No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbruu. Show bredbruu's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

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    Scouts Inc Ranked 40th

    NFL.com scouts had him ranked at the top 50. 

    The 4.43 wasn't an "official time". The official time, which weight all his runs was 4.54. Again that is coutresy of Scouts Inc who record the official time. 

    THe only websites I saw that had him secure in the first were the silly fan sites (of which there are dozens) which amount to a couple guys with a six pack, doritos, and Youtube .... and .... a subscrition to a real scouting service like Scouts Inc. 

    Sure, you are entitled to your opinion. He sounds like a mess to me. A guy who likes to punch around in man coverage, but is a nightmare when placed in any zone scheme, gets caught peeking, gets lost in the open field. I would never put a 1st round grade on a player like that. 

    At any rate, we shall watch him for sure. I bet he's garbage, or at leat a JAG.

     




    That time is what NFL.com is listing.... sooooo

     

    CBS (nfldraftscout) had him 17th overall.

    FoxSports said "With their two first-round picks, they drafted two defensive players who had top-15 grades at No. 23 and 25."

    SI graded him higher than Trufant. "Highly productive starting player. First round selection."

    Rotoworld (NBC) rated him #7 overall of juniors.

     

    I guess these guys are just silly fan sites.

    The odds are always with you when you say a pick won't work out well. But I'll go out on the limb and say this guy will be at least a starter and probably see the pro-bowl within a couple of years.

    I reserve the right to eat sweet and sour crow though if I'm wrong.

     

     

     



    Yeah, CBS is a silly fan site. It's fed by NFLdraftscout.com which is a pretty ghetto website that was created by fans, not scouts.They basically collect news and RSS feeds and coallate data and then have someone "pickem". They were the same geniuses that had everyone thinking Vernon Gholston was worth a first overal. 

     

    SI.com takes their rankings from NFP.com, the only one of them that gets I find remotely credible, even though they are staffed mostly by entertainment people.

    Rotoworld is a fantasy football website, so again peopled by couchsurfers who made good. 

    It's a testament to the lack of real reportage that they give those guys creedence of any sort. But anyone with a slick enough presentation and enough hits can get a cheap contract because most sports magazines don't want to hire people to do this full time. The problem is ... out of all of those groups, only ScoutsInc actually does this full time. The rest just show up around draft time and pick a guy with a PC and spare time to put together a board. 

    Hey, I'd trust Mel Kiper over these people ... he does this all year, and years in advance and has a bunch of people working for him full time.

    Niether he nor Scouts had this kid ranked as a first round talent, though one of them had him getting drafted there (there is a difference when you factor positional need and can't assume trades).

    I would add, that you are also betting that between Collins, Ryan, Harmon, and Legarette Blount, NE doesn't net a player that is at least as good, or some combination that is equivalent. It's a terrible bet for you ... but I'll take it in a second. For a six pack (if you drink beer) of your choice and mine likewise. 

     




    Will bet the sixpack z. What the hell, it's a hunch. And I would gladly buy you a beer for the interesting content you have provided the last few years here anyway.

     

    Hey, give me some credit. I did call out Talib as having a huge impact on the D when you asked the question last year. Sometimes a 6th sense is better than stats, scouting and film.

     

     

     



    babe havent read far enough in thread to know who your e talkin to. but when the intereste in talib was reported i was rebutted by everyone when i wrote about how we should use him(as opposed to zone) and the effect it woudl have on our def

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    i think Dobson can develop into something special. The one kid I am. Really fond of is TJ Moe. I think he will surprise some, and I could see him supplanting Jones on our roster. 

    i am curious as to how many wr's the pats keep, slater takes up a spot every year, so, most likely 5 other positions open less slater...amendola, Dobson, Edelman, Boyce, moe...that is a nice group if they can develop some chemistry with Brady. Then add our te's in and it gets real scary. Can't forget Vereen, Ridley and the newly acquired guy from Tampa...that is the making of a versatile and highly productive i offense on paper. 

     

     



    agreed but wouldnt rul eouyt bolden. kid ran through people several at a time.

     

     



    I would ... he never did that. I've seen every run he's done in the pros, and a ton from college. He's a JAG. 

     

    Betcha 20 bucks he never starts here, and is never anything special. 

    Out of all NE's running backs he's the least talented. Just a warm body.

