O`Brian: Killing the Offense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    I think its the hair
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : DJ, I think its funny you say this article lends credibility to the argument that the 2nd half woes are Brady's fault. I think this article and statistics which you have stated proves my entire theory. As you so eloquently put it in an earlier post, this article states the symptoms of the problem and not the problem itself...
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I still think you and I are correct for the most part, but the absolutely pathetic stats make it hard to pin 100% of the blame on the OC.  Take for instance the terrible 4th qtr stats on the road.  Lack of adjustment by the OC to the defenses halftime adjustments certainly explains a 2nd half dropoff, but it does not explain the difference between the 3rd and 4th quarter.  As the article points out, the 4th qtr stats are really bad.  Us fans have observed what appears to be Brady locking in on Moss in the latter part of some games.  A good number of his turnovers in the 4th qtr have come on throws to Moss.  

    I have strong opinions, but I am not afraid to alter my opinion or do a complete 180 if I see evidence that does not support my opinion.  I do still believe that the OC's lack of adjustments are mostly responsible for our 2nd half woes.  However, I also now believe Brady has contributed to the woes himself.  It's not really hard to imagine a scenario where the offense struggles in the 2nd half, this allows the other team to get ahead, and this causes Brady to take risks...risks that he used to take and make in his "clutch" days.

    Of course, why only on the road?  You would think that problems of this nature would manifest themselves even at home.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : I still think you and I are correct for the most part, but the absolutely pathetic stats make it hard to pin 100% of the blame on the OC.  Take for instance the terrible 4th qtr stats on the road.  Lack of adjustment by the OC to the defenses halftime adjustments certainly explains a 2nd half dropoff, but it does not explain the difference between the 3rd and 4th quarter.  As the article points out, the 4th qtr stats are really bad.  Us fans have observed what appears to be Brady locking in on Moss in the latter part of some games.  A good number of his turnovers in the 4th qtr have come on throws to Moss.   I have strong opinions, but I am not afraid to alter my opinion or do a complete 180 if I see evidence that does not support my opinion.  I do still believe that the OC's lack of adjustments are mostly responsible for our 2nd half woes.  However, I also now believe Brady has contributed to the woes himself.  It's not really hard to imagine a scenario where the offense struggles in the 2nd half, this allows the other team to get ahead, and this causes Brady to take risks...risks that he used to take and make in his "clutch" days. Of course, why only on the road?  You would think that problems of this nature would manifest themselves even at home.
    Posted by carawaydj


    I believe you're both right to some degree, right now Brady is surrounded by "yes men" more than a coaches...  I don't doubt that even when he was a rook Tommy had to be told to run the ball more often and stick to the game plan.  It's the nature of competitors to want to do it all on their own.  I'm not saying O'Brien is hopeless or can't improve but this is a win now league, coaches don't count against the cap so why not hire Weis back when he was available or even go into the college ranks, find someone familiar with the Weis/Erhardt/Perkins Offensive system and get back to Patriot football. 

    High flying trends be damned, if the Giants can beat us in 07' and win a ring with power running and the Steelers continue it this season like they've always done than why not us... just because we have an All Pro QB it doesn't mean we should make him shoulder the load.  Back in the day even Jermaine Wiggens got balls thrown his way, now if your name isn't Moss or Welker you'll be lucky to see the field...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats-Cheat. Show Pats-Cheat's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    To All Patriot Fans:

    Since the Pats were caught cheating they have not won anything.

    It proves the point that the 3 superbowls they stole by 3 points are as tainted as Barry Bond's homerun record. The odd's makers give the home team a 3 point advantage, how much would you give a team who knows your defensive play calls.

    Tom Brady is a just above average QB who knew if there were a blitz, which way it was coming from and if a Defensive Back was coming. The QB position is alot harder when you have to earn it. He had 50 TD's the last year they cheated and it was the last year The Cheatriots dominated the East. Sounds alot like Barry Bond doesn't it?

    In a real football purist eyes the Cheatriots have no true Suberbowl Wins
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    49 offensive points?

