No Loading Up This Year

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year


    The 2006 loss to the Colts hurt alot. 21-3 lead late in the 2nd quarter and driving in Colts territory and the BOGUS offensive PI call on Troy Brown because he pancaked a defender trying to run a straight line. The Colts came back and kicked the FG to make it 21-6 before halftime and then a totally different game. The Super Bowl against Rex Grossman and the Bears would have been a lay up! That one still stings!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    Someone mentioned the Eagles signing a few players and having to cut them (as if no one has ever had to do that, how are these cuts looking??

    Jonathan Fanene, Albert Heynesworth,  Trevor Scott, Shaun Ellis, Ron Brace, Armstead, Tommy Kelly, Mike Wright, Myron Pryor,

    Tully Banta Cain, Adalious Thomas, Burgess

    Stallworth, Gaffney, Gozalez, Brandon Tate, Price, Ocho Cinco, Lloyd, Amendola, Torry Holt, Joey Galloway, Jenkins

    Schiancoe, Fells and Hernandez

    Leigh Bodden, Shawn Springs, Delta O’Neil, Adrian Wilson, Tavon Wilson, Butler, Wheatley, Whilite, Rasi Dowling, McGowen, Jon Lynch, Steven Gregory

    Fred Taylor, Joseph Addai

    Robert Gallery

    Know what all these guys had in common? All but a few of them has been cut (and those three are on the way out).

    Know what else they have in common? All of them were value signings. All of them is what we ended up with when we didn't go after the better player.

    How's this list look to you? Too me it looks like why we haven't won a Super Bowl in the last ten years.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to jam757's comment:


    The 2006 loss to the Colts hurt alot. 21-3 lead late in the 2nd quarter and driving in Colts territory and the BOGUS offensive PI call on Troy Brown because he pancaked a defender trying to run a straight line. The Colts came back and kicked the FG to make it 21-6 before halftime and then a totally different game. The Super Bowl against Rex Grossman and the Bears would have been a lay up! That one still stings!



    I hear you bro. It IS frustrating especially when you consider what Brady did with that cast. Unfortunately we likely loss that game because

    A.) Manning was Due

    B.) All the talk about a black coach never winning a SB. So they put two in knowing one would win.

    I dont think the league really tries to fix the SB games. I DO believe they fix A LOT of Conference Championship games to get the Best SB matchup. Im not sure why Seattle was a better team to feature than San Fran but maybe parity and San Fran NOT making it back to back was part of it. Ive seen enough proof that the agenda was to get Seattle in. San Fran outplayed them in every way but the refs did everything they could to give it to seattle AND did.  The league Hates BB so I cant see when its gonna be OUR turn again. We got their in 11' with a Chitty D because of a bye week, a dropped pass and shanked kick  and had no chance and still almost won but the Giants aint gonna be there anymore.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No Gronk, Hernandez or Vollmer. No Wilfork, Kelly or Mayo. Still a 4th place finish. Unacceptable to some, remarkable to me and many others. Thank you Mr. Kraft. Stay the course.

    [/QUOTE]


    Hear, Hear!!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jam757's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The 2006 loss to the Colts hurt alot. 21-3 lead late in the 2nd quarter and driving in Colts territory and the BOGUS offensive PI call on Troy Brown because he pancaked a defender trying to run a straight line. The Colts came back and kicked the FG to make it 21-6 before halftime and then a totally different game. The Super Bowl against Rex Grossman and the Bears would have been a lay up! That one still stings!

    [/QUOTE]

    I hear you bro. It IS frustrating especially when you consider what Brady did with that cast. Unfortunately we likely loss that game because

    A.) Manning was Due

    B.) All the talk about a black coach never winning a SB. So they put two in knowing one would win.

    I dont the league really tries to fix the SB games. I DO believe they fix A LOT of Conference Championship games to get the Best SB matchup. Im not sure why Seattle was a better team to feature than San Fran but maybe parity and San Fran NOT making it back to back was part of it. The league Hates BB so I cant see when its gonna be OUR turn again. We got their in 11 with a Chitty D and had no chance and still almost won but the Giants aint gonna be there anymore.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you are right about Manning being due and I still can't blame the loss on the refs as I don't really believe in conspiracy theories. It just sucked knowing that the Colts possibly would have caved in with one more score. I think the Pats team had about 10 players with the flu and simply ran out of gas that game once the Colts got the momentum. Seattle beat SF because Kap threw multiple picks. I have friends in SF that insist that this will never change!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    I've been a fan since 85 and I consider myself a newcomer! For me, it was never a hard team to root for because I felt there was always something compelling about the team whether it was Ray Berry's enigmatic coaching, Grogan, Eason, Stanley Morgan, Don Blackmon, Mosi Tatupu or guys that never quite fulfilled their potential like Leonard Russell, Robert Edwards, Jon Stephenson...

