Moss and the offseason

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

     As much as you guys might or might not like Moss, he's an upgrade to Tate.
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    I could not disagree more.  Tate, taking everything into consideration including youth, team-first attitude, salary, hustle-on-every-play motor, and long-term potential, has more overall upside than Moss.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninpa420. Show patsfaninpa420's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
     As much as you guys might or might not like Moss, he's an upgrade to Tate. Posted by murghkhor
    I could not disagree more.  Tate, taking everything into consideration including youth, team-first attitude, salary, hustle-on-every-play motor, and long-term potential, has more overall upside than Moss.
    Posted by dustcover



    Thats funny cause I was gonna say pretty much the same thing. Also Tate doesn't go into fits of rage over a buffet.
 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from tenacioust. Show tenacioust's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Give it up Chris Carter!
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ReeGzUSMC. Show ReeGzUSMC's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Let it GO!!!
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Moss is history and the Pats certainly do not need him as the offense is running on all cylinders. Why in the world would we want to screw that up?

    Go Pats!
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Jerry Jones will sign moss. Just think of the possibilities. Roy Williams, Dez Bryant, Randy Moss and Jon Kitna. *Kitna actually a very servicable back up*
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    The problem with Moss at this stage in his career is he still expects to be the number one option, but he's really a number three option.  Tate plays the number three guy well.  Moss seems to lose focus when he's a number three.  


     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Moss catches balls that are barely catchable. Tate drops balls that hit him inbetween the numbers. We'll compare that for starters.

    How many drops has Tate had this season?

     
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    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Problem with Moss is not his age or his ability to play. IMO his problem is his state of mind. I think he is going through sort of an athlete’s midlife crises. He is in a panic mode.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
    Moss catches balls that are barely catchable. Tate drops balls that hit him inbetween the numbers. We'll compare that for starters. How many drops has Tate had this season?
    Posted by murghkhor


    Moss makes great catches, but he also has had a lot of drops too--and in some cases his lack of focus and/or effort has led to interceptions. I think the inconsistency was hurting us because Brady was throwing to Moss expecting great things but too often getting poor results.  With Tate, Brady knows what to expect, and so he throws to him only when other options aren't available.  The major difference between Branch and Moss right now is that Branch is reliable and consistent, while Moss increasingly had become unreliable and inconsistent.   


     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Hoier. Show Hoier's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    He will be great with the Jets
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason : Moss makes great catches, but he also has had a lot of drops too--and in some cases his lack of focus and/or effort has led to interceptions. I think the inconsistency was hurting us because Brady was throwing to Moss expecting great things but too often getting poor results.  With Tate, Brady knows what to expect, and so he throws to him only when other options aren't available.  The major difference between Branch and Moss right now is that Branch is reliable and consistent, while Moss increasingly had become unreliable and inconsistent.   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    Moss would be replacing Tate in the system, not Branch. Tate is the one that's mostly going downfield at the moment.

    I just don't see any other team signing Moss but the Patriots, seriously. Already 31 teams passed on Moss on the waiver and his $3m remaining on his contract. Terrel Owens signed with the Bengals this year for only $2m (and $2m in incentives) and no other team wanted him. I think Moss could await a worse fate than Owens since atleast Owens didn't have motivational issues.

    I think Moss could very well be worth a $2m contract with incentives (remember we signed him for only $3m with incentives in 2007). Not only that but Moss could very well wanted to only come to NE and no other team. That's what happenend in 2008 when he hit the FA but all teams basically knew he was re-signing with NE and did a $9m per year 3yr deal in the end.

    I think Moss would want to come to NE at any price and I think NE would be happy to have him at a low-ball number, incentive heavy, with 1 yr deal so that it's easy to release him if they want to.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    I don't think Randy Moss has the mindsight to be a role player, that's why he's no longer here.  He's shown earlier this yr that he wasn't happy being a decoy and he doesn't run all the routes like Branch does.  Chucking the ball deep for Moss worked beautifully in 2007 but it just wasn't happening anymore.  Instead of him going up over 2 defenders to make great catches, this yr they would either be incomplete or intercepted off a deflection.