    And what is up with the love for Weiss?  He's the reason we won our Super Bowls?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    That's exactly the point, without Weiss, they wouldn't be that good, but you can't say that Weiss would have the same effect if he was working on TB's offense. KC's offense isn't exactly garbage, they have talent in the skill position. Offense line isn't good, QB isn't good, but that's about it. You made it sound like they got Carnell Williams and Mike Williams as their two best offense players. Jamaal Charles, if not for stubborn coach, should be getting 20 touches a game. No, it is not like basketball, but a stud running back can usually make a big difference, look at CJ last year and tell me who else they have other than him and the Titans were a pretty respectable team. Not saying KC is all the sudden a 12-4 team, but to say Weiss did it with garbage is stretching it. I do think if we had Weiss, our offense would be 5 times better, but that's not really what we are talking about here.
    Posted by pochen23


    We're not KC, we're good if not great at every position except one... experienced coaching.  Not saying OBrien can't or won't improve.  Like someone else said, we improved the last two games mainly due to the fact we're RUNNING THE BALL and almost by default... midway through the Bill"s game we realized we were going to lose to the lowly Bills and OBrien finally got tough.

    Law Firm and WoodHead have been given opportunities in the 2nd half, that's the only thing different from previous games.  I just think its funny that I would have to explain to a pro coach (or at least some meatballs here) that with a substantial lead at halftime and a stable of backs one should come out in the second half, pound the rock and run the clock down.  This is something anyone skilled at John Madden Football can realize...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Oh sure, if Charlie Weiss were here he'd destroy the Ravens with bolts of lightning from his eyes, and balls of fire from his a**.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : 49 second half points - 21 vs. Buffalo, 35 vs. Miami. Weis was manifestly NOT the reason the Patriots won Superbowls - he was playing for overtime against the Rams and the Patriots lengthened theior passing attack against the Panthers because they had to, not because Weis was any good.  They won more IN SPITE OF WEIS than because of him.
    Posted by STP43FAN


    Remember when Tedy Bruschi picked off McNabb as the Eagles were trying to come back in the 4th quarter - what did the great Weiss offense do??? 3 and out.  After the Eagles scored to get within three???  3 and out
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : Remember when Tedy Bruschi picked off McNabb as the Eagles were trying to come back in the 4th quarter - what did the great Weiss offense do??? 3 and out .  After the Eagles scored to get within three???  3 and out . 
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Does anyone remember the outcome of every Super Bowl and AFC Championship that the Pats played in when Weis was here? 

    I'm not harping on Weis anymore, he's long gone, the issue at hand is how bad we've looked since... stop trying to defend an indefensible argument by cherry picking one incident in one game.  Vinitieri didn't become legend because our defense alone, it was a team effort, but I can certainly remember winning more Super Bowls than losing. 

    STP43FAN you try to rewrite history and everything you say flies in the face of football logic; you should probably stop.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Exactly, it was a team effort, and Weiss was part of that team.  He wasn't necessary or sufficient for those wins, he just worked well with the rest of the team and they got the victory. 

    Today, Weiss and those teams are gone, and we should show support for our new team and its up and coming offensive leader, Bill O'Brien. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    Co-Sign.

    I am tired of giving this guy a pass.  No more. Put up or shut up/find a new job in 2011.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1024us. Show m1024us's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    WOW!  I hate having the #1 offense in the NFL!  Get rid of the bum!


    You people are morons, get a life.  We have the best offense in the NFL and you want to get rid of the guy because the offense didn't execute a play properly!

    We must be the only team in the league that has some of the dumbest fans....and I thought that the Jests fans were bad.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1024us. Show m1024us's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to O`Brian: Killing the Offense : the playcalling, as well as the play of this offense is so offensive that i had to bring back an old thread. i believe that BO is wrecking this offense. it starts with him, and seems to have affected [infected?] tom brady as well. YES. san diego has a outstanding defense, but an excellent offense, which is what this offense is considerd to be, still should be able to make things happen. it starts from the top down, and bill o`brien is the top of this offense. 
    Posted by koft


    dumb.....
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    You do realize they leave a lot of points on the board, correct?

    Miami lost yesterday mostly because they blew two turnovers within Pitt's 20 and settled for FGs instead of getting even one TD.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1024us. Show m1024us's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:

    You do realize they leave a lot of points on the board, correct? Miami lost yesterday mostly because they blew two turnovers within Pitt's 20 and settled for FGs instead of getting even one TD.
    Posted by BBReigns


    Obviously everyone else in the league is too....because we lead the NFL in points scored per game.  Even after we just beat some of the best defenses in the NFL, and we still have the best O....


    try using some common sense before you over react.....