     



    maybe so. but you missed plays or did not see teh plays i say whne he most ceratainly did run over several at a time

     



    Sorry. No. I didn't. Please provide links to his "power runs." Most power runners are evident without even citing this one run one time where he broke a tackle or two. It's all over any video collection of their talents. I mean, everyone on NE, including Woodhead, has a clip where they break an arm tackle. 

    Bolden? He's not a power runner. He's, well, just a runner. 

    I've watched every carry he has made in NE. I watched him all throughout college in the SEC where he played at Ole Miss (a major rival). I've seen him play in person at the "Magnolia bowl." I have a friend that is crazy Ole Miss obssessed (a guy named Jerry, who's met both Mannings) and was as confused about this "power" thing you talk about as anyone. 

    Let me explain. He is a JAG. He gets caught by tacklers. He falls forward for a few extra yards. That's not power running. 

    Power runners are: Usually plus weight, not 215-20, Bolden's weight, an average weight by RB standards. Even 225 is light for doing that because you don't match up well against linebackers at that weight.  

    Power runners force other teams to bring on heavier defenders.

    Power runners project their force. 

    Here are power runners, this is what they look like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvRscpZLHoM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBzROa8DTtY

    Here is Bolden vs the Tigers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYNJNNj-dd4

    He isn't even close to a power back. He tries to avoid contact. He is brought down by corners .... he is brought down by corners rather routinely as a matter of fact. 

    This is the thing that I find so vexing... he has less power than Ridley on a play to play level. Ridley is better at breaking tackles than this kid. Neither of them are power runners ... but Ridley is more a power runner than he is. 

    Please find me a collection of runs by this kid that show him running "powerfully" ... if he were this thing .... it would be easy. A lot easier than saying: "one time there was a run you've missed."  I've seen every one of the 56 carries he's made as a Patriot, and a few 100 or so of him in college. Not to mention highlights of Ole Miss games. 

    Or, re the conversation about him and Blount "competing" -- here is Blount:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UGiPWrkXY

    Nearly every run on that tape has Blount trucking someone, multiple defenders, linebackers, defensive ends, safeties. Anyone who is a "power runner" is easy to spot. Bolden ... isn't a power runner. He is just a guy.  

    Blount, is a power runner .... that is what it looks like.

    Bolden doesn't compete with him for the "power runner" role. The only reason they might even be competing for a roster spot is because Blount is a headcase on his last chance stop and Bolden is a JAG running back without exceptional power, without exceptional speed, and without exceptional vision/moves who acts as a fresh set of legs. That means both of them are a cut away from being off the team at this point. 

    All told, I hope Blount works out, because Bolden doesn't add anything whereas Blount adds a power running back that NE hasn't had in a while.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I think Logan Ryan is a better fit for the pats then Rhodes. I was high on Rhodes early, nthen really started watching him. He's good, but seemed to have tight hips. He didn't turn well and as Z said, seemed like a liability in zone.

    i think bb had a very good draft and I am counting UDFAs as well. Dobson, Boyce, Moe...nice haul at WR. Collins, buchannon can get after the passer. We got a good 3-4th corner on Ryan, who might be a starting corner next, and a hard hitting little known safety that should make light in the pants Gregory expendable. 

     




    It is said he doesn't play zone well. But then, he hasn't played for BB. You can't coach his size and his innate cover skills. But, you can coach a system.

     

     

     



    waht i have read everywhere is ryan doesnt play press man, too slow andmay have to move to safety

     



    Bred, I think he is talking about Rhodes man.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    Scouts Inc Ranked 40th

    NFL.com scouts had him ranked at the top 50. 

    The 4.43 wasn't an "official time". The official time, which weight all his runs was 4.54. Again that is coutresy of Scouts Inc who record the official time. 

    THe only websites I saw that had him secure in the first were the silly fan sites (of which there are dozens) which amount to a couple guys with a six pack, doritos, and Youtube .... and .... a subscrition to a real scouting service like Scouts Inc. 

    Sure, you are entitled to your opinion. He sounds like a mess to me. A guy who likes to punch around in man coverage, but is a nightmare when placed in any zone scheme, gets caught peeking, gets lost in the open field. I would never put a 1st round grade on a player like that. 

    At any rate, we shall watch him for sure. I bet he's garbage, or at leat a JAG.

     




    That time is what NFL.com is listing.... sooooo

     

    CBS (nfldraftscout) had him 17th overall.

