O`Brian: Killing the Offense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rick8795. Show Rick8795's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    To me a major factor is the new, personnel (Gronk, Hernandez) need time to develop better timing with Brady. Actually Moss looked out of sync as well. When Brady isn't confident in someone he throws to Moss or Welker. The passing offense will/should look much better in a few weeks.

    As for the running game, what can be said that already hasn't been said.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense :  The problem was people to whom Brady was throwing the ball either weren't catching it or were not gaining yards with it, and some of Brady's throws were bad throws or bad reads.  People keep saying O'Brien is not adjusting in halftime, but the adjust from series to series; what I'm seeing is players not executing.
    Posted by STP43FAN


    Cut and paste from another thread but relevant;

    It's funny that since Charlie Weis's departure we went from being the best team at making halftime adjustments, to simply being the worst 2nd half team in football... yet somehow coaching and play calling play are supposed to play no role in that?  Clueless...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : Cut and paste from another thread but relevant; It's funny that since Charlie Weis's departure we went from being the best team at making halftime adjustments, to simply being the worst 2nd half team in football... yet somehow coaching and play calling play are supposed to play no role in that?  Clueless...
    Posted by wozzy


    Really, since 2005 we've been the worst second half team in football? 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    hate to say it but I think the guy killing the offense is the guy pulling the trigger. Can't tell me the offensive game plan was to force feed the ball to Moss, under throw a wide open Gronk, over throw guys running crossing patterns, lock on one guy the majority of the time, under throw or over throw all your deep balls and wip it at guys at the last second that are 4 yards away from you. 

    Don't recall seeing him play like this a few years ago. In his defense, he could never complete a pass again and still go down as the best thing to happen to Boston sports in a long, long, time. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : Really, since 2005 we've been the worst second half team in football? 
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Yes the deterioration of coaching and fundamentals started in 2005, continued as Bill lost all of his pupils to other teams, until today where we are clearly a horrible 2nd half team. 

    Instead of taking my comments out of context in an attempt to make me look wrong why don't you address what I'm saying; how does the team widely regarded as the best at making halftime adjustments go on to become the worst second half team in the league? 

    But you must be correct, coaching and experience have no bearing on that at all...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dentris. Show dentris's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : Where is it not happening?  Belichick has plenty of assistant coaches on the sideline to do just that. We're suffering ONLY because of EXECUTION.  The Patriots are making adjustments from series to series - where do people keep getting the idea that they're not making adjustments or the playcalling is failing? Crennel is a buffoon and Charlie Weis is a stupid fat slob - they can't coach and it's showing up especially with Weis and an offense that's incompetent.
    Posted by STP43FAN


    KC is 3-0. 

    Any more salient points, Russ?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from donk3. Show donk3's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing our Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing our Offense:
    Predictable and pathetic play calling in the second half yesterday.  Reminded me a lot of last year. Run for little or nothing on 1st down setting up 2nd and long.  Short completion or Incompletion on 2nd setting up 3rd and long.  Underthrow or overthrow bomb to Moss on 3rd = turn over or punt. Sample size big enough to prove this guy, like 99.99% of the population, in not capable of be a professional football coordinator.  Unfortunately he's not going anywhere
    Posted by Tcal2


    It was more like.....Run for nothing on 1st down.  Overthrow a bomb to Moss, setting up 3rd and long, then short completion or no completion and punt.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Well first of all wozzy we didn't struggle in the second half until 2009.  Our offense was pretty good in 2005 through 2008 so I don't know what your complaint is. And when we were up against good defenses back in the Weiss days it's not like we moved the chains and scored TDs on every drive in the second half of every game.  The results were quite the opposite.  Last year we were up against the best collective pass defense the league has seen since 1993 and had a weak running game so I think that might have something to do with it.  And the Jets are one of the best defenses in the league so it makes sense we would struggle against them. 

    Is O'Brien as good as Weiss?  Probably not. Is he significantly worse?  Definitely not.  In any event, Weiss is gone, what are we supposed to do, cry about it?  O'Brien is good enough for BB, and that should be good enough for us fans.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Yep, I point the finger at Brady as well.  The ball needs to be spread out more especially with the targets he has now.  Moss may be let go just because of this.  Dump Brady's heroin to get him back on track. 

