New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

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    New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    Offseason Moves:
  2. Patriots sign WR Brandon Lloyd
  3. Patriots sign DE/OLB Trevor Scott
  4. Patriots sign WR Anthony Gonzalez
  5. Patriots re-sign C Dan Connolly
  6. Patriots sign SS Steve Gregory
  7. Patriots re-sign WR/S Matt Slater
  8. Patriots sign DE/DT Jonathan Fanene
  9. Patriots re-sign OLB Tracy White
  10. Patriots franchise WR Wes Welker

As far as the offense goes, it looks like we have the tools we will need to get us over the hump.  Lloyd should be able to do what we all hoped Ocho would do last year.  He's not that much of a deep threat, but he will greatly help stretch the field and has some great hands and route running ability.  I'd like to see BJGE get re-signed, but if it doesn't work out I'd like to see us target a big body that can move the chains for short yardage plays.  Another TE to backup what we have, as well as giving an option to move Hernandez to WR, at least on specific plays.  And lastly, a dominant offensive lineman that can really open up the run would be huge. 

As for defense, it looks like we have some solid rotational players being added to the defensive line.  What we really need there is a space eating pocket collapsing player to play alongside Wilfork.  This will probably be addressed early in the draft.  Although we picked up a Safety in Gregory, he's had trouble staying on the field and we need someone who can complement Chung and offer strong coverage skills.  Lastly we need a solid corner.  DMac and Dowling are 2 very big question marks as it stands.  

Thoughts on what should be done from here?  Any specific players come to mind? 

 

 

 

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from I sat on your toilet. Show I sat on your toilet's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    #1 I'd like them to try and get Webb from Baltimore. I could care less about Wallace at this point.

    #2 Resign BJGE for the right price.

    #3 Safety help. I'm not a fan of Landry but there isn't much out there now. Hopefully they can draft Barron or Smith in the draft. They should still add help through FA. Is James Sanders available?
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    I'd love to see Webb here, but I think he might be a little rich for our current tastes. 
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    The Webb thing makes little sense. And, if you did pay through the nose for the trendy CB of 2011 (Tramon Williams was it in 2010), you wouldn't need a Safety in FA anymore or in the draft.  BB would just move McCourty to FS next to Chung and build from there.

    It's pretty clear BB won't be doing that based on the way he's approaching FA so far.

    Also, I can't get past your "dominant OL" point. We pay Logie Mankins 9 million per year, Dan Connolly just ourperformed him again, Light had his best year at age 32, Solder looks legit at Tackle and Brian Waters is likely returning after his stellar season.

    Cannon looks the part to me as well.  I just cannot fathom what else you want here when you have Tom Brady behind that O Line.  

    We won 3 SBs with different variations of O Lines that weren't as talented as this one.

    I would look at C/G in the draft to develop behing Connolly.  Also, would like Tackle to do the same for backing up the eventual and likely Solder/Cannon duo, if Vollmer continues to have injury problems.





     
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    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    Yes its a nice dream but could be too difficult to get him here but I'd rather them invest the money in him over Wallace if they were to
     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    NE would need to trade up to get Barron.  I don't see him going past 20.  The Jets will probably take him at 16.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Cock_Landers. Show Cock_Landers's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.:
    [QUOTE]#1 I'd like them to try and get Webb from Baltimore. I could care less about Wallace at this point. #2 Resign BJGE for the right price. #3 Safety help. I'm not a fan of Landry but there isn't much out there now. Hopefully they can draft Barron or Smith in the draft. They should still add help through FA. Is James Sanders available?
    Posted by I sat on your toilet[/QUOTE]Landry is actually a hell of a safety when healthy. Id take him in a heartbeat. Ive watched him play alot with Washington and he can be a game changer in the secondary........again when healthy. But if we do pick him up, we would be pretty much set at safety and allow us to use a high draft pick for a cornerback.

       Linebacker: We are set inside I feel already, but could use one pick on an outside LB for depth.
     
     Defensive line,.....this is where I want to see a high pick used. WIlfork and Love actually make a good combo. But I would like us to get another end. This will most likely happen in draft in 1st or second round.