    FoxSports said "With their two first-round picks, they drafted two defensive players who had top-15 grades at No. 23 and 25."

    SI graded him higher than Trufant. "Highly productive starting player. First round selection."

    Rotoworld (NBC) rated him #7 overall of juniors.

     

    I guess these guys are just silly fan sites.

    The odds are always with you when you say a pick won't work out well. But I'll go out on the limb and say this guy will be at least a starter and probably see the pro-bowl within a couple of years.

    I reserve the right to eat sweet and sour crow though if I'm wrong.

     

     

     



    Yeah, CBS is a silly fan site. It's fed by NFLdraftscout.com which is a pretty ghetto website that was created by fans, not scouts.They basically collect news and RSS feeds and coallate data and then have someone "pickem". They were the same geniuses that had everyone thinking Vernon Gholston was worth a first overal. 

     

    SI.com takes their rankings from NFP.com, the only one of them that gets I find remotely credible, even though they are staffed mostly by entertainment people.

    Rotoworld is a fantasy football website, so again peopled by couchsurfers who made good. 

    It's a testament to the lack of real reportage that they give those guys creedence of any sort. But anyone with a slick enough presentation and enough hits can get a cheap contract because most sports magazines don't want to hire people to do this full time. The problem is ... out of all of those groups, only ScoutsInc actually does this full time. The rest just show up around draft time and pick a guy with a PC and spare time to put together a board. 

    Hey, I'd trust Mel Kiper over these people ... he does this all year, and years in advance and has a bunch of people working for him full time.

    Niether he nor Scouts had this kid ranked as a first round talent, though one of them had him getting drafted there (there is a difference when you factor positional need and can't assume trades).

    I would add, that you are also betting that between Collins, Ryan, Harmon, and Legarette Blount, NE doesn't net a player that is at least as good, or some combination that is equivalent. It's a terrible bet for you ... but I'll take it in a second. For a six pack (if you drink beer) of your choice and mine likewise. 

     




    Will bet the sixpack z. What the hell, it's a hunch. And I would gladly buy you a beer for the interesting content you have provided the last few years here anyway.

     

    Hey, give me some credit. I did call out Talib as having a huge impact on the D when you asked the question last year. Sometimes a 6th sense is better than stats, scouting and film.

     

     

     


    I'm not taking any credit away from you dude.

    It's just football talk. I hate this draft class, especially at the fringe of the first where you are paying first round cash for kids that have gaping holes in their game. 

    You like the kid Rhodes. Cool. 

    I a.) don't think trading for him was even an option this season, b.) don't think corner was a priority at that level [NE needs a dime corner bad though] c.) don't think he is a first round NFL prospect, but a second round prospect, and d.) because he is a "man" corner he doesn't fit well with what NE does often anyhow [noting that they do tend to play man a little more often when they don't have scrubs on the outside like Butler or Arrington].

    I happen to think that Collins, Ryan, Boyce, and Blount, is a way better bet. Between the four of them a probowl (breakout) is more likely, and they meet the needs NE has (pass rusher, dime corner, X WR, power runner) more completely. Even if Collins becomes a sub-rusher/3rd down guy, Ryan is a decent dime, Boyce is an average X or even spread guy,  and Blount hooks NE up with a few years of heavy running, then I would take that over anything short of a lights out, top ten corner .. because from last season, a healthy Dennard and Talib are a perfectly adequate duo if the safety situation isn't a train wreck and NE can find somone who can actually rush the QB/match a TE opposite Jones.  

    You think he's got the goods. Time will tell. I don't mind buying a beer for you at all -- especially if I'm wrong and he is a pro-bowler like you think he will be.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    Agree on Blount Z. He is a power runner, but watching him, he seems to generate most of his power from momentum. Meaning, he becomes a power runner when he builds up a little steam, rather than moving a pile for 2 yards and a first doWn.

    blount is clearly troubled. If he can keep his hands to himself. He and everyone around him should be okay. What worries me is this guy will punch first and ask questions later. Bb doesn't do stupid well, so if this meathead costs the pats yardage or a game, he can roll himself up and burn his way out of foxborough. 

     
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    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    Good Post ZB, glad to have you back. 60+ targets with zero drops seems unreal. Who do you think get the most touches/targets Moe, Dobson, or Boyce. For me its Dobson.