    Do you really think Moss would be happy if he assumed Tate's current role in the Offense??
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason : Moss would be replacing Tate in the system, not Branch. Tate is the one that's mostly going downfield at the moment. I just don't see any other team signing Moss but the Patriots, seriously. Already 31 teams passed on Moss on the waiver and his $3m remaining on his contract. Terrel Owens signed with the Bengals this year for only $2m (and $2m in incentives) and no other team wanted him. I think Moss could await a worse fate than Owens since atleast Owens didn't have motivational issues. I think Moss could very well be worth a $2m contract with incentives (remember we signed him for only $3m with incentives in 2007). Not only that but Moss could very well wanted to only come to NE and no other team. That's what happenend in 2008 when he hit the FA but all teams basically knew he was re-signing with NE and did a $9m per year 3yr deal in the end. I think Moss would want to come to NE at any price and I think NE would be happy to have him at a low-ball number, incentive heavy, with 1 yr deal so that it's easy to release him if they want to.
    Posted by murghkhor

    I think the question is whether Moss would be happy in a role like Tate's, which is really a complementary role, not a starring role.  I think BB wanted him in the Tate role this season, but Moss didn't want that role and that's why he asked to be traded.  Would he want it now?  And could he really be effective being a third or fourth option on most plays?  I don't know.  I like Moss--if he could be a complementary guy, he'd be great for the team.  But honestly, I don't think his head is in the right place for him to run play after play making it look like he's the first option when he's really the third or fourth option.  Plus, the dynamic between him and Brady wasn't good, because Brady kept trying to get the ball to Moss in situations when Moss was no longer all that reliable.  There were a lot of dropped passes, incompletions, and even interceptions that occurred early in the season because Moss either didn't have his head in the game or wasn't really able to make the spectacular plays he used to make.  I just think Moss--for all his skills--may be at a stage in his career where he's more a temptation and a tease than a really great player.  Tate, at least, has some upside.  Moss--if he continues to think of himself as a star--only is going to disappoint.  That's why I don't see him coming back.  I think Moss is the past and BB right now wants this team to focus on the future.  If Tate turns out not to be the deep threat we need (and he may not), I think BB we'll look for someone else young and new and not reach back for Moss.  If he does bring a veteran in, he's going to bring one who will be comfortable being a complementary guy and not someone who will expect to be the number one option on every play.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Moss never would have gone after the ball Tate caught v the Bears along the sideline stretching out like that.

    I thought before about Moss, Welker and Branch together after Branch came on board. The fear you have to have is Brady forcing the long ball as he did the first game versus the Jets.

    As it is now, we have smaller, faster, great route running WR (including Tate) who can get by coverage to get open or for YAC even in coverage. Plus they all block downfield.

    Moss was one dimensional: Although he did more blocking w the Pats than anywhere else, he only did it when he wanted to.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    So you guys are saying the Pats would say No to Moss even if Moss is willing to sign a $1m contract with $2-3m in incentives and escalators and a 1 yr deal and be on a short leash?

    I find it hard to believe the NE front office will pass that up.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from sbruce9. Show sbruce9's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
    Moss never would have gone after the ball Tate caught v the Bears along the sideline stretching out like that. I thought before about Moss, Welker and Branch together after Branch came on board. The fear you have to have is Brady forcing the long ball as he did the first game versus the Jets. As it is now, we have smaller, faster, great route running WR (including Tate) who can get by coverage to get open or for YAC even in coverage. Plus they all block downfield. Moss was one dimensional: Although he did more blocking w the Pats than anywhere else, he only did it when he wanted to.
    Posted by Patriots1970


    The blocking skills Moss displayed downfield and on running plays aren't missed.  When the trade first happened we all heard, "Now the Patriots won't be able to stretch the field."  Well, with an extra TE in there and/or having a WR that is committed to blocking on all plays has increased our offensive efficiency.  Our running game has improved markedly since he was traded and has given us back the play action threat.  In summary, our offense is much improved and more dynamic. 
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
    So you guys are saying the Pats would say No to Moss even if Moss is willing to sign a $1m contract with $2-3m in incentives and escalators and a 1 yr deal and be on a short leash? I find it hard to believe the NE front office will pass that up.
    Posted by murghkhor


    The question is really not about money, it's about whether the team feels Moss is still a useful cog in the machine.  My sense is that BB likes Moss for what he can do (as do I), but really doesn't think what Moss does is the right thing for the team at this time.  That's why I doubt Moss will be back even if the value is right.  Don't get me wrong--I love Moss and think it would be great to take him back if he did fit in--but I just think BB has moved on and is trying to do something different with the team where a guy like Moss, who plays best when he knows he's the number one option, just isn't going to fit in. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from pauldeba. Show pauldeba's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    Moss' "bad behavior" with the Pats was griping at a charity dinner and complaining that the Patriots didn't want him back.  Both are forgiveable.  Taking 2 guys to cover him on every play is worth it, even if we don't throw to him.  He simply can not play anywhere else any more.  It's the Pats or the dust bin.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PerryM. Show PerryM's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    I'm as confused as anyone on Moss, was happy when we got him, was mad we traded him and later liked it. Thought after Minny let him go we would get him back and welcomed the idea that he may come back humbled and be team first. I do Like Moss and what he's done  but did not like the way Brady was forcing the ball to him compared to the way he is spreading it around now.

