NFL Attendance & LA Expansion (please vote)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    NFL Attendance & LA Expansion (please vote)

    Most teams sellout all the time. Uncle Al -as Tex kindly refers to him- has bigger problems then a team that suxxx. The Raiders drew a sparce 38000 last week. 

    also-
    AP "SAN DIEGO—The San Diego Chargers say enough tickets have been sold to lift the local television blackout of their game Sunday against AFC West rival Oakland.

    The Chargers needed a 24-hour extension from the NFL, until 1:05 p.m. Pacific Friday, to sell the remaining tickets to lift the blackout. The usual deadline is 72 hours before kickoff.

    This is the 43rd consecutive regular-season or postseason Chargers home game to be televised live in Southern California.

    The last regular-season blackout was on Nov. 7, 2004, against the New Orleans Saints. The team record for consecutive games televised live is 44 set from 1979-84."

    Jerra's sittin' fat in Big D. 

    JAX- http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/jags/news-article.aspx?storyid=94947
    STL- http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-st-louis-news-090601-rams-leaving.3a401c40.html
    SF- http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/09/BAGNJM99FK1.DTL
    BUF- http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Kelly-Not-Concerned-with-Bills-Leaving-Buffalo/qtPb7esBDUa_TsO07Pwmjg.cspx
    MIN- http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/10/15/1087133/from-minnesota-to-industry
    & http://www.dailynorseman.com/2009/10/22/1097286/schwarzeneggers-call-to-action-for
    OAK- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/42296-oakland-raiders-if-they-win-raiders-could-leave-oaklandagain
    SD- AIN'T HAPPENING
    http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080418-9999-1m18chargers.html
    CLE- Doubt it

    In the poll, LA is building a stadium. 
    Who will play in it? There are 7 teams being considered

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    For anything to be successful, it needs people who will sustain it.

    How many times is the NFL going to demonstrate that LA just does not have those people.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    We don't have blackouts of Patriot television...every other game just gets sold to pay-per-view (NFL Network).  Now, about L.A., root's got it nailed...Los Angeles simply has too much sun, shopping, and 10 million competing entertainment venues to choose from.  

    "Los Angeles is a jungle."
            ~Jack Kerouac from "On the Road"

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    I think the NFL likes the current 32 team format, so I think they're looking to move a team to LA rather than expand. Jacksonville strikes me as the best candidate to move. The team is relatively new and doesn't have as strong a fan base as some of the other candidates, plus the city hasn't been an NFL city for very long. There is, however, a new publicly-financed arena and so there will be some resistance to having a team leave. Saint Louis and Oakland are the other possibilities, since both have some history in LA already. But both of those teams have solid fan bases, and both cities have long been NFL cities. St. Louis would be the most likely to move, I think, but then there'd be a clamor for a team in St. Louis, much like there was in Cleveland after the Browns left.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    And while we're on this subject, can't we change the name of the team in St. Louis to the Cardinals, like it's supposed to be?  And give the team in Arizona a more appropriate moniker, like the roadrunners or something . . .
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Steelcurtain75. Show Steelcurtain75's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    And while we're on this subject, can't we change the name of the team in St. Louis to the Cardinals, like it's supposed to be?  And give the team in Arizona a more appropriate moniker, like the roadrunners or something . . .
    Posted by soloflyfisher


    I agree, good idea!Roadrunners would be a good name! Is every other game, on pay-per-view in New England? Or does one of your local channel's pick it up, thru the NFL Channel? I can't remember the last time a Steelers game wasn't shown on one of our local channels.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
       " Los Angeles is a jungle ."         ~Jack Kerouac from " On the Road "
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium

    Jim Irsay owns that.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion : I agree, good idea!Roadrunners would be a good name! Is every other game, on pay-per-view in New England? Or does one of your local channel's pick it up, thru the NFL Channel? I can't remember the last time a Steelers game wasn't shown on one of our local channels.
    Posted by Steelcurtain75


    Steelcurtain:

    ~There's 2-3 games a year in the last few years that are only shown on the NFL Network...  Don't know about Mass. area, but I'm in a town in Ct. that directly borders Massachusetts, and it's tough because it seems with rebirth of the Giants (they ALL suddenly came out of the woodwork in Ct, dusting off their jerseys hidden in the bottom recesses of footlockers, thinking they're the greatest loyally steadfast fans on earth because they put the NY bumper-stickers on only after The Jints won 2 Playoff games in 2007, and BEFORE they took the Superbowl...not even joking here, just ridiculous).  

