Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME2. Show NEGAME2's posts

    Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    After six years with the Patriots, he knows everything anyone could possibly know about the offense. and his special connection to Brady gives the Denver defense a big advantage against the Patriots. He'll probably spend more time in defense meetings than offense. So will the Patiots have to change things up against Denver. I say yes.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    Until Gronk and Hern are on the field at the same time, i do t think we have really seen what McD wants this offense to look like.

    i have to think Ballard at 275lbs offers the opportunity to run the ball more often.

    I also think Vereen shows his speed more often this year. Hoping Demps gets 5 touches per game

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to NEGAME2's comment:

    After six years with the Patriots, he knows everything anyone could possibly know about the offense. and his special connection to Brady gives the Denver defense a big advantage against the Patriots. He'll probably spend more time in defense meetings than offense. So will the Patiots have to change things up against Denver. I say yes.




    You make a good point NEGAME, about McDaniels playcalling and the fact that how he needs to step UP his play calling as well, (not just denver), esp without Welker.  I felt that Welker bailed this offense out the past couple seasons with all the injuries to other key offense players.  Now Welker is gone, McDaniels better step up.   He doesn't have the Welker fall back.,,,will be interesting moving forward now.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    Based on what the Pats have done (and not done) I don't see the offense remaining the same regardless.  Unless Lloyd is re-sgined, Slater's the only wideout remaining on the roster from last year and, not to state the obvious, he's primarily a special teams player.  I don't think this happened simply by chance.  I will be quite interested to see how this translates as the season unfolds.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    They probably will need to.  The WR core is a mess at the moment and the key for the season is going to be Gronk, Hernandez and Ballard staying healthy as I think they are going to have to rely on the TE's heavily in the offense.

    Going into the off season all they really needed to do was add a receiver to stretch the field, hoping the TE's can stay healthy this year and develop the running game a bit more.  Imo they should have kept Lloyd, which he may still come back, he had good numbers last season and it was a good season for him to build on.  Should have kept Welker, continue to develop Edelman who has experience in the offense instead of bringing in Amendola.  Instead they bring in new unproven players, especially unproven in the Pats offense and will take time getting this offense down.  

    It is going to be interesting to see what they do to the offense this season. 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    We're going to run more.  We started doing that last year.  This year we will have an outside threat at wr.  We will D up and make the D more of the gameplan.  We already started the migration so Welker leaving won't have a huge effect.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to NEGAME2's comment:

    After six years with the Patriots, he knows everything anyone could possibly know about the offense. and his special connection to Brady gives the Denver defense a big advantage against the Patriots. He'll probably spend more time in defense meetings than offense. So will the Patiots have to change things up against Denver. I say yes.




    when he finds out amendola is no welker he will have to

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    This year we will have an outside threat at wr.   



    Who?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    Let the week play out.  Do you think we're going with what we have right now?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    Let the week play out.  Do you think we're going with what we have right now?




    Do you have any predictions? Still have a few holes to fill and the only other receiver being talked about is Sanders.  Sanders and Jones aren't the answer.  Need a really good trade at this point and that;s what I am holding out hope for.  Only problem is cap space.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    Do you really see BB making a trade for an established impact wideout?  I think perhaps there's another wideout coming this way but I don't think it's at the level you're hoping for, TFB.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Do you really see BB making a trade for an established impact wideout?  I think perhaps there's another wideout coming this way but I don't think it's at the level you're hoping for, TFB.




    So you are saying I can scratch Megatron of my wish list?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    I think it will be Sanders from pitt and a late draft pick.  I can't see Cruz happening, too much money. If we can run effectively we don't need a moss, the play action takes care of that.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    these wont be the only receivers the pats go into training camp with....they may not make a huge splash in free agency or with a trade, but i definitely see BB going out and getting another receiver. maybe sanders or earl bennett if he is released. he may just end up re-signing lloyd as well..

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Do you really see BB making a trade for an established impact wideout?  I think perhaps there's another wideout coming this way but I don't think it's at the level you're hoping for, TFB.

    So you are saying I can scratch Megatron of my wish list?



    Brace yourself - wait for it - neither Jerry Rice nor Calvin Johnson are walking through that door any time soon.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    Yeah, I think you can rule out trade.  It's rare in the NFL.  

    The FA period isn't over yet and some patients is needed.  As far as Josh goes you must be talking about post season play because during the season the Pats were on top.  With a new corp of WRs it's going to be a wait and see.  To say Sanders and Jones aren't the answer, what is within reason?  But I too have questions as to why the offense falls apart when Gronk gets hurt. 

