Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    Where do I start:

    1. Questions on Dobson: We draft a pretty good wide receiver - but how many drops did he have ... oh, zero, ok, I guess that is OK, could be better but I'm ok I guess with a 100% catch rate. But hey - he only caught 60% of the passes that targeted him - how can he drop zero passes but only catch 60% of his targets - something doesn't compute!!!

    Answer - 50% of NFL quarterbacks completed less than 60% of their passes (and these are the best of the best.) That means they missed their receiver, had the pass broken up by a defender, or intentionally threw the ball over the receiver because he was covered 40+% of the time. Take the game down to the college level and the accuracy of QBs drops - nothing to do with the receiver. The average completion percentage for all receivers at all levels ranges between 50% and 66%. the record passing completion percentage in the NFL for a career is 66% And only 35 QBs have had a higher than 60% completion percentage for their career.

    Bottom line - we got a tall, large, fast, athletic receiver, with great hands. He has missed three games in his 4 year college career with a minor knee injury (first three games in 2012) so he has good durability. He has graduated in Dec. 2012 and did not have a red-shirt year so age is 22. He was a team captain in 2012. He has no red flags. He is said to be a disciplined route runner with a high football IQ. He was the 6th receiver taken and he was taken within the range of the consensus grading. Marshall has been a source of two of our best receivers ever in Troy Brown and Randy Moss.

    He seems to be as good a match to what most people have said we need in a WR as any other receiver in the draft, and with none of the red flags present with many of the other receivers drafted before or after the pick through te first three lines. I suspect he was the highest rated receiver on the Pats board available from at the 29th pick on. We waited and got him at #59.

    My Grades - Need A+, Value A

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    Little perspective, there is a reason a guy with his size and athletic ability made it to the back of the 2nd in an top end weak WR class. He wasn't overly productive in college, had trouble gaining separation in college at times, is very raw, and didn't face top end DB's in college. Now, he's got a ton of potential but lets not pretend he's an elite talent coming out of the draft. IMO he's got high enough upside to be a 'Z' flanker with #1/2 ability and a red zone threat teams have to account for. Essentially an upgrade to Lloyd without the locker room issues. But, he also has the potential to be another Price never living up to his capability. Now in my opinion he's closer to the former then the latter but lets hold of with both sides of the extremes until he gets his first 50recs in the NFL please. BTW I love Troy but best ever? 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Little perspective, there is a reason a guy with his size and athletic ability made it to the back of the 2nd in an top end weak WR class. He wasn't overly productive in college, had trouble gaining separation in college at times, is very raw, and didn't face top end DB's in college. Now, he's got a ton of potential but lets not pretend he's an elite talent coming out of the draft. IMO he's got high enough upside to be a 'Z' flanker with #1/2 ability and a red zone threat teams have to account for. Essentially an upgrade to Lloyd without the locker room issues. But, he also has the potential to be another Price never living up to his capability. Now in my opinion he's closer to the former then the latter but lets hold of with both sides of the extremes until he gets his first 50recs in the NFL please. BTW I love Troy but best ever? 



    There is at least one big difference between Dobson and any of the previous picks you care to name: this guy also has GREAT hands....

    No, you cannt say he is the greatest when he hasnt played a down. But some people thought he was the best receiver in the draft. Whether yes or no I think he is a great pick. There are NO sure things.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    BTW I love Troy but best ever? 



    the statement was two of our best receivers ever in Troy Brown and Randy Moss. I did not say best ever, but Troy is in the Pats HOF so calling him one of the best ever seems to be supported by the voters for that HOF.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    And ... I was one of those that was really disappointed we didn't use pick 52 for Keenan Allen - seems it wasn't just the Pats that disagreed as he wasn't picked for another 24 selections at #76.

    And I am also aware of two can't miss 1st/early 2nd hyped players that are still available for the start of the 4th round in jesse williams and alex okafor. Funny that 32 team's scouting departments are so stupid as not to be able to see the value proposition that these two gems represent! Or maybe, just maybe, they all know something we don't!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    It's a good draft so far - except for the reach for the safety - that is a bit confusing.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    It's a good draft so far - except for the reach for the safety - that is a bit confusing.



    I agree - but I think BB may see Harmon as an understudy for A. Wilson who I am not expecting to be around for the duration of his 3 year deal. In that light I can understand the role, though I still see it as a reach. The timing of the pick getting delivered suggested to me there might have been a trade back that fell through and it ended up being a scramble - sort of what I think happened in the second round last year.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    i heard I think it was on Sirius NFL that 9 or 10 teams don't have the cap room for their rookies. That means a second round of cuts. I want Jessie or a NT. an OLB is ok by me.  I'm hoping there's a plan for Harmon.  Maybe BB reads this board and just pays back all his haters.  There's a neener neener squared.  

