Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TampaPete. Show TampaPete's posts

    Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    We all know the trite and hackneyed criticisms aimed at Bill Belichick and the Patriots when the haters try to minimize their achievements. One of the most common is that the Patriots play in a "perennially weak" division. So I did the math. Not only did the AFC East have the third most wins (34) this year, but it has accumulated the most victories (403) in the 12 years since the divisions were realigned. In other words, the AFC EAST has been the STRONGEST division over the last 12 years.

    Every divisional game is a wash accounting for a win and a loss, so what makes the difference are games outside of the division.  The AFC East wins more games out of their division than any other.

     

     

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    Sniff, sniff... yep just as I thought.  The stat cherry picker is at work.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYPatsFan12. Show NYPatsFan12's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    meadowlandmike did we just become best friends?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to NYPatsFan12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    meadowlandmike did we just become best friends?

    [/QUOTE]

    Unlikley.  However, fans of varied persuations can agree on all sorts of things.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    take out the top dog in every division.

    the Pats win 11/12 a year. thats 1/3 of our divisions wins. if you take out the top dog in every division every year and add up all three other teams and get the same conclusion call me.

    our wins in the AFC East are bloated by us.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:

    Sniff, sniff... yep just as I thought.  The stat cherry picker is at work.  



    You call it cherry picking, I call it the truth. Keep perpetuating those lies.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Sniff, sniff... yep just as I thought.  The stat cherry picker is at work.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You call it cherry picking, I call it the truth. Keep perpetuating those lies.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What lies are those?  Your inability to understand such things does not make me a liar.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    take out the top dog in every division.

    the Pats win 11/12 a year. thats 1/3 of our divisions wins. if you take out the top dog in every division every year and add up all three other teams and get the same conclusion call me.

    our wins in the AFC East are bloated by us.



    Huh? I'll call you. What's your number?

    If the Pats beat the Jets or the Jets beat the Pats the win stays in the division. If you take out the top dog in every division you will get the same results.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to TampaPete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all know the trite and hackneyed criticisms aimed at Bill Belichick and the Patriots when the haters try to minimize their achievements. One of the most common is that the Patriots play in a "perennially weak" division. So I did the math. Not only did the AFC East have the third most wins (34) this year, but it has accumulated the most victories (403) in the 12 years since the divisions were realigned. In other words, the AFC EAST has been the STRONGEST division over the last 12 years.

    Every divisional game is a wash accounting for a win and a loss, so what makes the difference are games outside of the division.  The AFC East wins more games out of their division than any other.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    not even gonna bother and waste time with contextless numbers and selective stats that try to twist and even rationalize what anyone with eyes and a minimum of football knowledge can see: the AFC EASY has been mediocre to poor and basically an annual cakewalk for the Pats for over a decade now...the Bills Fins and Jets have raised the bar on sustained ineptitude and even when one is shock of shocks actually good the other two still s**k...and the QBs those three teams have fielded forever would make a college coach blush...Pats have a built in advantage every year and take advantage of it. Good for them but don't act like it isn't there.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Huh? I'll call you. What's your number?

     

    If the Pats beat the Jets or the Jets beat the Pats the win stays in the division. If you take out the top dog in every division you will get the same results.

    [/QUOTE]

    sh1t, you're right I over thought that one...
    good call

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    not even gonna bother and waste time with contextless numbers and selective stats that try to twist and even rationalize what anyone with eyes and a minimum of football knowledge can see: the AFC EASY has been mediocre to poor and basically an annual cakewalk for the Pats for over a decade now...the Bills Fins and Jets have raised the bar on sustained ineptitude and even when one is shock of shocks actually good the other two still s**k...and the QBs those three teams have fielded forever would make a college coach blush...Pats have a built in advantage every year and take advantage of it. Good for them but don't act like it isn't there.



    So wins are selective stats?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:



    sh1t, you're right I over thought that one...
    good call



    No problem. As you can probably tell, this is one of my peeves.  lol

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fidd. Show Fidd's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to 42AND46's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TampaPete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all know the trite and hackneyed criticisms aimed at Bill Belichick and the Patriots when the haters try to minimize their achievements. One of the most common is that the Patriots play in a "perennially weak" division. So I did the math. Not only did the AFC East have the third most wins (34) this year, but it has accumulated the most victories (403) in the 12 years since the divisions were realigned. In other words, the AFC EAST has been the STRONGEST division over the last 12 years.

