NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    mayo is a pretty good tackler in a league where it seems to be a lost art. he isnt a playmaker, but he is a solid pro, and a guy you want on your team.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is mayo right here.  But I will add the he is an elite tackler.  Not sure I've ever seen the guy miss more than once....

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    The guy that leads the NFL in tackles will almost always be the best linebacker on the worst defense.  If the Pats were getting 3 and outs then he couldn't get as many tackles if they were letting teams run 20 play drives.  Mayo gets a chance to grab a dozen tackles every drive, most other guys don't.  I want Mayo to lead the team in tackles, not the NFL- it's a bad sign for a defense.

     

    There was a time when we thought every defensive player was great because no matter who they plugged in they were great.  Tebucky, Troy Brown, whoever.  Now it's the offense, 7th round QB at WR, offense still hums, play Gronk, don't play Gronk- still score 50.

    IMO its all due to the talent level getting high enough for everyone to look good, or low enough for everyone to look bad.  I guarantee you some of the players on the Pats offense only look good because they are so stacked.  And some of the players on the defense only look bad because they are so bad.

    I think Mayo is good, but along with Wilfork hes been the only guy consistently good.  2 guys playing well with 9 inconsistent, oft injured guys next to them will make them look bad.  Maybe if Jones, Spikes, Cunningham, McCourty, Dennard, and Talib can bring something we will see everyone on defense start looking good again.  But those guys I mentioned have only started emerging this year and half of them are injured constantly.  Unless these guys start showing something I just can't see a way for Mayo to be a household name guy.  He could be Larry Fitzgerald with no QB.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    I have no idea what what you mean by "fantasy stats", like most I don't waste my time with that nonsense.  To call me rude and hateful is Completely out of line.

    Listen, I don't dislike the guy, never said he sucks or stinks, never called for his benching or replacement.  He's a top 10 pick that was DROY.  He has never played at the level of his rookie season since.

    Look there are posters who are very pleased and content with his level of play and that's great.  The rest of us see room for improvement in his play.  Hell if he played for the Jets I'm sure Rusty and all his accounts would be calling him a bust between Brady bashing post.

    I just want to win Super Bowls and Better LB play will increase those chances.  I see lots of room for improvement in Mayo's game.  You don't and that's fine, either way it won't change our lives any.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I have no idea what what you mean by "fantasy stats", like most I don't waste my time with that nonsense.  To call me rude and hateful is Completely out of line.

    Listen, I don't dislike the guy, never said he sucks or stinks, never called for his benching or replacement.  He's a top 10 pick that was DROY.  He has never played at the level of his rookie season since.

    Look there are posters who are very pleased and content with his level of play and that's great.  The rest of us see room for improvement in his play.  Hell if he played for the Jets I'm sure Rusty and all his accounts would be calling him a bust between Brady bashing post.

    I just want to win Super Bowls and Better LB play will increase those chances.  I see lots of room for improvement in Mayo's game.  You don't and that's fine, either way it won't change our lives any.

    [/QUOTE]

    What do you mean he hasnt played as good since his rookie year t-cal??? His stats after his rookie year are just as good if not better than his rookie year. Dont get me wrong i too would just like a bit more from jerod but Your arguement doesnt hold water.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    And by the way T-cal you where wondering what and assist is??? For example: a guy stands up a player but cant get him down, another player comes along and brings him down. Thats an assisted tackle.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I have no idea what what you mean by "fantasy stats", like most I don't waste my time with that nonsense.  To call me rude and hateful is Completely out of line.

    Listen, I don't dislike the guy, never said he sucks or stinks, never called for his benching or replacement.  He's a top 10 pick that was DROY.  He has never played at the level of his rookie season since.

    Look there are posters who are very pleased and content with his level of play and that's great.  The rest of us see room for improvement in his play.  Hell if he played for the Jets I'm sure Rusty and all his accounts would be calling him a bust between Brady bashing post.

    I just want to win Super Bowls and Better LB play will increase those chances.  I see lots of room for improvement in Mayo's game.  You don't and that's fine, either way it won't change our lives any.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point.  I think more fans on this board would call him overrated if he were not a Pat.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    • BosoxJoe5
    • Posts: 3146
    • First: 06/05/2008
    • Last: 12/01/2012

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     Your tone is much less annoying then his. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Hmmmm what other poster was just talking about "tone" on this thread?