    It's all been an interesting ride.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Frankly I couldn't care what others outside of NE think and certainly don't need validation, however, I was there as a fan in the late 80's to mid 90's. I remember those teams well and do understand no matter how much the franchise thinks they can keep up winning ways once Brady rides off to the sunset there is a good shot we'll be in the same state the Jets are now. I want every last chance to be taken advantage of before the final sunset because I do remember the bad times and don't want to be looking back 10 years from now in a similar state saying, I wish they went for it at least one more time. Selling the future was the right move considering the future was a .500 team without Brady

    [/QUOTE]

    I simply don't agree and have said so in other threads.  If they 'load up' there will be consequences downstream and suppose, like Denver, they load up and then get their as_ses handed to them, also like Denver?  Brady may very well be the GOAT but I don't agree on betting the farm on the next couple of years only to have the crop fail. 

    Quite frankly, it doesn't make a rat's a_ss what I or anyone else outside the organization thinks.  Kraft and BB are going to do what they're going to do and I'm guessin that 'loading up' is not what they're going to do.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lets play this out:

    I've said multiple times you can load up without damaging the team you just have to take less bulk. but for the sake of argument

    Draft - Lets say they use 2-3 picks in next years draft to move back into this years draft or move up to get a player they want. Now lets say all those players they moved up to get failed (hard to imagine if BB is as good a GM as everyone thinks but this is a hypothetical) then for one year you have to rely on later round picks and UDFA's. Again if BB is the GM you think not a bad thing and something we already do on a regular basis. Just this year how many UDFA's and late round picks ended up starting at some point this year? So using draft picks and moving up to get a couple extra high talent players or moving up for a higher talented player does not effect the way we do business currently..... So loading up via draft is possible

    FA - Lets say they go out and sign 2 players entering their prime with higher talent. Just for the sake of argument Graham and Ward and nether work out then they incur dead money. That dead money prevents you from getting other big names in the future and you have to rely on UDFA's and low cost vet signings.... oddly enough like they currently do. What is does affect is that it means they can't dump bad decision (ala Ocho, or Lloyd) as quickly because they can't afford the dead money and they can't sign as many low cost FA's only to cut them later. But, essentially it cost them 2 years to get them off the books. It only affects them if they make multiple bad moves over and over again, something that shouldn't happen if BB is the GM everyone thinks he is. But, again it's a short term affect in which they can still do business the same way they currently do they just can't dump bad signings nearly as quick and they can't sign as many retreads.......

    Signing their own back - I have yet to see an instance where if they really wanted a player back they couldn't get him back. Mayo, Gronk, Hern, Wilfork, Brady, Mankins they all found ways to keep them in years where they didn't have a ton of cap space yet made them all top 10 paid at their respective positions. They pay who they want and let go who they don't it won't affect the way they do business.

    If you need an example of loading up that didn't kill them look at 07'. The only issue with 07' is immediately following 07' they made bad draft choices, didn't reload quick enough on D as it started to get old, and got stuck with dead money from bad FA signings.

    You can load up without costing more then a year or two if you fail. The only time it does is if you overload with multiple bad contracts and do it multiple years or have multiple bad drafting years in a row (see Jets). However, the Pats have had bad stretches of drafts too and had a similar effect and that was using this method.

    If you want examples, not resigning Samuel. I didn't think he was a great CB but we let him go over his cost correct? What was the end cost trying to replace him (Bodden, Wilhite, Butler, Ras, McCourty [though he was moved to FS], Talib, Springs). I would say the cost to replace him was more than the cost to keep him. How about Red Bryant who they could of had instead taking Fanene, and then Kelly this year is the savings worth it? How about Goldson prior to his great year in SF which got him his Tampa contract, we lowballed him to leave SF instead taking Gregory then drafting T. Wilson, signing A. Wilson, drafting Harmon. Wouldn't you have just liked to grab Goldson right then and still had that 2nd and 3rd back?

    To summerize if done right you can load up this year without costing more than a year or two in the future if you mess up (which you shouldn't if BB is such a good GM right?) and even messing up doesn't prevent you from conducting the same business you do right now with exception you can't dump bad contracts for dead money immediately (of no costs you a back of the 53 man roster spot) and prevents you from buying in bulk forcing you to pick and chose your retreads and UDFA's a little more carefully

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    i want bigger more physical Olineman

    i want a thumper at SS

    i want another thumper at LB with spikes gone

    i think we need another D tackle

    I hope we keep Talib

    All should be available in the draft

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Someone mentioned the Eagles signing a few players and having to cut them (as if no one has ever had to do that, how are these cuts looking??

