NO WAY!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    NO WAY!!!

    How dare they say it - Read on for the answer

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9665338/NFL's-top-99-player-rankings-for-'09?GT1=39002

    I am sure some of you were waiting on this from me.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsRfineIn09. Show PatsRfineIn09's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    PM wins the peoples choice award again, how shocking, i am good with it as long as WE beat your  ponies this year.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Once again you point out who wins the populartiy contest in the media. No big news here, just you trying to toot your own horn. Of course, us Patriots fans could give a rat's a s s about whose jock the idiots in the press are hanging on to! Both Brady and Manning are unquestionably the best QBs in the league by a pretty decent margin. But this reporter's logic is flawed. He puts Brady second because Matt Cassel went 11-5. If Manning was injured Cassel (or a QB who performed as well as he did last season) could probably still guide the Colts to 10 or 11 wins as well. So you merely need to isolate postseason performance to see who is the better of the two. Brady is 14-3, with three rings. Manning is 8-8 with one ring. I won't dig deeper, but feel free to look up stats like TD/INT ratio. I'm sure that you will find there is a much larger gap between these two when it counts the most. And that is why I personally would take Brady every day over Manning, and ten times on Sunday! Once again, you waste our time here, underdogg! I don't know what you are trying to acheive here. You may not be an ignorant troll like Leon, but you are foolish if you think you can make any of us buy into this c r a p.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from justme2. Show justme2's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    How dare they say it - Read on for the answer http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9665338/NFL's-top-99-player-rankings-for-'09?GT1=39002 I am sure some of you were waiting on this from me.
    Posted by underdogg


    Tom Brady loses players and coaches every year.. PM has one season with injured players and they want to make him a saint.. It's almost too stupid to even comment on..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Tom Brady loses players and coaches every year.. PM has one season with injured players and they want to make him a saint.. It's almost too stupid to even comment on..
    Posted by justme2


    This list has Cassell listed as #67.....LOL!!!


    Can we help it if the idiot who made the list up is an Indy homer?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Just havin' a little fun. 

    But it does beg the question - why when someone says manning is better does every pat fan say call it a popularity pick. 

    How come pats fans can't comprehend that in fact Manning could be better than Brady?  I am not saying he is.  I think it is more of a 1A or 1B thing.  But I honestly don't understand the immediate dismissal of Manning being better than Brady based on anything other than fandom.   

    Bub - I have to turn this around on you a bit.  I have read here how Manning got his numbers by being surrounded by the best offensive players in the league while brady toiled and succeeded with much less.  If that arguement was true (which is a different arguement) it certainly wasn't true in 2007 when the pats went 18-0 but couldn't get the job done.  That team exceeded many of the previously set offensive records both as a team and individually.  By contrast, last year the colts did not have much of the offensive team that set the records in 2004. 
     - 1/2 of Harrison, No Stokley (no gonzalez has not yet met that level of excellence), no James (and Addai was hurt all year), and no solid line due to multiple injuries. 

    That is why the writer picked manning, because he succeeded despite his own, and his offensive teammates multiple injuries not to mention significant injuries on the defense which also limited their play.  The colts won games last year by the skin of their teeth and much of it was due to manning.  So while the pats maintained in 2008 much of the offense and players that attained such greatness in 2007, the colts were a shell of themselves and are clearly no longer the offensive team they were in 04.  Matt Cassel would have been lucky to win 7 games with the colts last year (even if he had 4 years on the bench to learn). 

    m10 - I need to go back and tally the Cassell lovers and bashers, most were lovers until he got traded.  Are you saying you have always been a cassell basher?  And by the way - if the writer makes cassell #67, how does that make him an indy homer?   I'd say with him putting 6 pats in the top 100 (not including cassell) and only 4 colts (by excluding clark and saturday) he clearly is siding with the pats more than indy.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    I'd rather have Brady anyday.  You mention Peyton's success last year despite the injuries.  The Pats typically lose a lot of players to injuries every year, just as Peyton experienced with Indy last year.  Hardly a year goes by where the Pats aren't pummeled with injuries.  I thought 2006 was one of Brady's best years.  I know that sounds ridiculous considering how 2007 went, but in 2006 Brady had what was probably his worst crop of receivers.  We were also hit hard with injuries.  Being at the playoff game here in San Diego when the Pats knocked them off was sweet.  

