Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    agreed. 

    A lot of people think I am "just trolling" when I criticize Brady for not being around, but the guy (like Manning) worked harder than anyone in the org.  I assume that he, like Manning, made sure the offense was ready to go with significant offseason work on things like timing, route running, etc. 

    With the loss of Welker and all the new TE's, WR's, and developing WR's, it seems to me that the Pats really need Brady around all summer to work with these guys.  Just my opinion.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme? : I guess it's not terribly difficult to figure out what the Patriots are gonna do if noone but Brady is in the backfield :) So, I would agree with you that increasing running plays...and play action plays would make us less predictable. Getting two TEs certainly makes me optimistic that we're gonna mix things up this year....
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii



    Crumpler too. This guy can catch as well as run. His numbers dropped drastically when he went to Tennesee and had to play in that pathetic offense but his numbers in Atlanta were pretty good and he was Vicks Go to guy for a few years.
    Lets hope they use thetightend early and often to block and catch passes.
    Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV
    2001 24 ATL TE 83 16 12 25 330 13.2 3 57 1.6 20.6               330 3 1 5
    2002 25 ATL TE 83 16 9 36 455 12.6 5 33 2.3 28.4               455 5 0 7
    2003* 26 ATL TE 83 16 16 44 552 12.5 3 63 2.8 34.5               552 3 1 8
    2004* 27 ATL TE 83 14 14 48 774 16.1 6 49 3.4 55.3               774 6 1 10
    2005* 28 ATL TE 83 16 16 65 877 13.5 5 48 4.1 54.8               877 5 1 12
    2006* 29 ATL TE 83 16 16 56 780 13.9 8 46 3.5 48.8               780 8 0 10
    2007 30 ATL TE 83 14 10 42 444 10.6 5 55 3.0 31.7               444 5 0 4

          




                                           
                                                     
                                                     
                                                     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    I agree that today's NFL is a passer's league. That said, the running game still serves three very important functions:

    1.) Short Yardage
    2.) Time Management
    3.) Pass Setup

    The '09 Pats running game failed miserably in these areas. These deficiencies were on display in the game at Indy.

    Another problem is the overuse of the Shotgun. Opposing Ds know what the Pats are doing when they line up in the gun. At the time of the Indy game, the Pats were operating out of the gun 75% of the time! That's unacceptable. Until Ds fear the running game, the Pats offense will continue to struggle.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    Your opinion is fairly lame considering Brady is a pro and has been doing this for years.  This is what I mean about people taking the media bait. You took it and will look foolish for doing so.
    Posted by russgriswold


    can't stop you from thinking what you think, but I don't need the media's help on this.  I know the way both Brady and Manning have operated in the offseason in the past and that has now changed for Brady. 

    Professionalism doesn't develop timing and knowledge of tendencies. 

    I am sure he will be fine, but sometimes you need more than that.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jonathan-Goddard. Show Jonathan-Goddard's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    I think the Pats will run a similar offence to the Colts this year, but with the luxury of being able to sub in Hernandez as the move TE split out ala Dallas Clark and then bring in Gronk and Crumpler for the more condensed formations.

    The biggest loss to this team over the last few years was Daniel Graham, best run blocking TE in the league.

    The extra receivers brought in should also allow the offence to spread the opposition D out more with more legitimate targets and the run game should see benefits.

    I also hope to see Brady under centre a lot more as he is a great play action QB (again, more like the colts offence would be great).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    Can pats fans say finesse team?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?


    I'll give O'Brien the benefit of the doubt. He did have quite a few missing parts last year, and Brady coming back off being out an entire year. Frankly, I was surprised most of the time that they hung in games and scored as many points as they did with the lack of a 3rd WR, pisspoor TE's and the various injuries. 

    Like someone said on here....Hernandez is the wild card because he can do so much. I think if you line up 3WR's, use Crump/Gronkowsi at TE, and Hernandez line up as a RB in the backfield, imagine the possibilities. 5 receiving threats, 2 good blockers if they hang back and protect Brady, or Hernandez takes a hand off/shuttle pass and cruises up the middle on an all out defensive blitz. 

