take:

    We'll never have sufficient evidence to compare Manning and Brady directly. Pat fans have, of course, taken the position that since SB rings are the only important thing in football, Brady must be considered the better QB. (Understandably, they've taken the position that would favor their QB.) Colt fans have, of course, looked to statistics and pointed out that (with the exeption of last year) Peyton has statistically outperformed Brady every single year of their respective careers and has three MVPs to Brady's one. (Once again, this is understandably the position that favors their QB.)
    I would also add that the two QBs have had vastly different expectations over the years. Peyton has largely had mediocre defenses over the years and is asked to put up huge numbers on offense to compensate. There haven't been a lot of drives where he can afford to throw the ball away and try again next series. Instead, he's had to force the ball in there and make something happen. And he's veen VERY good at that.

    By contrast, Brady usually had a very good defense and was more often asked to avoid mistakes. He seldomly had to make something happen. He was also never given the supporting cast that Manning was, and had to make do with fewer weapons. Brady has been VERY good at what he was asked to do. Plus, when he finally was asked to put up big numbers and given weapons to do so last year, he delivered in a big way.

    They are both great QBs and deserve to be in the HoF. The Colt fan in me believes that if people weren't mis-classifying Super Bowl victories as an individual statistic (rather than a team stat), no one would make the arguement that Brady is even half the QB as Peyton...but who cares, they're both great.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from steelerjim58. Show steelerjim58's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]. Manning's stats are padded due to the 'underneath' passing game the Colts employ. You are way off base. And, as Tex has pointed out, Warner's stats are better in every category when it counts most. Warner is way better than Manning.[/Quote]
    But of course, brady's stats aren't "padded" by the dink & dunk fest that is the patriots offense??????
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    He seldomly had to make something happen.

    Ok the only way to settle that is to look up how many 4th quarter comebacks Brady and Manning each led. Somebody look it up, I'm too lazy.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Once again, a Colts fan trying to spin this his way. Nobody is arguing that Manning is awful. But facts are facts. So Manning has put up better numbers than Brady in the regular season? That's all nice and fine. Only an idiod would notadmit Manning has had much superior weapons than Brady...until 2007. Then, once Brady had as good a supporting cast on offense he totally blew the doors off Peyton! Now if we look solely at the postseason there is a HUGE gap. Brady is 14-3 in postseason play, Manning is 7-8. I don't have the actual stats andy, but Tom's numbers for TDs, INTs, and passer rating is superior to Manning's. So while Peyton can manage to squeeze by teams like the Texans (actually last season it was Rosenfels who handed him the game), Tom Brady has managed to step up his game against stiffer competition. Only against the Chargers are Tom's numbers "down" (and I guess the Broncos, too), but still the Patriots have managed to overcome this in January against SD. I think that even were Manning to have the Steelers defense, still he would underperform in the playoffs. Both these guys will have busts in Canton eventually. But if the objective in the league is to win championships (and not pile up regular season stats), then Brady is by far the better of the two. Your efforts to defend your QB are noble, but simply not reasonable!
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from steelerjim58. Show steelerjim58's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]

    Jimbo:

    Are you talking about the same offense that Tom has repeatedly used to shred the vaunted Steelers' defense over the years?[/Quote]
    Gee, why so defensive? I'm not saying it's not effective, boring as hell, but effective. I was just responding to the post. I'm guessing that brady would be in the top 2-3 in yac yards this decade. Agree or disagree?
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    All - I am no longer generally arguing manning points. There may be a little here and there, but I said long ago and stand by my assertion that Manning is not to be blamed for the last 2 playoff losses. If you want to go back to before then, then it has to be the 05 season and before as the colts won the sb in the 06 season.

    However, these back and forths with Texas Pat are more to show his inability to argue a point, to show his ability to flip flop and backtrack, to demonstrate that he will edit to attempt to better make his point (even as he fails at doing it).
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    " They start by taking credit for everything that goes right, and then end by dismissing everything that goes wrong. "


    Thatnks for nutshelling that for us, Z.

    You can tailor stats to support any crazy point it strikes your fancy to make.

    Watch them play.

    There is no debate.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    I said long ago and stand by my assertion that
    Manning is not to be blamed for the last 2
    playoff losses.