     Offensive line: Honestly, if Waters comes back,and Koppen ends up resigning then we are set and LOADED on the line. People forget about Marcus Cannon. He is going to be special. Big,strong and surprisingly smart. Nate SOldier will now have a full year under his belt, to gain strength, actually have a camp under him, and already has a year being put in the fire which he did really well actually. VOllmer should be healthy this year and hopefully his back issue is straightened out. Light might be back for another year.....I know he doesnt want to go anywhere else. Again, I think the O line is going to be set and very deep. I only see us picking up maybe one O-lineman late in the draft. Maybe 2 at most with late round picks.

      WR: We are pretty much set here and actually pretty deep. Id like to see Branch and Ocho back(yes I want to see him back) for cheap money. I dont see us wasting any picks on WR's in the draft.

      TE: Pretty much set here too, dont see the Patriots picking up a TE this year(though you never know with them, lol)

      RB: I do see us picking up another RB, especially if BJGE does not return. I would bet our 3rd rounder goes towards one.


       Honestly, we are LOADED, not many holes to fill. I actually do see the Patriots trading out one or 2 of their picks this year towards next...........again. No point in using a pick if the value for this year isnt there in the areas we need help in. NE has a good system in the draft even though they have swung and missed on a few higher pick prospects in the last few years. They still have made alot of picks that MORE than worked out overall.

     
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    Gotta go defense now. Our O is loaded.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    Still need a big back, a 3rd TE, and D help.  Another DE/DT (draft) and options at OLB/DE hope both carter and anderson are back.  On the OL like to see another OG/C.

    At CB I like what they have, I think DM will bounce back and Dowling should be healthy.  Not sure I go with Webb as a rental option, they won't be willing to pay the big contract he'll be looking for.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.:
    [QUOTE]The Webb thing makes little sense. And, if you did pay through the nose for the trendy CB of 2011 (Tramon Williams was it in 2010), you wouldn't need a Safety in FA anymore or in the draft.  BB would just move McCourty to FS next to Chung and build from there. It's pretty clear BB won't be doing that based on the way he's approaching FA so far. Also, I can't get past your "dominant OL" point. We pay Logie Mankins 9 million per year, Dan Connolly just ourperformed him again, Light had his best year at age 32, Solder looks legit at Tackle and Brian Waters is likely returning after his stellar season. Cannon looks the part to me as well.  I just cannot fathom what else you want here when you have Tom Brady behind that O Line.   We won 3 SBs with different variations of O Lines that weren't as talented as this one. I would look at C/G in the draft to develop behing Connolly.  Also, would like Tackle to do the same for backing up the eventual and likely Solder/Cannon duo, if Vollmer continues to have injury problems.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    How would getting Webb make little sense? It would actually make perfect sense and a typical BB move:

    1) It takes a top end CB away from a AFC rival who will most likely contend with the Pats for the AFCC

    2) Williams had a great 2011 season following his 2010 season. Shut down corners are extremely hard to find so getting a shot at a top 10 CB should not be taken lightly.

    3) Given Webb is still rising and has only had 1 year of success you could argue giving him a below market value for a RFA (ala Welker). This provides tremendous value given how crazy contract for top end CB's have escalated recently

    4) BB likes to hedge his bets with his starters. Having Webb, Ras, McCourty in a rotational role keeps them fresh and has 3 starting caliber players for 2 positions (depth BB loves to build if capable). It also protects him in worst case scenario's in which Ras continues to have injury issues or if the FS position becomes an issue again and McCourty needs to move back over. This allows BB to have max flexibility

    5) The weakness of the S class in this years draft makes having the flexibility of moving a McCourty to FS a bigger need. As you pointed out Barron most likely won't be there and past that would you say any of the S's in the draft are better then what McCourty might bring?

    6) Webb is still young and coming from a complex secondary scheme that runs similar groupings as the Pats do.

    All in all if Webb comes in at 50-75% of the cost as Carr or Finnegan in terms of contract then this would be an extremely BB type of move. Hurt your AFC rival, get a below market value deal for a upcoming player who hasn't fully entered their prime yet, and it's in a position of need for the Pats that produces great depth with maximum flexibility options.

    BTW if Webb turns out to be like Williams I think we'd all be extremely happy. Over the last 4 years Williams has been one of the best CB's in the league, averaging ~5 ints a season, ~18 PD a season, ~58 tackles a season. His numbers have progressively gotten better each season too. I'd think we'd all take Williams if we could over anyone we currently have in the CB core

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    It doesn't make sense because you don't trade incredibly valuable 1st rd picks for one year wonder CBs. Pretty simple.
     Then, once you draft for that, Webb's agent has you by the balls pointing to Asamougha and Revi's deals, as leverage as to why Webb needs that. No thanks.