    Every divisional game is a wash accounting for a win and a loss, so what makes the difference are games outside of the division.  The AFC East wins more games out of their division than any other.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    not even gonna bother and waste time with contextless numbers and selective stats that try to twist and even rationalize what anyone with eyes and a minimum of football knowledge can see: the AFC EASY has been mediocre to poor and basically an annual cakewalk for the Pats for over a decade now...the Bills Fins and Jets have raised the bar on sustained ineptitude and even when one is shock of shocks actually good the other two still s**k...and the QBs those three teams have fielded forever would make a college coach blush...Pats have a built in advantage every year and take advantage of it. Good for them but don't act like it isn't there.

    [/QUOTE]


    WoW!

    Define Irony.

     

    Says the guy who team plays in probably the worst div in football. They way you speak, it's like your a current NFC West fan. But no, your team plays in the putrid div that is the NFC East. Obviously just mad that your team is too "inept", to take advantage of how bad it is this year. And it has been awful for years and years.

    When is the last time it produced a great team? Sure the Pats dominate the div. We prove our greatness every single year. We don't just get lucky once, twice and completely fall off the football landscape, like

    ... the giants.

    How f'd up of a team do you have to have in order to take the "circus" title away from the jets. Or share that title.

    Well that's exactly what you've become. A joke.

    It must absolutely suk to have to defend our titles time after time. Or the fact that you have an uglier joe flacco playing QB throwing 20+ picks year after year. Turning the ball over game after game. Constantly defending the fact that you got hot and lucky.

    A fluke.

    I can only speak for myself, but I'm more than fine about what this franchise has accomplished. Actually I'm proud. Every single year we're contenders. Not just to make the playoffs, but win the whole thing. We win no matter what! Our star QB goes down? No problem. We're still in it until the very end and win 10+ games. We get hit with tons of injuries to key players game after game? No problem. Playoffs, 10+ games ... again! Lose Gronk for more than half the year? No problem. Lose our other star TE to a murder scandal? BB eats scandals for breakfast. First round bye ... again.

     

    I can see why you stalk this forum. Giants suk and are being compared to the jets. I get it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    I don't think anybody claims that the Pats aren't a great team; however, the fact is, they have enjoyed mediocre divisional competition.  The reason the record for the AFC East as a whole is so good is because the Pats record vs. non-divisional foes is otherworldly.

    2002-2013 record vs. non-divisional foes:

    Patriots:  90-30

    MIA/NYJ/BUF: 169-191

    How bad are the MIA/BUF/NYJ troika?  In the 12 years under observation, exactly 3 times have they finished with an above .500 record vs. those non-AFCE foes (2002: 18-12, 2004: 16-14, 2008: 19-11); 6 times they finished below .500.  2007 was especially brutal for them; in addition to having to face the greatest regular season juggernaut the NFL has ever seen twice that season, they went a combined 6-24 against the rest of the NFL (6-6 vs. each other, of course).

    With 10 games each vs. non-divisional foes, an average team would generally go between 4-6 and 6-4 in those games.  So, in the 36 combined seasons for the 3 teams, how often were they exceptional (7-3 or better) and how often were they brutal (3-7 or worse)?

    Number of Season with Good (7-3 -> 10-0), Average (4-6 -> 6-4) or Bad (0-10 -> 3-7) non-divisional records

         Good    Average   Bad 

    BUF    1       7        4

    MIA    2       6        4

    NYJ    3       7        2

    NE     9       3        0

    The overall point is that NYJ/BUF/MIA are collectively below-average franchises no matter how you look at the data.  New England has been so good, that any collection of data that includes them (such as total wins vs. non-divisonal foes) will make the whole look above average.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bradysgirlforreal. Show Bradysgirlforreal's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to TampaPete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all know the trite and hackneyed criticisms aimed at Bill Belichick and the Patriots when the haters try to minimize their achievements. One of the most common is that the Patriots play in a "perennially weak" division. So I did the math. Not only did the AFC East have the third most wins (34) this year, but it has accumulated the most victories (403) in the 12 years since the divisions were realigned. In other words, the AFC EAST has been the STRONGEST division over the last 12 years.