    LMAO another Rusty fake account exposed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The guy that leads the NFL in tackles will almost always be the best linebacker on the worst defense.  If the Pats were getting 3 and outs then he couldn't get as many tackles if they were letting teams run 20 play drives.  Mayo gets a chance to grab a dozen tackles every drive, most other guys don't.  I want Mayo to lead the team in tackles, not the NFL- it's a bad sign for a defense.

     

    There was a time when we thought every defensive player was great because no matter who they plugged in they were great.  Tebucky, Troy Brown, whoever.  Now it's the offense, 7th round QB at WR, offense still hums, play Gronk, don't play Gronk- still score 50.

    IMO its all due to the talent level getting high enough for everyone to look good, or low enough for everyone to look bad.  I guarantee you some of the players on the Pats offense only look good because they are so stacked.  And some of the players on the defense only look bad because they are so bad.

    I think Mayo is good, but along with Wilfork hes been the only guy consistently good.  2 guys playing well with 9 inconsistent, oft injured guys next to them will make them look bad.  Maybe if Jones, Spikes, Cunningham, McCourty, Dennard, and Talib can bring something we will see everyone on defense start looking good again.  But those guys I mentioned have only started emerging this year and half of them are injured constantly.  Unless these guys start showing something I just can't see a way for Mayo to be a household name guy.  He could be Larry Fitzgerald with no QB.

    [/QUOTE]

    I can probably buy this. I look back at his rookie year and just like tcal I think that is his best year by far...that was also the year he was surrounded by the most talent. So perhaps if he had a Seymore and Ty Warren in front of him and a Bruschi to his right, things would be much different. Now what I see is a guy that is running all over the place in coverage and not doing well at it. I see a guy getting locked on blocks that he shouldn't be. I see a guy that was getting hurt two/three years ago and being replaced by Gary Guyton, who didn't play much different. 

    Hopefully tomorrow when I watch the defense I won't see this guy blowing coverages or arriving late on run plays. I really wonder if he is as good as people say he is...why he can't seem to make a difference on a defense that sorely needs it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The guy that leads the NFL in tackles will almost always be the best linebacker on the worst defense.  If the Pats were getting 3 and outs then he couldn't get as many tackles if they were letting teams run 20 play drives.  Mayo gets a chance to grab a dozen tackles every drive, most other guys don't.  I want Mayo to lead the team in tackles, not the NFL- it's a bad sign for a defense.

     [QUOTE]

    Too bad there's no stat for quality of tackles made. If you're a ILB/MLB and you make a tackle in the gap for a one or two yard gain, that's a different thing than chasing down the ballcarrier from the side (or from behind) and the play goes for six or seven.  Some tackle stats are padded by those type of plays and they don't give any indication of whether a given tackle was a good play.  If an MLB gets shoved back by the guard but still manages to make the tackle, that isn't anything to be proud of.

    Mayo is tied for 14th in tackles (with CB Cortland Finnegan) if you take out assists, which I think is a better indication of the individual's play.  Willis is 8th, so I'm not sure what that says about your bad defense theory.  My eye test tells me Mayo is above average, but not elite.  When he's in position to make a play, he generally makes the play. He's not the stoutest and sometimes he gets pushed aside. But not so often that it's a huge problem.  He's OK in coverage, but there just aren't many ILBs who can keep up with the better TEs and RBs and he struggles in that area like just about everybody.

    Overall I see him as among the top 10 ILBs in the game but not in the class of a Willis or say an Urlacher of a few years ago. A solid player.  Anyway, that's my amateur scouting report.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    • BosoxJoe5
    • Posts: 3146
    • First: 06/05/2008
    • Last: 12/01/2012

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     Your tone is much less annoying then his. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Hmmmm what other poster was just talking about "tone" on this thread?

    LMAO another Rusty fake account exposed.