    Someone also said that defenses will have to play more honest against us. Meaning, the Jets can't simply bring the house on every play. This is a good thing. Assuming you have Revis on Moss, Wilson on Edelman/Holt, and Cromartie on whoever, we still have depth enough to bring in a quality 4th WR, or put 2 TE's on the field together and ask the LB's to cover them. Good luck. 

    I think this offense is going to give defenses fits again. And like Russ said, we have the ability to change quickly from a spread to a power formation just when folks think they have us figured out. And, we can run or pass from either formation, so good luck guessing what's coming next. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    Another problem is the overuse of the Shotgun. Opposing Ds know what the Pats are doing when they line up in the gun. At the time of the Indy game, the Pats were operating out of the gun 75% of the time! That's unacceptable. Until Ds fear the running game, the Pats offense will continue to struggle.
    Posted by CubanPete

    Plus, it's hard to sell play action when they can't gain decent yardage when running.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?



    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme? : Crumpler too. This guy can catch as well as run. His numbers dropped drastically when he went to Tennesee and had to play in that pathetic offense but his numbers in Atlanta were pretty good and he was Vicks Go to guy for a few years. Lets hope they use thetightend early and often to block and catch passes. Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV 2001 24 ATL TE 83 16 12 25 330 13.2 3 57 1.6 20.6               330 3 1 5 2002 25 ATL TE 83 16 9 36 455 12.6 5 33 2.3 28.4               455 5 0 7 2003 * 26 ATL TE 83 16 16 44 552 12.5 3 63 2.8 34.5               552 3 1 8 2004 * 27 ATL TE 83 14 14 48 774 16.1 6 49 3.4 55.3               774 6 1 10 2005 * 28 ATL TE 83 16 16 65 877 13.5 5 48 4.1 54.8               877 5 1 12 2006 * 29 ATL TE 83 16 16 56 780 13.9 8 46 3.5 48.8               780 8 0 10 2007 30 ATL TE 83 14 10 42 444 10.6 5 55 3.0 31.7               444 5 0 4                                                                                                                                                                                                      
    Posted by ewhite1065


    LOL.  Yeah, him too :)

    Unfortunately, I have unrealistically high expectations for Gronk and Hernandez....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    Matt Bowen did a story on how the Patriots beat Indy's Tampa-2 defense.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Inside-the-playbook-Brady-to-Moss.html

    They went with an extra tight end, 9 guys in position for a running attack, with Welker and Moss outside.  Indy, a notoriously weak team against the run, had to respect the run.  Brady fakes the handoff, sets up and lo and behold, Moss is being guarded by a lone strong safety who has already lost a step.  The poor safety has to catch up so he has no idea where the ball is coming down and also his arms are too short.  Yada yada.  Moral:  a potent running game balances and sets up the passing game.  That's why BB wants Gronk, Hernandez and Crumpler.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    Good Thread... I said befoire the draft that the Patriots wanted to move more towards a flex offense playing a Power offense with the ability to flex to spread easily. THey have the pieces to do that especially with Hernandez who can line up at WR.
    Their offense could be unstoppable maybe even better then 2008 by the playoffs!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    Now, just to be contrary, what if Brandon Tate catches fire?  What if Price is smarter than the average rookie?  What if Gronk has a long learning curve?  Then the Patriots will go 4-wide or 5-wide despite the critics who say the spread is "figured out". 