     

     

    Jonathan Fanene, Albert Heynesworth,  Trevor Scott, Shaun Ellis, Ron Brace, Armstead, Tommy Kelly, Mike Wright, Myron Pryor,

    Tully Banta Cain, Adalious Thomas, Burgess

    Stallworth, Gaffney, Gozalez, Brandon Tate, Price, Ocho Cinco, Lloyd, Amendola, Torry Holt, Joey Galloway, Jenkins

    Schiancoe, Fells and Hernandez

    Leigh Bodden, Shawn Springs, Delta O’Neil, Adrian Wilson, Tavon Wilson, Butler, Wheatley, Whilite, Rasi Dowling, McGowen, Jon Lynch, Steven Gregory

    Fred Taylor, Joseph Addai

    Robert Gallery

    Know what all these guys had in common? All but a few of them has been cut (and those three are on the way out).

    Know what else they have in common? All of them were value signings. All of them is what we ended up with when we didn't go after the better player.

    How's this list look to you? Too me it looks like why we haven't won a Super Bowl in the last ten years.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    MtHurl

    Our approach is not to gamble on big contracts with guys looking for a big payday who are risky to the team finances. Of course, in hindsight, one can find lots of examples where we should have done differently; but only in hidnsight. 

    Rather, we have won numerous AFC East Titles, been in numerous AFC championship games and won 3 Superbowls because we have a great QB, a smart coach/GM who finds value guys and knows how to coach them up so if we are injured there are guys that can come in and still play to a high level. And if we didn't lose Hern, Gronk, Mayo, Wilfork, Kelly, Vollmer and Talib (in the final game) who knows where we would be. Perhaps, we would be enjoying a parade in the Back Bay.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to NYC's comment:

     

    MtHurl

    Our approach is not to gamble on big contracts with guys looking for a big payday who are risky to the team finances. Of course, in hindsight, one can find lots of examples where we should have done differently; but only in hidnsight. 

    Rather, we have won numerous AFC East Titles, been in numerous AFC championship games and won 3 Superbowls because we have a great QB, a smart coach/GM who finds value guys and knows how to coach them up so if we are injured there are guys that can come in and still play to a high level. And if we didn't lose Hern, Gronk, Mayo, Wilfork, Kelly, Vollmer and Talib (in the final game) who knows where we would be. Perhaps, we would be enjoying a parade in the Back Bay.



    NYC on average the last 3-4 years our dead money from low risk, low cost retread signings has added up to 10%+ of our cap. About the same as if we signed two big name FA's and released them the year after. So, in reality (hindsight or not) we've spent the same the only difference is the gamble. BB gambles out of 10 players 1-2 will give better than average starter stats vs putting all you chips into 2 players with higher talent and hoping they pay off. But, in the end the same amount of money was spent, just one seems like less because it's spread out over 10 contracts as opposed to two. And for the most part BB has been able to find good role players and depth with the occassional starter but when was the last time you saw him get an actual impact player via FA?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to jam757's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jam757's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The 2006 loss to the Colts hurt alot. 21-3 lead late in the 2nd quarter and driving in Colts territory and the BOGUS offensive PI call on Troy Brown because he pancaked a defender trying to run a straight line. The Colts came back and kicked the FG to make it 21-6 before halftime and then a totally different game. The Super Bowl against Rex Grossman and the Bears would have been a lay up! That one still stings!

    [/QUOTE]

    I hear you bro. It IS frustrating especially when you consider what Brady did with that cast. Unfortunately we likely loss that game because

    A.) Manning was Due

    B.) All the talk about a black coach never winning a SB. So they put two in knowing one would win.

    I dont the league really tries to fix the SB games. I DO believe they fix A LOT of Conference Championship games to get the Best SB matchup. Im not sure why Seattle was a better team to feature than San Fran but maybe parity and San Fran NOT making it back to back was part of it. The league Hates BB so I cant see when its gonna be OUR turn again. We got their in 11 with a Chitty D and had no chance and still almost won but the Giants aint gonna be there anymore.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you are right about Manning being due and I still can't blame the loss on the refs as I don't really believe in conspiracy theories. It just sucked knowing that the Colts possibly would have caved in with one more score. I think the Pats team had about 10 players with the flu and simply ran out of gas that game once the Colts got the momentum. Seattle beat SF because Kap threw multiple picks. I have friends in SF that insist that this will never change!

