New Twist to Seau Suicide?

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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?:
    [QUOTE]One other point here.  The depression and financial problems that some are claiming are possibly the "real" cause of some of these suicides could very well be themselves symptoms of brain damage.  Brain damage can cause depression and also reduces one's ability to make good choices.  For guys who start showing symptoms of brain damage in their late 30s and early 40s, they can face a life of hell where they are really mentally unable to make good decisions for decades. They lose their money, their families, and whatever happiness they may have had in life.  It's pretty tragic really and, if you have any compassion at all, should give you just a little pause as you think about the pleasure you take watching this sport each Sunday afternoon.  I'm not saying football should be abolished by any means.  Or that all risk can or even should be taken out of the game.  But something should be done to help players who may end up debilitated for life as a result of providing us a few hours of pleasure every Sunday afternoon.  Human decency requires no less. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

         Again, you are trying to change the focus of these concussion discussions. The lawsuits being filed have nothing to do inadequate health care coverage. They deal with whether the NFL knowingly failed to warn allegedly unsuspecting players of the dangers of concussions...whether the league negligently and/or knowingly mis-diagnosed these head injuries...and "pressured" these players to "play through" their concussion. 

         Whether what is being done by the league and the NFLPA to deal with the health issues of retired players is sufficient to satisfy the needs of all of the retired players is an entirely different discussion. Nor is anyone discounting the seriousness of head injuries.  

         To automatically attribute every misfortune suffered by a retired player to "brain damage", as you appear to be doing above, smacks of shear speculation, and hysteria. Boxing or playing football doesn't automatically cause brain damage. But, both sports have their inherent risks.  

         In boxing, championship fights have been reduced from 15 rounds to 12. More padding has been added to gloves. Fights are stopped much quicker than they once were. Yet...one forceful punch, properly landed, could result in a concussion, brain damage, or even death.

         In football, the NFL has taken steps to reduce the number of violent collisions with the new kick-off rule, and with "defenseless player" and head shot penalties, accompanied by sky high fines. The league surely has providing players with helmets which offer the maximum amount of protection available. Player safety is the reason why the Saints have been punished as harshly as they have for "Bounty-gate". Yet, any player remains subject to a legal hit which could lead to a herniated disk, being paralyzed, having a knee shredded, or suffering a concussion.  
     
         There's only so much that can be done. Boxing and football will always be  dangerous, high contact sports. Any man who enters a ring or runs onto a gridiron knows this, going in. Take away the contact, and you take away these sports.   
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    The "focus" of this "discussion," Tex, is quite transparently to suggest that Seau wasn't suffering from brain trauma, but was merely a guy who killed himself because he was too irresponsible to manage his money well.  Your purpose is all too clear.  

    The lawsuits (and I've read one or two to be sure) claim that the NFL knew about the negative consequences of concussions and did nothing to change its rules or its coaching practices to protect players from getting concussions or to protect them from further damage once they did receive a concussion. The suits ask for compensation to help players who suffered from brain injuries cover medical expenses and loss of earnings.  They also ask for the NFL to do more to monitor the condition of players who may eventually suffer brain damage as a consequence of injuries sustained during their playing careers. 

    I've never said the suits have anything to do with getting better health care coverage.  They do have to do, however, with the NFL sharing health care costs incurred by players as a result of injuries they sustained while employed and for which they believe the NFL is at least partially liable.  So covering the cost of health care is indeed a part of these suits.  In fact, the suits are quite explicit about that. 
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    This attitude of entitlement in the sports industry has gotten way out of hand. And those that feed into it are delusional. Who among you think about the facts that for every so many million dollars spent on a construction project so many lives will be lost and it is figured into the insurance cost of the projects. Every time you fill your gas tank how many amputations and deaths occurred to make it possible. How many cases of black lung disease happen every year to keep those power plants fired up. You just don't, and refuse to see that for your comfort and convenience people die and are maimed every day, and are not compensated anywhere as generously as Pro sports players. So what makes that sports figure's life worth more than the cop that took a bullet to keep you safe, or the construction worker who fell or was crushed to death to help maintain the infrastructure you live in, or the coal worker who died a miserable death from mine collapse or black lung. 