     
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    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Agree on Blount Z. He is a power runner, but watching him, he seems to generate most of his power from momentum. Meaning, he becomes a power runner when he builds up a little steam, rather than moving a pile for 2 yards and a first doWn.

    blount is clearly troubled. If he can keep his hands to himself. He and everyone around him should be okay. What worries me is this guy will punch first and ask questions later. Bb doesn't do stupid well, so if this meathead costs the pats yardage or a game, he can roll himself up and burn his way out of foxborough. 



    Ha. My bet is he is off the team in a month or so. Just my gut feeling. Too bad, he was quite a talent. 

    Most "power runners" use momentum. The best have a quick step to get that momentum, Bettis being the best in my time. 

    My point is mostly about this forum. It's like, NE gets a JAG back who doesn't do anything exceptionally like BJGE, but runs north to south, and keeps his feet turning, and everyone talks about them as a "power back" when they aren't. 

    A guy like Brandon Jacobs is a power back.... 260 lbs.... a steamroller. He literally attacks people at the second level.

    A guy like BJGE or Boldin who are 215-220 and north south runners are just running backs without a lot of moves, but enough football smarts to know you don't run sideways if you don't have the speed to do it. They could even be a guy with a tough running style .... but they aren't a power back.

    The biggest piece of evidence is use. Boldin doesn't come in in short yardage/gl, they just use Ridley. Boldin is usally mixed in when Ridley's been getting a ton of carries, or NE is in a blowout. 

    He is just a "fresh legs" back ... that is how NE uses him. When they need short yardage (a.k.a. power running) they use Ridley, because he is the exact same size/power and a more gifted runner.

     
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    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    Good Post ZB, glad to have you back. 60+ targets with zero drops seems unreal. Who do you think get the most touches/targets Moe, Dobson, or Boyce. For me its Dobson.



    I would bet on Dobson long term. My feeling is that they'll have more routes for Boyce to run because he is a kid who can play from the slot.  So maybe Boyce in the first half, Dobson in the second/playoffs?

    I'm not sure the chances are great any of them are getting a ton of touches this season. 

     
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    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    Why would BB deal a 7th if he felt that Blount would only be around for "a month"?

    Odd.

    This guy will be in camp and they'll see where he's at. It might be a month and he gets Addai'd or something, but I don't know why you'd deal a 7th just to see something.

    BB has a direct B Line to Schiano and Schiano isn't going to lie to him.  



    I don't know. BB loves to gamble on troubled players. Some times it works. Some times it doesn't. 

    BB was trading problems. Demps isn't really committed to football. Blount likes to punch things ... and by things I mean people, and often. TB has a new star back. Potentially a win win. Either way, from BB's perspective it's worth a roll of the dice.

    Albert Haynesworth was acquired for a fifth rounder. He played in NE for a month and a half, was benched, and placed on waivers. 

    My gut feeling just has to do with Blount's attitude. He didn't like sharing carries. He has a violent personality. Hopefully I'm wrong. He adds a pretty awesome running back to the roster if he stays out of trouble and just plays. 

     
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    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    Also Z, agree on Blount. He gets touches, but is not a power runner. IMHO Blount runs a bit to upright and thus susceptible to injury. As role player on the offense I think he does that. Funny thing is I think I had him on a Pats draft thread somewhere around the 6th or 7th. I recall his draft status fell immensely after suspension (the infamous punch). Could be a good player, but cannot take undisciplined penalties (let Lions do that)IMHO,, is still only 27 and does not have to much tread (too many carries) on the tire.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

     

    Because Demps wants to run track, not play football? Wth Demps you get a kid who won't be playing full time. The 7th and Demps is a decent gamble because he isn't committed to football. You know what Demps is going to give you ... a part time kid who might, one day, be a KR or slashback or something, if he has the dedication, which it doesn't appear he does.  

    With Blount you get someone who could possibly add a real power threat to your running game. You don't know what you are getting, but there is potential it's a lot more than what Demps offers, which at the moment looks like bupkiss. 

    If Blount is a psycho you cut bait. You lose nothing but a 7th which is as cheap as it gets short of a bag of footballs.

    The only reason I feel like Blount won't last long is because players with violent problems (Larry Johnson, etc) don't tend to get their act straight. It's not Moss or Dillon who were sour about playing for a loser. Blount has what looks like real issues.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and he is past it. He would be the best pure runner on the team if he hasn't lost a step. 

