Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 9:22 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    Why dwell on it? Move on. Patriots will be back to the SB this season. Between the FA signings and the upcoming draft the team will be stacked.
    Posted by kansaspatriot


    I have moved on and look forward to next season as I think the draft will fill the holes we still have. That being said, doesn't mean I can't add my opinion.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 9:28 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes : I have moved on and look forward to next season as I think the draft will fill the holes we still have. That being said, doesn't mean I can't add my opinion.
    Posted by AyyyBoston


    Actually I was referring to the OP. Not your post.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 10:17 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes : How 'bout we watch it in regular speed and at a fuller angle (I dub this "real life"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfC0YiLdxHY&feature=related ...Welker had both hands on the ball, and as a Pro wideout, yes- he shoulda came down with it.  Brady is a HOF QB, and until the very moment of this thread, I actually believed it was a deeper pass play than what it actually was...  There is little excuse for WW not catching that ball...There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO excuse for a HOF QB throwing a SB-victory-securing 10-12 yard pass, late...and over the opposite shoulder of the receiver he's thrown accurately to, a 1000X...for a HOF Pro QB playing in the SB, that throw is pathetic...it's disturbingly poor.  Jesus, a 10-12 yard pass, twisting your wideout full back and around in the opposite direction and still having him f'!ng LEAP and totally outstretch, for the guy to be able to come down with it.  Good god.  
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium



    Looking at it, do you think if Welker doesn't try to turn and instead takes another stride down the field the natural path of the ball will make it land right in Welkers hands and he catches it in stride?
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 10:19 AM EDT

    I agree with the not dwelling on it angle. Bad pass, dropped ball, whatever it was it is over now. I guess I get mad when people pin the blame on brady, but I can see how the it can be viewed as more of a miscommunication (Welker saw the seam and took it, whereas Brady wanted WW to find room in the open area). It's not the first time a missed connection will happen with Brady and Welker and it won't be the last. Both are great players that just didn't make the play when they needed it the most. Hopefully they make the play next year.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 10:53 AM EDT

    I get sick to my stomach everytime I see the Welker drop.  In slow motion it looks like such an easy catch but in real time that is a very hard catch to make.  That one hurts, I can't even continue to comment on it......
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 12:29 PM EDT

    Our 1st offensive play call of the game deserves more blame then the WW drop or the Brady throw. You don't run 20 yard routes down field inside of your own 4 yard line. It was a scripted play call, and it should have been adjusted given our "situation". If the Giants don't have those free 2 points and an extra possession the outcome would have been different imo.
    \
    Anyway I hope Loyd is disciplined in his route running, because this could be a premature celebration if not.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 1:33 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    I agree with the not dwelling on it angle. Bad pass, dropped ball, whatever it was it is over now. I guess I get mad when people pin the blame on brady, but I can see how the it can be viewed as more of a miscommunication (Welker saw the seam and took it, whereas Brady wanted WW to find room in the open area). It's not the first time a missed connection will happen with Brady and Welker and it won't be the last. Both are great players that just didn't make the play when they needed it the most. Hopefully they make the play next year.
    Posted by Rockdog1293000


    In the end it came down to not executing the play on both ends.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 4:08 PM EDT

    Agreed. OB later said that was a regret. Awesome! I'm hoping McDaniels brings a little more to the table overall as OC.

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    Our 1st offensive play call of the game deserves more blame then the WW drop or the Brady throw. You don't run 20 yard routes down field inside of your own 4 yard line. It was a scripted play call, and it should have been adjusted given our "situation". If the Giants don't have those free 2 points and an extra possession the outcome would have been different imo. \ Anyway I hope Loyd is disciplined in his route running, because this could be a premature celebration if not.
    Posted by TrueChamp

     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 4:48 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    bad pass?  3 defenders around the ball threw it where it was safe and catchable
    Posted by getdrunkstupit


    the 3 defenders weren't that close.  The throwing angle  that peeps keep referring to did not differ regardless of which side he threw, brady threw it to the left vs. right (which was the side welker happened to be looking over). it would have been more "catchable" over the right in this instance because that was the side welker was looking over.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 5:33 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    Jeez Laz how do you really feel? 10-12 yard pass? Wrong. Just wrong. Were you watching the same game? Please tell me again that was a 12 yard pass. Also keep in mind Brady was at least 5 yards behind the LOS. But don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.  A taller receiver who doesn't mis-time their jump (do you dispute welker jumped too early) makes that catch easily. A 5'8" receiver streaking down the field means an extremely small window for brady.  I'll take your word over Bradys...NOT. You're not looking at it at the same angle brady is. He is in the middle of the field. You are looking at a 10 to 15 yard strip at the left hash marks. WW S Brady Should Brady throw it right through the Safety?  Please correct the deluge of wrongness once again, only this time try to use facts instead of just saying everyone else is wrong in an arrogant manner.  In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000


    O.k., Now that I've counted, which is more "correct", The: "It was a 10-15 yard pass", OR "It was a 35 yard pass?"  Here, I'll help you:  The ball was hiked at the 44 yard line.  Wes Welker made his leap EXACTLY at the 25 yard line...now let's count (unless ya wanna further dock Welker for that 5 extra mid-air yards, he had to make by that P#ss-poor pass by our HOF QB in the Superbowl, considering that by the time he landed on the turf, after turning and leaping backwards, Welker finally landed at the 20).