    I think its a law that to post here you have to hate BB or hate Brady or hate the D. This team could have gone with out anyone in the draft. I t hink were a lot better. Look at the crys for Rogers. Why is he slipping by everyone? SF has the power to get anyone they want. Apparently Something wrong.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    It's a good draft so far - except for the reach for the safety - that is a bit confusing.



         Agreed. Collins at #52 was a surprise, too. Let's hope that he can make use of his grand physical skills, unlike the disaster that was Shawn Crable.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    This is always an interesting couple of days on this board listening to all these folks who post as if they know more about drafting than the people who have brought us 12+ years of football teams that have either been in the superbowl or at least had a chance.

    When are all these people ever going to figure out that BB does this EVERY YEAR?? Yep, he drafts a few guys that nobody knows anything about. How is anyone shocked by this?

    Bottom line is that every pick from the 1st to the 7th is a crap shoot. Just because he isn't all hyped up on the mock experts list doesn't mean squat. Think about how many supposed big names come out of college to be complete busts.

    Isn't it pretty much ridiculous to grade how this draft went without seeing these guys actually play? Oh yeah, that's right....all the doom & gloomers know better than BB. Perhaps these folks should quit their day jobs as they are clearly better at this than a guy who continues to bring us a great team every year.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    This is always an interesting couple of days on this board listening to all these folks who post as if they know more about drafting than the people who have brought us 12+ years of football teams that have either been in the superbowl or at least had a chance.

    When are all these people ever going to figure out that BB does this EVERY YEAR?? Yep, he drafts a few guys that nobody knows anything about. How is anyone shocked by this?

    Bottom line is that every pick from the 1st to the 7th is a crap shoot. Just because he isn't all hyped up on the mock experts list doesn't mean squat. Think about how many supposed big names come out of college to be complete busts.

    Isn't it pretty much ridiculous to grade how this draft went without seeing these guys actually play? Oh yeah, that's right....all the doom & gloomers know better than BB. Perhaps these folks should quit their day jobs as they are clearly better at this than a guy who continues to bring us a great team every year.


    ^this....lol

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    This is always an interesting couple of days on this board listening to all these folks who post as if they know more about drafting than the people who have brought us 12+ years of football teams that have either been in the superbowl or at least had a chance.

    When are all these people ever going to figure out that BB does this EVERY YEAR?? Yep, he drafts a few guys that nobody knows anything about. How is anyone shocked by this?

    Bottom line is that every pick from the 1st to the 7th is a crap shoot. Just because he isn't all hyped up on the mock experts list doesn't mean squat. Think about how many supposed big names come out of college to be complete busts.

    Isn't it pretty much ridiculous to grade how this draft went without seeing these guys actually play? Oh yeah, that's right....all the doom & gloomers know better than BB. Perhaps these folks should quit their day jobs as they are clearly better at this than a guy who continues to bring us a great team every year.



    I read this post 3 times looking for at least one word to disagree with - couldn't do it.  Well said and pretty much the way I see it.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    Im back, different name, but Im back. Give the kids a chance.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Little perspective, there is a reason a guy with his size and athletic ability made it to the back of the 2nd in an top end weak WR class. He wasn't overly productive in college, had trouble gaining separation in college at times, is very raw, and didn't face top end DB's in college. Now, he's got a ton of potential but lets not pretend he's an elite talent coming out of the draft. IMO he's got high enough upside to be a 'Z' flanker with #1/2 ability and a red zone threat teams have to account for. Essentially an upgrade to Lloyd without the locker room issues. But, he also has the potential to be another Price never living up to his capability. Now in my opinion he's closer to the former then the latter but lets hold of with both sides of the extremes until he gets his first 50recs in the NFL please. BTW I love Troy but best ever? 