    The loss to the Jets falls on Brady's shoulders too.  We all knew the defense was suspect going into the season and the offense was going to have to carry the defense.  In the Jets game it didn't even carry it's own weight let alone some of the defenses.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    The one area we definitely are worse in the second half is comng from behind to win.  Even in the playoffs against tough defenses, Weiss's offense would be able to come back for the win.  O'Brien's offense has not demonstrated any ability to do that. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Actually OB gave us a balanced offense the last game. Really it's a little early to write the guy's epitaph. Weis and Romeo left......happens routinely when you succeed (Gailey, Sparano, Norv, Holmgren etc....).
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    Because Seymour and Vrabel were done and Maroney just plain s*cks.
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Exactly, so why keep O'brien?  He's no better?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    Yep, I point the finger at Brady as well.  The ball needs to be spread out more especially with the targets he has now.  Moss may be let go just because of this.  Dump Brady's heroin to get him back on track.  The loss to the Jets falls on Brady's shoulders too.  We all knew the defense was suspect going into the season and the offense was going to have to carry the defense.  In the Jets game it didn't even carry it's own weight let alone some of the defenses.
    Posted by garytx


    Gary, I have read a lot of your posts and like what you have to say. That is not me trying to get on your good side before I disagree with you. How did you think Brady fplayed in the 1st half of the Jets game? I challenge you to re-watch the 2nd half and really see why Brady threw to Moss "so much" I put that in quotes because  it was actually only FOUR times! Not much for the 2nd all time wr in the NFL if you ask me, especially if the "best CB in the league" injured himself while giving up a td in the 1st half.

    http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/09/20/bradys-reliance-on-moss-costs-patriots

    Funny the title of that article was how Moss cost the Pats because he had 10 targets when in fact 6 of them came in the 1st half( when we drove pretty well against the Jets) Anyway I have beat this to death on a thread titled "I blame Brady" by MVP Killer. The Jets changed their D game plan and the Pats coaching staff did not adjust. They rushed only 4 or 5 at the most in the 2nd half and took away the underneath stuff. People blame Brady but in actuality we have young wet behind the ears offensive skill position players and more then likely they were out of position and blanketed rather then Brady focusing too much on Moss! In my opinion of course.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Champ, thanks for the props!

    Everyone seems in a hurry to throw O'Brien under the bus when Brady is a big factor in the decision making process out on the field.  Perhaps Moss is a bad example but geez it seems like the ball gets forced to him a lot.  I don't see the same ol' plays like last year.  I see lack of execution this year.  I see Brady getting fooled at times at the line when he changes plays at the line.  I'm just not seeing the old Brady out there.

    Now last year the offense was vanilla but that was because the Pats only had three options.  Moss, Welker and Maroney.  No TE or 3rd WR.  Folks were seeing it right IMHO but didn't see why or didn't understand why. 

    I respect your opinion on this.  I just can't see O'Brien screwing up so badly without some help.  From time to time you can question the order of play calls like a Moss deep on 3rd down when maybe the play should have been run on 1st or 2nd down.  Just try for a first down on your third try.  Then maybe we wouldn't see so many three and outs.  It would be nice to have some sort of running game to take on those 3rd and fours or fives.  But I have no faith in that which makes 3rd downs for us kinda predictable.  Got on a rant, sorry.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

         Hey guys...let me clue you in...the offense is not the problem. But, the defense...that quite another matter.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    Champ, thanks for the props! Everyone seems in a hurry to throw O'Brien under the bus when Brady is a big factor in the decision making process out on the field.  Perhaps Moss is a bad example but geez it seems like the ball gets forced to him a lot.  I don't see the same ol' plays like last year.  I see lack of execution this year.  I see Brady getting fooled at times at the line when he changes plays at the line.  I'm just not seeing the old Brady out there. Now last year the offense was vanilla but that was because the Pats only had three options.  Moss, Welker and Maroney.  No TE or 3rd WR.  Folks were seeing it right IMHO but didn't see why or didn't understand why.  I respect your opinion on this.  I just can't see O'Brien screwing up so badly without some help.  From time to time you can question the order of play calls like a Moss deep on 3rd down when maybe the play should have been run on 1st or 2nd down.  Just try for a first down on your third try.  Then maybe we wouldn't see so many three and outs.  It would be nice to have some sort of running game to take on those 3rd and fours or fives.  But I have no faith in that which makes 3rd downs for us kinda predictable.  Got on a rant, sorry.
    Posted by garytx



