No Ground Game

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    DaPrince - thanks for clarifying.  I absolutely agree with your now-clear-to-me position. 

    Just because Maroney was more a bust than a find doesn't mean they shouldn't look for a quality RB on the first day of the draft.  Not necessarily, 1st round.  Or have they changed the draft so that only the first round is done on the first day?  Obviously not clear on this.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb35. Show isurfvb35's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    ahh lets end this argument here really quick, when the pats won there 3 sbs who were the running backs? clock killin corey dillon,antoine smith, jr redmond,faulk,patrick pass.....antoine smith and corey dillon were big bruising backs who ran downhill, faulk one of the best 3rd down backs in the business, my point is these guys were pretty dammned solid backs, cant say the same for the group now, so yeah i would say we have a weak/no running game and need to get back to pounding the ball, controlling the clock, and taking some pressure off of brady because play action makes him almost unstoppable, and we cant run any type of play action now with the backs we have.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    ahh lets end this argument here really quick, when the pats won there 3 sbs who were the running backs? clock killin corey dillon,antoine smith, jr redmond,faulk,patrick pass.....antoine smith and corey dillon were big bruising backs who ran downhill, faulk one of the best 3rd down backs in the business, my point is these guys were pretty dammned solid backs, cant say the same for the group now, so yeah i would say we have a weak/no running game and need to get back to pounding the ball, controlling the clock, and taking some pressure off of brady because play action makes him almost unstoppable, and we cant run any type of play action now with the backs we have.
    Posted by isurfvb35

    when the Pats won 3 SB's they had a defense that allowed the offense to play ball control. they do not have that luxury this year
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb35. Show isurfvb35's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    In Response to Re: No Ground Game : when the Pats won 3 SB's they had a defense that allowed the offense to play ball control. they do not have that luxury this year
    Posted by rkarp


    absolutly had the best defensive units in pats history, and your argument is invaild with the point im making, but im sure you know that bjge,woodhead and morris would get the same results as dillon,smith or faulk did on that team, yeah they had a great defense and a great running game, this pats team has neither bro!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    In Response to Re: No Ground Game : absolutly had the best defensive units in pats history, and your argument is invaild with the point im making, but im sure you know that bjge,woodhead and morris would get the same results as dillon,smith or faulk did on that team, yeah they had a great defense and a great running game, this pats team has neither bro!!!
    Posted by isurfvb35

    my assumption is that if the pats had a defense that dictated the offense playing ball control, perhaps the pats may have not ad to choose a db in the 1st round and 2 lb's in the 2nd round. those picks could have been used on the OL and the the 2 picks for TE's could have been used for a RB/FB ball control type 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    I think some posters here are confused, not having a ground game is substantially different than choosing not to run. 

    It implies we don't have the personel to do certain things, anyone who thinks we have less talent than we did in 2001 is daft.  We are more talented now than ever before, certainly as close offensively as 2007; the bench mark that gets the fantasy geeks drooling.

    Bad play calling, unbalanced offense... that's it, that's all. 

    Weis gave guys like Jermaine Wiggins and Patrick Pass careers, O'Brien can't get it done with Moss, Welker et al... 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    Why do you say "no ground game" and then proceed to act like this team has had great RBs to be successful? Woodhead has been a god send in for Faulk, so we know that role is solid. Morris hasn't even been used. Taylor has been hurt and could be close to returning. And BJGE is good when he actually gets carries. They ran all over MInny because they at least made an attempt to dictate with the run. In the games where they ignore the run, they basically eliminate it in the 2nd half, which in turn causes the passing game problems. I'd like to see them spread Pitt out off the coin toss and try go get up early. If they can do that, then try to run it with a concerted effort, not just abandoning it after one series. Logan Mankins returns after being known as a mauler, they have Gronk and Crump on the edges, Neal can still block well, and people want to say they have no ground game. I just don't buy it. When the playcalls even out on the stat sheets and they run it 20+ times without it being just obligatory carries, they usually win the game. Most teams use two RBs.  Most of it is skill set differences, but it's also health as to why teams need at least 2 legit backs. O'Brien needs to be more creative. Run with Woodhead MORE and maybe use Morris more, too. Pass out of the backfield on a check down to BJGE just to show you will. Stuff like that.
    Posted by BBReigns


    Sorry, but averaging 1.1 YPC is STILL considered a ground game. Not a good one, but a ground game nonetheless. There isn't a single Pats RB that puts FEAR in the eys of the defenders. Worse case for any defense the Pats face is that the RB is able to get loose in the secondary for a 15-25 yard carry. Unless you're inside the 20, that is still a defensive team's advantage. It's like the sidelines on the "short side of the field" being a 12th player. The Pats haven't had a RB that puts fear in the defenders since Martin followed Tuna Casserole to the JESTS!.   

    If they can't get a stud EARLY in the draft, I believe they should make a trade to get Barber out of Dallas. I think 98% of the team will be available, 100% if Jerry gets a sweetheart offer for Romo. No one's safe there except Jerry himself.

    I miss Jim Nance in his prime.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from james32. Show james32's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    Patriots problem is they will not run.Give the ball to Woodhead 20 times and he will get you 100 yards.And keep the defense off the field. mark ingram = over rated
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    Ask Peyton Manning where his ground game is. The Colts can run the ball if they please, but they choose to pass as much as they can. 


    Our offense suks! No true elite QB needs a running game to be productive, not even in our pass first era. Drew can win without a running game, Peyton can and Rodgers can, why can't Tom? 

