New Patriot first down record...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    89 offensive plays (and 54 runs) is ridiculous.  Loved the way they went hurry up but running rather than passing.  It prevented the Broncos from subbing defenders.  In some ways it is similar to the strategy employed last week.  It seems like Josh is trying to keep the defense in pass-defense mode, then run against them.  In Buffalo, the Bills seemed reluctant to come out of a pass defense because they were worried about the Pats' receivers.  This week, Josh didn't even give the Broncos a chance to change their defense, going hurry up as soon as they committed to a pass-focused personnel package.

    Not sure if others noticed, but the Pats opening drive appeared to be a typical Bill O'Brien type spread drive.  That got the Broncos into the defensive mode Josh wanted them to be in, then he switched over to the run in a hurry-up offense.  Can't wait to re-watch this game, because it was an interesting strategic approach.  The Pats also seemed to employ a fair amount of five-wide spread/shotgun formations through the game.  Again, that seemed to force the Broncos to keep respecting the pass, which then opens up the run.  

    Josh's approach so far is to use the Pats' long-time strength (the passing game) to set up the run.  This is not a case of the run setting up the pass, but the pass setting up the run.  The good thing is with Ridley, we have a back who is explosive enough to make it work. (He's getting over 5 ypc, I believe.)  The question will be whether they'll keep him on the field this year despite the occasional fumble.  Bolden has also run well, but Ridley is the guy who really knows how to get yards on his own, beyond what the blockers give him.



    One thing to note is that when they were in the 5 wide spread Ridley was on the field as one of the receivers. This allowed them to get back to the hurry up without substitution forcing the defense to stay in their nickle and dime package. So you are correct, the pass did help set up the run.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

    What evidence do you have that the Pats would have lost with O'Brien. They smashed the Broncos twice last year.




    Slight difference between Manning and Tebow.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to GO47's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    89 offensive plays (and 54 runs) is ridiculous.  Loved the way they went hurry up but running rather than passing.  It prevented the Broncos from subbing defenders.  In some ways it is similar to the strategy employed last week.  It seems like Josh is trying to keep the defense in pass-defense mode, then run against them.  In Buffalo, the Bills seemed reluctant to come out of a pass defense because they were worried about the Pats' receivers.  This week, Josh didn't even give the Broncos a chance to change their defense, going hurry up as soon as they committed to a pass-focused personnel package.

    Not sure if others noticed, but the Pats opening drive appeared to be a typical Bill O'Brien type spread drive.  That got the Broncos into the defensive mode Josh wanted them to be in, then he switched over to the run in a hurry-up offense.  Can't wait to re-watch this game, because it was an interesting strategic approach.  The Pats also seemed to employ a fair amount of five-wide spread/shotgun formations through the game.  Again, that seemed to force the Broncos to keep respecting the pass, which then opens up the run.  

    Josh's approach so far is to use the Pats' long-time strength (the passing game) to set up the run.  This is not a case of the run setting up the pass, but the pass setting up the run.  The good thing is with Ridley, we have a back who is explosive enough to make it work. (He's getting over 5 ypc, I believe.)  The question will be whether they'll keep him on the field this year despite the occasional fumble.  Bolden has also run well, but Ridley is the guy who really knows how to get yards on his own, beyond what the blockers give him.



    One thing to note is that when they were in the 5 wide spread Ridley was on the field as one of the receivers. This allowed them to get back to the hurry up without substitution forcing the defense to stay in their nickle and dime package. So you are correct, the pass did help set up the run.



    Yep, Ridley has better speed than BJGE, which allows them to use him more as an all purpose type back.  However, a lot of the formations were similar to those we saw last year with BJGE.  It was just that the runs produced a lot more yardage.  Yesterday it was nothing special or different with the play calling.  We didn't use a ton of I-formation or heavy bunch formations.  We spread it out just like last year and used an awful lot of shotgun.  It's just that this year the back is a lot better.  A guy who can average 5 yards per carry is a lot more effective than one that averages 3.5.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    Good points about josh using pass to set up run... This is a more sustainable offensive model IMO because defenses will always be afraid of Brady's firepower. Would like to see more shots taken deep.

    One concern is NFL making hurry up obsolete with rule changes that allow defense to substitute. Pats were bailed out by defense penalties a couple times...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    89 offensive plays (and 54 runs) is ridiculous.  Loved the way they went hurry up but running rather than passing.  It prevented the Broncos from subbing defenders.  In some ways it is  to the strategy employed last week.  It seems like Josh is trying to keep the defense in pass-defense mode, then run against them.  In Buffalo, the Bills seemed reluctant to come out of a pass defense because they were worried about the Pats' receivers.  This week, Josh didn't even give the Broncos a chance to change their defense, going hurry up as soon as they committed to a pass-focused personnel package.

