New and improved BB the GM poll.

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from yakv. Show yakv's posts

    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    Not SO High On BB the GM as the coach .
    BB the GM gives BB the coach all kinds of challenges
    like Ocho and all the cast off CB.
    would rather have BB the GM give BB the coach
    some talent to work with.

    and welcome back babe,
    you are not alone in criticism , cant be blind forever
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    Texas, I feel like a lot of the guys we use as evidence of Belichick's poor drafting, was much less his fault, as it was the fault of the player.

    As evidenced with Maroney, Butler, Jackson and Tate, these players wouldn't have succeeded anywhere. They went to other teams and continued to fall flat on their face. All the talent was there, but evidently the work-ethic wasn't. You can't blame Belichick for taking the most talented player available. Most teams likely would have done the same, and as fans, that's really all we can ask for.

    I still like the Dowling pick over either Sheard or Reed. No guarantee that either of those players would have had success in our system. Furthermore, for the short time that Dowling was healthy, he looked like a shutdown CB. He covered Brandon Marshall man-for-man on three consecutive goalline plays and shutdown him down each time. If the guy can stay healthy (and that's a big IF), he will pay off big time, and will be another great pick by Belichick.

    Again, hindsight is always 20-20. There'll be hits and misses, but so long as the ratio is at or around 50/50, and so long as there are consistently solid FA acquisitions, I don't think we can complain. For every miss there has been a hit, and there have been multiple FA's who have made an impact.

    I personally think Belichick has been a great GM for us.
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    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    I voted "good" because it's not like we haven't been able to do some damage in the post season. BB does seem to be good at picking guys who want to play together and no one in the league is better at cutting his losses on a bad signing than BB. That matters a lot as mistakes are going to be made. 

    Bill's biggest weakness is that he's too much of a rigid "value investor" - he's always trying to buy low by finding scrap heap bargains and post-injury dice rolls. Sometimes you have to pay a premium. The struggles to find certain players, such as good wide receivers and linebackers, also reflect on BB the coach because if the system is so complicated few people can learn it, that's a problem. 

    So Babe while you downgrade BB the GM and not the coach I appy a bit more blame to the coaching "systems" as well. 
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    Certainly more options in this one.  I voted and I still maintain he's 'great'.  Please note that 'great' and 'perfect' are not the same and that this is, after all, an opinion poll. 

    I will be interested in the outcome.
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    I voted average. I think he only has the title of GM but does not operate as one, instead more as a coach whem choosing his players. BB likes to be challenge, he picks more projects type players than " sure thing-cant-miss-prospects " who will let themselfs be coached by him and buy into his system without any selfishness. Those players will work their butts off without questioning his demands, give their 100% effort on the field, leave their heart out there on everyplay* because they all have something to prove, and care less about their rise to stardom). But I think BB the GM goes by what the scouts tells him more often than not, so I could put some blame there as well on the hits and misses. But as a coach who gets the best out of all his players, talented or not, he's excellent.
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    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    In Response to Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.:
    In Response to Re: New and improved BB the GM poll. :
    Posted by TexasPat3

    Tyron is the only player to have had some success after his departure from NE.
    from a very long list of misses/cuts.
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    I voted Above Average because although there have been failures in Drafting, as GM he must be also held responsible for managing the Salary Cap for which the Patriots have done a great job.  

    With very few exceptions they rarely overpay players ie; Raiders, Redskins, Eagles etc.  But back to the weak spot which is drafting, BB tends to always leave many options open while shuffling the deck with Draft Picks. Unfortunately the execution during the draft selection process hasn't been great.  However, he has a built in Fudge Factor with this problem because of his ability to get a lot out of marginal players.  

    So managing the cap, the number of draft picks and his fudge factor (coaching ability) are for the most part able to over come the failures within the actual draft selection. 

    Although the execution of drafting Brady in the 6th Round wasn't too shabby.   :)
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    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    I put above average. His value approach certainly found value in Gronk and Hernandez. Last year's draft was underwhelming for me.

    My dissapointment with BB is that he spent on Brandon Lloyd instead of spending on a defensive player instead.

    The offense next season looks like its been upgraded of course OL snafus can happen.

    The defense looks like the SOS again this year and it would appear there's no money for a big splash. I'm not sure why they're clearing cap space except that they might be looking to sign Welker.

    No one talks about the 4-3 vs the 3-4 but that isn't some trivial change of alignment; those are specific defenses that require special skill sets. If they stick with the 4-3 then they need a DE which doesn't look like its happening; if they go to the 3-4 they need an OLB who's strong off the edge and they're even rarer.

    No matter what happens in the draft this team better score a lot next year.
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    He's a great coach, but I voted that he was a good GM.  Fact is, we are Super Bowl contenders every year, and the GM plays a big role in that.  That being said, BB struck out swinging on three straight drafts (2006-2008, though we did come away with Mayo and Slater), with the 2009 class starting to fizzle out.  For a period of time his work in FA was a little shaky too (Thomas, Springs, F. Taylor, C. Baker etc).