    It's because he has scrubs at his WR positions. Who was our RB in 2007? Laurence eff'ing Maroney. Wes is not a good WR without a deep threat to pull coverage, Deion Branch was never a really good WR when he was here. He was a guy you could count on to be open at the right spot and time(a Jabar Gaffney if you will), but never a true number 1 receiver. Tate is basically a rookie and Edelman is only a slot receiver.  

    Most of the WRs on the Pats offense became useless once they traded Moss away. They all get single covered and the other defense plugs the box. Even if Welker beats his coverage the LBs and Safeties are usually waiting for him. 

    Before we get a RB I suggest we get a deep threat WR. BJE and Woodhead are fine. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    Ask Peyton Manning where his ground game is. The Colts can run the ball if they please, but they choose to pass as much as they can.  Our offense suks! No true elite QB needs a running game to be productive, not even in our pass first era. Drew can win without a running game, Peyton can and Rodgers can, why can't Tom?  It's because he has scrubs at his WR positions. Who was our RB in 2007? Laurence eff'ing Maroney. Wes is not a good WR without a deep threat to pull coverage, Deion Branch was never a really good WR when he was here. He was a guy you could count on to be open at the right spot and time(a Jabar Gaffney if you will), but never a true number 1 receiver. Tate is basically a rookie and Edelman is only a slot receiver.   Most of the WRs on the Pats offense became useless once they traded Moss away. They all get single covered and the other defense plugs the box. Even if Welker beats his coverage the LBs and Safeties are usually waiting for him.  Before we get a RB I suggest we get a deep threat WR. BJE and Woodhead are fine. 
    Posted by 49Patriots


    Wow dude.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    In Response to Re: No Ground Game : Wow dude.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I hate our offense! I've been vocal about it for a while, THEY SUK!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    In Response to Re: No Ground Game : Sorry, but averaging 1.1 YPC is STILL considered a ground game. Not a good one, but a ground game nonetheless. There isn't a single Pats RB that puts FEAR in the eys of the defenders. Worse case for any defense the Pats face is that the RB is able to get loose in the secondary for a 15-25 yard carry. Unless you're inside the 20, that is still a defensive team's advantage. It's like the sidelines on the "short side of the field" being a 12th player. The Pats haven't had a RB that puts fear in the defenders since Martin followed Tuna Casserole to the JESTS!.    If they can't get a stud EARLY in the draft, I believe they should make a trade to get Barber out of Dallas. I think 98% of the team will be available, 100% if Jerry gets a sweetheart offer for Romo. No one's safe there except Jerry himself. I miss Jim Nance in his prime.
    Posted by AZPAT


    Woodhead would fear me.  Just saying.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    Patriots problem is they will not run.Give the ball to Woodhead 20 times and he will get you 100 yards.And keep the defense off the field. mark ingram = over rated
    Posted by james32


    Don't get me wrong here, I love me some Head but if you give the guy 20 carries he will end up looking like Beef Stew.  He's a very good change of pace back but remember he has the body frame of an 8th grade girl.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    I don't agree. He has a low center of gravity  and huge legs, which means he's tough to hit square and he also absorbs hits very well.

    You don't need to have himto just  run the ball straight ahead up the middle, but to have him get touches with a mix of runs and pass receptions.

    Maybe 15 runs and a few pass receptions, total.

    He, Edelman and Hernandez need to be on the field as much as possible.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    In Response to Re: No Ground Game:
    Ask Peyton Manning where his ground game is. The Colts can run the ball if they please, but they choose to pass as much as they can.  Our offense suks! No true elite QB needs a running game to be productive, not even in our pass first era. Drew can win without a running game, Peyton can and Rodgers can, why can't Tom?  It's because he has scrubs at his WR positions.
    Posted by 49Patriots


    I guess this is why of all the teams you name, New England has the best winning percentage.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    The Pats have a ground game, it just isn't dominant. They aren't a team that can line up against a good run defense and simply rush it down their throats.

    The Pats don't do anything dominantly this season. They just do good enough most of the time, and focus on exploiting matchups as so many other teams are less complete than they. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    Is any team really dominant at anything, though? This is sort of what I mean, and I think what you mean at match ups, etc.

    It's really matchups/.personnel use, gamecalls and execution because the separation is so small now in 2010, there is no real dominance.

    Even these vaunted defenses or offenses aren't really that way at all.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    Umm. I would say that the Steelers have a dominant run defense. They only allow sixty ypg. conversely the Chiefs have been pretty dominant on the ground, rushing for nearly 180 ypg. 

    NE doesn't have that "one phase" that is dominant, although when Chung is healthy I think you could say they have dominant special teams. 

    But they do everything ok, which means (what I mean) that a team that cannot "impose its will" in any one aspect like NE, relies on good coaching, and choosing where the other team might have a chink in its armor. 

    A Jack of All Trades can defeat a King of one suit if he can leverage the King's weaknesses and minimize the impact of his advantages.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: No Ground Game

    I agree with the original post...the ground game is week. When you have the threat of Brady, a runner in this offense shouldn't be seeing eight men in the box and have some room to run. I think Law Firm is a good back up, but nothing more because he can't break it outside and has to many games with pedestrian numbers. Woodhead was a huge pick up, but he has to be the smallest back I've ever seen and I think if you give him the rock too much he'll be less effective, get hurt or fumble. Taylor is an injury waiting to happen and is old (same for Morris except not as good).
     
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