    So with all that said, If Moss was to come back, salary freindly and wanting a ring. To be a role player only, such as 3rd downs and red zone,  I would again welcome him back. But not as the go to every play guy again. doubt it could happen, But this BB and the Patriots.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason : The blocking skills Moss displayed downfield and on running plays aren't missed.  When the trade first happened we all heard, "Now the Patriots won't be able to stretch the field."  Well, with an extra TE in there and/or having a WR that is committed to blocking on all plays has increased our offensive efficiency.  Our running game has improved markedly since he was traded and has given us back the play action threat.  In summary, our offense is much improved and more dynamic. 
    Posted by sbruce9



    I think we stretch the field in a different manner now. Moss used to stretch it vertically towards the endzone, now with the multiple TE sets and the defense not knowing where the ball was coming from they are stretched from sideline to sideline.  In the end it is just as effective. However it would not work if we were to reintroduce a true #1 option into this offense.
     
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    Re: Moss and the offseason

    if we were to win a superbowl moss would probably get a ring if he had the guts to accept it.
     
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    Re: Moss and the offseason

    In Response to Re: Moss and the offseason:
    Moss' "bad behavior" with the Pats was griping at a charity dinner and complaining that the Patriots didn't want him back.  Both are forgiveable.  Taking 2 guys to cover him on every play is worth it, even if we don't throw to him.  He simply can not play anywhere else any more.  It's the Pats or the dust bin.
    Posted by pauldeba


    the problem is you could start to tell if he was going to get the ball or not based on the amount of effort he put into the route.  If he knew the ball most likely wasn't coming to him he wouldn't try as hard to gain seperation and the defensers were starting to notice.  Plus his relationship with brady led brady to feel compelled to get moss the ball even if he wasn't the best option.  I loved watching moss in NE he was amazing and will probably have a place in patriot place and in Canton.  However, i do not see him at this stage of his career as a fit with the pats.  If BB disagrees i will have no beef with his opinion due to his proximity to the situation and much more vast knowledge of football.  i think we are playing great football and would like to ride this train out before making the decision on if we need a deep threat WR such as moss or not.  As of now i don't think we need one.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Prophet76. Show Prophet76's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    The question is, why would you want him back??? At this point whether he has anything left in the tank is suspect as he's playing like a flat out washed up bum when he should be fighting for another contract "straight cash homey". He's on track to have his worst statistical year EVER in his career. He allows himself to be covered, doesn't fight to get open, doesn't fight for the ball, doesn't block downfield, and when he's not in the progression he knows it and takes the play off. The Pats would have never traded him if they wanted him back so get over it. IT AINT HAPPENING! I'm also not sure the Pats would even have grabbed him off the waiver wire when Minny released him.

    Here's a script I created of every sideline conversation Moss had with Brady...

    Moss: Tom you gotta get me the ball I've been open.

    Brady: Randy you haven't been open.

    Moss: Just huck it up and I'll go get it.

    Brady: If you're open I'll get you the ball.

    Moss: I just told you I've been open.

    Next series Tom hucks it up, Moss is of course covered, doesn't fight for the ball and it's intercepted off the deflection of Moss' hands. Sound familiar from week 2???
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Moss and the offseason

    They didn't get rid of this guy to teach him a lesson and then bring him back, they got rid of him because his skills are in decline and the offense they had built around him did not work anymore, due to those declining skills and the fact that other teams had come up with a way to defense him.  These and his rant early in the season, about his contract status or lack of one are the reasons he's gone. Moss has not been a difference maker in Minnesota or Tennessee.  The PATS offense is much more on track now, with Brady having gone back to spreading the ball around to people who mostly catch it now.  Its not just about who's in the "spread the field" role, its about getting everybody involved in all of the game, all of the time.  As someone else above mentioned, Tate made a spectacular catch in the Chicago game.  He's young and he's fast.  He'll get better and he won't be thirty four next year.  The patriots are done with Moss and you can take that to the bank.

     
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