Murray vs Vereen

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    Maroney played a lot as a rookie.  So, BB will play young guys.  It could just be that BB is not confident in Vereen's blocking.  He would have responsibility for keeping TB in one piece as a last defense.
    Even at his age, my eyes tell me Faulk is still the best at blitz-pickup among the RBs.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    In Response to Re: Murray vs Vereen:
    Maroney played a lot as a rookie.  So, BB will play young guys.  It could just be that BB is not confident in Vereen's blocking.  He would have responsibility for keeping TB in one piece as a last defense. Even at his age, my eyes tell me Faulk is still the best at blitz-pickup among the RBs.
    Posted by nyjoseph


    That is true he does, but it was a platoon. I guess Vereen is on the bottom of the pole.

    He could just be having more trouble than anyone else at picking through NFL size blocking. 

    Yeah, Faulk is the chip-artist. Your eyes, my friend, are not fooling you at all. Sadly, it does look like he has lost a step as a runner and reciever.

    However, isn't it odd that the few reps Vereen has gotten, he was actually hanging back to block for Tom!


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    heres a blast from the past. im not really in the discussion but it kinda hurts to reread. www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3a0139b12e-73ca-46cc-a419-188866693882&plckCurrentPage=344 even hankerson caught for over 100 yards last week.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_Draft
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    Too early to give up on Verreen-let's see him play a season first-for goodness sake!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    We need you drafting our next years draft-let's give the guy a shot first! Faulk, Woodhead,Law-Firm-kinda full backfield. Maybe the guy needs to learn the blitz pickup-who knows?In Response to Re: Murray vs Vereen:
    Vereen is not going to touch the ball this year or next year.  Out of the NFL in 3 years or less. Terrible draft pick.  Waste.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    If Vereen had any talent at all, he'd be getting at least a few touches.

    The dude hasn't played a lick all year -  BB doesn't want him anywhere near the football.  Not even returning punts or kicks.  Just sitting on the bench week after week.

    This is where BB keeps vereen around for a couple of years - solely to avoid criticism of the pick.  Keep Vereen around as a "prospect" to cover the fact that you should have never drafted him.

    this isn't the first time - nor the last - that BB has tried to hide his terrible draft picks.

    Vereen will never play RB in a game for the Patriots.  Out of football in <3 years.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    The jury is obviously still out on Vereen although when he still did not get a touch in the first Jets game with Woodhead and Faulk both out, it told me they do not think to highly of him. 

    Murray certainly looks like the top of last years RB class, but two of the back taken before him (Leshoure & Ryan Williams) are missing this season due to injuries. I know a lot of people thought Vereen was a reach where they took him (third RB taken). With the lockout, I say you have to give him at least next season before you can decide if he is a bust.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    yeah, if murray was injured before he broke out, we sure wouldnt really be talking about him right now. bb drafted captains only in the early draft. maybe next year he'll feel good enough about the clubhouse environment to get a big burner wr, because our backfield is officially full. bjge and faulk have to be two of the slowest rbs in the league, pound for pound anyway.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    In Response to Re: Murray vs Vereen:
    The jury is obviously still out on Vereen although when he still did not get a touch in the first Jets game with Woodhead and Faulk both out, it told me they do not think to highly of him.  Murray certainly looks like the top of last years RB class, but two of the back taken before him (Leshoure & Ryan Williams) are missing this season due to injuries. I know a lot of people thought Vereen was a reach where they took him (third RB taken). With the lockout, I say you have to give him at least next season before you can decide if he is a bust.
    Posted by FrnkBnhm


    I wouldn't say Vereen is approaching bust status yet. Long way to go for that. I think we have to actually see him in action, then make that determination. Count me as one of the believers on this forum. The kid has the total package, or did at least in college.

    I would consider he and Ridley a reach, as well as many others. I don't buy the lockout theory some have posed here. RB is supposedly one of the easiest positinos to make the transition to the NFL. Now, if the Pats scheme makes it more difficult on the RB for whatever reason, I'll buy that.