     

     
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    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

     

    Because Demps wants to run track, not play football? Wth Demps you get a kid who won't be playing full time. The 7th and Demps is a decent gamble because he isn't committed to football. You know what Demps is going to give you ... a part time kid who might, one day, be a KR or slashback or something, if he has the dedication, which it doesn't appear he does.  

    With Blount you get someone who could possibly add a real power threat to your running game. You don't know what you are getting, but there is potential it's a lot more than what Demps offers, which at the moment looks like bupkiss. 

    If Blount is a psycho you cut bait. You lose nothing but a 7th which is as cheap as it gets short of a bag of footballs.

    The only reason I feel like Blount won't last long is because players with violent problems (Larry Johnson, etc) don't tend to get their act straight. It's not Moss or Dillon who were sour about playing for a loser. Blount has what looks like real issues.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and he is past it. He would be the best pure runner on the team if he hasn't lost a step. 

     

     




    I guess what I am saying is, why did he value renting Blount for only "a month" if he knew Schiano was moving on from Blount?  You wouldn't give up a 7th. I think Schiano wanted the 7th because we all know a part time Demps is highly unlikely to work.

     

    You said he might only be here for a month. So, if Schiano is speaking in a way that shows he may cut Blount, wouldnt it make sense for BB to not give up the 7th in a swap for two problem children straight up?

    BB was going to cut Demps. He signed Washington knowing Demps was done.

    I think BB likes Blount's game which is why he didn't care about adding on the 7th rd pick.

     

     

    Well, he is not planning on the dude leaving. He's also not planning on him contributing. If he were 'banking" on Blount he may have released someone else. He'd also be crazy.

    He is gambling with dirt cheap money. 

    2008 -suspended for fighting with a HC

             -suspended for skipping workouts

    2009 -suspended for punching an opponent, a teammate, and verbally fighting with players and needing to be restrained

    2010 - Placed on waivers after punching a teammate in training camp. 

    That is Blount's history before his breakout season in TB. Also, there is a lot of evidence that Blount was slipping or was a one year wonder. I know the reporters in TB think he was washed up, and the concensus was that he was a one-trick pony.

    I'll leave it at what Rotoworld offers:

    "Blount is little more than a veteran flier for a Pats team that's already four deep at running back, but they'll presumably see how he fares as a short-yardage hammer in cam"

    "In terms of early-down backs, Blount is third behind Stevan Ridley and Brandon Bolden. Shane Vereen and Leon Washington are the passing-down backs. The Patriots did give up a seventh-round pick to get Blount, but he's certainly not a strong bet to make the final roster."

    It's a gamble. Bring the guy into camp, see if he fits and he can do the power running stuff NE needs and he doesn't sock Bob Kraft in the chops. Go from there. A 7th rounder isn't worth much, so if he can't, you cut him. 

    I'm sure he likes Blount's potential. He is 245 pounds, but he has quick feet (or he used to, he hasn't really been tested in a season). He also probably has eyes wide open about the issues this guy can potentially bring. I'm sure he is also informed of his discipline problems around the goaline (he isn't the savviest GL runner). 

    But Demps is a bigger issue than Blount. What would TB get if they just got Demps? A kid who doesn't want to play football full time, and is at best a KR? 

    At any rate, this is too much Blount talk. Start a Blount thread, and people can continue it there. He was only brought up because I thought that Collins, Ryan, Boyce, and Blount was a better bet than Rhodes, who I think is an overrated prospect. 

    And that only started because I wanted a rocking Dobson appreciation thread, because I think people snuff at 2nd round picks too often. He is someone I'm stoked about. 

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    Scouts Inc Ranked 40th

    NFL.com scouts had him ranked at the top 50. 

    The 4.43 wasn't an "official time". The official time, which weight all his runs was 4.54. Again that is coutresy of Scouts Inc who record the official time. 

    THe only websites I saw that had him secure in the first were the silly fan sites (of which there are dozens) which amount to a couple guys with a six pack, doritos, and Youtube .... and .... a subscrition to a real scouting service like Scouts Inc. 

    Sure, you are entitled to your opinion. He sounds like a mess to me. A guy who likes to punch around in man coverage, but is a nightmare when placed in any zone scheme, gets caught peeking, gets lost in the open field. I would never put a 1st round grade on a player like that. 