    All that said, Peyton is a great quarterback and will be remembered as one for a long time.  I like Brady better, but at least they didn't put some scrub on top.  There is one thing I really need to know about Peyton however; when things are going bad for him in a game, is he actually crying or does it only appear that way?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    How dare they say it - Read on for the answer http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9665338/NFL's-top-99-player-rankings-for-'09?GT1=39002 I am sure some of you were waiting on this from me.
    Posted by underdogg

    Payton over Brady? debatable but wrong in my opinion. Moss at #29? NO WAY!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Brady has 3 rings
    Manning has one

    Enough said!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Another reason I would rather have Brady is the fact he never throws anyone under the bus. PM is already crying about next season! To much of a crybaby for my taste! Go Pats!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tojo. Show tojo's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    I thought the 07 SB was one of Brady's finest moments.  Relentless pressure blows up the offensive game plan all day and he still manages a go ahead TD drive in the final minutes.  And didnt throw the O line under the bus after the game.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    I don't know how you guys can look at these images of one of the NFL's most successful quarterbacks and not see an indomitable leader of men . . .

















     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Underdogg....

    This topic is very subjective as we have many in the media who pick Brady.  Fan loyalty is quite obvious between the Pats fans here and your "home", which you seem to have made here.

    In a nutshell, if it is a statistical battle, Manning wins.  Why?  The Colts built an offense around HIM and said we go with Manning and will live and die by what our offense does.  The Pats didn't exactly build an offense around Brady and in the year they did we all know what happened statistically for TB.  TB wins in the quality of wins category coming out with 3 SB rings (4 total SB appearances) to Manning's 1 SB ring (1 SB appearance).  Granted, niether player can do it without the team around them, they surely didn't achieve what they did single handedly.  All in all, though, the Pats weren't focused on Brady and the offense as the Colts have been on Manning and their offense.  It will be an interesting 2 - 3 years, presuming the current Pats receiver roster stays intact, in which Brady now has some quality receivers to throw to in which opposing defenses need to pay attention.  The debates will always rage and on as we will never see a real concensus as to who is best.  1A & 1B seem to be the rule these days..
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    How come pats fans can't comprehend that in fact Manning could be better than Brady?  I am not saying he is.  I think it is more of a 1A or 1B thing.  But I honestly don't understand the immediate dismissal of Manning being better than Brady based on anything other than fandom.   

    You evidently have chosen to ignore or forget the reasons we here have stated. In my own post I called them the two best by a sizeable margin. I'll now repeat why (IMO, and a lot of others) Brady should be considered "1A" and Manning "1B". Three SB rings to one (and NE beat Indy twice head to head in the playoffs to earn those rings), and moreso their postseason records...14-3 compared to 8-8. I cannot state it any more clearly than that. I know you are not stupid like the pure trolls who ramble on about BS (like Leon and all his alter-egos). Your failure to accept this (or even try and dispute it) proves you are a bigger "homer" than I am. Nothing wrong with being loyal to your team, but these are reasons above and beyond "fandom" which IMO is a legitimate basis to disagree with anyone putting Manning ahead of Brady.


    Bub - I have to turn this around on you a bit.  I have read here how Manning got his numbers by being surrounded by the best offensive players in the league while brady toiled and succeeded with much less.  If that arguement was true (which is a different arguement) it certainly wasn't true in 2007 when the pats went 18-0 but couldn't get the job done.  That team exceeded many of the previously set offensive records both as a team and individually.

    How is that "turning this around"? It only goes to validate that very point. Brady won three championships with "average" weapons. The one year he had an offense comparable to what the Colts have had regularly, he took the team to 18 wins! As far as not "getting the job done", I'll use your old line...you can't blame the QB. In the waning minutes of the 4th quarter he took the team down for a go-ahead score (against the best defense in the league that postseason). It was the defense who failed to stop the Giants on that last drive. So when Tom had as good a supporting cast, he bettered Peyton's historic stats.