    ZB is right on the athleticism comment. At some point, character and intelligence only get you so far. Just as athleticism do. However, we aren't playing chess here. This is football. Give me freakish athlete any day of the week, and I'll just line him up and tell him to go at it. If I need to dumb it down for a bit, so be it. Just let the athlete in him take over and keep it simple.
    If the Pats system is too complicated for most rookies to learn regardless of intelligence, that says something. Vereen is also known as being a smart kid. So he has intelligence, character and athleticism.

    I see he and Price as 2 potential weapons we can unleash on the NFL down the stretch. No team has tape on them per se, and they could be mixed in in some very interesting ways. I hope we haven't wasted another 2nd and 3rd round pick. I'm willing to give these guys and BB the benefit of the doubt but am a bit gunshy because of our drafting history as of late.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffory. Show jeffory's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    Dallas uses Murray because they have to. Vereen and Ridley need offseason training camp to show what they have with both experience and strengthening. Let's hold off until next season before any evaluations.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen



    When Murray was put in duirng the Pat game
    I thought he was an immdiate upgrade over Jones
    And wondered what Dallas was thinking??

    I think when you are a pass first team, and run to
    keep teams honest , the rb is at a disadvantage

    In that case we have to look more atyper run than total
    running yards - espeically when thereis running by committee

    I have no clue what will be this year
    Would like to see Vareen
    I think we will be fine tuning our offense
    Probelm is it isn't against top Defenses and we
    won't know until the playoffs


    But i do see Faulk and Woody gone next year
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bradythebest. Show Bradythebest's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    Dallas had no RB left due to injuries. That's why Murray got a chance to show what he got and he used that nicely. Vereen never got an opportunity. 

    Personally I think we keep older guys alot, especially at RB. Fred Taylor, Faulk, Sammy morris until last year, Faulk this year. I think we should clean out the back field next year and give Vereen and Ridley a chance to show what they got. If we have to break the bank for Lawfirm, let him walk and drast another bruiser in the later rounds.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    The only difference between the 2 players that I have seen is that one has been given an opportunity to play and the other has not.

    Who knows how good Vareen is?
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    hey rusty, still think it was genius to take two rbs in the top 3 rounds? speaking of dumb.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    In Response to Re: Murray vs Vereen:
    This is really a dumb thread. If Ridley can't even get snaps with BJGE nursing a turf toe, and Woodhead is barely used, we can't be calling Vereen a bust. This about depth chart stuff here.  Felix Jones got hurt. So, in steps Murray. Also, Dallas has a better O Coordiinator than we do in Jason Garrett. Dallas doesn't try to throw 40+ times a game with an addiciton to it. Absolutely ludicrous logic. Talk to BB as to why Ridley isn't getting snaps as a lead back or why old Faulk who  looks slow is taking snaps from Woodhead/Vereen. The other reason why Murray has done a nice job is because Dallas got back a couple key O Linemen, which has helped the run game.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I agree that it is far too early to consider him a bust. Considering that he still did not get touch the week that Woodhead and Faulk were out (the first NYJ game), you have to assume the team is not enamored with his skills. 

    I would not be sold on Garrett as an OC after the three runs that gave the ball back to the Patriots when all the Cowboys needed was a first down or two to win that game.

    As of right now, Murray is helping his team and Vereen is not. So you would have to say that Murray was the better pick. In reality though, you need to give a draft at least two full seasons and maybe three to judge the picks.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    In Response to Re: Murray vs Vereen:
    Dude, blaming Garrett in that game is what Cowboys fans will do to avoid blaming Romo for stupid plays or the fact Garrett didn't trust Romo there. Did you see the end of the Cowboys Jets game? Ok, then. Anyway, Murray wouldn't be getting touches here, so you can't compare Murray as the "better" pick. Dallas runs a less complex, less responsible system.  The main reason why someone like Faulk gets looks in Pitt or Ridley is even held back is because of the schemes we run, including blocking, etc. This is not a harbinger of Ridley or Vereen's talents, they just need reps.  Without camp, and with each dinged up a bit in August, they lost those reps. Dallas doesn't run a complex offense like we do. Finally, we barely run the thing, while Dallas is running it all over teams. If BJGE, Woodhead and Faulk were out or hurt, and we saw a Ridley or Vereen as a lead back, then we could compare.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing

    Romo definitely cost Dallas that game, but Garrett needed to take a chance at the end. If they are going to make Romo their starting QB, they need to at least put the ball in his hands to try to win games. I feel like you have blamed O'Brien for plenty of this teams faults.