    [/QUOTE]


    Dude I have been on this board since 2005, and had my post count reset in 2008 during the switch over in June/July. Watch who you are calling out young blood.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_hme4bChWw

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And by the way T-cal you where wondering what and assist is??? For example: a guy stands up a player but cant get him down, another player comes along and brings him down. Thats an assisted tackle.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm pretty much the only person posting the limited available stats to support my opinion xX.  If your not aware each team keeps the tackle stats for it's players and the NFL uses these numbers. It seems we have a stat keeper who is very liberal when it comes to the assist category judging by how Mayo's assist totals dwarf everyone else's.  Like Muzwell says, if you strip away the assists then Mayo is 14 in tackles and not even in the top 85 in tackles for losses. 

    I just hope he improves.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    • BosoxJoe5
    • Posts: 3146
    • First: 06/05/2008
    • Last: 12/01/2012

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     Your tone is much less annoying then his. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Hmmmm what other poster was just talking about "tone" on this thread?

    LMAO another Rusty fake account exposed.

    [/QUOTE]


    Dude I have been on this board since 2005, and had my post count reset in 2008 during the switch over in June/July. Watch who you are calling out young blood.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ouch, watch the tone.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    Well ricky glad to see you made it all they way through a Post without an insult.  It was boring 5 years ago when MVPkilla called everyone a moron and it still is.  I like the whole Stamp thing, though it correlates to nothing skill set wise, it sure reads nice.  I'm not going to boil down the numbers you list compaired to other LB's, after all it is page 3 of a thread and we all know a thread is dead at 3.  Plus no one is changing their minds at this point anyway.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well ricky glad to see you made it all they way through a Post without an insult.  It was boring 5 years ago when MVPkilla called everyone a moron and it still is.  I like the whole Stamp thing, though it correlates to nothing skill set wise, it sure reads nice.  I'm not going to boil down the numbers you list compaired to other LB's, after all it is page 3 of a thread and we all know a thread is dead at 3.  Plus no one is changing their minds at this point anyway.

    [/QUOTE]


    Here is your problem, your have a line in the sand if I disagree with you I am a fool. Your arguement is based the fact that you don't like asst. tackles. You must hate half sacks too... You have a linebacker who play in a scheme were his job not attack the line of scrimage which hurts his sack totals. If the Pats went back to a 3-4 and used him as an inside LB you would see those stats you want. To disregard how a player plays in a scheme is foolish at best. Mayo is having his best year yet and if you think he is over rated you can see the forest for the trees.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Some people are just not that into him.

    [/QUOTE]


    It's due to their lack of understanding BBs schemes. There's a reason Mayo is calling the plays on D----there's a lot more to football than meets the eye. If you look at Vince Wilforks tackle count you would say he suks? But the beast eats up the middle taking on 2 offensive lineman on most downs. BB plays a D swcheme that makes the other teams offense march down the field, figuring at some point the oppossing offense will scew up----kind of obvious if you've been paying attention.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Some people are just not that into him.

    [/QUOTE]


    It's due to their lack of understanding BBs schemes. There's a reason Mayo is calling the plays on D----there's a lot more to football than meets the eye. If you look at Vince Wilforks tackle count you would say he suks? But the beast eats up the middle taking on 2 offensive lineman on most downs. BB plays a D swcheme that makes the other teams offense march down the field, figuring at some point the oppossing offense will scew up----kind of obvious if you've been paying attention.

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you really think in the grand sheme of things this is what Belichick is TRYING to do? Let an oppossing offense march down the field (eat up clock) and then hope they screw it up? For all the people that say that is what he wants and is trying to accomplish...I've never heard him allude to that.

    I can't picture that being his goal - it's too risky - why let a team go up and down the field on us all game in hopes that they will eventually screw it up (get a false start, holding call, miss a open receiver, drop a pass, fumble, tipped ball, too many men, delay of game, etc)? I mean it does seem to work out this way, but I would think he would rather have a defense that could stop someone before they reach the fifty yard line and aren't in some sort of scoring position.  I think his main goal is not to give up the big play, or let people get behind you - it's just that the players on defense are making it look like our goal is to let the oppossing team's offense march up and down the field.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Some people are just not that into him.