    At any rate, we shall watch him for sure. I bet he's garbage, or at leat a JAG.

     




    That time is what NFL.com is listing.... sooooo

     

    CBS (nfldraftscout) had him 17th overall.

    FoxSports said "With their two first-round picks, they drafted two defensive players who had top-15 grades at No. 23 and 25."

    SI graded him higher than Trufant. "Highly productive starting player. First round selection."

    Rotoworld (NBC) rated him #7 overall of juniors.

     

    I guess these guys are just silly fan sites.

    The odds are always with you when you say a pick won't work out well. But I'll go out on the limb and say this guy will be at least a starter and probably see the pro-bowl within a couple of years.

    I reserve the right to eat sweet and sour crow though if I'm wrong.

     

     

     



    Yeah, CBS is a silly fan site. It's fed by NFLdraftscout.com which is a pretty ghetto website that was created by fans, not scouts.They basically collect news and RSS feeds and coallate data and then have someone "pickem". They were the same geniuses that had everyone thinking Vernon Gholston was worth a first overal. 

     

    SI.com takes their rankings from NFP.com, the only one of them that gets I find remotely credible, even though they are staffed mostly by entertainment people.

    Rotoworld is a fantasy football website, so again peopled by couchsurfers who made good. 

    It's a testament to the lack of real reportage that they give those guys creedence of any sort. But anyone with a slick enough presentation and enough hits can get a cheap contract because most sports magazines don't want to hire people to do this full time. The problem is ... out of all of those groups, only ScoutsInc actually does this full time. The rest just show up around draft time and pick a guy with a PC and spare time to put together a board. 

    Hey, I'd trust Mel Kiper over these people ... he does this all year, and years in advance and has a bunch of people working for him full time.

    Niether he nor Scouts had this kid ranked as a first round talent, though one of them had him getting drafted there (there is a difference when you factor positional need and can't assume trades).

    I would add, that you are also betting that between Collins, Ryan, Harmon, and Legarette Blount, NE doesn't net a player that is at least as good, or some combination that is equivalent. It's a terrible bet for you ... but I'll take it in a second. For a six pack (if you drink beer) of your choice and mine likewise. 

     




    Will bet the sixpack z. What the hell, it's a hunch. And I would gladly buy you a beer for the interesting content you have provided the last few years here anyway.

     

    Hey, give me some credit. I did call out Talib as having a huge impact on the D when you asked the question last year. Sometimes a 6th sense is better than stats, scouting and film.

     

     

     

     



    babe havent read far enough in thread to know who your e talkin to. but when the intereste in talib was reported i was rebutted by everyone when i wrote about how we should use him(as opposed to zone) and the effect it woudl have on our def

     




    zbellino started a thread about what we expected his impact would be once he was acquired. I said it would be huge. Don't know that I had any opinion before we got him.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    Who are we talking about now? Dobson?

    i think Dobson will be productive this year for a rook and in a complicated offense, with a few guys ahead of him on target hierarchy. 

    my guess...40 receptions, 655 yards, 5 TDs. I can live with that, and it would be huge especiaLy if we get production out of Danny, Gronk, Hern and Ballard...I think Boyce will chip in also, same with Edelman...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbruu. Show bredbruu's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I think Logan Ryan is a better fit for the pats then Rhodes. I was high on Rhodes early, nthen really started watching him. He's good, but seemed to have tight hips. He didn't turn well and as Z said, seemed like a liability in zone.

    i think bb had a very good draft and I am counting UDFAs as well. Dobson, Boyce, Moe...nice haul at WR. Collins, buchannon can get after the passer. We got a good 3-4th corner on Ryan, who might be a starting corner next, and a hard hitting little known safety that should make light in the pants Gregory expendable. 

     




    It is said he doesn't play zone well. But then, he hasn't played for BB. You can't coach his size and his innate cover skills. But, you can coach a system.

     

     

     



    waht i have read everywhere is ryan doesnt play press man, too slow andmay have to move to safety

     

     



    Bred, I think he is talking about Rhodes man.

     



    thanks bra, may have been too fatigued

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbruu. Show bredbruu's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    Scouts Inc Ranked 40th

    NFL.com scouts had him ranked at the top 50. 

    The 4.43 wasn't an "official time". The official time, which weight all his runs was 4.54. Again that is coutresy of Scouts Inc who record the official time. 