    I am sick of hearing about how complicated our offense is and how difficult it is for players to pick up. If your offense (or defense for that matter) has become so complex that skilled football players cannot make a contribution, then I would contend that its complexity has become counter-productive. 

    Other teams manage to get contributions from players right away. Look at Mike Wallace vs Brandon Tate. We were told the same thing about Tate. He has the talent, he just needs time to learn our complicated offense. Meanwhile Wallace had 39 catches for 796 (more that Brandon Tate career numbers) and makes the pro bowl in his second season (with over 1250 yards). Now he is one of the top deep threats in the game.

    Back to Vereen, I do not think he was projected by most as a number one running back. He is more of a third down guy and a great receiver out of the backfield. Like I said, when he did not get reps with both of our players who fill that role (Faulk and Woodhead) out. It tells you what the coaches think of him. Again, if you pick a guy in the second round and it going to take two years (or half of his contract) to get something from him, I would say that is a bad pick.

    I still say give him more time. I just think his inability to get on the field is telling. BJGE got 74 carries his rookie year (although, I admit, that backfield was a mess in 2008). 

    One final quick note, Dallas averages less than one rushing attempt per game more than the Patriots (25.9 vs 25.2). So the carries are there. 
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    Who knows? All we know is that we took two RBs with high draft picks and they have done little yet. It's an old story that we have heard over and over. I believe if people are showing good things in practice BB gets them on the field if they are healthy.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    In Response to Re: Murray vs Vereen:
    Dude, blaming Garrett in that game is what Cowboys fans will do to avoid blaming Romo for stupid plays or the fact Garrett didn't trust Romo there. Did you see the end of the Cowboys Jets game? Ok, then. Anyway, Murray wouldn't be getting touches here, so you can't compare Murray as the "better" pick. Dallas runs a less complex, less responsible system.  The main reason why someone like Faulk gets looks in Pitt or Ridley is even held back is because of the schemes we run, including blocking, etc. This is not a harbinger of Ridley or Vereen's talents, they just need reps.  Without camp, and with each dinged up a bit in August, they lost those reps. Dallas doesn't run a complex offense like we do. Finally, we barely run the thing, while Dallas is running it all over teams. If BJGE, Woodhead and Faulk were out or hurt, and we saw a Ridley or Vereen as a lead back, then we could compare.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    Russ,
    For the season, Dallas has 6 more rushing attempts than we do. Although that classifies as "more", I don't think it means "they are running it all over teams", nor "we barely run the thing".

    If you look at individual statistics, Murray is averaging 6.7 yards per carry. If that is not impressive, I'm not sure what it. If you think Dallas has a better Oline than us, you are incorrect. We can run behind this Oline all day. And, it's not like we don't try. 6 more attempts in total is hardly a difference.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    Vareen is last on the depth chart at a position we rarely use as anything but a pass blocker.

    He's behind Woody and Faulk as the third down back and behind LawFirm and Ridley as starters.  He was injured in training camp and is the odd man out not a mystery.

    I liked Roy Helu and he looks pretty good also, but it's a lot easier to look good on a lesser team in a lesser conference.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Murray vs Vereen

    Someone pointed out that Murray is being used because they have to. You really can't compare that to Ridley and Vareen who have not been used. If we had to use them I'm pretty sure we'd be happy with the results. Ridley looks very good and deserves more snaps while BJGE is slowed by unjury. 
     
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