    You don't think Troy was one of our best receivers ever? 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    Mia, these are fine draft choices for 2,3,4 th rounders. Collins and Dobson make the team, but most likely don't see the field much in year 1. That's fine, neither did Bequette. Lets give them some time. The Rutgers guys IMO are 50/50 to make the team, having to most likely beat out Cole, Ras and Ebner to make it. Time will tell.

    the problem I have is that the Pats traded a first for these guys. I would have preferred to take a shot that the first turns into a playmaker. I am fine with Cole as the 5th CB. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Little perspective, there is a reason a guy with his size and athletic ability made it to the back of the 2nd in an top end weak WR class. He wasn't overly productive in college, had trouble gaining separation in college at times, is very raw, and didn't face top end DB's in college. Now, he's got a ton of potential but lets not pretend he's an elite talent coming out of the draft. IMO he's got high enough upside to be a 'Z' flanker with #1/2 ability and a red zone threat teams have to account for. Essentially an upgrade to Lloyd without the locker room issues. But, he also has the potential to be another Price never living up to his capability. Now in my opinion he's closer to the former then the latter but lets hold of with both sides of the extremes until he gets his first 50recs in the NFL please. BTW I love Troy but best ever? 

     



    You don't think Troy was one of our best receivers ever? 

     



    depends how you define best ever. He's one of my all time favorite Pats and he certainly was one of the most consistent but most of his numbers come from longevity. When I think best ever Moss for that short stint, Welker (600+ recs over 6 yrs) might go down as the best,  Glenn it pains me to say that but he was one of the best WRs in the entire league for five years, Fryar is up there too, and of course Stanley Morgan. Troy is top 10 all time with the Pats but I'm not sure I'd put him top 5 and certainly not top 3 which I reserve for best ever (Morgan, Moss, Welker)

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    Well I think why I was so down on the pick is that before the draft when I watched all the top prospects tape, he was the guy who I thought was the least like what we usually go for. We usually go for the quick twitch types, who run a top 3 cone drill or short shuttle. The type of guy who can take a short receiver screen and blaze by a guy or two. Dobson doesn't look like that type to me. What I saw from watching his stuff was a guy that took time to get up to speed and looked a little stiff. I saw a guy who double clutched the ball at times and didn't always secure it cleanly. I saw a guy that had 10 yards of sideline space and yet didn't/couldn't get his feet down in bounds on a catch.

    Now I'm sure he's better than what I saw or else we wouldn't of drafted him that high. I just read how this guy has the best hands in college football, so the tape I saw must of been just a small portion of the entire story. Plus I admit I was expecting a different type of player all together at that spot. The other guy they drafted also looks much different than what I expect from the position for us...he reminds me of Bolden. A guy that is built like a running back and takes some time to get up to speed. These aren't the guys I'm used to them drafting, so it's a bit exciting in one sense...while surprising in another. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    Troy was without a doubt better than Glenn.  Glenn had more talent, unquestionably, but Brown had more production.  Brown's 3rd down receiving talents were the best we ever had.  Glenn only had 3 good season with the Pats ('96, '99, '00), and Brown's 3 year run as the #1 ('00-'02) was every bit as good.

    Add in Brown's return ability and 2-way play, and Glenn can't even carry his jock.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    Troy was without a doubt better than Glenn.  Glenn had more talent, unquestionably, but Brown had more production.  Brown's 3rd down receiving talents were the best we ever had.  Glenn only had 3 good season with the Pats ('96, '99, '00), and Brown's 3 year run as the #1 ('00-'02) was every bit as good.

    Add in Brown's return ability and 2-way play, and Glenn can't even carry his jock.



    Whether Glenn or Troy was the 5th best WR is nit picking really but would you put Troy over Moss, Welker, Morgan, Fryar? Heck you can even toss Colclough in there too. For his day Colclough was amazing as a receiver, even better then Cappelletti I say

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Mia, these are fine draft choices for 2,3,4 th rounders. Collins and Dobson make the team, but most likely don't see the field much in year 1. That's fine, neither did Bequette. Lets give them some time. The Rutgers guys IMO are 50/50 to make the team, having to most likely beat out Cole, Ras and Ebner to make it. Time will tell.

    the problem I have is that the Pats traded a first for these guys. I would have preferred to take a shot that the first turns into a playmaker. I am fine with Cole as the 5th CB. 



    OK - so put your money down. Which guaranteed starter did you want the Pats to take with #29. Give us ONE name, and lets track him over the course of the year. And we can compare his production to Collins, Ryans, and Boyce who are the three players taken with the picks we got.

    It will not obviously be a perfect comparison because they will be playing on different teams, and without the extra picks, the Pats strategy would probably have been different. But its as close as we can get.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Negativity is rampant on this board! Just a little perspective please.

    Not perfect at all.  The ONE name is a sample size of one, compared to a sample size of three. 

    The measure of a player is what percentage of each victory did he buy.  That's tough to measure.  Safeties in particular just sit in the backfield and only get highlighted when they mess up.  Boyce, the one guy who might score points, probably won't see the field the first year.  He's a fourth rounder. 

     

     
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