    "3 Defenders around him...", "Had to place it in that spot."  No...Not 1 single defender was or even Would Have Been in place to make a play on an accurately thrown ball by Brady...  3 guys...Even during Welker turning, losing his speed and momentum and then in air going up for the catch, BOTH of the flanking outside 2 Defenders were just about precisely the same distance away from Wes...that distance being 5 yards, no less (wait, how 'bout maybe 4 and 1/2 yards for one of 'em...? Does this help your needed tragectory of the pass argument...?  Nope, it doesn't).  Said 3rd Defender (the one in the middle), was roughly 4 yards away (Will maybe, possibly, but not really- 3 and 1/2 yards away help...?  3 and 1/2 yards away upon Welker slowing down spinnning around, and while in flight leaping towards his outside shoulder...Possibly 3 and 1/2 upon and while DOING THAT...?!? Does this make your argument valid...  Nope, not for 1 second).  

    Should Wes have come down with it...  Yea...he IS a pro receiver whom had both hands on the ball.  Was it an absolutely TERRIBLE, p#ss-p00r 19 yard pass (I'm not sure they do averages based on being behind the LOS) pass by a HOF QB playing in the Superbowl, and throwing it to his favorite receiver who's lead the NFL in receptions for 4 years or something...?  Yea, it was.  Does it mean that I'm one of those whom believe that Wes Welker should be paid #1 wideout money...?  No, I'm not- totally against it.

    And now, "You'll take MY word over Brady's (word)."  I'm glad you're speaking on behalf of Brady's inner feelings and takes on what actually occured.  Fits in quite well, with the rest of the "truths" you're forwarding so far on this thread.

    STOP MAKING SPECIFIC IMPARTIALITIES YOU HAVE SOMEWHERE, OR TOWARDS SOMETHING, OR TOWARDS SOMEONE, TOTALLY BLIND HAVING A CLEARER PICTURE ON REALITY  
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 6:23 PM EDT

    The condescending tone isn't cool. You act like you can't be wrong. *cough cough* Shawn Crable

    Ok, the ball was hiked at the 44 yard line. Where did brady throw the ball? Was he at the line of scrimmage? Did he throw the ball across the field? All those variables make it MUCH longer than 19 yard throw. It probably was closer to a 30 yard throw in the air. AND THERE WERE 3 DEFENDERS AROUND WELKER. And how big is Welkers catching radius? Pretty damn small.

    Let's further discuss the length of the throw. LOS was at the 44 you claim. Let's say it hits WW's hands at the 24 and brady threw the ball at the 49. That's 25 yards. Are you familiar with a 3-4-5 triangle. I'll be generous and say the "4" side of the triangle is the down the field length of the throw. So the "4" side = 25 (49-24) yards aka the 4 side is the long leg. So in the air the ball traveled (5/4)* 25 yards. That's 31.25 yards Laz. 31.25>>> 10 to 15. THAT'S A PRETTY LONG THROW TO A SHRIMP WR WITH 3 GIANTS AROUND HIM, DON'T YOU THINK? 

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes : O.k., Now that I've counted, which is more "correct", The: "It was a 10-15 yard pass", OR "It was a 35 yard pass?"  Here, I'll help you:  The ball was hiked at the 44 yard line.  Wes Welker made his leap EXACTLY at the 25 yard line...now let's count (unless ya wanna further dock Welker for that 5 extra mid-air yards, he had to make by that P#ss-poor pass by our HOF QB in the Superbowl, considering that by the time he landed on the turf, after turning and leaping backwards, Welker finally landed at the 20). "3 Defenders around him...", "Had to place it in that spot."  No...Not 1 single defender was or even Would Have Been in place to make a play on an accurately thrown ball by Brady...  3 guys...Even during Welker turning, losing his speed and momentum and then in air going up for the catch, BOTH of the flanking outside 2 Defenders were just about precisely the same distance away from Wes...that distance being 5 yards, no less (wait, how 'bout maybe 4 and 1/2 yards for one of 'em...? Does this help your needed tragectory of the pass argument...?  Nope, it doesn't).  Said 3rd Defender (the one in the middle), was roughly 4 yards away (Will maybe, possibly, but not really- 3 and 1/2 yards away help...?  3 and 1/2 yards away upon Welker slowing down spinnning around, and while in flight leaping towards his outside shoulder...Possibly 3 and 1/2 upon and while DOING THAT...?!? Does this make your argument valid...  Nope, not for 1 second).   Should Wes have come down with it...  Yea...he IS a pro receiver whom had both hands on the ball.  Was it an absolutely TERRIBLE, p#ss-p00r 19 yard pass (I'm not sure they do averages based on being behind the LOS) pass by a HOF QB playing in the Superbowl, and throwing it to his favorite receiver who's lead the NFL in receptions for 4 years or something...?  Yea, it was.  Does it mean that I'm one of those whom believe that Wes Welker should be paid #1 wideout money...?  No, I'm not- totally against it. And now, "You'll take MY word over Brady's (word)."  I'm glad you're speaking on behalf of Brady's inner feelings and takes on what actually occured.  Fits in quite well, with the rest of the "truths" you're forwarding so far on this thread. STOP MAKING SPECIFIC IMPARTIALITIES YOU HAVE SOMEWHERE, OR TOWARDS SOMETHING, OR TOWARDS SOMEONE, TOTALLY BLIND HAVING A CLEARER PICTURE ON REALITY   
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 6:26 PM EDT