    I would like to see Vereen more this season and that will probably happen. 

    These changes are painful mainly because of Welker's release.  It's an unknown and unexplored territory as we go into the season.  I look at the picture being close to being complete and we have the draft yet.  Hopefully we can score on those two top picks.   The Pats lose the 3rd if they get Sanders.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    Almost like when Milloy and Bledsoe carved us up a week after we released Lawyer. 31-0 and Bledsoe audibled at the LOS more then I ever remember. He knew exactly what our defense was going to do.

    Then again we beat them 31-0 the last game of the year with Larry F-ing Izzo saving a scrub td on the last play of the game!

    And we won a SB that year!

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Do you really see BB making a trade for an established impact wideout?  I think perhaps there's another wideout coming this way but I don't think it's at the level you're hoping for, TFB.

    So you are saying I can scratch Megatron of my wish list?

     



    Brace yourself - wait for it - neither Jerry Rice nor Calvin Johnson are walking through that door any time soon.

     




    Dang it! While Rice is still in great condidtion I believe he might be past his prime.  But still, he could be the best option as of what's on the WR list as of now.  I was hoping more on Calvin Johnson.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to garytx's comment:

     

     But I too have questions as to why the offense falls apart when Gronk gets hurt. 

     

     




     

    Here is you answer to that: Tom Brady

    He has not surveyed the field or the run offense as well as he used to when Weis was here. He's developed some bad habits by being spoiled with these elite, mid range/mid field pass receiving options.

    What was the worst example of this post 2005?  Note how when ONE key guy in the offense isn't healthy or there, Brady isn't very good.

    2005 playoffs: No Dillon, Brady shotgun spread in Denver, pick 6 and weak offense

    2009 playoffs:  No Welker, Brady threw 4 INTs and had one fumble.  Not his faul as WR and TE spots were not up to snuff.

    2011 SB:  Nothing more needs to be said on this one

    2012 AFC Title game: No Gronk, Brady crappy again with an INT and stalled drives.

    As it pertains to Welker, I still feel the binky factor played into them not resigning him.  I think they realize the extension of the run game is more detrimental in close games than benificial.

    The lack of ball control, clock stoppages when it could be running, stalled drives, loss of momentum and field position, etc. Feast or famine offense when you rely really on 1-2 targets almost exclusively, because they happen to be elite targets. Catch 22.

    BB plucked Jake Ballard, another TE, to IR him last year, which pretty much sealed the fate of Welker.  Moss was phased out in early 2010, Welker in 2012.

    Brady has got to get back to looking left and right, and using both sides of the field again, though. That's been the major problem and part of me wants to say the reason why he prefers to not look left much is because he's right handed and he's fearful of getting hurt again.  It would also tie into the idea that he "prefers" the shotgun tied to this fear of getting hurt thing. Also, the lack of running/sliding is another factor that ties into it.

     

     




    I can't argue with much of what you said. I would say that I am happy that Brady is mindful of getting hurt as he is the most important factor in our 12 year span of dominance. As BB said himself when asked the 1 most important factor in winning 3 SB's....his answer was "Tom Brady"

    But your points are well stated, sometimes I think you go too far with some Brady hate, but I think most Pats fans would agree with your assesment of Brady's play in big games lately. I as you know also attribute this to a lack of offensive coaching which I hoped McDaniels would fix but was extremely disappointed in the results of the Ravens beatdown.

    I do hope our offense becomes less predictable and more difficult to shutdown in big games with the loss of Welker, but I think it is difficult to ask Tom Brady to bring along 3 new receivers....again.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sw4288. Show sw4288's posts

    Re: Now that Welker's in Denver, will McDaniels have to make big changes in play calling.

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to garytx's comment:

     

     But I too have questions as to why the offense falls apart when Gronk gets hurt. 

     

     




     

    Here is you answer to that: Tom Brady

    He has not surveyed the field or the run offense as well as he used to when Weis was here. He's developed some bad habits by being spoiled with these elite, mid range/mid field pass receiving options.

    What was the worst example of this post 2005?  Note how when ONE key guy in the offense isn't healthy or there, Brady isn't very good.

    2005 playoffs: No Dillon, Brady shotgun spread in Denver, pick 6 and weak offense

    2009 playoffs:  No Welker, Brady threw 4 INTs and had one fumble.  Not his faul as WR and TE spots were not up to snuff.