    That is why the writer picked manning, because he succeeded despite his own, and his offensive teammates multiple injuries not to mention significant injuries on the defense which also limited their play.   

    Multiple injuries? As if NE did not have as many if not more? You can't even call the injury situation in 08 a wash! How many games would the Colts have won with Sorgi at QB? Half the Patriots' defense was on IR by December, and Cassel had to put up a lot of points to win down the stretch. This is a non-point if ever I heard one.

    The colts won games last year by the skin of their teeth and much of it was due to manning.
       

    At least three of their games were won by the opposition either giving the ball away repeatedly or by stupid penalties. Manning simply played to the level he is accustomed to.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from joshkp55. Show joshkp55's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    my biggest question is how isnt vince wilfork on this list and reggie bush is? this guy doesnt know what hes talking about
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Hmm. Let's See. I would definitely pick Manning.

    Of course, I would pick him if the bus was having trouble and I needed help getting under the bus to see what might be wrong. Or if I was having a wine and cheese party (I wouldn't, but this is hypothetical.) and we were running short on whine. Lastly, if I wanted to be brought back from retirement because of some petulant grand-standing, I would certainly pick Peyton.

    What? You meant who would I pick if I wanted to win? Oh.

    Without a doubt. Brady.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ricky1554atl. Show ricky1554atl's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Manning and Brady are both great quarterbacks. I don't think anyone will contest that fact. Even if I wasn't a Patriots fan, I would still take Brady over Peyton. Simple reason being, Brady has led his team to 4 Super Bowls and Manning only 1. Head to head Brady has the advantage in wins. Are there any more meaningful stats then those two? I do think in the years to come, after both have retired, they will be looked at as the Magic Johnson and Larry Bird of their sport, if not already. Of course the NBA was really struggling when Bird and Magic arrived and they both saved their sport. Not so in the NFL. But the debate will always be there.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsGhost. Show RedsGhost's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    But it does beg the question - why when someone says manning is better does every pat fan say call it a popularity pick. 

    Ummm duh, cause it is !!!!!!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    I don't know how you guys can look at these images of one of the NFL's most successful quarterbacks and not see an indomitable leader of men . . .
    Posted by prairiemike


    You missed one...]




     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    How dare they say it - Read on for the answer http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9665338/NFL's-top-99-player-rankings-for-'09?GT1=39002 I am sure some of you were waiting on this from me.
    Posted by underdogg


    Nobody cares what sports writers think except you. Manning can be touted as the greatest QB in history as long as we kick his rear when we play him
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    I will give Manning one thing above above Brady. Peyton is definately better at sensually licking an oreo while staring lovingly into the eyes of his brother.

    Brady just scores beautiful women
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    How come pats fans can't comprehend that in fact Manning could be better than Brady?  I am not saying he is.  I think it is more of a 1A or 1B thing.  But I honestly don't understand the immediate dismissal of Manning being better than Brady based on anything other than fandom.   

    You evidently have chosen to ignore or forget the reasons we here have stated. In my own post I called them the two best by a sizeable margin. I'll now repeat why (IMO, and a lot of others) Brady should be considered "1A" and Manning "1B". Three SB rings to one (and NE beat Indy twice head to head in the playoffs to earn those rings), and moreso their postseason records...14-3 compared to 8-8. I cannot state it any more clearly than that. I know you are not stupid like the pure trolls who ramble on about BS (like Leon and all his alter-egos). Your failure to accept this (or even try and dispute it) proves you are a bigger "homer" than I am. Nothing wrong with being loyal to your team, but these are reasons above and beyond "fandom" which IMO is a legitimate basis to disagree with anyone putting Manning ahead of Brady.

    My comments do not apply to everyone, but certainly the majority here quickly dismiss Manning.  I think it is reasonable for you to rely on postseason record as your reasoning for why you think Brady is better. 