      Get real all the crying and b!tching about the horrible conditions for the NFL players. Come back to earth and look around you, every where you look people are putting their health and lives on the line for the convenience of others. And we all do it taking the inherent risks of the jobs of our own free will.

      If you ask me they are very well compensated for the risks they take. They relies that each and every play can cripple,kill. or end their career . They can not deny that.

      Altho I morn the loss of the successful life of Jr. I am disgusted to find anyone holding the NFL culpable to anyone for it.
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

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    [QUOTE]The "focus" of this "discussion," Tex, is quite transparently to suggest that Seau wasn't suffering from brain trauma, but was merely a guy who killed himself because he was too irresponsible to manage his money well.  Your purpose is all too clear. 

    RESPONSE: There you go trying to demonize me again. Is that the only tact that you libs know? People like you, and those in the media, were strongly insinuating that Seau suffered from brain damage, just like Dave Duerson. I found it interesting that there might be an alternative reason for Seau's irrational acts, and put it forth. Unlike you, the alternative reasons that he was depressed and having money problems were based on statements made by those close to Seau...and were not based upon knee jerk speculation.  
     

    The lawsuits (and I've read one or two to be sure) claim that the NFL knew about the negative consequences of concussions and did nothing to change its rules or its coaching practices to protect players from getting concussions or to protect them from further damage once they did receive a concussion. The suits ask for compensation to help players who suffered from brain injuries cover medical expenses and loss of earnings.  They also ask for the NFL to do more to monitor the condition of players who may eventually suffer brain damage as a consequence of injuries sustained during their playing careers. I've never said the suits have anything to do with getting better health care coverage.  They do have to do, however, with the NFL sharing health care costs incurred by players as a result of injuries they sustained while employed and for which they believe the NFL is at least partially liable.  So covering the cost of health care is indeed a part of these suits.  In fact, the suits are quite explicit about that.

    RESPONSE: Stop trying to make the trial lawyers sound like Robin Hood...LOL!!! If you go back and re-read those petitions that you claim to have read, you'll see the the plaintiffs are not seeking for the NFL "to share the costs" for player medical expenses. You'll discover that they seek for the league to assume the full cost, the loss of quality of life, in some cases wrongful death, and to make the NFL pay excessive punitive damages.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    On July 16, 2006, Johnson and his wife, Jackie, were both arrested after an alleged domestic violence incident at their home in Weston, Massachusetts, but refused to press charges against each other. The couple divorced in December 2006.

    On February 1, 2007 Johnson made news when he told the New York Times that he suffers from amphetamine addiction, depressionand headaches related to post-concussion syndrome and Second Impact Syndrome.[1] He placed some blame on his former coach Bill Belichick for pressuring him to participate in full contact practice drills three days after suffering a concussion in an exhibition game against the New York Giants in August 2002. Johnson reported that during the drills, he suffered a second concussion, and he argues that Belichick asked him to participate against the advice of the team's head trainer. Belichick denies these allegations. Some thought Johnson's revelation was suspect based upon a December 20, 2006 column in the Boston Herald where columnist Michael Felger said Johnson told him that he would have considered playing for the Patriots in 2006 had they asked (in the wake of a season-ending injury to linebacker Junior Seau).[2] However in a February 14, 2007 interview on the Dennis and Callahan Show on WEEI, Johnson claimed he wasn't being serious when he said that, and in fact stated he said it sarcastically.

    The Boston Globe and the New York Times reported in February 2007 that Johnson shows early signs of Alzheimer's disease[3]

    On January 28, 2009 he discussed his problems with concussions sustained during his pro football career and the impact it had on his life in a CNN article. He indicated he was very inactive for two years following his retirement, barely leaving the house, and described those as bad days. He describes himself as still occasionally suffering from anger, depression, and throbbing headaches. The implication is that he is feeling better recently; however, no details are provided.

