Ocho Cinco

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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    Fair enough...i'll buy that argument as well.  I really do hope he gets some passes thrown his way.  It can only open things up for other guys if he gets a couple under his belt.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    There have been so many Ocho threads throughout this season, that he's gonna break out that he su*ks and what have you.  Well, he isn't; going to break out in this game.  He hasn't been a factor all year and he won't be here.   like the guy but he has not shown up all year long, except for one TD.  Jeez...

    As far as not listening to Carson Palmer, why not?  He was the Q.B.on that team and I will guess that he would know where Ocho is supposed to be.  We PATS fans certainly KNOW that Brady and others are still telling Chad where to line up and its now SB time.  If he plays I HOPE he gets something done but based on the performance this year, I won't count on it.

    And yes, I read your posts, a myriad of them, saying how open he was in the regular season Giants game and that Brady did not throw to him..  Frankly that's meaningless to me.  He has under performed for the money and though BB may love the guy he is what? the fifth receiver? The Sisth? What? He's on the field for maybe three to five plays in an entire game? That should speak volumes to you.

     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco:
    I tend to agree Russ...i've seen him open.  But being open is not the same as running the route he's supposed to.  Carson Palmer used to say that about 85.  Ocho would complain that he was wide open and Palmer would tell him something like "yeah...but you weren't anywhere near where I thought you'd be..."
    Posted by Ytsejamer1


    +1

    Often overlooked.  The game is all about timing.  Most of the passes thrown are thrown to spots on the field where Brady expects someone to be based on coverages and where the defenders are.  This is also a frequent cause of interceptions; a receiver not being where he should of been.  Most of the passes a QB throws are released before the receiver is actually open, with an expectation that separation or body position will be there by the time the ball arrives. There is one place where QB's sit back there, wait until they see someone open, and then throw to the open guy.  It's called the nieghborhood park.  

    Watching the game on TV makes it look too simlistic.  All us fans see are an open guy, without any thought as to where he was supposed to be.  The camera often fails to show if the guy was open when the ball was released.

    As they also said on NFLN, this is a team that will play a WR at DB, a LB as a TE, an OL as a TE.  If BB thinks you will contribute, you WILL see the field.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco:
    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco : +1 Often overlooked.  The game is all about timing.  Most of the passes thrown are thrown to spots on the field where Brady expects someone to be based on coverages and where the defenders are.  This is also a frequent cause of interceptions; a receiver not being where he should of been.  Most of the passes a QB throws are released before  the receiver is actually open, with an expectation that separation or body position will be there by the time the ball arrives. There is one place where QB's sit back there, wait until they see someone open, and then throw to the open guy.  It's called the nieghborhood park.   Watching the game on TV makes it look too simlistic.  All us fans see are an open guy, without any thought as to where he was supposed to be.  The camera often fails to show if the guy was open when the ball was released . As they also said on NFLN, this is a team that will play a WR at DB, a LB as a TE, an OL as a TE.  If BB thinks you will contribute, you WILL see the field.
    Posted by carawaydj


    Exactly.  I'm sick of people showing screenshots of supposedley open receivers on every Brady interception (all 12 of them or so this season) and whining about why Brady makes such poor decisions. 
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    Russ, while I admit stats don't tell the whole story i would have to disagree with you here. I do think Brady had one of his best seasons in 06 with almost no help on offense, but to say he had a better year then is a giant reach on your part.


    20061631951661.83,5296.842462121187.9


    20111640161165.65,2358.573999124105.6


    In this case I believe the stats tell a significant portion of the story. For some reason our coaching staff doesn't want to use our run game as much as needed imo, but Brady has still taken a one dimensional offense and turned in one of the best seasons in NFL history.

    He threw 12 ints in 06 as well, he also fumbled ELEVEN TIMES.

    Our defense was also significantly better in 06 as we still had the core together, albeit no Rodney which was the difference in the Colts afc game imo.

    Anyway I couldn't read your post without responding. We agree on a few things here but once again you go over board with your whole Brady is at fault premise.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco:
    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco : Sadly, I may need to find the screen shots of the games from November where he was wide open and Brady was forcing balls and tossing INTs when he WAS open. I still cringe at Ocho waiiting on Brady's ball behind all world CB, Corey Webster. Corey Webster plays for the Giants.  He was torched on that play. Come on, Tom, have your best game of the year and stop making excuses.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    I wonder if it had anything to do with the tendonitis he was dealing with?  I think he was wearing that brace around his forearm that game.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco:
    I should have prefaced it by saying a better year consider what he had to work with. Statistically, OF COURSE, 2011 is better than 2006. By comparison, his talent on this team is literally 60% better than the talent on that team. That's the point, which I feel is more of a crutch. That actually made him spread it around more than he does now. It's so true. 2007 spoiled him and he's been chasing that ever since.  Same deal with why we made fun of Gomer. For the love of of God, please let's just see the Brady who believe in his favorite target was the open one.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    I would say 2007 spoiled "them" as in coaching staff on down. BB wants more passing plays, we heard him say it on a Football Life. We went with a un-drafted rb for the last 2 years with another un-drafted rb as the 3rd down guy. Running the ball is no longer important to this coaching staff.