    [/QUOTE]

    Im the same way man. I never like using conspiracy theories or blaming refs and as you said Cap did enough for them to lose but look back at the 1st half. The Refs agenda was not to call anything for San Fran and call everything for Seattle. Take a look if you have a minute. Its very compelling when its all laid out.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NEp4r2q9tTA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNEp4r2q9tTA

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NYC's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    MtHurl

    Our approach is not to gamble on big contracts with guys looking for a big payday who are risky to the team finances. Of course, in hindsight, one can find lots of examples where we should have done differently; but only in hidnsight. 

    Rather, we have won numerous AFC East Titles, been in numerous AFC championship games and won 3 Superbowls because we have a great QB, a smart coach/GM who finds value guys and knows how to coach them up so if we are injured there are guys that can come in and still play to a high level. And if we didn't lose Hern, Gronk, Mayo, Wilfork, Kelly, Vollmer and Talib (in the final game) who knows where we would be. Perhaps, we would be enjoying a parade in the Back Bay.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    NYC on average the last 3-4 years our dead money from low risk, low cost retread signings has added up to 10%+ of our cap. About the same as if we signed two big name FA's and released them the year after. So, in reality (hindsight or not) we've spent the same the only difference is the gamble. BB gambles out of 10 players 1-2 will give better than average starter stats vs putting all you chips into 2 players with higher talent and hoping they pay off. But, in the end the same amount of money was spent, just one seems like less because it's spread out over 10 contracts as opposed to two. And for the most part BB has been able to find good role players and depth with the occassional starter but when was the last time you saw him get an actual impact player via FA?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    And I'll take it a step further...how much does/did it cost to replace all the guys who didn't work out in terms of money and other resources (draft picks, trades, etc.)?

    Too me it's like the gift that keeps on giving. Do we have to trade for Talib if Rasi Dowling, Butler, Wheatly, Springs, O'Neil, or McCourty work out at corner? Do you have to waste money and time on Fanene if Ron Brace, Shaun Ellis or Haynesworth work out? Do you have to sign Amendola if Ocho Cinco, Brandon Tate, Price, Gaffney, Gonzalez, Stallworth, Holt, Galloway and many many others work out?

    How much have we put into the tightend position over the last three years in contract money? Let's see...40 million on Gronk's deal...45 million on Hernandez's deal...Fells was good for a couple of million, Schiancoe was good for a couple of million, Ballard was good for maybe 800k or more...and what are we going to be looking for this offseason? Another tight end, because of some bad decisions. Now this spot wasn't a case of going cheap, but it was a case of making mistakes. There's been far too many mistakes as of late.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to seawolfxs's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i want bigger more physical Olineman

    i want a thumper at SS

    i want another thumper at LB with spikes gone

    i think we need another D tackle

    I hope we keep Talib

    All should be available in the draft

    [/QUOTE]


    Excellent!  Maybe have to get the SS in free agency but otherwise, completely agree. Ive been wanting bigger lineman for years but BB loves his pass blocking guys at around 300 and with good feet. I am of the theory that you let your guys run block first and whatever faults they have in pass pro will disapper after you have mandhandled your matchup but I digress, this is a passing team....by design. BB doesnt believe in running the ball while he is paying near 20 million for a "thrower"  atleast thats what ive concluded.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    True no one but maybe Kiper graded the Seahawks draft an F. Most said they had a solid draft picking players of need in spots where they were graded out to be picked so they didn't overdraft anyone. Every pick was solid overall with some questions revolving over taking a pass rushing specialist so early in the draft. Many felt Wagner was a solid pick up at LB (no one questioned whether they should have taken T. Wilson instead) and that Russell was going to take over for Jackson at some point that year. All there players past that point many felt could play role position in year 1 and many noted a couple guys were under the radar picks who could pan out to be gold in the late rounds. But, the key was they drafted for need and didn't overdraft players further then they needed to be taken. That last statement alone I bet the was majority of us would have loved to say about our 12' draft choices.

    [/QUOTE]

    and how is it different from what the Patriots have done?

    [/QUOTE]

    So you are saying T. Wilson was worth a mid 2nd round pick and not a reach at all?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from phatcatvirginbuttbuster45. Show phatcatvirginbuttbuster45's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2014/02/loading_up_through_free_agency.html

     

    "It started as a murmur. It then became audible chatter. Now it is a howl.

    Those who thought the Patriots should "load up" following a crushing loss to the Denver Broncos in the AFC Championship game are now demanding it after watching the Seattle Seahawks knocked the Broncos hooves off in the Super Bowl.

    Enough with the 5-foot-10 receivers and small cornerbacks and unknown retreads who populate the bottom third of the roster. This growing subsection of observers demand that the Patriots go for it before paint loosens and Tom Brady's window slams shut.

