moss willing to play for incentives only?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    Moss made a stink and shot his way out of town because it was a contract year for him and he wasn't getting his looks. He blew up in the middle of a half and threw a tamper tantrum because he only got 1 rec in the first half.

    How do you honestly think he's going to react when he is on an incentive laden deal and is being treated as a #3/4 role like Ocho was this year? Before you think he could be a #1 again his numbers have been steadily in decline since the 2nd half of the 09' season. It's became increasing clear he lost a step and couldn't gain separation anymore as he was becoming single covered. He was so ineffective as a decoy with the Titans that they benched him for his lack of effort and production.

    Yes lets bring that back into the locker room
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    FN A.  "I love Randy"...."Great guy".  He's always fine if he's winning and getting the ball thrown his way consistently.  Show me a player that wouldn't be?  Name ONE. 

    As I predicted, as soon as either variable was altered he began quitting on routes again, losing concentration and dropping easy balls, shrugging the shoulders and sulking on the sideline with the hurt face expression.  Paying lip service and saying the right things are different than doing them on the field.

    People would deal with that when he was an all world talent.  Just like the pretty girl in highschool, by mid thirties, he's having to swallow his enourmous ego and act like a human being now to get recognized.

    Good luck to him.  I hope he has changed and will give 100% on the field at all times now in his second go around.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    If he's on the cheap why not bring him into camp when we have an 80 man roster? Be stupid not too.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    Enough with the Moss threads already...the man's washed up. He had his chance to put it all out on the field and he blew it...time for some new blood......
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    First of all Moss didn't decline in his last year with the Pats, he blew up Revis Island's hammy with an explosive one handed TD grab in the opening game which sent notice to the NFL that nothing had changed, for the remainder of his time with us he was a decoy.

    The guy is the best WR in the league when healthy and he has never had prolonged health issues, speed doesn't disappear with age and nobody can run with Moss.

    Randy wasn't happy playing decoy for us, he wasn't satisfied with one TD a game with no contract extension and made a stink during the halftime of the Dolphins Monday nighter (good game, I was in the stands wearing a Moss jersey ironically) to the point that he and O'Brien went toe to toe and had to be separated by fellow players. This isn't a rumor, this happened.

    O'Brien is gone now, Moss apologized to Bob Kraft and the rest, I still think it's highly unlikely he will be back but I'd take him back for little money in a heartbeat.  

    Either way we didn't win in 2007 because we stopped running the ball when things got tight in the Super Bowl, if we continue along this course we'll always do well in the regular season and break all sorts of offensive records but never be tough enough to win the ring.  See Marv Levy's Buffalo Bills and Peyton Manning's Colts as a good example why...


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    Wozzy, you mean the hammy that was such a concern that he was questionable going into the game and never came back into the game once he came up lame? That hammy?

    2nd half of 09':

    Buf 12rec 141yrds
    Jets 5rec 34yrds
    NO  3rec 67yrds
    Mia 2rec 66yrds
    Car 1rec 16yrds
    Buf 5rec 70yrds
    Jax 4rec 45yrds
    Hou 5rec 75yrds

    Post-season

    5rec 48yrds

    10':

    Cin  5rec 59yrds
    Jets 2rec 38yrds
    Buf 2rec 48yrds (didn't start)
    Mia 0rec 0yrds

    (traded to Vikings)

    Jets 4 rec 48yrds
    Dal 5rec 55yrds
    GB 3rec 30yrds
    NE 1rec 8yrds

    Released by Vikings picked up by Tenn

    Mia 1rec 26yrds
    Was 0rec 0yrds
    Hou 3rec 23yrds
    Jax 1rec 13 yrds
    Ind 0 rec 0 yrds (stopped starting at this point)
    Hou 0rec 0yrds
    KC 0rec 0yrds
    Ind 1rec 18yrds