     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    Mike Wright will be a good litmus test to see what help concussed players get.
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide? : Good post.  There's a quote in Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov that reads something like " everyone is really responsible to all men for all men and for everything." This is the highest moral standard anyone can ever live by and maybe one of the most profound statements ever made by any author.  What our Republican ideologues fail to realize is that by saying individuals are responsible on their own for what happens to them, they are actually shirking their own higher "responsibility to all men for all men and for everything." It's interesting that it's the very same people who claim they are for "Christian values" that want to shirk this responsibility.  It is, in fact, the morality at the heart of Jesus's teaching and for which he set the ultimate example by giving his own life so all men, no matter how wretched and sinful, could live.  Now back to all this casting of stones . . .   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    By the same token, Liberal vegans refuse to eat eggs but have no problem terminating human fetuses. 

    I am no idealouge, but hypocrisy is not owned by the right. 
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?:
    [QUOTE]On July 16, 2006, Johnson and his wife, Jackie, were both arrested after an alleged domestic violence incident at their home in  Weston, Massachusetts , but refused to press charges against each other. The couple divorced in December 2006. On February 1, 2007 Johnson made news when he told the  New York Times  that he suffers from  amphetamine  addiction,  depression and  headaches  related to  post-concussion syndrome  and  Second Impact Syndrome . [1]  He placed some blame on his former coach  Bill Belichick  for pressuring him to participate in full contact practice drills three days after suffering a concussion in an exhibition game against the  New York Giants  in August 2002. Johnson reported that during the drills, he suffered a second concussion, and he argues that Belichick asked him to participate against the advice of the team's head trainer. Belichick denies these allegations. Some thought Johnson's revelation was suspect based upon a December 20, 2006 column in the  Boston Herald  where columnist  Michael Felger  said Johnson told him that he would have considered playing for the Patriots in 2006 had they asked (in the wake of a season-ending injury to linebacker  Junior Seau ). [2]  However in a February 14, 2007 interview on the  Dennis and Callahan Show  on  WEEI , Johnson claimed he wasn't being serious when he said that, and in fact stated he said it sarcastically. The  Boston Globe  and the  New York Times  reported in February 2007 that Johnson shows early signs of  Alzheimer's disease .  [3] On January 28, 2009 he discussed his problems with concussions sustained during his pro football career and the impact it had on his life in a  CNN article.  He indicated he was very inactive for two years following his retirement, barely leaving the house, and described those as bad days. He describes himself as still occasionally suffering from anger, depression, and throbbing headaches. The implication is that he is feeling better recently; however, no details are provided.
    Posted by seymonster[/QUOTE]

    NOW that you have pointed out his possible problems from playing in the NFL how about a report on HOW THE NFL MONEY helped his life get started and how it changed his life for the better.

     When will everyone relies they have been well compensated for their risks and now they want a second bite of the pie. GREED!

      In one breath, I was to injured to play, BUT in the next breath I would have played again if asked.........ALL LIE'S...... FOR CASH.
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide? : My bad, I could have swore I read 550 but it was 306k. Practice squad defensive end/outside linebacker Markell Carter had his practice squad salary doubled by the Patriots. Carter, the sixth-round draft choice from Central Arkansas who was making $149,000, is now on the books for $306,000. The practice squad minimum is $96,900. This was expected as Carter recently had an opportunity to sign with another team, but elected to stay in New England. Usually when that happens, the Patriots reward the player with either a pay boost or a promotion to the active roster. Carter is now the highest paid member of the Patriots' practice squad. Carter, who has earned practice player of the week honors six times this season, is one candidate to possibly help fill the void created with Andre Carter's injury
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    that would be economically fortuitous for the Pats .. they wont have to embroider another jersey!
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    this  multiple concussion issue is a very serious problem ( stating the obvious!). I find this new finding of CTE (?) crystals on the brain to be the crux here.