    BUT much, much moreso, It appears that ANY excuse that The Jets are Television worthy (like getting a new head coach/starting off season on top of division)-seems to be enough to bump what should be ALWAYS, a Locally Televised Pats game, to The NFL Network (stayin' sober now, so no bar; and sorry, I'm too cheap to get the extended package for 2 games, my Comcast bundle already is already upwards of like $150 or something/monthly). 

    ~BUT the Network people are smart (believe it or not), They KNOW that Jet's Fans won't pay the extra $ to see their mediocre team play like garbage, AND KNOW Many Pats Fans will pay extra to see their team gear up for another Lombardi-run...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    And while we're on this subject, can't we change the name of the team in St. Louis to the Cardinals, like it's supposed to be?  And give the team in Arizona a more appropriate moniker, like the roadrunners or something . . .
    Posted by soloflyfisher


    Solo there are plenty of Cardinals in AZ. I lived there and there are just as many cardinals as road runners
    As for Jacksonville they do have a good fan base apparently you have not seen it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    Put my vote for the Vikings, last time I saw they were at the bottom for team value.
    Plus they don't have any new stadium on the horizon.

    http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Forbes-NFL-Team-Valuations
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    Well, if you are going to change names to fit, then Steelers would have to be the "New Diversified Economies".  Then "Steely McBeam" would get pink slipped.  Appropriate.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    As for Jax having a good fan base, we sure haven't seen it....in the STADIUM.  Which is where you have to have it first.  No matter what anyone says about LA, Jacksonville has less fans now for sure,  they are covering up bunches of seats and still not selling out.  Only other team bound to leave their city seems to not get mentioned.  Buffalo.  Wilson said he wont leave the team to his family, and keeps saying they cant make money in Buffalo.  L.A. Bills has a nice ring to it, maybe they could change it slightly and tie in a sponsor and be the "LA Low monthly Sprint cell phone Bills"
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    I voted for Jacksonville because i think they play in the worst NFL city.

    I do, however, have my doubts about California's ability to support that many pro football teams.  I know it's a big state, but two teams within such close proximity might be pushing it.

    I think moving the Chargers would be realistic - they'd still be close enough for diehard fans to still attend.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    For anything to be successful, it needs people who will sustain it. How many times is the NFL going to demonstrate that LA just does not have those people.
    Posted by EnochRoot


    Absolutely false. al davis left LA because he thought he could make more money in oakland. now he's stuck there making peanuts (by NFL standards). I did some research and found that there are more people in LA and Orange counties alone than in all the 6 new england states combined. The NE can support the pats LA can certainly support their own team.

    I live in OC and have a friend who was the starting center for the LA rams in the 70s and 80s. he tells me that it was nearly impossible to get a ticket back in those days and there's a heck of a lot more people out here now.

    Also, read the most recent SI. There's an article about some bilionaire S Cal. real estate developer that's already spent $1 Billion on land and preliminary work to building a stadium east of LA. the stadium is being build, all they need is a team.

    One of the above posts lists some of the prospective teams, based on their flagging attendance and their current stadium deals. However, it left out the St Louis Rams, which are the most likely candidate at this point in time.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion : Absolutely false. al davis left LA because he thought he could make more money in oakland. now he's stuck there making peanuts (by NFL standards). I did some research and found that there are more people in LA and Orange counties alone than in all the 6 new england states combined. The NE can support the pats LA can certainly support their own team. I live in OC and have a friend who was the starting center for the LA rams in the 70s and 80s. he tells me that it was nearly impossible to get a ticket back in those days and there's a heck of a lot more people out here now. Also, read the most recent SI. There's an article about some bilionaire S Cal. real estate developer that's already spent $1 Billion on land and preliminary work to building a stadium east of LA. the stadium is being build, all they need is a team. One of the above posts lists some of the prospective teams, based on their flagging attendance and their current stadium deals. However, it left out the St Louis Rams, which are the most likely candidate at this point in time.
    Posted by unclealfie

    It isn't the number of people. It is the number of fans that matter.

    The Rams started losing attendance in the early 90's and continued to do so. Their games were frequently blacked-out. Also due to lack of support, they were unable to get a new stadium built. They moved in 1994 citing dwindling fan base and lack of a new stadium. In other words - no one wanted to pay to see them play.

    The same thing happened to Al and the Raiders. Their games were also frequently blacked out. As well, LA kept promising renovations to the stadium that were never approved - again due to a lack of fans who supported them.

    (You may note that the candidates mentioned as potential movers to LA are moving for the exact same reason that the Raiders and Rams moved out - lack of fan support.)

    It is the second largest market in the US and it lost two teams in successive years. The fans are very superficial and only show up if they are winning. Other than that, they don't really care. 