    I pretty much agree with everything. I think so far our play calling has been less predictable(aside from the 2nd half where I think we fell into the same old trap) and it is because we have more options as you said. I do think it is a combination of execution and lack of a run commitment which can leave us looking a little stagnant sometimes. I think Brady was fooled by what the Jets did in the 2nd half but so was Obrien and our coaching staff. When an offense is taken out of a game like that then everybody is to blame, but I really think that is where coaches make their money. I think Brady looks almost as good as ever. His deep ball is a little off which I think is still some after results of that horrific injury but it should get better as the season goes. He looks like he is seeing the field in typical Brady fashion. I think the running game is what it is going to ultimately hurt us when the weather turns. All the more reason I constantly protest the Maroney give away trade.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
         Hey guys...let me clue you in...the offense is not the problem. But, the defense...that quite another matter.
    Posted by TexasPat3



    Tex, we know you HATE the defense, but that's what happens when you lose your probowl veteran defensive core almost all at the same time. They are young and should improve under BB's coaching. I know you don't think we have a shot at getting to the Sb(especially given your low opinion of Brady and how he would never have hurt his knee if he wasn't so distracted by his off field blah blah blah) but I think with Brady 2 years removed from injury with some of the best weapons he's had on offense the D can be carried enough until they improve.

    P.S I still love ya bud, I just can't stand your opinions on Brady.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    To  nobody in particular...

    The Chiefs are 3-0 and Charlie is working with scraps...

    O'Brien can't score in the 2nd half of the Jets game with the same offensive components from 2007, but better tight ends and depth at receiver.

    Not saying he can't improve, just saying coordinators don't count against the salary cap so there's no need to be cheap.

    When it comes to wins and losses Charlie is substantially better than O'Brien or anybody that came after...

    The defense is young and inexperienced, we knew that before the season began didn't we...

    We're good for the first quarter because the plays are scripted, but to their credit they looked better against the Bills, we may as well go no huddle from the 2nd quarter on and run A LOT...  we won against Buffalo because we ran.




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Yes ... we were able to run against Buffalo.  Running does no good when the other team can stop you for minimal gain every time. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Yes, O'brien is predictable. Everyone knows what he is going to do depending on down, distance, field position and time remaining. Also, the Pats need to a much stronger running game so that opposing teams are scared of it. Without a running game to keep people honest opposing defenses are finding ways to cover.

    Being able to run it down the defenses throats is a must to being a power again.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Nice article on ESPNBoston that lends credibility to an argument Killa made earlier about pinning the blame on Brady in the Jets game.  Interesting read:

    Jeremy Lundblad of ESPN Stats and Information dug up some troubling numbers on the Patriots' woes on the road, where they are 2-7 since the start of last season (which counts a win in London). 

    Here is a sampling: 

    * Blame it on Brady?: In his past eight true road games, Tom Brady has a 50.8 passer rating in the second half compared to a 101.6 passer rating in the first half. The numbers get downright ugly in the fourth quarter, when Brady has a 29.3 passer rating courtesy of one touchdown and five interceptions. Quite simply, that makes Brady the worst quarterback in the NFL on the road in the fourth quarter since 2009. Not rookies Mark Sanchez (29.7) or Matthew Stafford (33.4). Not even quarterbacks who lost their jobs, such as Derek Anderson (33.4) and Kerry Collins (42.2). No one has been worse than Brady. 

    * The defense has been just plain bad on the road. In three of those seven true road losses, the Patriots allowed 21 points in a single quarter. Overall, they are allowing 25.4 points per game on the road since 2009, the seventh-worst average in the NFL. By contrast, the Brady-led offense is putting up a middle-of-the-pack 19.5 points. 

    Here again, the contrast with home performance is stark, particularly with regard to the much-maligned pass defense. While holding opponents to 10 fewer points on average, the Patriots have twice as many interceptions at home. 

    In fact, when in Foxborough, the Patriots have had arguably one of the best defenses in the NFL. Opposing quarterbacks have a 73.4 rating there since 2009, which is the ninth-lowest of any stadium. 

    In true road games, it's quite the opposite. Opposing quarterbacks are averaging 278.3 yards and a 103.9 rating, the third-highest in the NFL, putting the Patriots behind both the Oakland Raiders and Detroit Lions.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    Eh no..... are you kidding me?
    Posted by pochen23


    Is this supposed to be sarcastic?  Thomas Jones is a hard running back, the kind Charlie Weis likes and Jamaal Charles is explosive, WR Bowe has shown promise as a possession guy with one 1000 yard season under his belt in 4 years but like Charles... can't stay healthy, if he can he'll be decent. 