    We have to realize that our brain is in fact a biological computer that develops with time, it takes stimuli ( electrical and CHEMICAL) as inputs for developmental learning. This leads to "learned" outputs ie: memory, speech,hand/eye coordination,social interaction,decision making, and I am sure far more that I havent  listed here. Essentially the brain takes the stimuli and through a series of biological AND/OR GATES then outputs, hopefully, the learned correct physical, emotional, and social outputs.

    I would like to know if these CTE crystals have a deteriorating, debillitating ( biological rewiring) effect on that area of the brain where they are found and thus altering previously learned ouputs ( memory, different interpretation of events ..DEPRESSION, etc) .

    Couple this with possibly sustained supplemental chemical additions , I could very well see the "brain blue screen " in the future .

    What disturbs me is seeing possible drastic changes to a game I love to watch.

    PS: I guess in retrospect, I am now glad that I stunk as a HS player and didnt play enough to suffer any c%6 nse9$?
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

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    [QUOTE]The guy killed himself and now we have people (on all sides of the issue) trying to make political hay out of it.  Disgusting really.  Leave the guy in peace. If it turns out he had brain damage from playing football and that likely led to his death then something really needs to be done (1) to help players who have already suffered damage and (2) to prevent more such damage from happening in the future.  Are the players and their unions responsible? Yes.  Are the team owners and league responsible? Yes.  And are we the fans responsible? Yes.   Anyone who enjoys or profits from football is responsible.  And that includes leagues, owners, unions, players . . . and us the fans.  Even you, Tex Pat. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    The more I read your post's the more its easy to determine you are a complete Imbecile, congratulations on this acheivement.But.... Obviously it comes easy for you!
    You have about as many facts as you do scruples, none!
    Go to a Jets or Giants board and amuse them...
    Your just another incompetent inane drone flaping your gums with nothing to say, just wishing to insult people and cause dysfunction.

    You speak auspeciously about the Brain Damage within the NFL, obviously you have experience, whereas your not a Doctor we must consider the alternative, you are a patient.
    I would suggest you surrender yourself to the appropiate medical team working within the NFL for further case study as to how a human being with such an extent of Brain Damage can function as you do.
    The results may in fact help future determinations and causational facts for preventions and treatments to all hindered with such traumas.

    Thank you good citizen, now please rush quickly to the nearest emergency room and wait! Yell
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide? : Good post.  There's a quote in Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov that reads something like " everyone is really responsible to all men for all men and for everything." This is the highest moral standard anyone can ever live by and maybe one of the most profound statements ever made by any author.  What our Republican ideologues fail to realize is that by saying individuals are responsible on their own for what happens to them, they are actually shirking their own higher "responsibility to all men for all men and for everything." It's interesting that it's the very same people who claim they are for "Christian values" that want to shirk this responsibility.  It is, in fact, the morality at the heart of Jesus's teaching and for which he set the ultimate example by giving his own life so all men, no matter how wretched and sinful, could live.  Now back to all this casting of stones . . .   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    So you claim to know Jesus and his teachings now, a man that may or may not have lived over 2000 years ago based soley on a book that has been altered in its meaning over the entire course of its conception until the first commision by Emporer Constantine in the 4th Century AD.
     The books that make up the King james Version were chosen by men, not divine forces, the King James Version language is obscure and limited along with the fact it was created for the saving of Rome. To accept and bring the the Pagan religion of Rome and believers in Christianity together in force to defeat Romes enemies.

    I in no way wish to deny anyones faith, faith in life has powers beyond our knowledge, and does work miracles where modern science has no description.
     I just find it amusing that some who have never met anyone over 2 thousand years old can actually know what they did, who they were and how they thought, when they cant tell you what a friend of theirs did 2 hours ago down the street and with who.

    God bless you my son...Surprised


     
    sen by men, not divine forces. The language of the King James Bible is obscure and limited
    Authorized King James Bible were chosen by men, not divine forces. The language of the King James Bible is obscure and limited



     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide? :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    RESPONSE: There you go trying to demonize me again. Is that the only tact that you libs know? People like you, and those in the media, were strongly insinuating that Seau suffered from brain damage, just like Dave Duerson. I found it interesting that there might be an alternative reason for Seau's irrational acts, and put it forth. Unlike you, the alternative reasons that he was depressed and having money problems were based on statements made by those close to Seau...and were not based upon knee jerk speculation.  