    We don't win SBs with pricey CBs or pricey WRs. 

    Your points are good, but you seem callous about the price to obtain and sign Webb.  

    The new CBA has a rookie cap in place. We've been down this road. We don't need more younger CBs. We have plenty of those. What we need is an impact Safety next to Chung either catching lignting in a bottle with a Landry type or getting lucky in the draft.

    If I am going to trade a 1st rder, I am doing it for more high impact need like a stud DE who can play 3 downs and rush the passer.
     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    We need a difference maker in the front in some way, shape or form. I don't care how they get one (through the draft, trade) we just need someone to take the pressure off Wilfork. If Fanane is the guy to do it, then fine, but I think of him as more of a solid rotational type.

    A linebacker with experience would be nice, too often our inexperience showed in coverage with this group. We are going to need one of our younger runners to step up, but we are still going to need another guy - weather that comes through free agency or the draft.

    I like the moves they've made so far. 
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.:
    [QUOTE]It doesn't make sense because you don't trade incredibly valuable 1st rd picks for one year wonder CBs. Pretty simple.  Then, once you draft for that, Webb's agent has you by the balls pointing to Asamougha and Revi's deals, as leverage as to why Webb needs that. No thanks. We don't win SBs with pricey CBs or pricey WRs.  The new CBA has a rookie cap in place. We've been down this road. We don't need more younger CBs. We have plenty of those. What we need is an impact Safety next to Chung either catching lignting in a bottle with a Landry type or getting lucky in the draft. If I am going to trade a 1st rder, I am doing it for more high impact need like a stud DE who can play 3 downs and rush the passer.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    I don't know what you think we can get with pick #31 as far as CB's goes but going down the list for a number of years not a single one has been as productive as Webb so value wise Webb is better then most CB's you'll find at #31. 

    The rookie cap too, well at pick #31 the contracts are about the same. There really is no saving at #31 compared to previous seasons so the value for #31 is about the same as previous years which for a top 10 CB is a steal.

    If, and I said IF, Webb takes a deal at 50-75% of Carrs/Finnegans deal than that has tremendous value in the upcoming years. BTW his agent won't have us by the balls considering he would have a deal in place and given the youth already in the CB core. He would actually has zero leverage moving forward. What leverage he would have is if Ras gets injured constantly and McCourty takes more steps backwards, but at that point we'd be in more trouble then having an unhappy CB that can be traded down the road

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    Rusty let me ask you this.

    If last year you could have gotten Williams for a deal slightly better then Boddens deal and it cost you our late 1st last year would you have done it?

    Of course GB then signed him to an extension half way through the season that comparatively to Carr's and Finnegans deals makes it a below market value deal (Smart move by GB)
     
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    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    Sign LaRon Landry
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.:
    [QUOTE]Rusty let me ask you this. If last year you could have gotten Williams for a deal slightly better then Boddens deal and it cost you our late 1st last year would you have done it? Of course GB then signed him to an extension half way through the season that comparatively to Carr's and Finnegans deals makes it a below market value deal (Smart move by GB)
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    No. If I had known Bodden was going to have back surgery, obviously yes.

    McCourty had as good of a year as Williams did in 2010 and each had down years in 2011, so dealing for Williams would have made this board would have exploded with ant-BB rage. 
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    #1 - Find out Landry's price. If it is too high, then leave him and move on. Look for a CB or S in the draft and if we go CB, maybe consider moving McCourty to FS (depending on how Gregory looks).

    #2 - Bring back Carter for cheap. Find out Anderson's price..if too high, leave him.

    #3 - Although not FA related, draft best OL or DE available with #27. Maybe CB or S if one slips, but unlikely IMO.

    Of course, I'm not BB so who knows? :)
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed. : No. If I had known Bodden was going to have back surgery, obviously yes. McCourty had as good of a year as Williams did in 2010 and each had down years in 2011, so dealing for Williams would have made this board would have exploded with ant-BB rage. 
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Rusty, this is what Williams had last year   (* denotes career high):

