1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 7:43 AM EDT

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/13998/dilfer-patriots-offense-exposed-last-year

    also need to run more?
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 8:57 AM EDT

    The Pats thought they could resume their 2007 offense last season.  I suppose I can't blame them for trying, but there were signs even in 2007 that the offense was "figured out" by other teams.  From the Eagles game onward in 2007, the offense was decent, but not great.  Our spread offense was contained fairly well in the playoffs (where you meet the better D's).  In a nutshell, early 2007 caught the league by surprise, but the surprise did not last all season.  Had we played all year like we did in the latter part of the season, not a single record would have been broken.

    I know I'm not alone on this board in wishing the spread goes away this year and we return to smash mouth football.

    Someone will point out that Brady still had his 2nd best year last year and our offense ranked pretty well statistically.  It's why I hate statistics.  Statistics don't tell you that last year, we did indeed move the ball well except under one condition; when we really needed to move the ball.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 9:20 AM EDT

    A pass catching TE (Gronk or Hernandez) makes the spread more effective and we still have Crumpler cementing the edge on running plays. This should translate into a more balanced attack. It all goes back to sound playcalling and exploiting the other team's defensive weaknesses. Throw in some play action and this offense should be pretty darn good as long as all the important pieces stay healthy.
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 9:31 AM EDT

    I couldn't agree more. I hope they line up with 2 tightends all year and run half of the passing offense using play action. We'll be able to pass the ball with the weapons we have but if we can't run we may see more 4th quarter collapses again this year. I'd have to think that BB has recognized this problem. We did draft some huge Tight ends and linemen so let's hope that is the plan.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 9:49 AM EDT

    We were without a 3rd WR last year and an intermittent TE.  All teams had to prepare for was Moss, Welker and Maroney.  That's it.  Play an over under on Moss, stack the box on Maroney and just keep Welker in front of you.  Not hard.

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 10:18 AM EDT

    Shift is most likely to a Air Coryell ish offense with the use of the TE and RB in the spread as Coryell used Winslow.

    A dynamic that the patriots added to the spread that will never change is how they manually audible using hand signals at the line of scrimmage... The patriots offense is tough for this reason becasue the defense predicts the pattern ran and it is the job of the WR to queue brady that a shift has been made so he can adjust on the fly. This is why Galloway was a bust, becasue he could not read coverage at the of scrimmage like Moss, Wlker, Stallworth and Gaffney did in 07.

    I suspect our offense will look a little bit more like the Weisian and Sampesee offenses that got us to one superbowl in the 90's and 3 prior to 05.

    McDaniels did put together a very interesting scheme with the help of Urban Meyer and the Gators but it is predicatable and it can be defeated by a great pass rush as we all know.

    I am looking for 80 collective catches from the TE spot
    Crump 25
    Gronk 30
    Hernandez 25

    Also I think Faulks catches will increase as he will receive a percentage of Welkers targets in the first 6 to 9 games.

    what do you think?
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 10:32 AM EDT

    Brady talked about the spread somewhere where he said when they spread he can see quickly what the other team is scheming and it lets him know right away what the mismatch will be...

    I like the spread and ...the hurry up...which we didnt run alot of last year... but I do hope we run a lot of power football  just to beat teams up like we used to and to set the tone... afc east will be very physical this year   hence the practices with other teams preparing for it...  imo
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 10:43 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    We were without a 3rd WR last year and an intermittent TE.  All teams had to prepare for was Moss, Welker and Maroney.  That's it.  Play an over under on Moss, stack the box on Maroney and just keep Welker in front of you.  Not hard.
    Posted by garytx


    You're joking, right?  You don't actually think teams game planned for Maroney do you? 
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 10:48 AM EDT

    I have to laugh at Bubba posting this now.  We have been talking about this for weeks, if not months, on this board. 

    No kidding there is an imbalance with the offense.

    Why do you think BB signed a vet TE who is an upgrade over Watson and drafted TWO TEs????

    Please wake up, chubbyinhawaii.

    They lost FOUR games last years directly because of this issue.  It wasn't the defense that lost in NY, Den, Miami or even Houston.

    The spread only works against average Ds with little to no depth in the secondary.  They just need to morph the pre 2007 O with the 2007 O so they can use more than one style from week to week.

    If this happens, this offense will be VERY TOUGH to stop.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 11:36 AM EDT

    mighty, I don't think he's talking about gameplanning for Maroney, but how obvious it is when he comes in it's a run.  If Maroney caught balls and/or blocked more, like Morris and Faulk do, D's can't hone in as much.