    No, you're demonizing yourself well enough without my help.  Just to set the record straight, I don't believe I've ever said anything about why Seau killed himself.  It's you who seems so interested in trying to find reasons--anything but brain damage--to explain away his death. It's you who are making all the insinuations.  In fact, you've started two threads the intent of which is solely to insinuate that players are greedy, unwilling to take responsibility for their own decisions, and undeserving of any recompense from the league or anyone else. You don't seem the least bit concerned that maybe a fairly large number of these players truly are suffering from severe and debilitating injury--despite, I'm afraid, fairly ample evidence that many likely are. 

    As I said, I find these threads despicable.  But you've got quite a little cheering section I see, so why bother getting worked up about my opinon?  I'm just a liberal you know . . . my opinon could hardly matter to you . .  



     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide? : By the same token, Liberal vegans refuse to eat eggs but have no problem terminating human fetuses.  I am no idealouge, but hypocrisy is not owned by the right. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Hey sl#meball- WhyInTH's saving a fetus so important to you anyways?  You're against offering a living wage to the provider, You're against offering even the most basic semblance of healthcare for its well-being, You're PRO war mongering and stomping on the fetuses and children of non-western industrialized nations when it suits even the most miniscule of your higher-ups self-serving agenda, You're PRO sending 50,000 volts of electricity through the very same fetuses bones over and above rehabilation upon it falling by the wayside based off a lifetime of compounded struggles which you will NEVER, and HAVE- NEVER, EVER been subject to in the same degree as this poor wretched schlub...

    Difference between right-wing conservatives and liberals, Is that hypocrisy forwarded by right-wing conservatives knows ZERO bounds...It's omnipresen in EVERY SINGLE stance they have on E-v-e-r-y-thing...everything- stright up and down the board, top to bottom...Wherein the sole "hypocrisy" they shout back upon the Liberals & their policies, has to do the fact the garbage excusatory falsity that said liberals are apparently in love with the notion of destroying baby embryos through abortion, rather than the larger mantra that said liberals just want that simple option of a lone person having the freedom to choose to decide what they may OR may not, do to their own body.  

    That's it- therein lies your lone "hypocrisy" for liberals...   Yours is everywhere- All consuming, And Never ceasing, never stopping, never abating, and never ShuttingTFUp...EVER.

      
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    Btw- I AM voting for whatever puppet aryan GOP sl##zeball they throw out on the open market this upcoming presidential season...  My reasons?  I no longer want a slight but steady improvement from The Democratic Party...  They win, and it'll just be 1 more season of railroading and sabotaging any even miniscule policy that gets forwarded by them.  I don't want that...  Not any more I don't.  I want the fallout.  High time to bring this matter to a head and stop beating around the bush.  I got nothin'...which is far less to lose than those that want ever more...and more...and more...and more.  

     
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    The NBA has a much larger problems with players going broke than the NFL yet they did not have the health issues NFL has. TexasPat you are just apologist who wants to denied the sport he loves is deadly.
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    I may be in the minority here but I dont see what the NFL players beef is. They are compensated handsomely for what they do. They know the risks coming in and they choose to be professional football players. They choose the immidiate "fame and fortune" over the possible long term effects. I was a police officer and I knew the risks before taking that job. I wouldn't sue my department or city if I got shot, stabbed or beaten by some Sh!tbag, it was one of the risks inherent with the job. Almost every job has certain risks. NFL players are treated with kid gloves. They are counseled and attend workshops on everything from; "wear a condom" to financial planning. Evertime a player screws up on any situation the NFL mandates training or counseling for every NFL player on that subject. For Ted Johnson to blame BB for his current situation is nonsense! Ted is just looking to pass responsibility for HIS actions when he smacked his wife around. Well in my eyes, poor Ted is NOT A VICTIM but a man who is responsbile for his own actions. And while on the subject; who are the NFL players going to sue for all the damage done to their bodies and early deaths caused by steroid abuse after they KNOWINGLY put it into their bodies? Will be interesting to see who they blame for that one. An NFL player who knows the possible long term health effects and later wants to sue the NFL, is like a long term smoker dieing of lung cancer and then wanting to sue the tobacco industry! Or the fat lady who sued McDonalds for getting her fat!! Unlike what liberals want you to believe, not everyone is a victim. We carve our own path in this lifetime and we are responsible for our own actions.
     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?