    The West Coast Offense is not a BB invention.  It's been figured out long ago.  What BB really needs is two speedsters and two slot guys to pull it off.  If he's got the guys and some other team has nothing but slow, run-oriented safeties and slow linebackers, out comes the spread again, and good luck to the guy single-covering Moss.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    Good Thread... I said befoire the draft that the Patriots wanted to move more towards a flex offense playing a Power offense with the ability to flex to spread easily. THey have the pieces to do that especially with Hernandez who can line up at WR. Their offense could be unstoppable maybe even better then 2008 by the playoffs!
    Posted by DaBlade

    Quite a few of us are hoping...no question about that :)
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    I have been saying this since 2007 when they were tearing it up. They needed to incorporate a true dual threat back, not a third down specialist like Faulk, but more like his cousin was. And bring in a TE. Continue to run the NE tree, but use something like the Colts/Rams TE/RB spread for dual duty. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    A pass catching TE (Gronk or Hernandez) makes the spread more effective and we still have Crumpler cementing the edge on running plays. This should translate into a more balanced attack. It all goes back to sound playcalling and exploiting the other team's defensive weaknesses. Throw in some play action and this offense should be pretty darn good as long as all the important pieces stay healthy.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz


    +1  Eggs-actly!

    If all 3 produce, which is quite plausible, the attack will be very hard to stop, just using the WRs as a decoy.  At one Wes Welker, things could be very confusing for the defense.    Add a running game...lethal.  Add two productive WRs (including Moss)...just plain nasty!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme? : +1  Eggs-actly! If all 3 produce, which is quite plausible, the attack will be very hard to stop, just using the WRs as a decoy.  At one Wes Welker, things could be very confusing for the defense.    Add a running game...lethal.  Add two productive WRs (including Moss)...just plain nasty!
    Posted by BTownExpress


    And if our pass rush miraculously improves and our secondary comes together....?  Laughing
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need tomChange Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    You're asleep at the wheel if you don;t see the talent in the secondary.   The idea should be does the DE group stay healthy this year.   Nothing needs to be miraculous when they have some nice talent at DE and one spot up for grabs at OLB. Tubby in Hawaii again lost. Let us know when a team is a top notch D after losing 4 Pro Bowl caliber players all at once.  
    Posted by russgriswold


    -----------------------------------

    You are so funny.  Do you not see how pathetic you are  This is clearly another response of yours that is sooooo desparate because you really do believe you lost your "street cred". Bubba

    ----------------------


    Funny how I have been saying all along what NE is doing through this stretch is incredible, while pink hats like yourself and Tubbyin Hawaii complain about not winning the SB last year. 
    Posted by russgriswold


    I guess you're still a sore sport for being wrong from previous threads draggin my screenname into a thread that wasn't even started by me.  Again, your own words are so easily worked against you.  Laughing Bubba
    -------
    In Response to Re: Best Franchise:
    Funny how you claim there is "drama" yet it is you and your boyfriend continuing to use this board as a stage for trying to create it. You behave this way because you were shown and can't let it go.  Deal with it. You aren't t as educated on the topics as some others here. Get off your high horse.
    Posted by russgriswold



    Hmmm, again - you are wrong.  Take this thread for example.  My contribution was a joke - no mention of you whatsoever.

    From a different thread:
    In Response to Re: Bruschi: Patriots must pay Mankins:
    In Response to Re: Bruschi: Patriots must pay Mankins : Ugggg, yeah. I suppose you have some other way of turing it around. However, what you will find is in 99.999999999999% of the football world when a team goes from 11-5 and a league championship game to 9-6 and a divisional playoff loss that is generally considered regressing.  To simplify it for you, they did not do as well as a team, even though there QB performed better in his second year.  I understand that you consider it impossible any team that crushes a BB coached team 33-14 could have actually regressed from the year before and in your bizzaro world where a higher QB rating means you actually have gotten worse, this all seams really weird to you.  Regardless of your lack of understanding of some pretty common football truths, you are once again, wrong and you refuse to admit it.  Please apologize to the forum and personally to Bubba.
    Posted by waldorff


    Thanks for the support, but I don't feel anybody owes an apology to anyone.  I suspect the drama has been layed to rest.  BUBBA.
    ------------

    Seriously, who's not willing to let it go? You are clearly the sore loser here. As I've indicated before - I know nothing of football and I have well below average intelligence.  Is that what bothers you? That you somehow lost your "street cred" to a loser like me after I showed how many of your opinions or misrepresented facts were indeed wrong?
    ---------
    one of your last responses: "Statistically, I am wrong.  Results-wise, I am correct." RussGriswold.