    Every divisional game is a wash accounting for a win and a loss, so what makes the difference are games outside of the division.  The AFC East wins more games out of their division than any other.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    So if the Pats won 12 this year that means the other 3 teams won 22--which equates to 7.33 wins for the rest of the teams, which would put them under .500 since their are 16 games. And if you factor in that the Pats have averaged 12 wins the past 12 years that totals 144 wins which when subtracted by the 403 wins in the divisions leaves 259 wins for the other 3 teams in that same period. Divide 259 by 3 teams in that 12 year period and we come out with an 8.2 wins per year average for the other 3 teams over the 12 year span. Not exactly the type of stats to support your argument-now if you were to say the Patriots were one of the leagues top winning teams over the past 12 years you would be spot on!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    Remember when the NFC East was supposed tonbe the best divisions in football? Yeah, anyway, people can knock the all they want but the AFC West was a terrible division for years.

     

    The Chargers have won it with an 8-8 record before. Since 2002, the AFC West has been the laughing stock of the NFL.

     

    The AFC South was a terrible division for years with Peyton Manning cakewalking through the division year after year. Sure, last year, Houston lucked out and won some games, but they were soon exposed for the frauds they were.

     

    The NFC West was also a terrible division for years! Before Harbaugh and Carroll went pro, that division had a 7-9 team win it before.

     

    The ever overrated NFC East, with 3 of the largest markets in the NFL, has been hyped up as one of the best divisions in football because the flukie New York Giants always luck up and win a SB every 4 years with the Cowboys as perenial Superbowl favorites with a sub-par 8 or less wins to their name. The Redskins are always terrible and the Eagles got too much respect due to Andy Reid.

     

    Is the AFC East the AFC and NFC North in the 2000s? Nope, but they're no better or worst than most divisions in the NFL. The only exception is that other divisions don't have a team like the Patriots who dominate up top and stay there.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    Everyone forgets the Jets aren't always terrible, they're just not ever good enough to dethrone the king.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    Put the Patriots in any other AFC division besides the North and they dominate there too.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to MattC05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't think anybody claims that the Pats aren't a great team; however, the fact is, they have enjoyed mediocre divisional competition.  The reason the record for the AFC East as a whole is so good is because the Pats record vs. non-divisional foes is otherworldly.

    2002-2013 record vs. non-divisional foes:

    Patriots:  90-30

    MIA/NYJ/BUF: 169-191

    How bad are the MIA/BUF/NYJ troika?  In the 12 years under observation, exactly 3 times have they finished with an above .500 record vs. those non-AFCE foes (2002: 18-12, 2004: 16-14, 2008: 19-11); 6 times they finished below .500.  2007 was especially brutal for them; in addition to having to face the greatest regular season juggernaut the NFL has ever seen twice that season, they went a combined 6-24 against the rest of the NFL (6-6 vs. each other, of course).

    With 10 games each vs. non-divisional foes, an average team would generally go between 4-6 and 6-4 in those games.  So, in the 36 combined seasons for the 3 teams, how often were they exceptional (7-3 or better) and how often were they brutal (3-7 or worse)?

    Number of Season with Good (7-3 -> 10-0), Average (4-6 -> 6-4) or Bad (0-10 -> 3-7) non-divisional records

         Good    Average   Bad 

    BUF    1       7        4

    MIA    2       6        4

    NYJ    3       7        2

    NE     9       3        0

    The overall point is that NYJ/BUF/MIA are collectively below-average franchises no matter how you look at the data.  New England has been so good, that any collection of data that includes them (such as total wins vs. non-divisonal foes) will make the whole look above average.

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks for clarifying this...   The OP had me intrigued but you are right that NE throws off the total division numbers.

    Another way of looking at it is why did Baltimore own NE over the last few years when the pats have had much better win% in the regular season...?   Baltimore plays in the tougher division.  Not this year though...lol.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    I'd put the NFC west, the NFC south and the AFC west ahead of the AFC north in terms of divisions that are more difficult to win in.

    I think this is also very cyclical. Truthfully buffalo is the only team I'd say historically (at least over the course of our 10 year run) that has been poor. The jets had their moments, the Dolphins had their moments, the colts used to be in our division.

    This is an interesting thread, there are so many factors that can go into it. Truthfully living in the AFC north has been hell for other teams's fans, coaches, GMs and owners. Tom and Bill have put what? 10 coaches? Has it been more? Out of work and maybe 6 GMs.