    That sure doesn't look like the best WR in the league. There is a clear decline in his games after that Buf game in 09' with 10' being a complete and clear disaster. You can try to blame it on QB's but his performance was declining with Brady. You can try to blame it on OC's but he had 3 different OC's. You can try to blame it on opponents focusing on him but the opponents he faced stunk and he wasn't even a starter in the end. You can try to blame it on injury yet he was healthy for the vast majority of those games. Moss is no longer a starting WR and I doubt he'd put enough effort to even be a #3/4 WR moving forward. He should just bow out now while people still think he could be a great WR again before some foolish team signs him and he looks great for 2-3games then falls off realy quick. I see him being cut or benched before the season ends if some team signs him
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]Moss made a stink and shot his way out of town because it was a contract year for him and he wasn't getting his looks. He blew up in the middle of a half and threw a tamper tantrum because he only got 1 rec in the first half. How do you honestly think he's going to react when he is on an incentive laden deal and is being treated as a #3/4 role like Ocho was this year? Before you think he could be a #1 again his numbers have been steadily in decline since the 2nd half of the 09' season. It's became increasing clear he lost a step and couldn't gain separation anymore as he was becoming single covered. He was so ineffective as a decoy with the Titans that they benched him for his lack of effort and production. Yes lets bring that back into the locker room
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    There were 50 reasons in 51 starts that say we should bring that back into the locker room.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : There were 50 reasons in 51 starts that say we should bring that back into the locker room.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Well then maybe we should also think about bringing Willie Mac back too, or Terry Glenn. You think Curtis Martin is still available?

    You don't sign players based on past performance you sign them on future potential. Looking at a players stats from 3+years ago is useless. You have to look at his more recent performances. I gave the numbers above and the last 2.5 years has shown large decline in performance with not much upside.

    BTW BJGE has had 24TDs in the last 2 years. I don't hear you calling for him to be resigned and Gronk has 27 in the last 2 years. We have plenty of players who can catch TDs we don't need Moss to
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]First of all Moss didn't decline in his last year with the Pats, he blew up Revis Island's hammy with an explosive one handed TD grab in the opening game which sent notice to the NFL that nothing had changed, for the remainder of his time with us he was a decoy. The guy is the best WR in the league when healthy and he has never had prolonged health issues, speed doesn't disappear with age and nobody can run with Moss. Randy wasn't happy playing decoy for us, he wasn't satisfied with one TD a game with no contract extension and made a stink during the halftime of the Dolphins Monday nighter (good game, I was in the stands wearing a Moss jersey ironically) to the point that he and O'Brien went toe to toe and had to be separated by fellow players. This isn't a rumor, this happened. O'Brien is gone now, Moss apologized to Bob Kraft and the rest, I still think it's highly unlikely he will be back but I'd take him back for little money in a heartbeat.   Either way we didn't win in 2007 because we stopped running the ball when things got tight in the Super Bowl, if we continue along this course we'll always do well in the regular season and break all sorts of offensive records but never be tough enough to win the ring.  See Marv Levy's Buffalo Bills and Peyton Manning's Colts as a good example why...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    I was at that game in New York.  Great one-handed catch, but Revis wasn't 100%.  The year before, in Foxboro, Revis pretty much shut Moss down.  And in that Meadowlands game in 2010, after Revis left with the hammy, Cromartie handled Moss easily.  In fact, Cromartie badly beat him to the endzone to get an interception.  And Moss lost another battle on the left sideline which also resulted in an interception.

    Sure, Moss still had the potential to make great plays at times in 2010, but his production was slipping, teams weren't double covering him (the Cromartie interception was man-to-man; Revis also covered him man-to-man without safety help), and he was dropping some easy catches, especially over the middle. 

    I loved the guy--don't get me wrong--but I just don't see him being the way to go now when he's 35.  I guess if BB wants to bring him into camp to see if he has anything left, that's fine . . . but I wouldn't place any high hopes on him being the wideout we really need. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]That sure doesn't look like the best WR in the league. There is a clear decline in his games after that Buf game in 09' with 10' being a complete and clear disaster. You can try to blame it on QB's but his performance was declining with Brady. You can try to blame it on OC's but he had 3 different OC's. You can try to blame it on opponents focusing on him but the opponents he faced stunk and he wasn't even a starter in the end. You can try to blame it on injury yet he was healthy for the vast majority of those games. Moss is no longer a starting WR and I doubt he'd put enough effort to even be a #3/4 WR moving forward. He should just bow out now while people still think he could be a great WR again before some foolish team signs him and he looks great for 2-3games then falls off realy quick. I see him being cut or benched before the season ends if some team signs him
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    The year before he became a Patriot, 42 catches 553 yards 3TD's... 

    ..the year after, maybe the greatest single season all time?

    Unfortunately for them receivers are successful when their team is successful, especially a receiver who other defense's plan around and make adjustments for.  