    But as those cries wail through the streets of New England and over the airwaves, it's unlikely that they'll be heard in the offices at 1 Patriot Place. Owner Robert Kraft already said as much during a recent radio appearance on 98.5 The Sports Hub.

    "We're trying to manage our resources as wisely as we can and be as aggressive as we can, but we're trying to make sure every year we are putting ourselves in a position to win," Kraft said.

    And while it's fun to think what the team would look like with Larry Fitzgerald on the outside or Jimmy Graham lining up next to Rob Gronkowski at tight end, spending lavishly on the open market this offseason isn't wise for the long-term success of the franchise.

    The Patriots have $118 million committed to their top 51 players and $8.5 million in dead money. If the salary cap is set at $128 million, the highest estimate being floated, the Patriots would have about $5.5 million in free space, given that they can roll over $4.1 million in unused space from last season.

    That's not much room to play with. Re-sign someone like cornerback Aqib Talib, wide receiver Julian Edelman or running back LeGarrette Blount, and the coffers are emptied. Now, money can be created by restructuring contracts, releasing guys, or getting creative with how deals are structured, but eventually you have to face reality. Loading up brings talent. It also brings bad deals. More often the latter outweighs the benefits of the former.

    The chatter surrounding the team last offseason was similar to what is being said this time around. Brady needed more weapons, particularly a deep threat, and the savior identified by many was Mike Wallace. Alas, the Miami Dolphins won those sweepstakes, and are now on the hook for $17.25 million next season for a guy who caught 73 passes for 930 yards in 2013.

    For the sake of reference, Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers carries a cap figure of $17.9 million next year. Lucky for the Dolphins, they aren't carrying many other heavy contracts, so they'll have room to improve their roster, but these deals often don't look as good once the sun comes up.

    There's a reason that it's become a cliché to say that good teams are built through the draft, and bad teams look forward to free agency. It's true. More often than not, these free agents don't survive more than a few years with their new teams.

    Remember the so-called "Dream Team" the Philadelphia Eagles assembled in 2011? Defensive end Jason Babin, defensive tackle Cullen Jenkins and cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha were the jewels of that free-agent class. All three have since been cut.

    But the Eagles weren't the only team that struggled in free agency that offseason. Nineteen players signed deals with a new team spanning four or more years in 2011. Ten of them have already been released.

    What Philadelphia learned was that collecting talent isn't the same as building a team. Not only did some of their new additions struggle to blend in, their presence ruffled those who were already on the roster. Chemistry never developed and the experiment failed.

    That lesson registered with Kraft, who pointed to the 2012 Baltimore Ravens as an example. Baltimore was able to blend their new pieces in and win the Super Bowl, but they had to start cutting pieces free and went 8-8 and missed the playoffs in 2013.

    That isn't the way he wants to do things.

    "There's so many things that happen," he said. "I don't ever believe in selling your soul for a bowl of (porridge)."

    What Kraft and the Patriots may be interested in is adding a missing piece here or there through free agency, which is what the Seahawks were able to do last offseason. It should, however, be pointed out that Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson had a base salary of $526,217 last season. Patriots tight end Michael Hoomanwanui was at $630,000. Having a quarterback that cheap makes it easier to take a few risks, though Seattle's spending can hardly be considered reckless.

    They signed defensive ends Cliff Avril (two years, $13 million) and Michael Bennett (one year, $4.8 million) to reasonable deals, though trading for wide receiver Percy Harvin and signing him to a lucrative extension was a bit of a gamble. But the key to those moves was Wilson, which makes Seattle's situation completely unlike New England's.

    But either way, loading up and revamping the offense by signing anyone with a decent set of stats is unlikely to happen in New England. The Patriots already began this task last offseason and will likely look to stay the course. Another tight end is likely needed, and a veteran wide receiver may help, but those looking for a shopping spree are sure to be disappointed.

    "I think a better strategy is to try to be solid and be able to compete year in and year out," Kraft said.

    It won't appease the fans, but that's the more prudent approach."

    ------

    noone really thought the Patriots would/could load up....

    [/QUOTE]


     

    BUST-CHISEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Did you think I wouldn't do my job for this board and let them know you are the one and only BUST-CHISE, the world’s biggest and most ridiculous NY Jets Troll? That you hunt for the backsides of your neighbors kitties at night? That you carry an old rag, a torn up Mark Sanchez Jets T-Shirt, and a bottle of chloroform which you use to incapacitate your young feline victims and that it's the reason you call this BUST-CHISE persona "Phat Virgin"?