    Conservatives like to say everyone is responsible for his own actions, but in the conservative world view if I know tobacco is addictive and its use will kill you I can still sell it to you at a handsome profit and have no responsibility at all for any harm that occurs to you.  This isn't taking responsibility in my opinion, it's shirking it.  In fact, the claim conservatives make that everyone is responsible for themselves often seems to me more like a convenient way to avoid taking responsibility for anyone else.  

    But enough about that.  What bothers me about this thread is that a lot of us apparently are fine taking pleasure in watching football and apparently aren't bothered at all by the fact that many football players spend the rest of their lives in debilitated conditions.  

    Oh well, we say.  They made their choice. They were paid for it.  Who cares?

    Texas Pat asked "where should compassion end?"  Apparently, among some on this board, even before it begins. 

    This is why I find so much of what is said here despicable. 

     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?:
    [QUOTE]I may be in the minority here but I dont see what the NFL players beef is. They are compensated handsomely for what they do. They know the risks coming in and they choose to be professional football players. They choose the immidiate "fame and fortune" over the possible long term effects. I was a police officer and I knew the risks before taking that job. I wouldn't sue my department or city if I got shot, stabbed or beaten by some Sh!tbag, it was one of the risks inherent with the job. Almost every job has certain risks. NFL players are treated with kid gloves. They are counseled and attend workshops on everything from; "wear a condom" to financial planning. Evertime a player screws up on any situation the NFL mandates training or counseling for every NFL player on that subject. For Ted Johnson to blame BB for his current situation is nonsense! Ted is just looking to pass responsibility for HIS actions when he smacked his wife around. Well in my eyes, poor Ted is NOT A VICTIM but a man who is responsbile for his own actions. And while on the subject; who are the NFL players going to sue for all the damage done to their bodies and early deaths caused by steroid abuse after they KNOWINGLY put it into their bodies? Will be interesting to see who they blame for that one. An NFL player who knows the possible long term health effects and later wants to sue the NFL, is like a long term smoker dieing of lung cancer and then wanting to sue the tobacco industry! Or the fat lady who sued McDonalds for getting her fat!! Unlike what liberals want you to believe, not everyone is a victim. We carve our own path in this lifetime and we are responsible for our own actions.
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    Quagie

    I want to address the area of responsiblity for actions. I believe we do carve our own path and we are responsible for our own actions but the process by which this happens is often complicated, not clear cut black and white as many people pretend or want it to be. I cannot accept the fact that we root for a player to play through injury including concussions so our team can win, yet when he does and becomes more injured we abandon him and say "he is responsible, he got paid a lot". Where is our responsibility to him? Don't other police officers have responsibility for each other? Aren't we as a society have some responsibility to take care of police officers if they have been injured on the job while trying to protect us? Aren't players trying to entertain us and if they are aren't we responsible to take care of them if they are injured on the job?

    I come from a family of police officers that span both coasts and my nephew has traumatic brain injury so as a result of being hit and run while coming off duty on his motorcycle in Los Angeles. He is currently in a long term care treatment center on the West Coast and his prognosis continues to worsen. The situation has been extremely difficult for my sister and her husband who was also a police officer and for my nephew's wife and 4 kids. It saddens me to write about it and I can't do this without feeling deep emotion. Am I responsible for it? To some degree I and the rest of my family bear some responsibility because we promoted the idea to him to become a police officer so he would have financial security.  After his injury LA County Police MD's said "he's not so bad, he's probably faking" but he continued to worsen. My sister had to continue to fight, hire a lawyer, get evaluations just to get him proper treatment and benefits. It took years. And, in the end it was too late; he missed getting the treatment he should have gotten early on to help his recovery. In the meanwhile he lost his home because his cognitive abilities seriously declined and his wife did not have the wits to save money and pay the bills that needed to be paid. 