    Randy was too good to get killed going up high for an errant Andrew Walters (who?) pass on a Raiders team that was the laughing stock of the league, so he refused to play basically.  
    When you're likely to end up in a wheel chair playing on a contract where the team can basically cut you at a moments notice and stop paying you, then you can relate to Randy Moss and all the other NFL players.  Don't be judgmental when you haven't walked those shoes, at most jobs a co-worker won't get you killed.

    Randy Moss isn't tricking anyone, he's just 4.2-4.4 speed, 6'4" tall with a 48' vertical, most important is that he is athletic enough to have control at high speeds to shove defenders away with his body, if he had stuck with Track and Field he would have been Carl Lewis, if he'd stuck with basketball who knows... but for those saying he is too old;


    You might dislike the guy (and don't worry it's not misplaced, he really is an AHo) but he is still uniquely talented at any age.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : The year before he became a Patriot, 42 catches 553 yards 3TD's...  ..the year after, maybe the greatest single season all time? Unfortunately for them receivers are successful when their team is successful, especially a receiver who other defense's plan around and make adjustments for.   Randy was too good to get killed going up high for an errant Andrew Walters (who?) pass on a Raiders team that was the laughing stock of the league, so he refused to play basically.   When you're likely to end up in a wheel chair playing on a contract where the team can basically cut you at a moments notice and stop paying you, then you can relate to Randy Moss and all the other NFL players.  Don't be judgmental when you haven't walked those shoes, at most jobs a co-worker won't get you killed. Randy Moss isn't tricking anyone, he's just 4.2-4.4 speed, 6'4" tall with a 48' vertical, most important is that he is athletic enough to have control at high speeds to shove defenders away with his body, if he had stuck with Track and Field he would have been Carl Lewis, if he'd stuck with basketball who knows... but for those saying he is too old; http://www.aolnews.com/2010/02/16/darrell-green-runs-4-43-40-yard-dash-on-50th-birthday/ You might dislike the guy (and don't worry it's not misplaced, he really is an AHo) but he is still uniquely talented at any age.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Wozzy 12 years ago in HS I ran a 10.6 100m. Last Sept I ran a 11.1 100m and I'm not nearly in the same shape I use to be. The difference is if you had me run a full HS track schedule there is zero chance I'd be able to last the season. It's not a matter of if he can do it again it's a matter of if he can do it over a season. As they get older they slow down during the season. We've seen it with Moss repeatedly. He slows down as the season to progresses.

    When was the last time you saw him out leap someone for a ball or stretch out for a ball or out fight someone for a ball? Last time I remember was the beginning of the 09' season. I didn't see him fight for a ball at all for the vast majority of 09' and not once in 10'.

    With regards to coming from Oak, he was 30. Not young but still in his prime for an elite WR. He is now 35 and a year removed from football. 5 years with 1 not even playing is a lifetime. How many careers (esp in WR's) have we seen end between 30-35? How many WR's have we seen come back after a yr not playing the game when they are 35 and still be affective? It just doesn't happen. Their bodies can't sustain over the length of a season. Like I said he might be good for a couple of games but he will drop off quick. He's not the same WR as he was when he came from Oak, not even close.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : I was at that game in New York.  Great one-handed catch, but Revis wasn't 100%.  The year before, in Foxboro, Revis pretty much shut Moss down.  And in that Meadowlands game in 2010, after Revis left with the hammy, Cromartie handled Moss easily.  In fact, Cromartie badly beat him to the endzone to get an interception.  And Moss lost another battle on the left sideline which also resulted in an interception. Sure, Moss still had the potential to make great plays at times in 2010, but his production was slipping, teams weren't double covering him (the Cromartie interception was man-to-man; Revis also covered him man-to-man without safety help), and he was dropping some easy catches, especially over the middle.  I loved the guy--don't get me wrong--but I just don't see him being the way to go now when he's 35.  I guess if BB wants to bring him into camp to see if he has anything left, that's fine . . . but I wouldn't place any high hopes on him being the wideout we really need. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Moss was having contract issues before that season even began. Randy is a complex personality. Some people are. He wasn't feeling appreciated after doing superhuman things and being on his best behavior. If Randy's head isn't all in, you don't get the A game. Simple as that. Even at that he can still do amazing things on sheer talent.

    Since his ill-advised sulking he has bent over backwards to show his appreciation for having been a Patriot. In my book that counts.

    My bet is he still has some high octane in his tank and the evidence to show otherwise is flimsy.