    Bub - I have to turn this around on you a bit.  I have read here how Manning got his numbers by being surrounded by the best offensive players in the league while brady toiled and succeeded with much less.  If that arguement was true (which is a different arguement) it certainly wasn't true in 2007 when the pats went 18-0 but couldn't get the job done.  That team exceeded many of the previously set offensive records both as a team and individually.

    How is that "turning this around"? It only goes to validate that very point. Brady won three championships with "average" weapons. The one year he had an offense comparable to what the Colts have had regularly, he took the team to 18 wins! As far as not "getting the job done", I'll use your old line...you can't blame the QB. In the waning minutes of the 4th quarter he took the team down for a go-ahead score (against the best defense in the league that postseason). It was the defense who failed to stop the Giants on that last drive. So when Tom had as good a supporting cast, he bettered Peyton's historic stats.

    Actually, I think you disprove your own point.  If Brady can win with lesser weapons then it is illogical to accept that he did not win with the best weapons.   Brady actually won and lost not because of the offense around him but because of the quality of the defense.  As has been noted here by most, Brady and Manning are 1a and 1b or 1 & 2 (or whatever you think),  what both have proven is that regardless of how great they may be, their greatness cannot overcome faulty defense.  in this most team oriented of games there is just too much game that takes place without them on the field.  And that suggests that we have to look at more than just postseason wins and losses to consider who is better.  It is entirely possible that manning is the better QB. 


    That is why the writer picked manning, because he succeeded despite his own, and his offensive teammates multiple injuries not to mention significant injuries on the defense which also limited their play.   

    Multiple injuries? As if NE did not have as many if not more? You can't even call the injury situation in 08 a wash! How many games would the Colts have won with Sorgi at QB? Half the Patriots' defense was on IR by December, and Cassel had to put up a lot of points to win down the stretch. This is a non-point if ever I heard one.

    First, the pats may have had significant d injuries, but so did the colts.  The colts also had significant o injuries.  For the pats I can think of 2.  Cassell while having to overcome d injuries had the vast majority of this o intact.  Manning did not.  I think Cassel might have won 5-6 games as the colts QB with what was available. 



    The colts won games last year by the skin of their teeth and much of it was due to manning.
       

    At least three of their games were won by the opposition either giving the ball away repeatedly or by stupid penalties. Manning simply played to the level he is accustomed to.