    Not sure if others noticed, but the Pats opening drive appeared to be a typical Bill O'Brien type spread drive.  That got the Broncos into the defensive mode Josh wanted them to be in, then he switched over to the run in a hurry-up offense.  Can't wait to re-watch this game, because it was an interesting strategic approach.  The Pats also seemed to employ a fair amount of five-wide spread/shotgun formations through the game.  Again, that seemed to force the Broncos to keep respecting the pass, which then opens up the run.  

    Josh's approach so far is to use the Pats' long-time strength (the passing game) to set up the run.  This is not a case of the run setting up the pass, but the pass setting up the run.  The good thing is with Ridley, we have a back who is explosive enough to make it work. (He's getting over 5 ypc, I believe.)  The question will be whether they'll keep him on the field this year despite the occasional fumble.  Bolden has also run well, but Ridley is the guy who really knows how to get yards on his own, beyond what the blockers give him.



    Priceless. Use your game film and watch the 1st td pass of the game. Brady using run action to sell the LB on a Bolden carry, only to leave WW open for the back shoulder td. (Tommy throws a quick little pump fake too)

    Let me get this straight, we ran the ball 50 something times but the " pass set up the run" and not the other way around? Got it.

     

    Why hasn't the pass set up the run so well for the last 3 years? Oh that's right we didnt have any talent. Heard.

     

    Great job by McD and Brady running the no huddle and running IN the no huddle. Very innovative and it has punished 2 teams in a row.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    I only wish we had Ridley and some undrafted RB from Mississippi last year so we could have used the pass to open up the run....oh we did.

     

    Only 1 thing has changed from last year....the offensive philosophy of heavy down field shotgun use to running out of multiple Sets. Run early, run often, and Brady will be shooting fish in a barrel all year.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    The Pats did use  pass to set up the run in 2010. Look up the numbers 10th in attempts, 9th in yards, 3rd in rushing TD's and 3rd in rushing for first downs. Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story. They led the league in scoring and McDaniels had nothing to do with it. He was in the middle of his Denver meltdown.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

    The Pats did use  pass to set up the run in 2010. Look up the numbers 10th in attempts, 9th in yards, 3rd in rushing TD's and 3rd in rushing for first downs. Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story. They led the league in scoring and McDaniels had nothing to do with it. He was in the middle of his Denver meltdown.



    Then we used wood head as the primary RB because we wanted to pass so much. He turned out like 2.5 ypc, while his back up Benny fresh off a1000 yard 13 td season got 9 carries for 46 yards. Didn't Benny run for 100 on the jets earlier that year as well. Whooops

    I don't care what McD did anywhere else. If he stayed with us and built some cohesion on the coaching staff we probably win another SB last year, or maybe even 2010. 

     

    Not sure why you don't like him but he was architect of the greatest offense in nfl history(statistically speaking of course) and then almost brought a QB who never even started a college game to an 11  5 season. Not too mention perhaps his best job in 2006 when we had the worst offensive talent in our decade and still helped Brady get to 34 pts in the afc championship game. This guy is awesome, he learned from Weiss and is a classic example of BB promoting from within. A true development story.

     

    Cant wait to see BBs next football life show. The one where they'd talk about him transforming the offense back to a smash mouth complimentary style football team in order to win another SB.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

    The Pats did use  pass to set up the run in 2010. Look up the numbers 10th in attempts, 9th in yards, 3rd in rushing TD's and 3rd in rushing for first downs. Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story. They led the league in scoring and McDaniels had nothing to do with it. He was in the middle of his Denver meltdown.



    Then we used wood head as the primary RB because we wanted to pass so much. He turned out like 2.5 ypc, while his back up Benny fresh off a1000 yard 13 td season got 9 carries for 46 yards. Didn't Benny run for 100 on the jets earlier that year as well. Whooops

    I don't care what McD did anywhere else. If he stayed with us and built some cohesion on the coaching staff we probably win another SB last year, or maybe even 2010. 

     

    Not sure why you don't like him but he was architect of the greatest offense in nfl history(statistically speaking of course) and then almost brought a QB who never even started a college game to an 11  5 season. Not too mention perhaps his best job in 2006 when we had the worst offensive talent in our decade and still helped Brady get to 34 pts in the afc championship game. This guy is awesome, he learned from Weiss and is a classic example of BB promoting from within. A true development story.

     

    Cant wait to see BBs next football life show. The one where they'd talk about him transforming the offense back to a smash mouth complimentary style football team in order to win another SB.




    nah....