    Beyond that I don't see much else because if you want to judge talent on a team, start upfront; their O line is swiss cheese and gave up 45 sacks last season...  The only reason Cassall isn't dead already is that Weis can get the ball out of the pocket or roll him out of the pocket. 

    It's funny one year removed from 4-12 season and a couple of new coordinators later and the Chief's offense is being termed "explosive" or talented... this isn't basketball where one player can put you over the top, with a 53 man roster coaching is actually important and coordinators can make a career out of making something out of nothing.  You may want to ask yourself, would the Chiefs be 3-0 without Weis?  I doubt it...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Ah-ha!  Wozzy has been unmasked:




    Tongue out

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    Ah-ha!  Wozzy has been unmasked:
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    If I were Charlie I would post my fist full of rings for you to look at...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    Nice article on ESPNBoston that lends credibility to an argument Killa made earlier about pinning the blame on Brady in the Jets game.  Interesting read: Jeremy Lundblad of ESPN Stats and Information  dug up some troubling numbers on the Patriots' woes on the road , where they are 2-7 since the start of last season (which counts a win in London).  Here is a sampling:  * Blame it on Brady?:  In his past eight true road games, Tom Brady has a 50.8 passer rating in the second half compared to a 101.6 passer rating in the first half. The numbers get downright ugly in the fourth quarter, when Brady has a 29.3 passer rating courtesy of one touchdown and five interceptions. Quite simply, that makes Brady the worst quarterback in the NFL on the road in the fourth quarter since 2009. Not rookies Mark Sanchez (29.7) or Matthew Stafford (33.4). Not even quarterbacks who lost their jobs, such as Derek Anderson (33.4) and Kerry Collins (42.2). No one has been worse than Brady.  * The defense has been just plain bad on the road.  In three of those seven true road losses, the Patriots allowed 21 points in a single quarter. Overall, they are allowing 25.4 points per game on the road since 2009, the seventh-worst average in the NFL. By contrast, the Brady-led offense is putting up a middle-of-the-pack 19.5 points.  Here again, the contrast with home performance is stark, particularly with regard to the much-maligned pass defense. While holding opponents to 10 fewer points on average, the Patriots have twice as many interceptions at home.  In fact, when in Foxborough, the Patriots have had arguably one of the best defenses in the NFL. Opposing quarterbacks have a 73.4 rating there since 2009, which is the ninth-lowest of any stadium.  In true road games, it's quite the opposite. Opposing quarterbacks are averaging 278.3 yards and a 103.9 rating, the third-highest in the NFL, putting the Patriots behind both the Oakland Raiders and Detroit Lions.
    Posted by carawaydj


    DJ, I think its funny you say this article lends credibility to the argument that the 2nd half woes are Brady's fault. I think this article and statistics which you have stated proves my entire theory. As you so eloquently put it in an earlier post, this article states the symptoms of the problem and not the problem itself.

    Even with Brady's abysmal 2009 road record he has the 3rd highest winning road %in NFL history EGADS. 3rd highest all time. I would make the claim that QBs NEVER become "UN-CLUTCH" They lose the physical abilities. Their knees go, they need elbow surgeries, shoulder repairs.  They don't lose their minds, They don't lose ability to reads a defense, but they do lose integral pieces of success(OC's DC's) or in our case both. Brady and the Pats are the #1 scoring offense in the league right now, as they were top- 5 last year. When a team and QB this capable play as bad as they did in the 2nd half of the Jets game then I would say the team as a whole is either not performing or not being put in position to succeed by its coaching staff. Inexcusable to smoke the best D in the league for 188 yards and 2 tds in their house and then not be able to get a 1st down in the 2nd half. In my eyes that means the other teams coaches put them in a position to stop us from doing what we were doing. Our coaches failed to realize or react in time and it cost us a victory. I would also go out on a limb and say if Brady still had Charlie Weiss as Peyton Manning has Moore they would have continued their chemistry and maintained dominance, even with a legitimate year of rebuilding. Even with Brady only a year removed from the worst injury a QB can have. I say if we had Weiss last year we scrap out at least 2 more wins. We get better production from the run game with creativity to make up the difference for lack of talent. Weiss did it with Antwoine Smith, with Mike Cloud, with JR Redmond. He could have done it with Maroney, Faulk and Morris. Aiken, Watson and Edelman. Lack of offensive ingenuity is what hurt us last year the most with Bradys right knee a close 2nd. This year we know that one of these two things has improved and I hope by seasons end they both have. Sorry about the rant, I seemed to have stopped breathing the entire time I wrote this post.
     
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