    Looking at the other teams in the division I'd say the biggest problem for all of them is they've not been able to secure that franchise quarterback. None of them have been able to do that. Miami came close one year when they had their hands on Brees, but dropped the ball...imagine if that had happened? They have had a pretty good defense for a long time there - the tables may of been turned on us, but it never happened. The jets had Sanchez - which was enough to ruin a pretty good defense and running game. The Bills have had no one...come to think of it they've had nothing everywhere.

    There have been some decent coaches fired/resigned in all of this...Saban was smart enough to realize he would ruin his career going against Brady and Belichick, and got out. Brady and Belichick have kept Ryan from being successful - love him or hate him, he knows how to build a defense, he knows defensive schemes that work in the NFL, but when you have Tom picking them apart or Bill adjusting to everything you thought up it ruins things.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    In response to TampaPete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all know the trite and hackneyed criticisms aimed at Bill Belichick and the Patriots when the haters try to minimize their achievements. One of the most common is that the Patriots play in a "perennially weak" division. So I did the math. Not only did the AFC East have the third most wins (34) this year, but it has accumulated the most victories (403) in the 12 years since the divisions were realigned. In other words, the AFC EAST has been the STRONGEST division over the last 12 years.

    Every divisional game is a wash accounting for a win and a loss, so what makes the difference are games outside of the division.  The AFC East wins more games out of their division than any other.

     

     

     

     



    The most wins concept has a lot to do with NE's domination over the past decade, winning 13 and 14 games almost every year.

    That said, you're correct in acknowledging that it's not as weak as the media or jealous people like to proclaim it is.

    I would put it in the middle of the pack, generally speaking.

    It's only the last 2 seasons that the NFC West became strong, for example. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That's right.  Looking at analysis above you have 1 great team , 2 average teams (Mia,nyj) and one below average team (buf).

    A similar analysis of every division would likely produce many more below average teams. But it does shift year to year.

    I think the relative greatness of NE stands out.  Its like total domination.... Haters can't appreciate greatness when it's slapping them in the face

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

     

    take out the top dog in every division.

    the Pats win 11/12 a year. thats 1/3 of our divisions wins. if you take out the top dog in every division every year and add up all three other teams and get the same conclusion call me.

    our wins in the AFC East are bloated by us.

     



    Huh? I'll call you. What's your number?

     

    If the Pats beat the Jets or the Jets beat the Pats the win stays in the division. If you take out the top dog in every division you will get the same results.

    [/QUOTE]

    HUH???

    Take out the Pat's 12 wins, and then remove their two losses this year to the JESTS! and Fish, and the rest of this weak division has 20 wins, less than 7 per team. Let's not confuse the Gaggle of Three as being strong when they don't have to play the Pats. That gives them a 14 game schedule (excepting the 2 Pats games), and a sub .500 record. Not very strong.......

    Sorry, but if any team can dominate their division year in and year out, the division needs to be closely examined for a "strength" determination. As for playing teh NFC division, sometimes you "get" (this season vs the NFC South), and sometimes you "get got" (last season vs the NFC West).   

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Myth: AFC East is a weak division.

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    Remember when the NFC East was supposed tonbe the best divisions in football? Yeah, anyway, people can knock the all they want but the AFC West was a terrible division for years.

     

    The Chargers have won it with an 8-8 record before. Since 2002, the AFC West has been the laughing stock of the NFL.

     

    The AFC South was a terrible division for years with Peyton Manning cakewalking through the division year after year. Sure, last year, Houston lucked out and won some games, but they were soon exposed for the frauds they were.

     

    The NFC West was also a terrible division for years! Before Harbaugh and Carroll went pro, that division had a 7-9 team win it before.

     

    The ever overrated NFC East, with 3 of the largest markets in the NFL, has been hyped up as one of the best divisions in football because the flukie New York Giants always luck up and win a SB every 4 years with the Cowboys as perenial Superbowl favorites with a sub-par 8 or less wins to their name. The Redskins are always terrible and the Eagles got too much respect due to Andy Reid.

     

    Is the AFC East the AFC and NFC North in the 2000s? Nope, but they're no better or worst than most divisions in the NFL. The only exception is that other divisions don't have a team like the Patriots who dominate up top and stay there.



    This +10000000

     

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