    If he finds the right situation that is not with the Pats I predict persons will regret we didn't give him a chance.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : Wozzy 12 years ago in HS I ran a 10.6 100m. Last Sept I ran a 11.1 100m and I'm not nearly in the same shape I use to be. The difference is if you had me run a full HS track schedule there is zero chance I'd be able to last the season. It's not a matter of if he can do it again it's a matter of if he can do it over a season. As they get older they slow down during the season. We've seen it with Moss repeatedly. He slows down as the season to progresses. When was the last time you saw him out leap someone for a ball or stretch out for a ball or out fight someone for a ball? Last time I remember was the beginning of the 09' season. I didn't see him fight for a ball at all for the vast majority of 09' and not once in 10'. With regards to coming from Oak, he was 30. Not young but still in his prime for an elite WR. He is now 35 and a year removed from football. 5 years with 1 not even playing is a lifetime. How many careers (esp in WR's) have we seen end between 30-35? How many WR's have we seen come back after a yr not playing the game when they are 35 and still be affective? It just doesn't happen. Their bodies can't sustain over the length of a season. Like I said he might be good for a couple of games but he will drop off quick. He's not the same WR as he was when he came from Oak, not even close.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Fighting or not in '09, he tied for the league lead in TDs, tied for 5th in yards and was 12th in receptions. And this with Brady coming back from the knee.

    FORGET 2010! What don't you get about that? He was out of sorts over his contract before the first game. You act as if all was well and what he did was the extent of what he was capable of. That's silly.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : Fighting or not in '09, he tied for the league lead in TDs, tied for 5th in yards and was 12th in receptions. And this with Brady coming back from the knee. FORGET 2010! What don't you get about that? He was out of sorts over his contract before the first game. You act as if all was well and what he did was the extent of what he was capable of. That's silly.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    To be fair you continuously reference how he was on pace for 16 TD's or whatever during his time with NE in 2010.  Also if we are to forget 2010 that means the last time he played football that "mattered" was the 2009 season.  That is a long time ago.  I also think you underestimate how hard it is to take a year off from football.  I don't think Moss will come back here, but I wouldn't be upset if he was resigned since it would mean BB thinks he has something left.  I just don't get how you think it is so obvious he would be elite.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : To be fair you continuously reference how he was on pace for 16 TD's or whatever during his time with NE in 2010.  Also if we are to forget 2010 that means the last time he played football that "mattered" was the 2009 season.  That is a long time ago.  I also think you underestimate how hard it is to take a year off from football.  I don't think Moss will come back here, but I wouldn't be upset if he was resigned since it would mean BB thinks he has something left.  I just don't get how you think it is so obvious he would be elite.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    I don't think it's obvious he would be elite. I think the evidence leans more to him being effective than not, but it is obviously a question mark.

    I do think that people pronouncing him as washed up is a simplistic and possibly cantankerous view.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    again......who thinks BB is going to go out and pick up a young talented WR in free agency?.........I'd rather have Moss then some low budget 3rd string WR that will get picked up

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : Moss was having contract issues before that season even began. Randy is a complex personality. Some people are. He wasn't feeling appreciated after doing superhuman things and being on his best behavior. If Randy's head isn't all in, you don't get the A game. Simple as that. Even at that he can still do amazing things on sheer talent. Since his ill-advised sulking he has bent over backwards to show his appreciation for having been a Patriot. In my book that counts. My bet is he still has some high octane in his tank and the evidence to show otherwise is flimsy. If he finds the right situation that is not with the Pats I predict persons will regret we didn't give him a chance.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    I like the guy.  I'd be glad to be wrong on this one. 


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    last time he played football that "mattered" was the 2009 season.

    * oohhh.   a trumph card!*
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Moss07. Show Brady2Moss07's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    Patriot fans cannot let Moss go.... That said neither can I. I love Moss and would take him back in a second! Come back Randy I luv you!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]First of all Moss didn't decline in his last year with the Pats, he blew up Revis Island's hammy with an explosive one handed TD grab in the opening game
    Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't that the year Revis held out for a new contract and had no off season and was basically playing himself into football shape from the beginning of the season? I mean if my recollection is correct and that's the one shining bit of evidence , ouch , not the best point of reference to use.