    Laz, here's a 3-4-5 triangle in case you didn't understand the reference. 
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 7:03 PM EDT

    but the 3 defenders still weren't that close...and mathematically, the difference in angle isn't going to change much between throwing over right vs. left shoulder
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 7:29 PM EDT

    Brady threw it where only his receiver could catch it, and where the defender had no chance of either clobbering Welker, or intercepting the ball.

    If Brady throws that ball to Welker in stride, it's either intercepted, or Welker is currently in a coma. Either way, the same people raising hell in this thread right now would be doing exactly the same, just for different reasons. 

    Brady protected his receiver from a big hit, and put the ball only where Welker could make a play on the ball, and not the defender. It hit a pro-bowl receiver smack-dab in the center of both of his hands and he dropped it. That's on the receiver, not the quarterback.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 8:02 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    Brady threw it where only his receiver could catch it, and where the defender had no chance of either clobbering Welker, or intercepting the ball. If Brady throws that ball to Welker in stride, it's either intercepted, or Welker is currently in a coma. Either way, the same people raising hell in this thread right now would be doing exactly the same, just for different reasons.  Brady protected his receiver from a big hit, and put the ball only where Welker could make a play on the ball, and not the defender. It hit a pro-bowl receiver smack-dab in the center of both of his hands and he dropped it. That's on the receiver, not the quarterback.
    Posted by vertigho
    I'm pretty sure brady wasn't thinking about protecting his WR. Really?  I would agree that maybe he threw it in an area where it had the least probability of being intercepted - however - just on the footage on this thread it looked like both sides were equally available.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 8:20 PM EDT

    There is no 'blame' for it. You can't 'blame' Welker or Brady for being imperfect.

    As far as getting over it...oh, I will...at some point...probably.

    I think.

    It's more likely to happen when this is no longer the LAST game they've played.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 8:46 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    There is no 'blame' for it. You can't 'blame' Welker or Brady for being imperfect. As far as getting over it...oh, I will...at some point...probably. I think. It's more likely to happen when this is no longer the LAST game they've played.
    Posted by ma6dragon9

    I agree, folks are looking to blame one or the other - but it was a team loss, including the coaches.

    besides, the 2007 loss hurt so much worse than this one.  I didn't expect the patriots to get to the sb this year.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from will71. Show will71's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 9:59 PM EDT

    ok enough of this bs giants also had 3 fumbles that bounced right back to them thats they way it goes I mean really I hope a guy like wes career is not measured by one play we will be right back in the fold next year unlike the giants 
     

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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 10:42 PM EDT

    Watch again. If Brady leads Welker #21 on the giants eats his lunch. Brady throws it to the spot with the most open area. I'm thinking Welker saw daylight and went for it all. He still should've caught the ball but if Brady and welker were on the same page it's an easy completion. 

    These things happen, but I think it was a damn good throw considering all the variables. I could be wrong but % wise the back shoulder throw was the only option given that Welker is not Randy Moss in his prime relative to being a vertical receiver. Maybe Lloyd keeps streaking and brady hits him in stride, but WW is not a straight line, vertical burner. He's a great slot receiver, and an incredible valuable piece to the team. 


    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes : I'm pretty sure brady wasn't thinking about protecting his WR. Really?  I would agree that maybe he threw it in an area where it had the least probability of being intercepted - however - just on the footage on this thread it looked like both sides were equally available.
    Posted by anonymis

     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/7/2012 11:21 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    Laz, here's a 3-4-5 triangle in case you didn't understand the reference. 
    Posted by Rockdog1293000


    It's pretty.  I mean, I like it.  Thank you.  

    Here, this is a pic of 4 tugboats:




    (you only threw down 3 triangles, so now I'm in the lead once more)
    Now you go- fyi, I have an affinity for puppies personally...
     

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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/8/2012 12:49 AM EDT

    And I must say that is a very cute kitten. We are very much in agreement on puppies. 

    Take this...



    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes : It's pretty.  I mean, I like it.  Thank you.   Here, this is a pic of 4 tugboats: (you only threw down 3 triangles, so now I'm in the lead once more) Now you go- fyi, I have an affinity for puppies personally...
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/8/2012 2:54 AM EDT

    I would have caught it. I'm not very good at football. Thats not hyperbole.
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes

    posted at 4/8/2012 6:55 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Now that Lloyd is here....eerily similar plays, drastically different outcomes:
    I would have caught it. I'm not very good at football. Thats not hyperbole.
    Posted by shenanigan


    don't you mean that you could have both passed  AND caught the ball on the same play Cool