    You will be known whenever you come here….this I swear to this board….the NY Jets are the worst franchise in the history of the NFL…44 years of laughable failure and ridicule, like Kellen “Vaseline Jazz Hands” Winslow….RUB-A-DUB-DUB, BUST-CHISE, RUB -A--DUB-DUB

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    PatsEng, not going to quote/requote.  I understand what you're saying but a lot of your points are based on 20/20 hindsight.  Moreover, there is absolutely no way of knowing how many years you surrender taking the approach in your hypothetical.  Finally, irrespective what is discussed here there is no reason to expect the Pats to deviate from the business and football operations model that they've employed since BB's arrival.

    As an aside, Tavon Wilson may have been an overreach or not.  Thus far he has hardly set the league on fire and he may take off in his 3rd year but that, at this point, seems unrealistic.  When you say 'don't overreach on draft picks' what you're really saying is go with what everyone else thinks about a player an not what the Pats model is.  BB will pick who he picks and all of the hyperventilation and vein bursting that we see in this forum when he doesn't take the Mel Kiper pick won't change a thing.

    Make me a homer?   Perhaps, but no disrespect intended, I'll put my trust in a guy who has made the team competitive year in and year out and not any of the reconstruction models I see here. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    PatsEng, not going to quote/requote.  I understand what you're saying but a lot of your points are based on 20/20 hindsight.  Moreover, there is absolutely no way of knowing how many years you surrender taking the approach in your hypothetical.  Finally, irrespective what is discussed here there is no reason to expect the Pats to deviate from the business and football operations model that they've employed since BB's arrival.

    As an aside, Tavon Wilson may have been an overreach or not.  Thus far he has hardly set the league on fire and he may take off in his 3rd year but that, at this point, seems unrealistic.  When you say 'don't overreach on draft picks' what you're really saying is go with what everyone else thinks about a player an not what the Pats model is.  BB will pick who he picks and all of the hyperventilation and vein bursting that we see in this forum when he doesn't take the Mel Kiper pick won't change a thing.

    Make me a homer?   Perhaps, but no disrespect intended, I'll put my trust in a guy who has made the team competitive year in and year out and not any of the reconstruction models I see here. 

     

    ATJ, many on this site have been crying for certain moves (and I'm not talking about sign every big name and trade the entire draft for... type of moves). People keep saying it's hindsight but it's not hindsight when many of us call out for these such moves before the season started. Ie calling out for the need for a high talent DT through the draft for the last 3 years because Wilfork was getting older and the pass rush was suffering up the middle.

    As for overdrafting, I agree to an extent. We don't know how GM's rank players but I've been a draftnik long enough to know with exception for a handful of players each year the vast majority of experts get within a round or two of a players value, not to mention the NFL itself releases it's own grades. If the NFL doesn't know it's own players I don't know who does. All I'm saying is if that player is within lets say 32 players under where they were projected (and in late rounds projects are usually range 2 rounds) it's an over reach. Everyone and their grandfather including the NFL had T. Wilson in the 6th-UDFA range. How do you go from 6th at best to mid 2nd round? Forget Kiper, he's an idiot and I would trust a good number of draftniks here before I trusted him but come on really ATJ even you have to admit there was no need to take Wilson there. BB has a history of taking players a round or two before their projections but 4 rounds early on day 2 is just a wasted pick and even homers would admit to that.

    Btw I don't think you are a homer, but if you were it's completely understandable given the winning history to hand over all faith. But, for the most part I'm an engineer it's in my nature to always look to improve and don't think closing your mind to discuss possible improvements is a way to move forward and accomplish that ultimate goal. Besides, we're fans we have no pull one way or the other so really how does us discussing what we feel are short comings and ways to improve going to really effect things? It's not like if you toss out an idea BB is going to say, well ATJ lost faith we're doomed. It's all for fun in the end so I honestly don't know why people come on and say I have faith in BB and nothing more to add and some (not you) get on others when they question certain moves. Why even be on a forum at that point? You might as well only pop in during regular season to say how wonderful the team is, after they pick up a FA to say how wonderful that FA is, and right after the draft to say how wonderful those draft picks are.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    There are investment strategies between hiding all your money under the mattress and gambling it all in Vegas. On this site, those who criticize the Pats act as if they are so risk averse they avoid investing altogether, while those who defend the Pats seem to think any alternative to what they do is a trip to the casino.

    Eng is just arguing for them to balance their portfolio a bit differently, with a little more in stock and a little less in bonds.  It's not like he's asking Kraft to bet the whole farm on one spin of the roulette wheel. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are investment strategies between hiding all your money under the mattress and gambling it all in Vegas. On this site, those who criticize the Pats act as if they are so risk averse they avoid investing altogether, while those who defend the Pats seem to think any alternative to what they do is a trip to the casino.

    Eng is just arguing for them to balance their portfolio a bit differently, with a little more in stock and a little less in bonds.  It's not like he's asking Kraft to bet the whole farm on one spin of the roulette wheel. 