    How classic was that?  I bested you, you were wrong over and over and over again. And, indeed, you are having difficulty dealing with it....how embarrassing for you. Bubba
    -----------
    "I'll let your stupidity and bandwagon fandom speak for itself because it already has.

    You couldn't articulate a point of your own if it landed on your head, hence why you post a known issue with the Pats via ESPN as a topic of discussion.

    Speak for youself, little boy, not for others.

    Who needs to brown nose a 7 time SB coach with 5 rings?  Learn football, son, and then you might not be laughed hat here in your pink hat. "  RUSS
    -----
    And that was your best shot, wasn't it? I feel sorry for you.

    Hmmm, as usual, you are wrong. People post threads on the board oftentimes because of articles not only on espn, but on SI, TSN, USA today....and many other sources.  How many posters on here write "original' thoughts that haven't been discussed previously? If people were truly being "original" - well, I guess they'd be a professional writer.

    Even your response to my last thread isn't original. You say that about anyone who disagrees with you.

    In regards to brown-nosing BB. Obviously, YOU need to brown-nose him...because that's all you've got going for you. Methinks that you're a very insecure individual who has a very difficult time admitting that you're sometimes wrong - and you lash out/insult others because you feel it diverts attention away from your insecurity. Guess what - most people already recognize this about you; except for you. How sad is that?  Bubba
    -----------------------
    -----------------------
    "How is an opinion 'wrong'?

    Explain that, Einstein" RussGriswold

    -------------------------------

    "In Response to Re: Bruschi: Patriots must pay Mankins:
    Some of you apparently don't know any non_pats fans or never lived outside thhe Boston area long enough to get a gauge of the jealousy and hatred of this team. Newsflash:  90% of non-Pats fans HATE NE. Posted by russgriswold


    where is your reliable source on this stat? just curious." Bubba
    -----
    "I don't need a stat to have experience living out of the Boston area for over 10 years and seeing this unfold." RUSS
    -----
    I interpret this to mean that you're speaking out of your azz again.

    So, let's say the following is a "reliable source":http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-HATE-THE-PATRIOTS/183698620985

    they claim 100,000 people hate the patriots.  Hmmm, there are about 270 Million adults in the united states....that comes out to .05%.

    YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT - PEOPLE DO HATE THE PATRIOTS - YOU PROVED IT - I AM WRONG. BUBBA

    ---------------------------
    -------------------------
    In Response to Re: Bruschi: Patriots must pay Mankins:
    I don't need to prove an opinion, Einstein. As you can see, there are MULTIPLE people on this thread who see the exact same thing I do and agree with me. Only people with large tires on large pick ups use all caps, too. lol Insecure much?
    Posted by russgriswold


    LMAO. No, i'm definitely not insecure - I don't ever have problems admitting that I'm wrong. And the use of caps was obviously a way of expressing sarcasm - because I wanted it to be fairly explicit as to what I was really conveying about you.  Bubba
    ----------------
    -----------------
    In Response to Re: Bruschi: Patriots must pay Mankins:
    In Response to Re: Bruschi: Patriots must pay Mankins : Sure. I honestly don't care.  You seem to have an issue with the concept of a figure of speech. Saying "never" here is just that. Let me rephrase: "Generally speaking, Bruschi is slow to compliment NE as an ESPN head and is quick to bash. "Generally speaking", the "majority" of non Pats fans hate NE. Hows' that, counselor? lol
    Posted by russgriswold




     Of course you don't care...that's why you keep responding. I knew you couldn't admit you were wrong. Even your "opinion" that opinions can't be wrong is....u guessed it - wrong.

    opinion =
    a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

    There was once a time when people's opinion was that the world was flat. Guess what? they were wrong because of a dude named
    Pythagoras.