    THe only websites I saw that had him secure in the first were the silly fan sites (of which there are dozens) which amount to a couple guys with a six pack, doritos, and Youtube .... and .... a subscrition to a real scouting service like Scouts Inc. 

    Sure, you are entitled to your opinion. He sounds like a mess to me. A guy who likes to punch around in man coverage, but is a nightmare when placed in any zone scheme, gets caught peeking, gets lost in the open field. I would never put a 1st round grade on a player like that. 

    At any rate, we shall watch him for sure. I bet he's garbage, or at leat a JAG.

     




    That time is what NFL.com is listing.... sooooo

     

    CBS (nfldraftscout) had him 17th overall.

    FoxSports said "With their two first-round picks, they drafted two defensive players who had top-15 grades at No. 23 and 25."

    SI graded him higher than Trufant. "Highly productive starting player. First round selection."

    Rotoworld (NBC) rated him #7 overall of juniors.

     

    I guess these guys are just silly fan sites.

    The odds are always with you when you say a pick won't work out well. But I'll go out on the limb and say this guy will be at least a starter and probably see the pro-bowl within a couple of years.

    I reserve the right to eat sweet and sour crow though if I'm wrong.

     

     

     



    Yeah, CBS is a silly fan site. It's fed by NFLdraftscout.com which is a pretty ghetto website that was created by fans, not scouts.They basically collect news and RSS feeds and coallate data and then have someone "pickem". They were the same geniuses that had everyone thinking Vernon Gholston was worth a first overal. 

     

    SI.com takes their rankings from NFP.com, the only one of them that gets I find remotely credible, even though they are staffed mostly by entertainment people.

    Rotoworld is a fantasy football website, so again peopled by couchsurfers who made good. 

    It's a testament to the lack of real reportage that they give those guys creedence of any sort. But anyone with a slick enough presentation and enough hits can get a cheap contract because most sports magazines don't want to hire people to do this full time. The problem is ... out of all of those groups, only ScoutsInc actually does this full time. The rest just show up around draft time and pick a guy with a PC and spare time to put together a board. 

    Hey, I'd trust Mel Kiper over these people ... he does this all year, and years in advance and has a bunch of people working for him full time.

    Niether he nor Scouts had this kid ranked as a first round talent, though one of them had him getting drafted there (there is a difference when you factor positional need and can't assume trades).

    I would add, that you are also betting that between Collins, Ryan, Harmon, and Legarette Blount, NE doesn't net a player that is at least as good, or some combination that is equivalent. It's a terrible bet for you ... but I'll take it in a second. For a six pack (if you drink beer) of your choice and mine likewise. 

     




    Will bet the sixpack z. What the hell, it's a hunch. And I would gladly buy you a beer for the interesting content you have provided the last few years here anyway.

     

    Hey, give me some credit. I did call out Talib as having a huge impact on the D when you asked the question last year. Sometimes a 6th sense is better than stats, scouting and film.

     

     

     

     



    babe havent read far enough in thread to know who your e talkin to. but when the intereste in talib was reported i was rebutted by everyone when i wrote about how we should use him(as opposed to zone) and the effect it woudl have on our def

     

     




    zbellino started a thread about what we expected his impact would be once he was acquired. I said it would be huge. Don't know that I had any opinion before we got him.

     



    k.

    did you see the firestorm after my posts around the time?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    i think Dobson can develop into something special. The one kid I am. Really fond of is TJ Moe. I think he will surprise some, and I could see him supplanting Jones on our roster. 

    i am curious as to how many wr's the pats keep, slater takes up a spot every year, so, most likely 5 other positions open less slater...amendola, Dobson, Edelman, Boyce, moe...that is a nice group if they can develop some chemistry with Brady. Then add our te's in and it gets real scary. Can't forget Vereen, Ridley and the newly acquired guy from Tampa...that is the making of a versatile and highly productive i offense on paper. 

     

     



    agreed but wouldnt rul eouyt bolden. kid ran through people several at a time.

     

     



    I would ... he never did that. I've seen every run he's done in the pros, and a ton from college. He's a JAG. 

     

    Betcha 20 bucks he never starts here, and is never anything special. 

    Out of all NE's running backs he's the least talented. Just a warm body.