    [/QUOTE]

    great post pro!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbtp05. Show jbtp05's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    I am posting for the first time; wanted share my opinion on this. Loading up never works. There is no method to winning superbowl - it is combination of good team plus good health in playoffs plus most importantly - few good bounces.

    This year 49ers could have easily won NFC if one pass was catched. Same thing last year with Ravens, if the safety for Broncos would have played one pass ok then Ravens would have lost that game. The year before that 49ers could have won NFC if not for couple of muffed punts. You can not load up for this bounces.

    The best loaded up team was the 2007 Patriots and we still could not win the superbowl - still sad about it :(

    It is better to be be consistent and enter playoffs every year and hope some bounces go your way one of those years.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to jbtp05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am posting for the first time; wanted share my opinion on this. Loading up never works. There is no method to winning superbowl - it is combination of good team plus good health in playoffs plus most importantly - few good bounces.

    This year 49ers could have easily won NFC if one pass was catched. Same thing last year with Ravens, if the safety for Broncos would have played one pass ok then Ravens would have lost that game. The year before that 49ers could have won NFC if not for couple of muffed punts. You can not load up for this bounces.

    The best loaded up team was the 2007 Patriots and we still could not win the superbowl - still sad about it :(

    It is better to be be consistent and enter playoffs every year and hope some bounces go your way one of those years.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    good post man. Welcome and I would def. post here more but caution, some folks dont like rationale posters. I def. can agree with your post. I think that even with that said, this team needs to do better. Ive never been one for loading up but Seattle just showed the right way. You build through the draft. They hit on LOTS of late pics. We squander a bunch of high pics. They made a couple of low level signings that went a long way. Bennet and Avril

    Colvin was the 1st big name signing of the BB era which would have been great if not for his freak injury. The other time BB got Adalius which was a huge mistake because he was a product of a great D and was old and wasnt great at anything. Playing Safety for the Ravens is likely was enticed BB. He regrets it. SO my point is, you dont have to break the bank and shouldnt. We agree. We arent most teams though. We have the best QB/Coach tandem in the league and its nearing its end. To that I say, you have to make smarter decisions thats all(Ocho, Haynesworth???) really? Fanene, etc. So while I agree not good to load up, but signing a bunch of bums to mid level contracts who dont pan out is worse to me. BB just needs to GET HIS GUYS. He seems to have issues in the draft and needs to use pics to trade in season a LOT due to OWN Depth not panning out. RIght now, we have a 2-3 year window. I wouldnt load up, They cant anway. JUST MAkE SMART DECISIONS. The 1st smart one should be NOT to sign McCourty to big deal.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are investment strategies between hiding all your money under the mattress and gambling it all in Vegas. On this site, those who criticize the Pats act as if they are so risk averse they avoid investing altogether, while those who defend the Pats seem to think any alternative to what they do is a trip to the casino.

    Eng is just arguing for them to balance their portfolio a bit differently, with a little more in stock and a little less in bonds.  It's not like he's asking Kraft to bet the whole farm on one spin of the roulette wheel. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree, I think he's asking Kraft to only invest in the stocks with the highest returns, and unless you're Gordon f-ing Gecko that is just not possible.....or if you had that sports almanac from Back to the Future part 2, that would also in knowing what will happen in the future.

    I guess for mere mortal highly succesful men like Kraft and Belichick they will have to just stick to smart business decisions, that allow for a longevity that is unmatched in the particular business they are in.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to jbtp05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am posting for the first time; wanted share my opinion on this. Loading up never works. There is no method to winning superbowl - it is combination of good team plus good health in playoffs plus most importantly - few good bounces.

    This year 49ers could have easily won NFC if one pass was catched. Same thing last year with Ravens, if the safety for Broncos would have played one pass ok then Ravens would have lost that game. The year before that 49ers could have won NFC if not for couple of muffed punts. You can not load up for this bounces.

    The best loaded up team was the 2007 Patriots and we still could not win the superbowl - still sad about it :(

    It is better to be be consistent and enter playoffs every year and hope some bounces go your way one of those years.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, your 1st post was a home run. If you walked back to the dugout right now we would all turn our backs on you! Welcome to the Merry Go Round.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    PatsEng, not going to quote/requote.  I understand what you're saying but a lot of your points are based on 20/20 hindsight.  Moreover, there is absolutely no way of knowing how many years you surrender taking the approach in your hypothetical.  Finally, irrespective what is discussed here there is no reason to expect the Pats to deviate from the business and football operations model that they've employed since BB's arrival.