    I'm guessing that the odds would be in my favor that you can't go a month without attacking posters who have oposing views than you.

    Seriously, how hard is it to say that you're wrong? Like yer gonna lose your "street cred" if u do? Oh, my. That would be devastating. Bubba

    --------------------
    -------------------------

    Yeah, Rusty...you clearly had the better of me Laughing

    Deny, deny, deny. Your paranoia has gotten the best of you. Thinkin so many posters are after you, BB, and the Patriots. I suppose I can understand how you idolize BB sooo much - Afterall, take a look at the number of rings adorning his fingers. He's brilliant...the best ever the world has seen. He's successful, rich, a beautiful woman in his arms. What isn't there to like?

    Rusty, wouldn't it be nice to BE him? Wouldn't it be nice to become his assistant...move up the ranks...mebbe eventually become his offensive or defensive coordinator? Of course, a simpleton like me could NEVER accomplish that. However, YOU have everything you need to accomplish your dreams, Rusty. You're loyal, would prolly take less money than you're worth on the market - all the traits that BB looks for as part of his team. You've even got football smarts - even if you're statistically wrong - all your opinions are NEVER wrong - that's what really counts.  Oh, I forgot - the street cred you've built on the Patriots board. You are legendary. I've heard rumors that they are considering you for the Patriots Posters Hall of Fame - but we have to keep that quiet because we don't want SI to find out. Heaven forbid should they post your face on their cover - we don't want to jinx you.

    Now.  I'm going on a limb here.  I suppose there is indeed a small statistical chance that you and BB are actually friends.Oops, I'm wrong again. He shook your hand once and you haven't washed your hand since. You and BB have been BFFs ever since.

    But my guess is that he doesn't even know you....and that you don't know him. And guess what - he's a human being who; granted is a very good coach, makes mistakes.

    http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=233864

    Newsflash: you lost, and you lost BAD





     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?

    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    You're asleep at the wheel if you don;t see the talent in the secondary.   The idea should be does the DE group stay healthy this year.   Nothing needs to be miraculous when they have some nice talent at DE and one spot up for grabs at OLB. Tubby in Hawaii again lost. Let us know when a team is a top notch D after losing 4 Pro Bowl caliber players all at once.  
    Posted by russgriswold


    Yes, you are right.  LOL.  Rusty, obviously you are blinded by your insecurity. 

    Take a look at my post and the context in which I replied to a different poster:
    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme?:
    In Response to Re: Need to Change Spread Offense/Scheme? : +1  Eggs-actly! If all 3 produce, which is quite plausible, the attack will be very hard to stop, just using the WRs as a decoy.  At one Wes Welker, things could be very confusing for the defense.    Add a running game...lethal.  Add two productive WRs (including Moss)...just plain nasty!
    Posted by BTownExpress


    And if our pass rush miraculously improves and our secondary comes together....?  Laughing Bubba
    -------
    Your response doesn't even make any sense. The previous poster was excited about the the possibilities on the offense - saying that the offense could be lethal if the Patriots TEs and running backs could contribute in a positive way. I basically agreed with him - adding that the team will even be better if our pass rush and secondary improve.  The intent of my smiley face at the end was a way for me to share the previous poster's optimism and excitement as a fan.

    How did you respond? Hmmm, with a ton of venom and negativity.

    There are many posters/fans who felt that our Pass Rush after last season was in the top 3 needs for the team. There are many posters/fans who feel that the secondary can improve. Did the Patriots address the pass rush this off-season? Possibly - IF previous draft choices or current draft choices are coached up. None of them have accomplished anything yet. And, it's just my opinion that Tully Banta Cain and Burgess aren't elite pass rushers of the same caliber as; let's say Mathis and Freeney. Our secondary had problems last year. Do I think they have the potential of improving? Yes, I do. But, it's my opinion that they aren't there yet.  That's why i said they need to gel a little more. How is that not seeing their talent?

    Your desperate response - altho you won't admit it - was just an opportunity for you to make something out of nothing.
     

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