    2011 SB:  Nothing more needs to be said on this one

    2012 AFC Title game: No Gronk, Brady crappy again with an INT and stalled drives.

    As it pertains to Welker, I still feel the binky factor played into them not resigning him.  I think they realize the extension of the run game is more detrimental in close games than benificial.

    The lack of ball control, clock stoppages when it could be running, stalled drives, loss of momentum and field position, etc. Feast or famine offense when you rely really on 1-2 targets almost exclusively, because they happen to be elite targets. Catch 22.

    BB plucked Jake Ballard, another TE, to IR him last year, which pretty much sealed the fate of Welker.  Moss was phased out in early 2010, Welker in 2012.

    Brady has got to get back to looking left and right, and using both sides of the field again, though. That's been the major problem and part of me wants to say the reason why he prefers to not look left much is because he's right handed and he's fearful of getting hurt again.  It would also tie into the idea that he "prefers" the shotgun tied to this fear of getting hurt thing. Also, the lack of running/sliding is another factor that ties into it.

     

     

     




     

    I can't argue with much of what you said. I would say that I am happy that Brady is mindful of getting hurt as he is the most important factor in our 12 year span of dominance. As BB said himself when asked the 1 most important factor in winning 3 SB's....his answer was "Tom Brady"

    But your points are well stated, sometimes I think you go too far with some Brady hate, but I think most Pats fans would agree with your assesment of Brady's play in big games lately. I as you know also attribute this to a lack of offensive coaching which I hoped McDaniels would fix but was extremely disappointed in the results of the Ravens beatdown.

    I do hope our offense becomes less predictable and more difficult to shutdown in big games with the loss of Welker, but I think it is difficult to ask Tom Brady to bring along 3 new receivers....again.

     




    It's not hate.   It isn't. I am watching what you're watching. I just would have cringed if they signed Welker to 7-8 million for 2 more years, and with what BB has cooking on D, Brady and Welker spend 2 more postseasons doing more of the same. I have been speechless since 2010s postseason in particular with how the media and most fans have just glossed over his poor play in the postseason.  Meanwhile, the D has been absolutely strung up, many times unfairly, because it's been the thing that people read most due to the obvious built in anti-BB bias.

     

    So, it's important to understand what is going on here. Some of our own fans right now don't get that Amendola doesn't symbolize a new Welker, but Welker in the slot to some degree (maybe not as electric), BUT the idea that Brady now has a strong side flanker to also look at if he chooses.

    Can you imagine how painful that would have been? To possibly see more of that failed Welker-centric offense in two more postseasons with Brady at age 36 and 37??

    Oh my.

    This board would explode. And, the ones who like to scapegoat random players on D, will look even worse if that were to happen.

    I am happy BB dealt Moss. I am happy BB walked away from Welker.  It means he sees it, gets it and is trying to fix it.  It's somewhat painful to admit this should have been finally addressed in 2010. I thought it was. I really did.  As you can see, Ocho didn't work supposedly, Lloyd produced, but they just cut him.  So, clearly, Brady and BB aren't happy with that left flank and they need an upgrade to Branch.

    So, it's not all  Brady, but I do feel the binky factor now being eliminated will be a huge lift for Brady in a very subliminal way. I don't even think he realizes sometimes how bad his QB play is in terms of decision making.  It's been such a huge problem in these postseason losses. 

    It's ok to take a sack, run to the right or left or throw it away instead of forcing the ball to that binky.

    Look at this last AFC title game.   14-13 in the 4th, 21-13...They're still right there in the game, but the offense just disappeared outright even AFTER the 2 turnovers. It's like they quit. I know they didn't, but it had to change.

    This offense would be unstoppable with one more quality flanker and Brady under center more. The shotgun thing used to be about a strategic move. I watched the highlights of the 2006 AFC title game.

    Once Indy adjusted to NE running out of the shotgun spread, our offense basically did nothing the entire second half. Without Ellis Hobbs's 80 yard kick off return, Brady doesn't have the TD to Gaffney for the only TD of the second half.

    This goes way back.  Way back. And it all ties to overuse of the shotgun, not spreading the ball around to more targets in the first half and a lack of balance overall.

     

     




    I re-watched super bowl 39 when it was on NFL network and watched what type of sets Brady threw out of. A lot of 2 back sets, 2 tight one back sets and even a 3 wide one tight set with no back and brady under center. Here is a youtube video of a TD drive in that game. Brady passes more than they run the ball, but look at the sets he is passing out of. He is only in the gun on third and longs. I agree this offense HAS to be more diverse and you're right, it's being noticed by the coaches. I hope it is anyway. Here's the drive.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEumzvnU9gY

     
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