     



    maybe so. but you missed plays or did not see teh plays i say whne he most ceratainly did run over several at a time

     

     



    Sorry. No. I didn't. Please provide links to his "power runs." Most power runners are evident without even citing this one run one time where he broke a tackle or two. It's all over any video collection of their talents. I mean, everyone on NE, including Woodhead, has a clip where they break an arm tackle. 

     

    Bolden? He's not a power runner. He's, well, just a runner. 

    I've watched every carry he has made in NE. I watched him all throughout college in the SEC where he played at Ole Miss (a major rival). I've seen him play in person at the "Magnolia bowl." I have a friend that is crazy Ole Miss obssessed (a guy named Jerry, who's met both Mannings) and was as confused about this "power" thing you talk about as anyone. 

    Let me explain. He is a JAG. He gets caught by tacklers. He falls forward for a few extra yards. That's not power running. 

    Power runners are: Usually plus weight, not 215-20, Bolden's weight, an average weight by RB standards. Even 225 is light for doing that because you don't match up well against linebackers at that weight.  

    Power runners force other teams to bring on heavier defenders.

    Power runners project their force. 

    Here are power runners, this is what they look like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvRscpZLHoM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBzROa8DTtY

    Here is Bolden vs the Tigers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYNJNNj-dd4

    He isn't even close to a power back. He tries to avoid contact. He is brought down by corners .... he is brought down by corners rather routinely as a matter of fact. 

    This is the thing that I find so vexing... he has less power than Ridley on a play to play level. Ridley is better at breaking tackles than this kid. Neither of them are power runners ... but Ridley is more a power runner than he is. 

    Please find me a collection of runs by this kid that show him running "powerfully" ... if he were this thing .... it would be easy. A lot easier than saying: "one time there was a run you've missed."  I've seen every one of the 56 carries he's made as a Patriot, and a few 100 or so of him in college. Not to mention highlights of Ole Miss games. 

    Or, re the conversation about him and Blount "competing" -- here is Blount:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UGiPWrkXY

    Nearly every run on that tape has Blount trucking someone, multiple defenders, linebackers, defensive ends, safeties. Anyone who is a "power runner" is easy to spot. Bolden ... isn't a power runner. He is just a guy.  

    Blount, is a power runner .... that is what it looks like.

    Bolden doesn't compete with him for the "power runner" role. The only reason they might even be competing for a roster spot is because Blount is a headcase on his last chance stop and Bolden is a JAG running back without exceptional power, without exceptional speed, and without exceptional vision/moves who acts as a fresh set of legs. That means both of them are a cut away from being off the team at this point. 

    All told, I hope Blount works out, because Bolden doesn't add anything whereas Blount adds a power running back that NE hasn't had in a while.

     



    Couple of things, the catch was amazing. He had a few great catches last year.

    On the Blount thing above I disagree with. I watched Blount last year and just because he is a big back doesn't mean he is a power back. This guy looked horrible running behind the same line Martin looked amazing with. He was stuffed at the goal line almost every time he had a touch. I wouldn't categorize BJGE as a top power back, but his vision in the red zone and ability to fall forward makes him 10 times the RB Blount has ever been. "Power back" or whatever you want to call it...

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    And honestly, "Blount adds a power back that n.e hasn't had in sometime"???

    Again, because the guy is 250 pounds doesn't mean he is a power back! Or not a good one anyway. He gets swallowed up at the L.O.S and needs a gaping hole with full steam ahead in order to break a tackle. He has around 230 carries for 900 something yards and 7 tds in his last 2 seasons.

    I'd rather see Ridley or Bolden at the goal line, or for a yard. Or BJGE for that matter.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to bredbruu's comment:

     

    k.

     

    did you see the firestorm after my posts around the time?


    Don't recall them specifically. But then, you've had a lot of firestorms.

    You were right. He was a big difference maker.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: No one remembers Dobson from ESPN?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    And honestly, "Blount adds a power back that n.e hasn't had in sometime"???

    Again, because the guy is 250 pounds doesn't mean he is a power back! Or not a good one anyway. He gets swallowed up at the L.O.S and needs a gaping hole with full steam ahead in order to break a tackle. He has around 230 carries for 900 something yards and 7 tds in his last 2 seasons.

    I'd rather see Ridley or Bolden at the goal line, or for a yard. Or BJGE for that matter.




    From what I have seen TB fans say, you are correct. His rookie year is pretty impressive though.

     
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