    which sent notice to the NFL that nothing had changed, for the remainder of his time with us he was a decoy. The guy is the best WR in the league when healthy and he has never had prolonged health issues, speed doesn't disappear with age and nobody can run with Moss. Randy wasn't happy playing decoy for us, he wasn't satisfied with one TD a game with no contract extension and made a stink during the halftime of the Dolphins Monday nighter (good game, I was in the stands wearing a Moss jersey ironically) to the point that he and O'Brien went toe to toe and had to be separated by fellow players. This isn't a rumor, this happened. O'Brien is gone now, Moss apologized to Bob Kraft and the rest, I still think it's highly unlikely he will be back but I'd take him back for little money in a heartbeat.   Either way we didn't win in 2007 because we stopped running the ball when things got tight in the Super Bowl, if we continue along this course we'll always do well in the regular season and break all sorts of offensive records but never be tough enough
    I seriously hope you are not suggesting adding Moss will bring toughness to the Patriots that they are somehow lacking?

    to win the ring.  See Marv Levy's Buffalo Bills and Peyton Manning's Colts as a good example why...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    Moss is a classic example of a hood-ornament receiver, too. He is one of the best wideouts in history; and certainly one of the great downfield threats in history. His 151 TD receptions, second only to Rice, say it all. But the Patriots didn't need Moss to race across the finish line first three times from 2001 to 2004 and lose out on a photo finish in 2006. And they obviously never drove the distance with him, either


    The Tom Brady Era Patriots

    • Went 12-2 in the playoffs before Moss
    • Went 2-2 in the playoffs with Moss

    • Won three Super Bowls before Moss
    • Won zero Super Bowls with Moss

    • Averaged 25.3 PPG in the playoffs before Moss
    • Averaged 20.8 PPG in the playoffs with Moss

    So which was the better playoff team? The club that went 12-2, won three Super Bowls and averaged 25.3 PPG; or the club that went 2-2, won zero Super Bowls and averaged 20.8 PPG? The answer is obvious. The Patriots were a record-setting playoff team in the days before Moss. They were just an ordinary playoff team with Moss.

    Brady was certainly a better postseason quarterback in the early days, too. Whether coincidence or not, we don't know. But we do know that one set of playoff data,  is better than the other.

     
      W-L Att.-Comp. Pct. Yards YPA TD Int. Rating PPG
    Brady pre-Moss 12-2 295-486 60.7 3,217 6.6 20 9 86.2 25.3
    Brady with Moss 2-2 100-151 66.2 891 5.9 8 6 82.9 20.8

    The numbers are rather shocking: Brady had a reputation as a dink-and-dunk kind of quarterback in his early days. The numbers support the reputation: his 6.6 YPA in the 14 pre-Moss playoff games was just below the leaguewide average of about 6.8 to 6.9 YPA.

    But Brady also dink-and-dunked his way to 10 straight playoff wins at one point, three Super Bowl victories, a pair of Super Bowl MVP awards, a pair of last-second, game-winning Super Bowl drives, and a record 32 completions in Super Bowl XXXVIII. Considering the Patriots seemed to play half their postseason games in snow, rain or bone-chilling cold, the numbers are pretty decent. They were certainly good enough to win consistently.

    But with Moss, the quarterback's numbers suffered badly: Brady was, at one point, the least-intercepted passer in postseason history. But he suffered not one but two three-pick playoff games with Moss as his battery mate (vs. San Diego in the 2007 AFC title game; vs. Baltimore in the 2009 wild-card round).

    More amazingly, Brady and Moss simply could not get the ball down the field in the playoffs. Moss was supposed to be the greatest downfield threat in history. But Brady's 5.9 YPA average with Moss is incredibly poor, well below his very good career regular-season average of 7.3 YPA.

    And Moss was a no-show. In four playoff games with the Patriots, he caught 12 passes for 142 yards and 1 TD. That was one day of work for Deion Branch in the playoffs -- back when New England was winning championships. Put another way: the explosive Brady-Moss battery of the regular season was a major-league dud in the postseason.

    Two postseasons best illustrate the difference between the pre- and with-Moss Patriots:

    Consider the 2004 postseason. The Patriots scored 437 points during the regular season. Then they walked into Pittsburgh for the AFC title game to face a raucous crowd, the bitter cold, the top-ranked scoring defense in football and a great Steelers team that went 15-1 in the regular season.

    The Patriots destroyed Pittsburgh that night. They hung 41 points on the mighty Steelers (34 offensive points) in the greatest postseason offensive effort in franchise history. The effort was paced by a career performance from Branch, who torched the league's best defense for four catches, 116 yards, 29.0 YPC and one TD. Branch followed up that effort with 11 catches for 133 yards while earning Super Bowl MVP honors in a victory over a great Eagles team.