    [/QUOTE]


    It's due to their lack of understanding BBs schemes. There's a reason Mayo is calling the plays on D----there's a lot more to football than meets the eye. If you look at Vince Wilforks tackle count you would say he suks? But the beast eats up the middle taking on 2 offensive lineman on most downs. BB plays a D swcheme that makes the other teams offense march down the field, figuring at some point the oppossing offense will scew up----kind of obvious if you've been paying attention.

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you really think in the grand sheme of things this is what Belichick is TRYING to do? Let an oppossing offense march down the field (eat up clock) and then hope they screw it up? For all the people that say that is what he wants and is trying to accomplish...I've never heard him allude to that.

    I can't picture that being his goal - it's too risky - why let a team go up and down the field on us all game in hopes that they will eventually screw it up (get a false start, holding call, miss a open receiver, drop a pass, fumble, tipped ball, too many men, delay of game, etc)? I mean it does seem to work out this way, but I would think he would rather have a defense that could stop someone before they reach the fifty yard line and aren't in some sort of scoring position.  I think his main goal is not to give up the big play, or let people get behind you - it's just that the players on defense are making it look like our goal is to let the oppossing team's offense march up and down the field.

    [/QUOTE]

    Belichick doesn't let a team "march down the field (eat up clock) and then hope they screw it up," c'mon man you're smarter than that.  Belichick defense's have always been bend don't break, they've historically tightened up in the red zone.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Some people are just not that into him.

    [/QUOTE]


    It's due to their lack of understanding BBs schemes. There's a reason Mayo is calling the plays on D----there's a lot more to football than meets the eye. If you look at Vince Wilforks tackle count you would say he suks? But the beast eats up the middle taking on 2 offensive lineman on most downs. BB plays a D swcheme that makes the other teams offense march down the field, figuring at some point the oppossing offense will scew up----kind of obvious if you've been paying attention.

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you really think in the grand sheme of things this is what Belichick is TRYING to do? Let an oppossing offense march down the field (eat up clock) and then hope they screw it up? For all the people that say that is what he wants and is trying to accomplish...I've never heard him allude to that.

    I can't picture that being his goal - it's too risky - why let a team go up and down the field on us all game in hopes that they will eventually screw it up (get a false start, holding call, miss a open receiver, drop a pass, fumble, tipped ball, too many men, delay of game, etc)? I mean it does seem to work out this way, but I would think he would rather have a defense that could stop someone before they reach the fifty yard line and aren't in some sort of scoring position.  I think his main goal is not to give up the big play, or let people get behind you - it's just that the players on defense are making it look like our goal is to let the oppossing team's offense march up and down the field.

    [/QUOTE]

    Belichick doesn't let a team "march down the field (eat up clock) and then hope they screw it up," c'mon man you're smarter than that.  Belichick defense's have always been bend don't break, they've historically tightened up in the red zone.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think that's pretty much what I said...that Belichicks's defensive scheme doesn't allow offenses to march up and down the field by design, but do to personnel that has been happening. I'm definitely not saying this is what he wants to happen - have a team drive the length of the field, to finally shoot themselves in the foot. I would think he wants his defense to get off the field and let his offense get the ball back.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    I would say Mayo is in the top 3rd of MLBs across the league, easily. I do not, however, think of him as elite at this point.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: NESN weighs in on the Mayo debate

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    Belichick doesn't let a team "march down the field (eat up clock) and then hope they screw it up," c'mon man you're smarter than that.  Belichick defense's have always been bend don't break, they've historically tightened up in the red zone.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think that's pretty much what I said...that Belichicks's defensive scheme doesn't allow offenses to march up and down the field by design, but do to personnel that has been happening. I'm definitely not saying this is what he wants to happen - have a team drive the length of the field, to finally shoot themselves in the foot. I would think he wants his defense to get off the field and let his offense get the ball back.

    [/QUOTE]

    There are a couple of dynamics at play as I see it. New England has a solid defense against the run, and many teams they have faced have been behind in the score.  So teams are generally forced to pass against the Pats which means a lot of yards against, but also leads to a lot of opportunities for the defense to create turnovers. 

    What is the objective a of a defense, is it to limit yards or points?  They've not been good at the former, but have generally been very good at the latter.  They're also improving, and the goal should always be to be at your best in the postseason, and they seem to be trending positively.  Third down defense is still a concern.

     
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