    Is this so different than the situation football players are in? I think not. They have to fight for their rights for proper treatment and compensation against other people who will say "your injured, didn't you know when you took the job this could have happened?" That is just a "cop out". We are responsible for people that work for us whether they be cops, firemen, NFL players or restaurant workers. It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, it is only basic decency and an acknowledgement that we are responsible to others who perform services to us.   

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?



    Quagmire, if you were a police officer or a firefighter or a soldier hurt in service I would hope we all as taxpayers would willingly take responsibility to help you through your injuries despite your free, willing, and fully informed choice to serve.  

    Saying that the police officer, the firefighter, or the soldier has to deal with the consequences on his own and that we as the employers have no responsibility to help seems a rather pinched view of what it means to take responsbility and also a rather undemanding moral standard. 


     
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    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?



    And NYC, here's the issue with the football players. Let's assume they went into the sport knowing the dangers and there was no deception on the part of the NFL.  If that's the case, then certainly the league, the team owners, and the coaches must also have been aware of the dangers to the players--at least to the extent the players were aware of them.  Let's assume as well that everyone was making willing and fully informed choices.  

    In the end, the risks of which everyone on all sides were aware materialized, and now many of the players are stuck with ruined lives--unable to work, unable to think straight, living in pain, and probably broke from the cost of all their care.  The players and their families are devastated.  If everyone knew the risk the players were taking, should only the players (and not the league, the owners, and the coaches) bear the pain, suffering and financial cost that are the consequences of injuries the players sustained as a result of their participation in the sport?

    In my opinion no.  Everyone was aware of the potential consequences to the players.  But no one paused and said, "gee maybe we shouldn't do this."  Everyone made informed and willing decisions to go forward aware that what they were doing would cause damage either to themselves (in the case of the players) or to others (in the case of the league, owners, and coaches).  When you make a choice like that, in my opinion, you are clearly responsible for the hurt that is caused--either to you or to others. In my opinion, you are shirking responsiblity (and also acting with weak morality) if you (as the league, an owner, or a coach) say, "sorry, the players are solely responsible because they knew the risks and agreed to do it and therefore I don't owe them anything."  Well sorry league, you knew the consequences to others of what you were doing too.  True responsibility requires you to stand up and say "yes, I made a willing choice knowing full well my choice would cause harm to others down the road.  And because of that, I will take the responsibility of helping those who were hurt because of my and their mutual decision to do something risky for them."  This would be true taking of responsibility and true morally admirable behaviour. This, in my opinon, is what the league should be doing. One would hope that getting the league to take responsibility would not require lawsuits, but unfortunately that's sometimes the way in which it works in America. 
       
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?

    In Response to Re: New Twist to Seau Suicide?:
    [QUOTE]Conservatives like to say everyone is responsible for his own actions, but in the conservative world view if I know tobacco is addictive and its use will kill you I can still sell it to you at a handsome profit and have no responsibility at all for any harm that occurs to you.  This isn't taking responsibility in my opinion, it's shirking it.  In fact, the claim conservatives make that everyone is responsible for themselves often seems to me more like a convenient way to avoid taking responsibility for anyone else.   But enough about that.  What bothers me about this thread is that a lot of us apparently are fine taking pleasure in watching football and apparently aren't bothered at all by the fact that many football players spend the rest of their lives in debilitated conditions.   Oh well, we say.  They made their choice. They were paid for it.  Who cares? Texas Pat asked "where should compassion end?"  Apparently, among some on this board, even before it begins.  This is why I find so much of what is said here despicable. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

         Well...we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this topic...and probably many more in the future...LOL!! 

         Life is too short. No hard feelings, here.    
     

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