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    So, what about 16 sakcks allowed last year? Pretty good wasn't it? But, was that indicative of pass protection?

    How about stats don't show you the whole picture?

    You are claiming I am not using common sense when I clearly explain my opinion?

    Just like SD's #1 total offense and total defnese really isn't a reflection of the truth, NE's #1 scoring offense isn't either.

    The good/great Ds handle this team's spread.  That's a fact at this point. The more spread or predictable passing packages, the worse this  offense is.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1024us. Show m1024us's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    So, what about 16 sakcks allowed last year? Pretty good wasn't it? But, was that indicative of pass protection? How about stats don't show you the whole picture? You are claiming I am not using common sense when I clearly explain my opinion? Just like SD's #1 total offense and total defnese really isn't a reflection of the truth, NE's #1 scoring offense isn't either. The good/great Ds handle this team's spread.  That's a fact at this point. The more spread or predictable passing packages, the worse this  offense is.
    Posted by BBReigns


    Common sense....you are over reacting....

    not sure where your sack analysis is going....

    SD didn't have the best total offense...they had the best total yard offense, that hardly wins you games.....same with the Defense total yards...not a good stat to go by.....

    SD's numbers were slightly flawed because of the weak teams that they had played prior to playing NE....but NE has played some pretty good defenses and had scored more points than all their opponents give up on average except for the Jests and we missed their average by 2 points.

    So please use common sense....
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    My sack analysis from last year is way to show you stats can be misleading.

    16 sacks is great for an O Line, right?  Sure it is!

    But, how many times did Brady run for his life last year or throw the ball early?

    I am well aware SD's offense and defense is overrated. Their turnovers and bad STs hurts them on a weekly basis which is why NE getting 6 measly points on the fumbles was terrible.

    Just admit it: Bill O'Brien had a horrendous day yesterday.

    Period.

    Last year, his first year on the job, we expected some flaws.

    But, this is 2010 with a load of weapons, health and some guy named Tom Brady. No more excuses.

    Bill O'Brien has yet to put two successive complete games together on offense this year.

    That's a FACT.  Baltimore was probably his best game. Or Cincy.

    Miami? Nope. NY Jets? Nope. SD? Nope.






     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense : Don't lie to me, wozzy.  I'm not the one rewriting anything.  The issue at hand is the fact that Weis was nowhere close to as good as people have made him out to be. He is a buffoon - that is not an opinion, it is a fact, and shown by Belichick's refusal to even consider bringing him back; he was hired in KC out of desperation by Pioli. 
    Posted by STP43FAN


    What?

    Refusal to bring him back?  Maybe Weis just wanted a new challenge to build soemthiign from the bottom up because it's more rewarding?

    ANything he'd do here, short of being part of a 3/4 Dynasty again would be deemed a failure.

    It's like people expecting the Stones to write another Let It Bleed 20 years later in 1989. Not happening.

    My good god.

    Where do you get this stuff?  You're reasoning as to why Weis didn't come back here, and why he is a buffoon, is because BB didn't want him back?

    What on earth?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    In Response to Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense:
    Exactly, it was a team effort, and Weiss was part of that team.  He wasn't necessary or sufficient for those wins, he just worked well with the rest of the team and they got the victory.  Today, Weiss and those teams are gone, and we should show support for our new team and its up and coming offensive leader, Bill O'Brien. 
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Here is my support:

    1. I hope O'Brien realizes he needs to improve and I hope he will.
    2.  Weis did not have nearly the level of quality of personnel as O'Brien does here now.


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: O`Brian: Killing the Offense

    He does that 3 and out 2nd and 2, 3rd and 2 thing once a game.

    He did in Miami on the 1st drive which lead to a great start for MIami and their first TD because of great field position.

    Note the Buffalo TD and FGs in the first half.  Due to 3 and outs based off of mindbogglingly complex spread formation playcalls when it's 3rd and 1.

    Crappy punts, short fields, etc.

    Instead of just running another play, he switches out formations for the spread or deliberate and obvious pass formations.

    Why?

    Also, the team is ranked 24th going into Sunday's game in Time of Possession.  They were #1 last year. 
     
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