    Now consider the 2007 Patriots. They went 16-0 and scored more points than any other team in history (589). But they struggled to move the ball in the AFC title game, eking out a 21-12 home victory over San Diego and its injured quarterback, Philip Rivers. Moss was a no-show: one catch for 18 yards, just weeks after finishing the regular-season with a record 23 TD receptions.

    The Patriots offense followed that effort with arguably the greatest postseason choke job in history: after scoring 36.8 PPG in the regular season, they scored a meager 14 points against a Giants club that had gone just 10-6 in the regular season.

    Moss made an impact, but hardly a big one for a player considered among the greatest receivers ever: he caught five passes for 62 yards and 1 TD (to his credit, a go-ahead TD late in the fourth quarter).

    But at the end of the day, the offense failed to show up for the biggest game of the year, and the shiny hood ornament could do little to aid the team in its time of need.

    Maybe you remember how the 2009 season ended, too: The Patriots were destroyed by the Ravens, 33-14, the team's first home playoff loss since 1978. The Brady-Moss battery was a dud ... again. Brady had the worst playoff game of his career (23-for-42, 54.8 percent, 154 yards, a dreadful 3.7 YPA, 2 TD, 3 INT, 49.1 passer rating).

    Moss? Five catches, 48 yards, zero TD, zero impact on the outcome of a playoff game. Again.

    Yeah no Thank you....

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?


    You could make the argument that Brady got in the habit of throwing to him even when he wasn't open because he so often won the one-on-one battles for the ball with defenders.  This became costly at times, though, because some of those passes ended up intercepted.  When Brady tries to do the same with Edelman (as in the Ravens game) it's just ugly. Moss, in his good years, could beat triple coverage.  Edelman can't beat single coverage.  


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only? : Fighting or not in '09, he tied for the league lead in TDs, tied for 5th in yards and was 12th in receptions. And this with Brady coming back from the knee. FORGET 2010! What don't you get about that? He was out of sorts over his contract before the first game. You act as if all was well and what he did was the extent of what he was capable of. That's silly.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    If you forget 2010 you have to forget 2007. I would say 2010 is more relevant to what Moss will be now then 2007 yet you keep bringing up those numbers. So Forgetting 2010 and 2007 lets just look at 2009 and 2011 shall we. 2009 his first half numbers looked excellent. But, then look at the second half numbers I posted. They were average at best and #3/4 WR numbers at worst. Then look at 2011 numbers.... Oh wait we can't because he didn't play!

    Ohh yeah harping on his TD numbers from 09', BJGE had the 2nd most for RB's in 2010' and 2nd most over the last 2 years for RB's (Foster only had 2 more over the 2 year stretch). I don't here you clamoring for BJGE to return. TD numbers are nice but aren't a good indication of performance. Look at the individual games and put the numbers into context. When you do that you'll see Moss had 2 seasons in 09' His great first half and a significant drop off in the second half.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    In Response to Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?:
    [QUOTE]You could make the argument that Brady got in the habit of throwing to him even when he wasn't open because he so often won the one-on-one battles for the ball with defenders.  This became costly at times, though, because some of those passes ended up intercepted.  When Brady tries to do the same with Edelman (as in the Ravens game) it's just ugly. Moss, in his good years, could beat triple coverage.  Edelman can't beat single coverage.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    When exactly or how long ago was Moss's good years?

    2009 Playoffs vs Ravens
    Player          Rec     Yds      Avg        TD      Lng     Tgts
    R. Moss         5        48        9.6        0        19       7
    J. Edelman     6        44        7.3        2        24       8


    Hmmm let's see.

    Moss let a Rookie backup slot receiver playing in his first playoff game in the NFL, in his first ever season playing WR period(QB in college), forced into the starting lineup due to injury, best him in performance for the game.

    Not exactly the kind of argument you want to bring when you are looking for convincing reasons why the Patriots should bring him back.

    Not sure that was your point of the post or not but if it was, just sayin'.

    Heck just the fact you chose to compare Moss to Edelman I think says more about Moss in present day times than it does about Edelman.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ender587. Show Ender587's posts

    Re: moss willing to play for incentives only?

    You guys are nuts... SIGN MOSS NOW.  You have one of the greatest receivers of all time telling you he wants to be a patriot, and he is willing to do it for NO RISK TO YOU.  Your insane if you let him get away.  Someone already said it, but a motivated Randy Moss is a scary thing.

    No production from the Viks or the Titans, because they suck!
     
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