    I suppose in the 07 playoffs Manning did not
    bear the total blame, though he did throw 2 INTs.
    The Chargers (led by backup Billy Volek)
    torched the Colts defense, and Peyton did have
    a decent game. But how can you not blame this
    last loss on him? With a lead and under three
    minutes left in the game, he failed to make two
    yards for a first down which would have iced
    the game. Though he wasn't statistically as
    bad as he's been historically in the playoffs,
    he failed to come through in the clutch. Also,
    he only managed to put up 17 points against
    a Chargers defense which was awful against
    the pass. And even in 06 he only really played
    one half of good football in the playoffs...against
    the backups of the Patriots in the AFCCG.
    His games against both the Chiefs and Ravens
    were terrible. If you want to believe the Colts
    defense let them down so much in the past,
    you'd have to give them the credit for the one
    Lombardi they did win! But the facts are there.
    Nine trips to the playoffs, six "one-and-done's",
    two second round exits, and one SB win. And
    though Peyton gor the MVP for that game, Rex
    Grossman did more for the colts in Miami than
    Manning did. Addai and Rhodes should have
    split that MVP, IMO.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Will-Redd. Show Will-Redd's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Manning's stats are meaningless to me. The Colts are on TV all the time and, it doesn't matter who their opponent is, the ref's keep giving him play after play. Peyton Manning without the Michael Jordan rules would not have very memorable numbers.

    Thank goodness there is a thread now where we can talk about Tom and Giselle.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    z
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]
    Need still more proof that Peyton Manning is overrated?
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26463-peyton-manning-overrated-or-underrated
    [/Quote]

    There you go defining opinion as fact. Didn't you learn anything in school?

    First rating a QB is opinion to begin with. While some opinions may have been proved wrong (the world is flat), there is no such ability in this discussion.

    First TP (i'll try to be decent), upon what opinion, specifically, are you basing you basing your arguement. Who specifically has stated that manning is "rated" higher than YOU think he should be.

    I am taking your perspective as if it is conventional wisdom that Manning is the best QB ever, or something of the sort. Is this correct?

    Is it his 3 regular season MVP's? His multiple commercials? The accolades he receives from the media, coaches and players? Where specifically are you drawing your opinion that other rate manning at a level beyond where you believe he should be?

    Once we get to the bottom of this then I think we have a basis for discussion. Don't you?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    . . . and several butcher's aprons.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    [Quote]I said long ago and stand by my assertion that
    Manning is not to be blamed for the last 2
    playoff losses.


    I suppose in the 07 playoffs Manning did not
    bear the total blame, though he did throw 2 INTs.
    The Chargers (led by backup Billy Volek)
    torched the Colts defense, and Peyton did have
    a decent game. But how can you not blame this
    last loss on him? With a lead and under three
    minutes left in the game, he failed to make two
    yards for a first down which would have iced
    the game. Though he wasn't statistically as
    bad as he's been historically in the playoffs,
    he failed to come through in the clutch. Also,
    he only managed to put up 17 points against
    a Chargers defense which was awful against
    the pass. And even in 06 he only really played
    one half of good football in the playoffs...against
    the backups of the Patriots in the AFCCG.
    His games against both the Chiefs and Ravens
    were terrible. If you want to believe the Colts
    defense let them down so much in the past,
    you'd have to give them the credit for the one
    Lombardi they did win! But the facts are there.
    Nine trips to the playoffs, six "one-and-done's",
    two second round exits, and one SB win. And
    though Peyton gor the MVP for that game, Rex
    Grossman did more for the colts in Miami than
    Manning did. Addai and Rhodes should have
    split that MVP, IMO.[/Quote]

    Good points bub and I will be happy to answer them. You may not agree with my perspective, and I understand that but this is how I see it.

    07 - Manning's first pick was at the end of the first half less than 30 seconds to go. Manning threw deep - 20+ yds. The pass was high but catchable and off of both of wayne's hands. It was intercepted on the SD 10. Half over.

    2nd int was at the SD 5. colts about to score. Screen pass to Kenton keith right at his face mask. Ball off both hands and falls into the SD player's hands.

    If an NFL receiver can put both hands on a ball, it should be caught. The keith INT was inexcusable.

    In this year's game, the 3rd and 2 was both a missed block and a coverage sack. Here is the link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BinopmNh5uk

    Watch at 2:18 of the video. Manning's receiver is covered, the block is missed and the blitzer gets to manning unabated. Seriously, this is one game where I actually believe the colts were beaten. The colts field position was ridiculous.

    Just the way I see it.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    More Proof That Peyton Is Overrated

    Underdogg,

    Glad to see your more respectful tone. You don't have to call people names to have a good discussion. Keep it up.

    I don't know why you're reverting to explaining away individual plays, as if the mistakes of other players in those plays are the reason the Colts lost. We all know how many random goofs happen in every game. A good QB is able to overcome them.

    By your logic, Brady isn't responsible for the 2006 loss in the AFCCG because Caldwell should have caught that pass for a TD but dropped it. But Brady should have been able to overcome that, especially since he had earlier had the ball late in the 2nd quarter with a 21-3 lead. But he failed. See, Brady isn't perfect either, and we don't have to blame other people for this play or that to see it.
     
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