Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    In response to coolade2's comment:
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    In response to agcsbill's comment:
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    Why is it when a play "works" it is deemed a great call, but, when a play doesn't work, it is the OCs fault for making that call?  Seems to me EVERY play that is called is expected to work if executed properly.  Also, when a play is busted up and the offense turns it into a surprising gain, the "player" made a great play now!  So which is it?  A great call or a great effort by the player?

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    answer ....    when a play catches the defense leaning a certain way and creates a big gain it is a great play call for the situation.

    So, how can you call a play that will do this in advance?  It appears to me this would occur when an audible is made.

    conversely....    when a player gets sacked on a deep drop play action when the pass rushers appear to expect the play then it is a sh1tty call.

    So... a good guess on the part of the D makes it a s**tty call?

    also...  when the offense throws a long incompletion on 1st down and a short completion on third down (3 and out ) early in the game...  What does it say about the play calling ....????

    Back to your first point, make a call that catches the D leaning a certain way.  IE - 3rd and short and go for a long pass when the D expects a run. 

    Overall.. a guessing game on both sides of the ball.  Some plays work and some don't. 

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    Gee, if only BB and McD and TB had the insite of Norv in how to run an offense. Imagine just these last 3 weeks!

    Yup. Meadow schools us in eye liner and Norv schools us in fantasy football.

    More one liners than Letterman and Leno combined.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    Norv Turner's credentials as an OC are pretty solid.  His creds as an HC not so much.  

    No disrespect, coolade, but gimmick plays do not a good offensive game plan make.  Plays that work do - which was pretty obvious in the 2nd half when Brady drilled the Browns.  Nothing wrong with the Pats game plan that some tweeking and execution didn't fix.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    In response to zbellino's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Hey Coolade, add me to the list of the  5 or 6 people who reads your posts then becaus I read most of yours..  I have not watched the whole game yet, I was out of town and got back late last night, so I have yet to see the reverse but yeah, it should be used more then it is, maybe not once or twice a game though.  Josh McD needs to be more creative, imo.  Have the Pats ran the flea flicker yet this year?  Usually that play is good for a few times a season and usually catches the D off guard. But the Pats do need to be more creative.  At this point I would save all the creative stuff for the playoffs.

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    The flea-flicker? Really?

    Did you watch what Cleveland's front seven was doing to the front line?

    That would be one of the worst play calling ideas, imo. 

    They settled in when Vereen came in and the screen game opened up. Reverses and flea-flickers are best reserved for when you have an offensive line blocking scheme in place that is actually functioning. 

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    Um, no.  As I stated in my post I was out of town and have only watched part of the game so far.  I said Josh McD needs to be more creative.  I never said to use the flea flicker in this game, it was more of a general question.  It usually catches teams off gaurd when the Pats use it, have they used it yet this season?  That was my question.

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    Gotcha. 

    I thought you were proposing that they run flea flickers in that game or something. 

    Really, not the place to be experimenting when you can't even compose a blocking scheme

    that gets your RBs out of the backfield and keeps your QB upright. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels


    Yeah, Norv versus Mcdaniels, that's what this game was all about. 

    Good one.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Gee, if only BB and McD and TB had the insite of Norv in how to run an offense. Imagine just these last 3 weeks!

    Yup. Meadow schools us in eye liner and Norv schools us in fantasy football.

    More one liners than Letterman and Leno combined.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, they made great half-time adjustments against Texas. They made a few adjustments late in the game against Cleveland on offense, but not on defense. 

    Sometimes coaches don't put their players in the best position to win, but are rescued instead by 55 yard FGs, brilliant onside kicks, and perfect execution in 2-minute drill work. 

    Sorry, I'll give them the bogey in Denver: they didn't fumble the ball three times, and actually limited the vaunted Denver passing attack for most of the game, even if it meant allowing them to run like crazy, it was a good gamble. 

    But the defense giving up nearly 30 points to Texas and Cleveland isn't all on the players. And the offense not having the right blocking assignments isn't all on the players. 

    The concept of leaving Svitek alone with Kruger is really braindead and almost cost them the game. What did Kruger have? 2 sacks, 3 hits, a bunch of hurries, 2 tackles for a loss and two passes broken up in the backfield. 

    The guy was inside the backfield as soon as Brady and Ridley were in the backfield. I get Svitek is your 3rd option there. But I also get there ARE ways to slide some help his way. And there are ways defenses try to isolate pass rushers into one-on-one situations. 

    That is coaching work. By and large, Norv won that battle. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    No disection necessary! Scoreboard...Norv schooled noone!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    So an offense that cannot put 4 or 5 good plays together in the first half of games for 4 straingt games has nothing to do with the playcalling and ...?

    "Oh well...  some plays work and some don't"  ?

    I'm not saying we run all trick plays...  just that the absence of ANY misdirection / deception  plays indicates a big fat vanilla offense that defenses line up and snuff out.

    IN the first half Jason campbell executed plays better than brady.   It's the playcalling AND the execution,   but,  "this just in"  : ....

    better plays are a lot easier to execute.... 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So an offense that cannot put 4 or 5 good plays together in the first half of games for 4 straingt games has nothing to do with the playcalling and ...?

    "Oh well...  some plays work and some don't"  ?