    LA did approve funding for a new stadium this past September. It really won't matter. There will be fanfare for a bit until the team loses its lustre and the fans will become enthralled with the next shiny thing. 

    Again, it doesn't matter how many people live there. It matters how many are fans. 

    LA just doesn't have the fanbase to support a team.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    I voted for Jacksonville because i think they play in the worst NFL city. I do, however, have my doubts about California's ability to support that many pro football teams.  I know it's a big state, but two teams within such close proximity might be pushing it. I think moving the Chargers would be realistic - they'd still be close enough for diehard fans to still attend.
    Posted by NickC1188


    If ownership left SD for LA, I say about 10% of the San Diego locals would still buy tickets. Most east coast people don't realize the disdain with which SD fans feel for LA in general. LA is hated by all true SD sportsfans. Its like saying you would travel to New York to see the Pats if they bailed on Boston, get the point.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion : If ownership left SD for LA, I say about 10% of the locals would still buy tickets. Most east coast people don't realize the disdain with which SD fans feel for LA in general. LA is hated by all true SD sportsfans. Its like saying you would travel to New York to see the Pats if they bailed on Boston, get the point.
    Posted by jbolted


    I didn't realize that there was a rivalry between the two cities, but as a member of a Patriots season ticket holder family, we were fully prepared to drive to Hartford, CT to see them play if the Patriots had moved.

    I don't think Jacksonville could do worse with L.A. fans than they're already doing in Jacksonville.  They're already being blacked out and they're mired in a city with a low overall population, let alone a population that supports NFL football.

    I like unclealfie's line of thinking: a larger pie means a small percentage still results in a big piece.  LA's population is large enough where if only 1% followed the team, it'd still be enough to fill a stadium (depending on prices).

    The big problem would be realigning the divisions.  In that regard, the Raiders would be good candidates because they could stay in the AFC West and they'd have a fun I-5 rivalry with the Chargers.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    For anything to be successful, it needs people who will sustain it. How many times is the NFL going to demonstrate that LA just does not have those people.
    Posted by EnochRoot
    The problem in LA had nothing to do with market support.

    The Colisieum Commission made a bunch of promises to Al Davis to get him to bring the Raiders to LA. That building is ancient but has the kind of high capacity seating that college teams (USC) love. Davis wanted luxury boxes and the complications were huge from engineering to the other major tenant (USC). When it became apparent the luxury boxes weren't coming anytime soon and Oakland gave Davis a sweet heart deal he moved.

    The Rams always drew well first in LA. When the City of Anaheim threw money at the Rams, they moved down the freeway and did well. The City of St Louis threw a multi-million dollar deal at the Rams, and Georgia Fronterrire jumped on it, in part because she was a St Louis native.

    The issue in LA is unlike Nashville, St Louis and some other cities, the taxpayers will not build a super modern facility to make ownership rich. It is not attendance based, it is $$$ based and based on facility.

    Don't confuse the issues in San Diego which is a far smaller market and 120 miles from LA. The only reason the Staples Center ever got built was AEG (which ahs many holdings including the LA Kings) put up almost all the money and recieved land only. Until a like developer comes along LA won't have an NFL class stadium, it is nature of the politics and the budgets.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion : I didn't realize that there was a rivalry between the two cities, but as a member of a Patriots season ticket holder family, we were fully prepared to drive to Hartford, CT to see them play if the Patriots had moved. I don't think Jacksonville could do worse with L.A. fans than they're already doing in Jacksonville.  They're already being blacked out and they're mired in a city with a low overall population, let alone a population that supports NFL football. I like unclealfie's line of thinking: a larger pie means a small percentage still results in a big piece.  LA's population is large enough where if only 1% followed the team, it'd still be enough to fill a stadium (depending on prices). The big problem would be realigning the divisions.  In that regard, the Raiders would be good candidates because they could stay in the AFC West and they'd have a fun I-5 rivalry with the Chargers.

    Posted by NickC1188


    I understand Hartford, but, what if the Pats moved to NY? LA is the chief sports rival to SD, moving there after being here 50 years is unacceptable for true Bolt fans.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    I heard on Sirius NFL radio a sailor call in to offer his opinion on why some cities just aren't good places for a team, and it made a lot of sense.  L.A. is chock full of people from somewhere else, and they usually do not abandon their teams.  More importantly, a high percentage of the people who can afford tickets to games are from somewhere else.  I live in SoCal, and it seems accurate to me.  On my block alone, 3 houses have Pats flags hanging.  The same block has two Steelers fans and one Colts fan.  I'm in Charger country and there are fewer Chargers fans in my neighborhood than there are fans of other teams.  Why?  Because most of the people who live here grew up somewhere else.  Only the few native SoCal residents support the Chargers where I live.