    The Pats offense was Moss/Welker or a run with Maroney/Morris or Faulk.  Way too easy to gamble on in terms of packages or gameplans for a D.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 11:41 AM EDT

    Good catch, russ.  My bad, sorry to call you out garytx.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 11:59 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    Russ, I wouldn't say the spread only works against average Ds. Saints run a spread offense. Colts run a spread offense. Both teams had more wins than any other last year. Now their spreads might be a little different than ours but still a spread offense. I do agree, however that there needs to be versatility with the O. Being able to spread it out against certain teams and then be able to line up and grind out 4-5 yard runs against other teams. Having Vollmer, Crumpler and perhaps Gronkowski should help us be a little more flexible.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan


    Yeah, but dude, look at depth of personnel. New Orleans had 4 WRs deep.  They also had two healthy solid+ TEs.

    Indy has Dallas Clark and at least 3 god WRs in Wayne, Collie, Garcon.

    NE had Moss and Welker, no TE and no 3rd WR.

    Overall, we agree. They key is the chameleon angle they need to have on D and O.

    They need to infuse a verison of the pre 2007 offense into the one that the guys currently know now.  The good news is, that pre 2007 offense is easier than this 2007 one, in my opinion.

    David Patten was brought back here for a reason. He's a fallback, a leader and a possible option as a 5th WR who can be that WR flanker or slot guy in a TE/run heavy offense.

    Brady is more lethal against good Ds with the pre 2007 offense, believe it or not.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:15 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    We were without a 3rd WR last year and an intermittent TE.  All teams had to prepare for was Moss, Welker and Maroney.  That's it.  Play an over under on Moss, stack the box on Maroney and just keep Welker in front of you.  Not hard.
    Posted by garytx


    very true. And for 2010, we are likely without Welker early on - so, we're still in the same predicament unless two other WRs step up.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:19 PM EDT

    "I have to laugh at Bubba posting this now.  We have been talking about this for weeks, if not months, on this board. 

    No kidding there is an imbalance with the offense.

    Why do you think BB signed a vet TE who is an upgrade over Watson and drafted TWO TEs????

    Please wake up, chubbyinhawaii.

    They lost FOUR games last years directly because of this issue.  It wasn't the defense that lost in NY, Den, Miami or even Houston.

    The spread only works against average Ds with little to no depth in the secondary.  They just need to morph the pre 2007 O with the 2007 O so they can use more than one style from week to week.

    If this happens, this offense will be VERY TOUGH to stop. "
    Russgriswold

    ------
    LMAO...u must be stalking me cuz I've made you look bad often in the past. Still pouting after being wrong again?

    I wasn't posting this because it was a new topic - I posted it because it was an article posted on ESPN today. Nothing more, nothing less.  The fact that you try to make it a personal issue between you and me - again; says more about YOU than about me.

    Keep on trying dude...you're still a Koolaid drinking fan who brown-noses BB at will.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from cwiegmann24. Show cwiegmann24's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:32 PM EDT

    What I would like to see is a return to attacking a defense where it's most vulnerable, which would require different game-planning each week. If a defense is quick, run a lot of screens, draws, misdirections to keep them from bull-rushing. If a defense has a good pass rush, get the ball out quick with dink-and-dunk to tire out the d-line. If we can push them around, run the ball. If we catch a safety sneaking up, send Moss deep. I just remember when we used to baffle defenses and frustrate players because our game-plan was so drastically different every week. That's what I want to see.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:34 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    Russ, it seems you did not read my entire post. You said spread offenses only work against average Ds. I said right now the best offenses work out of the spread. I also went on to say having Vollmer start from day one, the additions of Crump and Gronk, should be able to give us the flexibility to continue to work out of the spread and be more successful with it. Personally, I do not think you need top flight WRs/RBs to run a successful spread. Sure, I think it helps. But what you need more than anything else is a good QB and efficient blocking. I think we had two top WRs last year a very efficient RB (for the spread offense, that is) in Kevin Faulk. I thought we lacked in QB and blocking from the OL. Brady seemed to miss a lot of throws and more than a few would-be TD passes to Moss and even Welker. Faulk didn't seem to be as efficient because he was left in to block so much, because the OL couldn't get the job done. I think with Brady back for another full year and possible upgrades at OT with Vollmer and better blockers in Crump and Gronk at TE than Baker and Watson the spread will be more effective. So my answer to the question of whether or not to change from a "Spread" to a "Smash Mouth" offense is no. We upgraded our personnel to make our Spread better. That is fine with me.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan


    The upgrades at TE will hopefully make the spread offense more effective (as GaryTX implies about receiver depth), make us less predictable for (hopefully) both the passing and running game. So, long as Edelman continues to improve - I don't think we'll lose much in the slot.  However, just for less "predictability" we do need to do some smashmouth running w/ TEs leading the way - and to mix up who we use as the RB in those situations too. It's too easy to go 3-and-out if we pass all the time. We used to be able to control the clock a lot better when we had guys like smith and dillon.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:44 PM EDT

    The O-line does a tremendous job at run-blocking.  The running back group is average for the NFL, but in terms of effectiveness it turns out that a great O-line is everything and a great running back is next to nothing, at least 5 times the effectiveness.

    This year, as soon as Gronk and Hernandez stop acting like rookies, the Patriots are going to have a blocking scheme that Grandma the Clown could run behind.  Opponents will either respect the running game or be smashed all the way to two yards deep in the endzone.   Brady sells the option well.  So, the spread is mostly going on the back shelf.  Brady will still have lots of targets all over the field.  LOTS of targets.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:53 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    The O-line does a tremendous job at run-blocking.  The running back group is average for the NFL, but in terms of effectiveness it turns out that a great O-line is everything and a great running back is next to nothing, at least 5 times the effectiveness. This year, as soon as Gronk and Hernandez stop acting like rookies, the Patriots are going to have a blocking scheme that Grandma the Clown could run behind.  Opponents will either respect the running game or be smashed all the way to two yards deep in the endzone.   Brady sells the option well.  So, the spread is mostly going on the back shelf.  Brady will still have lots of targets all over the field.  LOTS of targets.
    Posted by Paul_K


    I've never gotten the impression that our OL were good at run blocking..pass rushing - yes (although it's slipped a little in terms of hurries....). Last year, there were so many guys on the OL who were getting injured - it seems like they never had a chance to improve at run blocking.  I'm hoping Vollmer starts on the left side w/ Mankins, but it prolly won't happen.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:55 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    "I have to laugh at Bubba posting this now.  We have been talking about this for weeks, if not months, on this board.  No kidding there is an imbalance with the offense. Why do you think BB signed a vet TE who is an upgrade over Watson and drafted TWO TEs???? Please wake up, chubbyinhawaii. They lost FOUR games last years directly because of this issue.  It wasn't the defense that lost in NY, Den, Miami or even Houston. The spread only works against average Ds with little to no depth in the secondary.  They just need to morph the pre 2007 O with the 2007 O so they can use more than one style from week to week. If this happens, this offense will be VERY TOUGH to stop. " Russgriswold ------ LMAO...u must be stalking me cuz I've made you look bad often in the past. Still pouting after being wrong again? I wasn't posting this because it was a new topic - I posted it because it was an article posted on ESPN today. Nothing more, nothing less.  The fact that you try to make it a personal issue between you and me - again; says more about YOU than about me. Keep on trying dude...you're still a Koolaid drinking fan who brown-noses BB at will.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii


    I'll let your stupidity and bandwagon fandom speak for itself because it already has.

    You couldn't articulate a point of your own if it landed on your head, hence why you post a known issue with the Pats via ESPN as a topic of discussion.

    Speak for youself, little boy, not for others.

    Who needs to brown nose a 7 time SB coach with 5 rings?  Learn football, son, and then you might not be laughed hat here in your pink hat.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 12:58 PM EDT

    Heck if they want more production out of the slot until Welker returns then look no further than the TE from Florida, dude has stick 'em for hands and he has played the H-back role at Florida out of the spread offense,I really feel that the Patriots upgraded at TE to the point where they have their versions of Witten and Clark in Gronkowski and Hernandez and mixing them in with Crumpler just makes that unit far more useful than it has been for several years.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 1:00 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    Russ, it seems you did not read my entire post. You said spread offenses only work against average Ds. I said right now the best offenses work out of the spread. I also went on to say having Vollmer start from day one, the additions of Crump and Gronk, should be able to give us the flexibility to continue to work out of the spread and be more successful with it. Personally, I do not think you need top flight WRs/RBs to run a successful spread. Sure, I think it helps. But what you need more than anything else is a good QB and efficient blocking. I think we had two top WRs last year a very efficient RB (for the spread offense, that is) in Kevin Faulk. I thought we lacked in QB and blocking from the OL. Brady seemed to miss a lot of throws and more than a few would-be TD passes to Moss and even Welker. Faulk didn't seem to be as efficient because he was left in to block so much, because the OL couldn't get the job done. I think with Brady back for another full year and possible upgrades at OT with Vollmer and better blockers in Crump and Gronk at TE than Baker and Watson the spread will be more effective. So my answer to the question of whether or not to change from a "Spread" to a "Smash Mouth" offense is no. We upgraded our personnel to make our Spread better. That is fine with me.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan


    I don't really agree with that.

    Even at times last year Indy and New Orleans's offenses were stuck in the mud against good Ds with a rush and good depth in the nickel and dime in the secondary.

    Since everyone is loading up on CBs, I'd rather the Pats get back to having the basics v.s. pretending they can only win with a spread offense every week.  EVen average Ds end up playing well at times with the spread.

    Look how close the SB was between Indy and New Orleans before Egghead laid the egg at the end.

    Is the spread really that good? Would Indy have been better served with a battering ram running game to fall back on? I think so.

    This is the same argument with 'we don't use a TE'. Well, why not? Let's use it all!
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 1:13 PM EDT

    "I'll let your stupidity and bandwagon fandom speak for itself because it already has.

    You couldn't articulate a point of your own if it landed on your head, hence why you post a known issue with the Pats via ESPN as a topic of discussion.

    Speak for youself, little boy, not for others.

    Who needs to brown nose a 7 time SB coach with 5 rings?  Learn football, son, and then you might not be laughed hat here in your pink hat. "  RUSS
    -----
    And that was your best shot, wasn't it? I feel sorry for you.

    Hmmm, as usual, you are wrong. People post threads on the board oftentimes because of articles not only on espn, but on SI, TSN, USA today....and many other sources.  How many posters on here write "original' thoughts that haven't been discussed previously? If people were truly being "original" - well, I guess they'd be a professional writer.

    Even your response to my last thread isn't original. You say that about anyone who disagrees with you.

    In regards to brown-nosing BB. Obviously, YOU need to brown-nose him...because that's all you've got going for you. Methinks that you're a very insecure individual who has a very difficult time admitting that you're sometimes wrong - and you lash out/insult others because you feel it diverts attention away from your insecurity. Guess what - most people already recognize this about you; except for you. How sad is that?
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 1:20 PM EDT

    How is an opinion 'wrong'?

    Explain that, Einstein.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 1:33 PM EDT

    "How is an opinion 'wrong'?

    Explain that, Einstein"


    LOL. Is that a trick question?  It's wrong when it's proven to be so. See example below.  WRONG AGAIN

    ---
    EDT
    Posts: 858
    First: 6/13/2008
    Last: 5/28/2010
    		"What did BB do to Bruschi?   Bruschi has spent his time at ESPN, just hammering every single move BB makes. Every non-move is the worst thing ever and every move they make is awful.

    I have lost a lot of respect for Bruschi.

    Love the guy as a player, find him ultra annoying as an ESPN yes man. " Russgriswold
    ----------
    "“In the NFL today, you need three good corners,” Bruschi said in a meet-and-greet setting at Mullen, a Boston-based advertising agency. “You have Leigh Bodden, Darius Butler an up-and-comer, and now you have the third corner in Devin McCourty. I think he was a good pick.”  Bruschi

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4678036/tedy-bruschi-assesses-mccourty-pick

    Again, fail. Conspiracy theory - fail. He's a reporter. Just because he's a former player for BB doesn't mean he shouldn't be objective when assessing his former team/coach. Besides, his job is basically to "sell" ads - negativity/drama sells.

    http://search.espn.go.com/results?searchString=tedy%20bruschi&start=15&dims=0

    Brown noser - confirmed.
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from russgriswold. Show russgriswold's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    posted at 5/28/2010 1:40 PM EDT

    Agreed. Like I said, we agree, we may just disagree with having the confidence and personnel depth to do the non-spread offense and how important that is based upon our respective views.

    You think it's not as imporant, I feel it is vital, especially late in the game or late in seasons.

    If the Pats committed to it more, they likely wouldn't have lost SB 42 and probably at least 3 games last year in particular.

    It's personnel, but it's also approach. I'd like to see them have more than one trick in the bag, so to speak.