    That being said, he has done well in the past couple drafts (Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, Mesko, Deaderick, Solder, Ridley), and has always been good at bringing in underrated players who play surprisingly well (Ninkovich, Anderson, Carter, S. Moore etc). To become great, he'll need to improve the success rate in the draft, and keep up the good work in Free Agency.  For an "A" grade this offseason, he still needs to address the secondary and improve the pass rush.
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    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    It's tough to evaluate these GMs in my opinion. I just think the whole thing is too based upon luck/chance. An injury can ruin a guy picking the players and that's a shame really, because he has no control over so and so top 10 pick blowing out his knee five minutes into his first practice. Bobby Grier had a two year run where he was considered pretty darn good in league circles, then he turned into a laughing stock.
    Pioli is a guy that never played a down of professional football (or coached it), but some good drafts, coupled with Bill Belichick transformed into a multi million dollar NFL power broker. For all that has gone right for Pioli, if his team doesn't start winning soon he could end up like Grier if BB doesn't catch him on his way down.

    Then you get some teams that hold onto players that were drafted based out of need and fear, not so much because the guy actually is a good player, but because there's no one else to replace him or the GM wants the coach to keep playing him. It's happened here lately (more out of need, because Bill answers to no one).

    I'd rank Bill somewhere in the good category, although the last 5 years have been average at best...probably to just bad luck. Bill has the luxury of having the best coach and QB in the business helping his GM's resume. 
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    I voted good because BB as a GM and coach does get them in the playoffs every year and he does fill in the roster with depth through free agency. But he would be great if the draft misses didn't happen. As mentioned by Greg Bedard in yesterday's Sunday Football Notes, the Patriots were busy filling in their secondary players when everyone else was focused on the high priced free agents. So if some of the misses had worked out we could have focused more on the defense. We can't help wonder if they had drafted the right players where they might be and how many Super Bowls they might have won. Easy for us to say because we don't have to worry about the cap and everything else that goes into it.

    On the bright side as Babe mentioned is that this year BB might change his drafting strategy because of the Rookie Salary Scale. Years past he would trade out and one can't help but think this and the value system he uses has caused some of the misses. It will be interesting to see how this years draft turns out.

    Here's a link to Bedard's article:
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    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    There needs to be some clarification. Are we rating him compared to perfect or are we rating him compared to his peers?

    Compared to perfect, he is average at best. Compared to his peers, he is great.
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    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    I really can NOT see how anyone can objectively say he is only average. I say this because, while he has missed on several draft picks he has also made many great ones, has done a generally good job with FAs and trades. He has done a GREAT job with the cap - best in the league that way.  He puts together teams that are at or near the top of the league in record essentially every year. He has put together teams that have been to FIVE SBs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has put together teams that have won 3 SBs!!!

    For each mistake you list you can list good moves. Better than meaningless lists how about evaluating the whole team. Superior O line - where it all starts on O. Great QB. Decent RBs - and if Vereen pans out maybe very good RBs. Best TE group in the history of the game. Great slot WR. With Lloyd a pretty good other WR starting. Depth ALLLL around on O. A solid core in the center of the D with Vinny, Mayo, Spikes and Chung. A handful of other decent players on the D. Good K. Good cover teams. Youth...

    They just barely missed winning the SB and have already made signifcant improvements and have not even yet used their 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. THey have plenty of cap space.

    So it you look at record, at playoff record, at SBs or simply at the roster over the years, BB has gathered together a whole heck of a lot of talent - and he has regularly done a superlative job with the cap. And don't sell that short in the cap era.
    Has he missed on some picks. Of course. But where he has missed he has found ways to make up for it with talent elsewhere - including hitting on later draft picks. And he has done this while always starting with late draft slots.

    So go ahead and list this bad pick or that one but how about ALL the other players he has accumulated over the years in order to put together teams that always are at or near the top of the league. Who else has done that? No one like him in the cap era that is for sure.
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    Re: New and improved BB the GM poll.

    Lol this poll.

    Okay 3 people listed him as Below average.
    That means there are 3 people who think there are at least 16 teams with better Gm's.

    Please man up, if you voted below average list the 16 Gm's better then BB

    3 people listed him as average, same situation list even 10 gm's better then BB.

    Great and good are both way ahead, with above average tailing by a half dozen votes.

    Personally id put him in the top 3, with 5 being on his worst year. Id list that as great
    1-3: great
    4-7: good
    8-12: above average
    13-18: average
    Everything else below average.

    If you can HONESTLY say you think there are between 6 and 18 teams doing a better job then BB is doing i have to question your mental health state.
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