      GS    G    Tackles     Int    PD    FF

      15    15     64*         4     22*   0

    He had 2 more int's in 10' and 1 more FF but had more PD's and tackles this year. If you call that a down year I'd love to see what you call an average year.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from p-dogg81. Show p-dogg81's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    RE-SIGN BOTH ANDRE CARTER AND MARK ANDERSON!!!!!!!!!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    How many roster spots do you believe will turn over from last year? They made the Super Bowl, its not like they were a 4th place out of the running by week 8 team. They had a few holes, and seem to have addressed most of them nicely. Lloyd seems like a good signing at a very reasonable figure. I can see the sense of picking up Trevor Scott and Jonathan Fanene for DL/OLB depth, especially if Carter and/or Anderson do not come back. Gregory is depth at safety, which they had little to non of last year. They also have some other young guys who will have the benefit of a full off season/training camp that they missed last year (Vareen, Ridley, Cannon, Malcolm Williams, even Solder). Gonzales may not even make the roster if Welker signs and Edelmann shows more than him in camp. Edelmann plays special teams and filled in on D, BB kind of guy. They have already picked up 5-6 players who were not on the roster last year, and have multiple first and second round picks, plus a 3, 4 and 5. There are not that many roster spots available. I am guessing unless two players they love drop into their laps, they will do their usual trade one first rounder into next year. Anyone know how much cap space is still available??
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed. : How would getting Webb make little sense? It would actually make perfect sense and a typical BB move: 1) It takes a top end CB away from a AFC rival who will most likely contend with the Pats for the AFCC 2) Williams had a great 2011 season following his 2010 season. Shut down corners are extremely hard to find so getting a shot at a top 10 CB should not be taken lightly. 3) Given Webb is still rising and has only had 1 year of success you could argue giving him a below market value for a RFA (ala Welker). This provides tremendous value given how crazy contract for top end CB's have escalated recently 4) BB likes to hedge his bets with his starters. Having Webb, Ras, McCourty in a rotational role keeps them fresh and has 3 starting caliber players for 2 positions (depth BB loves to build if capable). It also protects him in worst case scenario's in which Ras continues to have injury issues or if the FS position becomes an issue again and McCourty needs to move back over. This allows BB to have max flexibility 5) The weakness of the S class in this years draft makes having the flexibility of moving a McCourty to FS a bigger need. As you pointed out Barron most likely won't be there and past that would you say any of the S's in the draft are better then what McCourty might bring? 6) Webb is still young and coming from a complex secondary scheme that runs similar groupings as the Pats do. All in all if Webb comes in at 50-75% of the cost as Carr or Finnegan in terms of contract then this would be an extremely BB type of move. Hurt your AFC rival, get a below market value deal for a upcoming player who hasn't fully entered their prime yet, and it's in a position of need for the Pats that produces great depth with maximum flexibility options. BTW if Webb turns out to be like Williams I think we'd all be extremely happy. Over the last 4 years Williams has been one of the best CB's in the league, averaging ~5 ints a season, ~18 PD a season, ~58 tackles a season. His numbers have progressively gotten better each season too. I'd think we'd all take Williams if we could over anyone we currently have in the CB core
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Great post, solid reasoning and facts, not just blanket statements that are not backed up by anything

    Webb at 50-75% of Carr/Finnegan money for pick 31 would be a great move
     
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    Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.

    In Response to Re: New England 2012 moves thus far, and what other additons are needed.:
    [QUOTE]It doesn't make sense because you don't trade incredibly valuable 1st rd picks for one year wonder CBs. Pretty simple.  Then, once you draft for that, Webb's agent has you by the balls pointing to Asamougha and Revi's deals, as leverage as to why Webb needs that. No thanks. We don't win SBs with pricey CBs or pricey WRs.  Your points are good, but you seem callous about the price to obtain and sign Webb.   The new CBA has a rookie cap in place. We've been down this road. We don't need more younger CBs. We have plenty of those. What we need is an impact Safety next to Chung either catching lignting in a bottle with a Landry type or getting lucky in the draft. If I am going to trade a 1st rder, I am doing it for more high impact need like a stud DE who can play 3 downs and rush the passer.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Whats that jive about Webb's agent having us by the balls?

    The way I thought it worked was we offered him a contract (50-75% of what Revis, Carr, Finnegan, Aso make) then he can decline the contract and play at the first rd tender # or sign it, up to him

    then we have to wait and see if Baltimore will match it

    at no point do I see his agent forcing us to pay him 10+ million a year

    and there has been extensive research done into Webb's numbers, ESPN had a great article on it, to show how far and away he was one of the best 2-3 CB's drafted in the first rd in the past 5 years and his value is easily that of a #1 shutdown type corner
     
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