    I see Bradshaw and coughlin are taking a page out of our book. 200 yards on the ground despite being down early. Good win. We want you!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    89 offensive plays (and 54 runs) is ridiculous.  Loved the way they went hurry up but running rather than passing.  It prevented the Broncos from subbing defenders.  In some ways it is similar to the strategy employed last week.  It seems like Josh is trying to keep the defense in pass-defense mode, then run against them.  In Buffalo, the Bills seemed reluctant to come out of a pass defense because they were worried about the Pats' receivers.  This week, Josh didn't even give the Broncos a chance to change their defense, going hurry up as soon as they committed to a pass-focused personnel package.

    Not sure if others noticed, but the Pats opening drive appeared to be a typical Bill O'Brien type spread drive.  That got the Broncos into the defensive mode Josh wanted them to be in, then he switched over to the run in a hurry-up offense.  Can't wait to re-watch this game, because it was an interesting strategic approach.  The Pats also seemed to employ a fair amount of five-wide spread/shotgun formations through the game.  Again, that seemed to force the Broncos to keep respecting the pass, which then opens up the run.  

    Josh's approach so far is to use the Pats' long-time strength (the passing game) to set up the run.  This is not a case of the run setting up the pass, but the pass setting up the run.  The good thing is with Ridley, we have a back who is explosive enough to make it work. (He's getting over 5 ypc, I believe.)  The question will be whether they'll keep him on the field this year despite the occasional fumble.  Bolden has also run well, but Ridley is the guy who really knows how to get yards on his own, beyond what the blockers give him.



    agreee on ridley.

    your theory assumes that josh enjoyed allowing 3 and outs with no backs in backfield to set up the run. i dont buy it and dont think bb woudl be ok with it either.

    it looked similar to his poor game (but over less time) calling vs arizona and balt, which otherwise should have been wins, despite mistakes and performance.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:

    In response to GO47's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    89 offensive plays (and 54 runs) is ridiculous.  Loved the way they went hurry up but running rather than passing.  It prevented the Broncos from subbing defenders.  In some ways it is similar to the strategy employed last week.  It seems like Josh is trying to keep the defense in pass-defense mode, then run against them.  In Buffalo, the Bills seemed reluctant to come out of a pass defense because they were worried about the Pats' receivers.  This week, Josh didn't even give the Broncos a chance to change their defense, going hurry up as soon as they committed to a pass-focused personnel package.

    Not sure if others noticed, but the Pats opening drive appeared to be a typical Bill O'Brien type spread drive.  That got the Broncos into the defensive mode Josh wanted them to be in, then he switched over to the run in a hurry-up offense.  Can't wait to re-watch this game, because it was an interesting strategic approach.  The Pats also seemed to employ a fair amount of five-wide spread/shotgun formations through the game.  Again, that seemed to force the Broncos to keep respecting the pass, which then opens up the run.  

    Josh's approach so far is to use the Pats' long-time strength (the passing game) to set up the run.  This is not a case of the run setting up the pass, but the pass setting up the run.  The good thing is with Ridley, we have a back who is explosive enough to make it work. (He's getting over 5 ypc, I believe.)  The question will be whether they'll keep him on the field this year despite the occasional fumble.  Bolden has also run well, but Ridley is the guy who really knows how to get yards on his own, beyond what the blockers give him.



    One thing to note is that when they were in the 5 wide spread Ridley was on the field as one of the receivers. This allowed them to get back to the hurry up without substitution forcing the defense to stay in their nickle and dime package. So you are correct, the pass did help set up the run.




    DUDE, EXACTLY. I hate the shotgun spread as you know, but when it was called, I was thrilled Ridley wasn't leaving the field. This is the key. Don't sub the backs on the drives (generally speaking).

    I loved it when he just went wide, then after that play was run, they'd put him back at RB and then just run the next play.

    That is what this is all about. Don't tip your plays based on personnel packages.  If they are this crisp at this point of the season without Hernandez, ummm, WOW.

    It's all about health and McDaniels not screwing this kind of thing up at this point.

    I have no issue with bringing in Woodhead on 3rd and 17 and those kinds of situations, because it's sort of a desperation down which means execute with your best skilled player in that role.

    Even when they ran with Woodhead on 3rd and 17, I had no issue with it because you're still playing ball control and field position if you don't get it.  They happened to get it, which was great.

     



    " Don't tip your plays based on personnel packages. "

    agreed this is waht we need to do, and my plan since last year.

    "If they are this crisp at this point of the season without Hernandez, ummm, WOW."

    agreed if josh doesnt blow any more games.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Good points about josh using pass to set up run... This is a more sustainable offensive model IMO because defenses will always be afraid of Brady's firepower. Would like to see more shots taken deep.