    San Diego isn't much better.  The Chargers games may not be blacked out, but they just barely make it.  It's very likely they will move from San Diego to a nearby area.  If they choose an area like Oceanside it will make it even less attractive for a team to relocate to L.A.  Why?  Because they will have moved an hour closer to L.A., and will no doubt tap into that market more so than they do now.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    Caraway just made the point without realizing it.

    Pats flags?

    Steelers?

    Colts?

    Is it barely possible that these people are not necessarily from New England, Pittsburgh or Indy, but are merely front-runners?

    To me, the bottom line about L.A. is that, regardless of the density of the population -- and if my own memory of that place is at all reliable (which it may not be) -- everything about Los Angeles is entirely fake. That city would support a team just exactly as long as it was fashionable to do so -- and then, like the Rams and Raiders before it, that team would become passe' and Los Angeles would be right back where it was before.

    Television runs the NFL, and Los Angeles is the second largest television market in the country, so the league will be perfectly happy to have a team relocate there. But, lacking some retarded sweetheart personal seat license and corporate luxury suite deals that go on forever, no team is going to be financially successful in the long run in that market.

    The people simply don't care.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    The only team that would move to LA is the Raiders. I don't think any other teams really wants to move.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    Caraway just made the point without realizing it. Pats flags? Steelers? Colts? Is it barely possible that these people are not necessarily from New England, Pittsburgh or Indy, but are merely front-runners? 
    Posted by prairiemike


    I certainly can't speak for everyone supporting another team down here, but I do know that on my block:

    1. Myself and one other guy displaying the Pats flags are from New England.
    2. The third Pats fan grew up in Washington State, was a Drew Bledsoe fan, and has been following them since.
    3. One Steelers fan is from PA, not sure about the other.
    4. The Colts fan is from Louisville.  As you know just a short drive from Indy.

    So while it is certainly plausible that the non-native residents are more likely to display their team loyalty when their team is good, I think it's fair to say that SoCal is loaded with people from somewhere else.  Here is a little really unofficial research I just did (City Data):

    1. Only 39% of the residents of LA were born in CA.  Factor in the folks who were born in NoCal (poss. other teams fans), and it's pretty dismal.
    2. 47% of Boston residents were born in Mass.  Since Mass is a much smaller state (geographical distance), a better comparison is to look at the state itself.  66% of Mass residents were born in Mass.  
    3. Fair to assume that the majority of the residents of ME, NH, and VT were born there too.
    4. 5% of the residents of LA are from the Northeast.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    Just to add a little bit to my above post.  It is fairly easy to find a "Pats Bar" in SoCal to watch the Pats games.  There are a lot bars aligned with other teams as well.  So how many bars in Boston are hangouts for Colts fans?  49er Fans?  Steeler Fans?  I'm sure there are some, but are there a lot?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion

    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion:
    In Response to Re: NFL Attendance & LA Expansion : The problem in LA had nothing to do with market support. The Colisieum Commission made a bunch of promises to Al Davis to get him to bring the Raiders to LA. That building is ancient but has the kind of high capacity seating that college teams (USC) love. Davis wanted luxury boxes and the complications were huge from engineering to the other major tenant (USC). When it became apparent the luxury boxes weren't coming anytime soon and Oakland gave Davis a sweet heart deal he moved. The Rams always drew well first in LA. When the City of Anaheim threw money at the Rams, they moved down the freeway and did well. The City of St Louis threw a multi-million dollar deal at the Rams, and Georgia Fronterrire jumped on it, in part because she was a St Louis native. The issue in LA is unlike Nashville, St Louis and some other cities, the taxpayers will not build a super modern facility to make ownership rich. It is not attendance based, it is $$$ based and based on facility. Don't confuse the issues in San Diego which is a far smaller market and 120 miles from LA. The only reason the Staples Center ever got built was AEG (which ahs many holdings including the LA Kings) put up almost all the money and recieved land only. Until a like developer comes along LA won't have an NFL class stadium, it is nature of the politics and the budgets.
    Posted by fivekatz

    I guess I must be confused by the fact that both teams games were frequently blacked out in the early 90's. It must have been the city of LA that somehow made people not buy tickets and somehow, St Louis must have thrown a lot of money at the fans to keep them away as well.

    There is absolutely no way the games were blacked-out because fans didn't buy enough tickets. That is just ridiculous. 

    I guess you could blame it on other things, but when the day is done, they fans weren't buying tickets. No tickets, no revenue. No revenue, no team. 




     
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