    Everything I have ever heard Brady say tells me he is as grounded as any player I have ever seen. It makes him stand out imo above the rest. I don't blame him for running the offense that his coaches tell him too and doing it to the best of his ability, which is better then most QBs ever.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco:
    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco : Honenstly, dude. If you go back and watch Brady's 2006 season with Reche Caldwell as his top option Brady was a better QB then vs.s now. I was about to throw my tv out the window in the Jets II game when he was basically picked 3 times in the first half and was just throwing wildly. We even saw it with passes to Welker, Branch, etc, etc.  That's an excuse for a QB who got really spoiled in 2007, lost what the 2007 offense was in 2009, got help in 2010 and then tried to play like 2007 again, pretending he really only needed 2 options this year (Welker and Gronk). If it's about timing, which some of the offense is, Brady needs to make better reads and throws in man coverages. Period. Once teams used the blueprint (man coerage, drop 7, rush 4), Brady thinks he can still really only have to look down the middle. He best not do that on Sunday.
    Posted by RustyGriswold

    We agree one one thing for sure.  I have maintained that 2006 is Brady's best year ever at QB.  Don't care about stats.  Brady did so much with so little that year.

    When picks are thrown, us fans don't always know if it is on the QB, or on the WR.  Sometimes it's obvious, and other times it's not.  Nothing short of being in the team meeting reviewing the game will tell you that.

     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    I do hope Ocho has a good day in the SB though.  I like him.  I thought his antics kept the game fun.  He hasn't forgotten that this is just a game, and has kept himself in check this year.  Hope he makes a big TD catch.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    While I'm critical of Brady at times and he has struggled in a few games this year I do think he's a better QB now. While I agree about the talent level on OFFENSE you also have to consider the talent level on defense. Brady has had to carry this team on his back at times. No disrespect to the D that has stepped up nicely to date. We can be critical of Brady just like I'm sure he is critical of himself. From my mind more of the blame falls on Obrien and the lack of a balanced attack. I expect a SOLID performance by Brady and the defense and a 4th ring delivered. He will still go down as THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME...
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Ocho Cinco:
    Need him now more than ever? Can he have a JD Drew AL Championship type of moment. Im not sure if Gronk should play in anything other than Red Zone packages. I also thought BB doesnt play players unless they practice. Its still early, but a lot of reports have Gronk not playing. Turf. Father's recent death. Weak secondary. First Super Bowl. Full Season under the system...what more does this guy need as motivation? Im not expecting 10 catches and 200 yards. Maybe something like 3 Recs for 43 yards and 1 TD? If a guy named Tyree could put up that stat line, i would hope our 85 can too....(yes, Tyree was also 85)
    Posted by dapats1281


         Never has a guy whose done so little gotten so much media attention. My fellow Pats fans, we've been waiting all year for this guy to contribute...and he's done zilch, zero, nada. It's desperation to think that it's remotely possible for him to have a banner day in the SB. All this talk about him not being able to learn the system is BS. His failure to produce as a Patriot was due to diminished skills...pure and simple.    

         Guys, the Patriots can and will beat the Giants, with or without Ocho, if:
     
    1.) their defense steps up, the way it has the past two outings;

    2.) their OL dominates; and

    3.) Brady and the boys play turnover free football.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Re: Ocho Cinco:
    While I'm critical of Brady at times and he has struggled in a few games this year I do think he's a better QB now. While I agree about the talent level on OFFENSE you also have to consider the talent level on defense. Brady has had to carry this team on his back at times. No disrespect to the D that has stepped up nicely to date. We can be critical of Brady just like I'm sure he is critical of himself. From my mind more of the blame falls on Obrien and the lack of a balanced attack. I expect a SOLID performance by Brady and the defense and a 4th ring delivered. He will still go down as THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME...
    Posted by jam757


    +1 Good Post.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    Funny thing is if Ocho has a Superbowl TD, all will be forgiven...
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    You might see the madness of Ocho Cinco in this game when he is flying for the ball.
    I love to see him dance in the endzone.
     
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    Re: Ocho Cinco

    In Response to Ocho Cinco:
    Need him now more than ever? Can he have a JD Drew AL Championship type of moment. Im not sure if Gronk should play in anything other than Red Zone packages. I also thought BB doesnt play players unless they practice. Its still early, but a lot of reports have Gronk not playing. Turf. Father's recent death. Weak secondary. First Super Bowl. Full Season under the system...what more does this guy need as motivation? Im not expecting 10 catches and 200 yards. Maybe something like 3 Recs for 43 yards and 1 TD? If a guy named Tyree could put up that stat line, i would hope our 85 can too....(yes, Tyree was also 85)
    Posted by dapats1281


    With u brah!  Ocho can do if given this opportunity; with Gronk likely out/ineffective do believe that TB will have to diversify and look to Ocho on some occasions!
     
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