    I'm not saying we run all trick plays...  just that the absence of ANY misdirection / deception  plays indicates a big fat vanilla offense that defenses line up and snuff out.

    IN the first half Jason campbell executed plays better than brady.It's the playcalling AND the execution but "this just in: ....

    better plays are A LOT EASIER TO EXECUTE.... 

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    Come on man!  You call a play and expect the team to execute.  Even the BEST call can fail for lack of execution.  For example:

    The first quarter pass on which Brady overthrew Gronk.  This appeared to be a good play call as Gronk was wide open, but, Brady overthrew Gronk. Good call, bad execution.

    Third quarter, the 80 yard TD pass from Campbell to Gordon.  Gordon was open and Campbell threw the pass on the money for Gordon to make the play.  Good call, good execution.

    Seems the common thread here is any call can be a good call with good execution.  But, a good call can also be thwarted by a better play on the part of the defense.

    Lastly, I would like to know what a "better" play is that makes it "easier" to execute?  If all plays are executed properly, aren't they all easy for the most part?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So an offense that cannot put 4 or 5 good plays together in the first half of games for 4 straingt games has nothing to do with the playcalling and ...?

    "Oh well...  some plays work and some don't"  ?

    I'm not saying we run all trick plays...  just that the absence of ANY misdirection / deception  plays indicates a big fat vanilla offense that defenses line up and snuff out.

    IN the first half Jason campbell executed plays better than brady.It's the playcalling AND the execution but "this just in: ....

    better plays are A LOT EASIER TO EXECUTE.... 

     [/QUOTE]

    Come on man!  You call a play and expect the team to execute.  Even the BEST call can fail for lack of execution.  For example:

    The first quarter pass on which Brady overthrew Gronk.  This appeared to be a good play call as Gronk was wide open, but, Brady overthrew Gronk. Good call, bad execution.

    Third quarter, the 80 yard TD pass from Campbell to Gordon.  Gordon was open and Campbell threw the pass on the money for Gordon to make the play.  Good call, good execution.

    Seems the common thread here is any call can be a good call with good execution.  But, a good call can also be thwarted by a better play on the part of the defense.

    Lastly, I would like to know what a "better" play is that makes it "easier" to execute?  If all plays are executed properly, aren't they all easy for the most part?

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    YOur argument is technically correct but missing the essential point of playcalling and that it is more of an art  than a science.   Scientifically each play there is an x and an O and the x blocks the O and so forth.   As in execution.

    Except the wild card in every play is trying to outsmart your opponent and anticipate what they are going to do.   Right...?  Agree that no one gets it 100% or even close but a well called game you win those maneuvers more than you lose.  In this case in this game Turner out called McD and should have won the game except for a fortunate on-sides kick, etc.

    So a good play anticipates the defense to do something and plays off of that. thereby gaining an advantage.  the misdirection of a reverse is an example (made perfectly by Turner) where the defense moved in the direction that he anticipated...  leaving open field for Gordon to run into. 

    Somebody posted that the play was made by gordon....lol.   ANY receiver would have gained 30 yards there although he did tack on an extra 10 with some footwork and moves along the sideline.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    coolade...  when all is said and done, anticipating what one may think the opponent may do is a guessing game. All the players on the field react to what they see. Such as a QB making an audible at the line when the D shifts into a formation not good for the original play called.

    You say Turner outcalled McD.  Well, most folks here do not think the D played particularly well, so, those plays that Turner called worked because of the lack of execution on the part of the defense to "defend".  IE - no pressure on Campbell whenever he dropped back to pass.  Then, later in the game, when the Pats came back to win it, the plays called were working.  Did the Pats suddenly come up with plays that only worked at that point?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    coolade...  when all is said and done, anticipating what one may think the opponent may do is a guessing game. All the players on the field react to what they see. Such as a QB making an audible at the line when the D shifts into a formation not good for the original play called.

    You say Turner outcalled McD.  Well, most folks here do not think the D played particularly well, so, those plays that Turner called worked because of the lack of execution on the part of the defense to "defend".  IE - no pressure on Campbell whenever he dropped back to pass.  Then, later in the game, when the Pats came back to win it, the plays called were working.  Did the Pats suddenly come up with plays that only worked at that point?

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    Well I would call it an  intelligent guess.  Or an educated guess.  Which is not really a guess at all.  As for the defense that is a different thread, but agree that the D was not covering that well or pressuring on those critical plays...   which kinda means they were in no-mans land... AKA bending-but-not-breaking.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels


    No matter. Patriots won. But J.McD needs to go. he definetly is not BB's replalcemnt when BB retires.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Norv Turner SCHOOLS Mcdaniels

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its definitely not a good omen if Norv Turner calls a better game than our own OC! I will admit that Norv called a great game. He shocked me by staying aggresive and throwing the ball after we scored to make it 19-11. I would have bet my house that Norv would have gotten conservative and kept running in order to shorten the game even further. Heck its that playcalling that got him fired from his last two HC jobs. I want to give kudos to Norv, but hope its really not an indictment of our pass D and lack of a pas rush! As for Josh Mcdaniels, have not been impressed at all.

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    Norv Turner is a great offensive coordinator by the way. Not a very good head coach but he has always been a top notch OC. Having Norv call a great game is nothing new. He was the OC on one of the best super bowl teams of all time.

     

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