    As Manning is now a 3 time MVP.  I would agree he played to the level he is accustomed.  As for teams giving away games, you are suggesting the colts had nothing to do with this, as if they were not even on the field.  Forgive me if I don't subscribe.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    You have a point about defenses. The year the Colts won it all it was truly due to their defense doing a 180 in the postseason (i.e. the KC and Baltimore games). But you cannot discount the differential of play in the postseason, however badly the defense did. Brady has had his best games in January (and Feb.), while Manning has played his absolute worst in the playoffs. Regardless of wins and losses, look at the discrepancy of his performances between regular and postseason play. It should be obvious, even to a Colts fan. And as for giving away games, there's no possible way the defense could be credited with what Rosenfels did in that Houston game! Even the Chiefs would have won that one!!!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    How come pats fans can't comprehend that in fact Manning could be better than Brady?  I am not saying he is.  I think it is more of a 1A or 1B thing.  But I honestly don't understand the immediate dismissal of Manning being better than Brady based on anything other than fandom.     You evidently have chosen to ignore or forget the reasons we here have stated. In my own post I called them the two best by a sizeable margin. I'll now repeat why (IMO, and a lot of others) Brady should be considered "1A" and Manning "1B". Three SB rings to one (and NE beat Indy twice head to head in the playoffs to earn those rings), and moreso their postseason records...14-3 compared to 8-8. I cannot state it any more clearly than that. I know you are not stupid like the pure trolls who ramble on about BS (like Leon and all his alter-egos). Your failure to accept this (or even try and dispute it) proves you are a bigger "homer" than I am. Nothing wrong with being loyal to your team, but these are reasons above and beyond "fandom" which IMO is a legitimate basis to disagree with anyone putting Manning ahead of Brady. My comments do not apply to everyone, but certainly the majority here quickly dismiss Manning.  I think it is reasonable for you to rely on postseason record as your reasoning for why you think Brady is better.   Bub - I have to turn this around on you a bit.  I have read here how Manning got his numbers by being surrounded by the best offensive players in the league while brady toiled and succeeded with much less.  If that arguement was true (which is a different arguement) it certainly wasn't true in 2007 when the pats went 18-0 but couldn't get the job done.  That team exceeded many of the previously set offensive records both as a team and individually. How is that "turning this around"? It only goes to validate that very point. Brady won three championships with "average" weapons. The one year he had an offense comparable to what the Colts have had regularly, he took the team to 18 wins! As far as not "getting the job done", I'll use your old line...you can't blame the QB. In the waning minutes of the 4th quarter he took the team down for a go-ahead score (against the best defense in the league that postseason). It was the defense who failed to stop the Giants on that last drive. So when Tom had as good a supporting cast, he bettered Peyton's historic stats. Actually, I think you disprove your own point.  If Brady can win with lesser weapons then it is illogical to accept that he did not win with the best weapons.   Brady actually won and lost not because of the offense around him but because of the quality of the defense.  As has been noted here by most, Brady and Manning are 1a and 1b or 1 & 2 (or whatever you think),  what both have proven is that regardless of how great they may be, their greatness cannot overcome faulty defense.  in this most team oriented of games there is just too much game that takes place without them on the field.  And that suggests that we have to look at more than just postseason wins and losses to consider who is better.  It is entirely possible that manning is the better QB.   That is why the writer picked manning, because he succeeded despite his own, and his offensive teammates multiple injuries not to mention significant injuries on the defense which also limited their play.     Multiple injuries? As if NE did not have as many if not more? You can't even call the injury situation in 08 a wash! How many games would the Colts have won with Sorgi at QB? Half the Patriots' defense was on IR by December, and Cassel had to put up a lot of points to win down the stretch. This is a non-point if ever I heard one. First, the pats may have had significant d injuries, but so did the colts.  The colts also had significant o injuries.  For the pats I can think of 2.  Cassell while having to overcome d injuries had the vast majority of this o intact.  Manning did not.  I think Cassel might have won 5-6 games as the colts QB with what was available.   The colts won games last year by the skin of their teeth and much of it was due to manning.     At least three of their games were won by the opposition either giving the ball away repeatedly or by stupid penalties. Manning simply played to the level he is accustomed to. As Manning is now a 3 time MVP.  I would agree he played to the level he is accustomed.  As for teams giving away games, you are suggesting the colts had nothing to do with this, as if they were not even on the field.  Forgive me if I don't subscribe.
    Posted by underdogg



    No matter what, this is going to be nothing but arguing between fans of both teams about who has a better QB. It is part of what being a fan is. Even a true Raiders fan would attempt to back up Jamarcus Russel as something other than another Al Davis mistake. Personally, I hate Manning and the way he is so eager to blame others for his mistakes, but he is one of the two greatest QB's in the league. However, I think everyone can agree Rothlisberger doesn't even deserve to be in the top 20 for players on that list. Now THAT is a QB who completely depends on his defensive security blanket.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kman2004. Show kman2004's posts

    Re: NO WAY!!!

    Apparently you haven't gone to NFL.com today. This is their survey below on their website today.

    Which quarterback would you most like with the ball for a game-winning drive?


    22%

    Tom Brady
    17%

    John Elway
    32%

    Joe Montana
    5%

    Roger Staubach
    3%

    Johnny Unitas
    22%

    A quarterback not listed here

    Total Votes: 82356


    YOUR BOY PEYTON
    DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE LIST.


    Go to their website and see it for yourself. Bottom line, what defines the Best Quarterbacks are the ones that play their best in the most critical game situations, NOT STATS.

    Brady has won far more critcal Games when the Big playoff or Championship game is on the line, while Peyton has many more memorable moments choking in the big game than winning it. POLLS DON'T LIE!

    Prior to the Patriots 2007 season ignorant fans like you could try to make the argument that Peyton was a better stats quarterback. Not Anymore. Brady Crushed Peyton's single season touchdown record and has more SuperBowl Appearances and Superbowl Championships.
     
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