    As an aside, Tavon Wilson may have been an overreach or not.  Thus far he has hardly set the league on fire and he may take off in his 3rd year but that, at this point, seems unrealistic.  When you say 'don't overreach on draft picks' what you're really saying is go with what everyone else thinks about a player an not what the Pats model is.  BB will pick who he picks and all of the hyperventilation and vein bursting that we see in this forum when he doesn't take the Mel Kiper pick won't change a thing.

    Make me a homer?   Perhaps, but no disrespect intended, I'll put my trust in a guy who has made the team competitive year in and year out and not any of the reconstruction models I see here.

    [/QUOTE] 

    ATJ, many on this site have been crying for certain moves (and I'm not talking about sign every big name and trade the entire draft for... type of moves). People keep saying it's hindsight but it's not hindsight when many of us call out for these such moves before the season started. Ie calling out for the need for a high talent DT through the draft for the last 3 years because Wilfork was getting older and the pass rush was suffering up the middle.

     

    As for overdrafting, I agree to an extent. We don't know how GM's rank players but I've been a draftnik long enough to know with exception for a handful of players each year the vast majority of experts get within a round or two of a players value, not to mention the NFL itself releases it's own grades. If the NFL doesn't know it's own players I don't know who does. All I'm saying is if that player is within lets say 32 players under where they were projected (and in late rounds projects are usually range 2 rounds) it's an over reach. Everyone and their grandfather including the NFL had T. Wilson in the 6th-UDFA range. How do you go from 6th at best to mid 2nd round? Forget Kiper, he's an idiot and I would trust a good number of draftniks here before I trusted him but come on really ATJ even you have to admit there was no need to take Wilson there. BB has a history of taking players a round or two before their projections but 4 rounds early on day 2 is just a wasted pick and even homers would admit to that.

    Btw I don't think you are a homer, but if you were it's completely understandable given the winning history to hand over all faith. But, for the most part I'm an engineer it's in my nature to always look to improve and don't think closing your mind to discuss possible improvements is a way to move forward and accomplish that ultimate goal. Besides, we're fans we have no pull one way or the other so really how does us discussing what we feel are short comings and ways to improve going to really effect things? It's not like if you toss out an idea BB is going to say, well ATJ lost faith we're doomed. It's all for fun in the end so I honestly don't know why people come on and say I have faith in BB and nothing more to add and some (not you) get on others when they question certain moves. Why even be on a forum at that point? You might as well only pop in during regular season to say how wonderful the team is, after they pick up a FA to say how wonderful that FA is, and right after the draft to say how wonderful those draft picks are.

    [/QUOTE]

    FYI, my son and daughter-in-law are engineers (both licensed) and I have a sense of how engineers view the world (plus I served with nuclear engineers for most of my Navy career).  I don't hold that against you ;-). 

    Hey, I'm the first one to say that there are things on that team, particularly the D, that need fixing and I don't fault anyone who has ideas on how to do it.  But, as you so appropriately point out, it is all in fun - except when it's not and people get fired up to the point where they begin to assault one another's character.  I left that crap behind in elementary school and don't really see the fun in it.

    I'd take a crack at prescribing a fix but I'd like to think that I'm a practical guy and would like to prescribe one (if I'm going to) that is truly a fix.  My problem is I don't know enough about managing the salary cap to make an intelligent contribution to such a discussion. Hell, I show my a_ss often enough on things where I actually do know something without jumping in on that.  That's why I generally defer to BB.  Not because I think he knows all but simply because I know he knows more than me. 

    Not a particularly exciting way of looking at it but there you have it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: No Loading Up This Year

    In response to jbtp05's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am posting for the first time; wanted share my opinion on this. Loading up never works. There is no method to winning superbowl - it is combination of good team plus good health in playoffs plus most importantly - few good bounces.

    This year 49ers could have easily won NFC if one pass was catched. Same thing last year with Ravens, if the safety for Broncos would have played one pass ok then Ravens would have lost that game. The year before that 49ers could have won NFC if not for couple of muffed punts. You can not load up for this bounces.

    The best loaded up team was the 2007 Patriots and we still could not win the superbowl - still sad about it :(

    It is better to be be consistent and enter playoffs every year and hope some bounces go your way one of those years. 

    [/QUOTE]

    +1 -

    This is so lost on so many here.  It is not about the personnel the team has since they all try their best to win the games, it IS about the bounces of the ball in a game.  As jbt pointed out..  recall all those "one play" events that have occurred in playoff games and remove that "one play" from the game, and the outcome is potentially totally different.  Amazing, isn't it?  It is all a dominoe effect.  One thing no team can plan on is how the freakish nature one play can impact the result of the game.  And, I am talking about a play that has everyone scratching their heads going: " How did that happen?".

     
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