    One concern is NFL making hurry up obsolete with rule changes that allow defense to substitute. Pats were bailed out by defense penalties a couple times...



    "Good points about josh using pass to set up run."

    i like how he used the playcallng to set up the loss vs zona and balt.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    lets add teh empty set was a frequent failure (and allows the defense to focus on one thing).

    add he needs to stop with the cute stuff and trick plays which have all failed. when we have a good variety of threats and plays that work, use them.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    lets add teh empty set was a frequent failure (and allows the defense to focus on one thing).

    add he needs to stop with the cute stuff and trick plays which have all failed. when we have a good variety of threats and pyas that work, use them.



    +1

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

    The Pats did use  pass to set up the run in 2010. Look up the numbers 10th in attempts, 9th in yards, 3rd in rushing TD's and 3rd in rushing for first downs. Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story. They led the league in scoring and McDaniels had nothing to do with it. He was in the middle of his Denver meltdown.



    Then we used wood head as the primary RB because we wanted to pass so much. He turned out like 2.5 ypc, while his back up Benny fresh off a1000 yard 13 td season got 9 carries for 46 yards. Didn't Benny run for 100 on the jets earlier that year as well. Whooops

    I don't care what McD did anywhere else. If he stayed with us and built some cohesion on the coaching staff we probably win another SB last year, or maybe even 2010. 

     

    Not sure why you don't like him but he was architect of the greatest offense in nfl history(statistically speaking of course) and then almost brought a QB who never even started a college game to an 11  5 season. Not too mention perhaps his best job in 2006 when we had the worst offensive talent in our decade and still helped Brady get to 34 pts in the afc championship game. This guy is awesome, he learned from Weiss and is a classic example of BB promoting from within. A true development story.

     

    Cant wait to see BBs next football life show. The one where they'd talk about him transforming the offense back to a smash mouth complimentary style football team in order to win another SB.




    nah....



    I see Bradshaw and coughlin are taking a page out of our book. 200 yards on the ground despite being down early. Good win. We want you!




    it was a good win but against a much lesser team and they fell behind early cause they couldnt get their heads into it, which is silly...got booed but woke up

    cant do that this week, playing Big Boys: 49ers



    That's a game ill watch

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: New Patriot first down record...

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to ccnsd's comment:

    The Pats did use  pass to set up the run in 2010. Look up the numbers 10th in attempts, 9th in yards, 3rd in rushing TD's and 3rd in rushing for first downs. Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story. They led the league in scoring and McDaniels had nothing to do with it. He was in the middle of his Denver meltdown.



    Then we used wood head as the primary RB because we wanted to pass so much. He turned out like 2.5 ypc, while his back up Benny fresh off a1000 yard 13 td season got 9 carries for 46 yards. Didn't Benny run for 100 on the jets earlier that year as well. Whooops

    I don't care what McD did anywhere else. If he stayed with us and built some cohesion on the coaching staff we probably win another SB last year, or maybe even 2010. 

     

    Not sure why you don't like him but he was architect of the greatest offense in nfl history(statistically speaking of course) and then almost brought a QB who never even started a college game to an 11  5 season. Not too mention perhaps his best job in 2006 when we had the worst offensive talent in our decade and still helped Brady get to 34 pts in the afc championship game. This guy is awesome, he learned from Weiss and is a classic example of BB promoting from within. A true development story.

     

    Cant wait to see BBs next football life show. The one where they'd talk about him transforming the offense back to a smash mouth complimentary style football team in order to win another SB.


    I like McDaniels fine, and I hope he learns more this time as a coordinator because I expect Belichek may want McDaniels to replace him one day. Unfortunately like many others in the organization he was not able to cut it without Brady or Belichek. If you dislike O'Brien fine, but do not exagerrate his record. They did run the ball with him a lot in 2010 and in 2011 Woodhead averaged almost a yard more per carry to BJGE (4.6-3.7). If you want me to agree that the Pats in 2012 have a better offense than in 2011 because of the running game I will probably agree with you (even if the final point and yardage totals are not as good in the end).
    But i will not accept that Belichek and O'Brien abandoned the running game, because they did not and 2010 proves it. They were 14-2 with that running game so why throw it away for no reason? They didn't, obviously they felt for some reason that it was not getting it done in 2011. I expect it was the defense that killed the running game. With a defense that struggled getting off the field they felt they could not trust the season to a running back getting less than 4 ypc (BJGE). They scratched and clawed their way to a super bowl with a below average defense and a below average running game and i'm supposed to believe we had bad coaches!

     
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